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Just use the helmet like Raetomonn was going to 
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Dec 17, 2020 03:57
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:
 There it is, everyone, the best line in the game, and the reason it was so important to bring Eb along. Also, just as an aside, the Fatebinder has not technically violated Kyros' laws, because they only apply to Fatebinders when Tunon decides they do, by his own implication. Chasing a lawbreaker like Raetommon into the Oldwalls in order to punish him is, in most cases, completely legal. Otherwise anyone could escape justice just by hiding in an Oldwall.
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Dec 17, 2020 04:09
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: I've heard he gets nothing but complaints. In fact, most people ask for their rings back.
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Huh, I had only very minor trouble with this bossfight in rebel playthrough (so this was the first location). The main Havoc just wasn't doing real AoE damage, so I could keep healing its target up, while cleaning out the ads (which I think spawn when you damage the Havoc enough, so you can pace them that way). This was helped by the fact that I could alpha a lesser bane with 4 (sometimes just 3) range spells, so they didn't get to do much. e: this might be because of the level scaling, which is weird in this game (there is soft level scaling that completely drops of at level 16 or so). Your Havoc is definitely stronger than mine, but in theory you should have more skills to deal with it  -------------------------------------- I don't see this supported in the game though quote:It's not clear whether the Bane themselves are artificial, but they are harnessable by people who have ideas clearly outside of the Kyros-permitted ecosystem. We can extrapolate from our reading that the Bane represent the threat of new ideas and/or cognitive dissonance - clearly, the ancients built these big towers and were able to use the Bane - ... I can't think of a single hint that they were using the Bane, as opposed to dealing with them as pests. While gameplay wise, Bane traps are a way to throw banes at the player, text wise, they are a trap to keep the bane away, and stop them from wrecking stuff. In some places you will find pre-broken bane traps, and get a comment on how there must've been too many banes, and the traps were overwhelmed... Later in the game, you will also find out that you brought in a huge bane infestation when you (late game spoilers) called in your own edict 
Xarn fucked around with this message at 10:37 on Dec 17, 2020 |
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Dec 17, 2020 10:32
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:
Jesus Christ Eb, Cleo's an agent of the court! You can't just murder a man in front of her like that!
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Dec 17, 2020 10:58
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:
Are these screenshots misplaced?
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Dec 17, 2020 15:06
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Your take on the Bane is weird, it seemed like a pretty simple analogue to Nature and man's hubris in attempting to control it. I don't remember any weird lore around them (at least in the base game), just these things that are drawn to magic and magic users.
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Dec 17, 2020 16:19
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Victis posted:Your take on the Bane is weird, it seemed like a pretty simple analogue to Nature and man's hubris in attempting to control it. I don't remember any weird lore around them (at least in the base game), just these things that are drawn to magic and magic users. Given that they show up anywhere with heavy concentrations of magic (like anywhere an Edict has been used), it feels mostly like they're meant to represent pollution, as was brought up earlier. That said, they also represent spooky fantasy magic monsters, because Tyranny is a video game first and foremost. The DLC does a lot to confuse what the gently caress they're supposed to be about, because the DLC leans much harder on "wow cool robot" and drops the ball on the political allegory.
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Dec 17, 2020 16:40
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Victis posted:Your take on the Bane is weird, it seemed like a pretty simple analogue to Nature and man's hubris in attempting to control it. I don't remember any weird lore around them (at least in the base game), just these things that are drawn to magic and magic users. Magic and magic users are this game's analogy for political power and the Bane show up in areas pertaining to forbidden knowledge of a world without Kyros (Oldwalls, Vellum Citadel).
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Dec 17, 2020 19:01
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:Magic and magic users are this game's analogy for political power and the Bane show up in areas pertaining to forbidden knowledge of a world without Kyros (Oldwalls, Vellum Citadel). Those areas are also areas of heavy magic irradiation (the Vellum Citadel was hit by an Edict and a ton of magical poo poo was blown up at the same time, so it's even more heavily irradiated than the rest of the Tiers). Turns out the writers aren't consistent about what magic is an analog for. Sometimes it's political power, sometimes it's the various things in the modern world that create pollution, sometimes it's just magic, depending on the scene.
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Dec 17, 2020 21:04
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EclecticTastes posted:Those areas are also areas of heavy magic irradiation (the Vellum Citadel was hit by an Edict and a ton of magical poo poo was blown up at the same time, so it's even more heavily irradiated than the rest of the Tiers). Magical "radiation" isn't really a thing in this setting though? Unless you're inferring this from it being a thing in other contemporary fantasy settings?
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Dec 18, 2020 00:46
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drkeiscool posted:Magical "radiation" isn't really a thing in this setting though? Unless you're inferring this from it being a thing in other contemporary fantasy settings? It's explicitly stated that Edicts produce lingering magic power in places where they're used (even after being broken), that exposure to powerful magic like Edicts has obvious effects on people, that the Oldwalls are very much suffused with magic that has various effects, and that such magical residue attracts the Bane. Like, its existence has to often be inferred from its effects, but it's very much present in the setting.
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Dec 18, 2020 02:29
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And then the game shows us Cleo looking the exact same after dealing with two Edicts, a number implied to be extraordinarily dangerous. Yes, there are mentions in missives to people dying after pronouncing Edicts, but the game shows Cleopatra absorbing all the Edicts and leaving no lasting effects whatsoever. The Edict of Execution we declare at the beginning of the game doesn't even leave any evidence it existed, the fire goes out at the Vellum Citadel when the Edict is gone, et cetera. The Edicts we see are ongoing effects, sure, but they evaporate into nothingness once their goal is achieved. It's the opposite of nuking Hiroshima and then poisoning the area by accident - the ongoing devastation is the point, and it cleans up nicely whenever Kyros' ex-girlfriend returns the manga collection or whatever the conditions are. As far as the Oldwalls go, you can run around them all game and nobody even brings up the idea that the residual magic is harmful. The Bane are there and are the stated reason not to go into the Oldwalls, but the danger as presented by the characters is that they are evil monsters that will murder you instead of you being mutated or getting cancer or whatever. Unlike actual radiation you can just kill the monsters and go on your merry way with no lasting effects. The most knowledgeable characters like Lantry and Eb sure don't bother to tell us about Oldwalls being background radiation, and when we do encounter it it's in the context of the Spires, which do mention magical channels, but also attract highly educated volunteers looking for a safe environment to do forging or whatever. It's highly unlikely that all of these Sages and Forge-Bound would be showing up unprotected if the Oldwalls and Spires were radiating pollution everywhere. All this said - this is just intepretation. If you can find textual evidence to back it up, it's a valid take. It's certainly plausible the authors intended their Bronze Age fantasy empire to comment on industrial pollution, but it doesn't jive with Raetommon claiming to hear the Bane speak or the Bronze Brotherhood's proclivity to worship them. However, every time we go for forbidden knowledge or a revelation we need to overcome the Bane. To get the forbidden historical knowledge of a world without Kyros, we need to overcome the Bane in the Vellum Citadel. To come to the realization Kyros' laws are not infallible and are actually screwing the Empire over, we need to overcome the Bane in the Oldwalls. The Bane explicitly go after magic, which has been repeatedly shown to be synonymous with power and privilege from laws like Magician's Folly to the Archons - hence my interpretation that the Bane represent an internal struggle with forbidden or dangerous ideas that would threaten the social order. Raetommon became obsessed with them and destroyed himself. We need to overcome them to chart a path forward through Kyros' ideology while not succumbing to the temptation to destroy ourselves by espousing forbidden ideas too openly, developing a messiah complex like Raetommon, or being destroyed by the cognitive dissonance. That's my take, if you can find evidence against it, go nuts!
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Dec 18, 2020 03:29
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Marie Curie was the most educated woman of her hemisphere but the general knowledge wasn't there and they had to line her tomb with lead also your protag is Special, this is an rpg
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Dec 18, 2020 03:30
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:
I don't think the Bane would be much of an allegory if they literally behaved exactly like a specific subset of the thing people are suggesting they represent, and suggesting that they should for that reading to be valid seems like it's missing the point? Otherwise I'd have to ask what sort of political power allows you to levitate someone by the light of the moon while hurling razor sharp chunks of ice at them. Or how a having a thought experiment about democracy could physically rip your arm off on its own. The evidence for the "bane are lingering environmental devastation from the past" reading is :they're floating gas clouds that kill you just for being in the wrong place and existing, and also kill everyone in an area if their special storage containment is breached, and they're mostly only found in abandoned places built by people who aren't around anymore and self-evidently didn't find a way to long term fix the problem. Raetommon claims he can hear them talking to him because he's loving nuts, and the Bronze Brotherhood just like to roll coal. paragon1 fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Dec 18, 2020 |
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Dec 18, 2020 04:14
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What if the Bronze Brotherhood are the boys from Mad Max?
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Dec 18, 2020 12:45
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:And then the game shows us Cleo looking the exact same after dealing with two Edicts, a number implied to be extraordinarily dangerous. Yes, there are mentions in missives to people dying after pronouncing Edicts, but the game shows Cleopatra absorbing all the Edicts and leaving no lasting effects whatsoever. The Edict of Execution we declare at the beginning of the game doesn't even leave any evidence it existed, the fire goes out at the Vellum Citadel when the Edict is gone, et cetera. The Edicts we see are ongoing effects, sure, but they evaporate into nothingness once their goal is achieved. It's the opposite of nuking Hiroshima and then poisoning the area by accident - the ongoing devastation is the point, and it cleans up nicely whenever Kyros' ex-girlfriend returns the manga collection or whatever the conditions are. The text and circumstances in-game directly contradict your theory. Bane by all evidence have been around before Kyros, exist in the present, and continue to react to magic shenanigans during the course of the game. The Oldwall civ had mitigations to lock them away or otherwise deal with them, but the idea that they represent new ideas somehow is backwards. They are a primeval or at least very ancient force of nature to be dealt with, or (foolishly) captured/controlled. Nature worship isn't anything new, and even if you worship it nature will still kill you. Victis fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Dec 18, 2020 |
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Dec 18, 2020 23:41
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Bonus Update: The BaneVictis posted:The text and circumstances in-game directly contradict your theory. Bane by all evidence have been around before Kyros, exist in the present, and continue to react to magic shenanigans during the course of the game. The Oldwall civ had mitigations to lock them away or otherwise deal with them, but the idea that they represent new ideas somehow is backwards. They are a primeval or at least very ancient force of nature to be dealt with, or (foolishly) captured/controlled. Nature worship isn't anything new, and even if you worship it nature will still kill you. Ok, I have to directly respond to this. The Bane don't represent nature, as they're creatures of magic that do Arcane damage and cast spells like "Bolt of Corruption". They are wacky ethereal monsters that look completely unnatural, similarly to how the most powerful practictioners of magic look like this:    The game establishes that practicing magic for a really long time makes you look inhuman. Nerat is a sickly green flame with obviously worked stone masks, Tunon is a literal walking shadow (something mythology tends to portray as unnatural) with a worked mask, and Graven Ashe has glowy blue eyes and whatever the hell that orb is. However, reading the rest of the post - that I asserted the Bane are new ideas and thus my theory is invalidated because the Bane predate Kyros - makes me suspect that I haven't done a very good job communicating my theory to the thread. The Bane aren't so much new ideas so much as a different context free from Kyrosian brainwashing. I'm not sure I got that across as well as I could have judging from the quoted post. The Memory Hole We run into the concept of forbidden knowledge fairly early in the game when Kyros commands the Vellum Citadel be destroyed, and the game continues to reinforce this theme. Earlier in the game posted:
The knowledge of the Vellum Citadel includes not just magic but historical records untainted by the censorship of Kyros. We see this again chatting with the local Fatebinders. Chatting with Calio posted:
There's a running theme here, what if we ask Calio for legends?  If you didn't see the theme yet, Calio will bluntly spell it out for you.  The entire point is to create a mindset among the faithful that Kyros' way is the only way and that a society that is not led by Kyros is damned to war, superstition, and collapse.  Look how Nunoval describes it, Kyros "brings reason" to the land. We've seen this before. 1984 posted:The Party said that Oceania had never been in alliance with Eurasia. He, Winston Smith, knew that Oceania had been in alliance with Eurasia as short a time as four years ago. But where did that knowledge exist? Only in his own consciousness, which in any case must soon be annihilated. And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed--if all records told the same tale--then the lie passed into history and became truth. 'Who controls the past,' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.' And yet the past, though of its nature alterable, never had been altered. Whatever was true now was true from everlasting to everlasting. It was quite simple. All that was needed was an unending series of victories over your own memory. 'Reality control', they called it: in Newspeak, 'doublethink'. This is of course so we can push the dogma that Kyros brings peace and prosperity to all with no real way to challenge it. Blatantly Untrue poo poo Tunon Said Earlier posted:
This scenario should be familiar - Kyros is going out of her way to eradicate any sort of cultural or intellectual context that will let you change Kyros' laws as unjust or the legitimacy of Kyros to rule. It's straight out of 1984 where we have always been at war with Eastasia. The harvest has always been controlled by Kyros, who brings prosperity, but blights your crops...but has you share so is good. Kyros! An Outside Context Problem, or, the Trouble with Power The game has made it quite clear that Kyros' laws are designed to maintain the existing power structure over everything else. Kyros is infallible and may not be invoked lightly. Wizards have more privileges than you, and Archons have privileges above that. The socioeconomic class structures are based around who has magic and who doesn't, and attempts to gain more power are crushed ruthlessly via Bleden Mark or some application of the law. What the game doesn't explicitly call out is that the powerful have more context to see the entire system and need to somehow balance the evidence of their eyes and ears with the ideology the system is supposedly based on - whether that's becoming a cynic like Bleden Mark, a madman like Nerat, or just blinding yourself with your own ideology like Tunon. This is initially not a problem for the Fatebinder at the beginning of the game - this is an abnormal situation based on Kyros' laws, but we're true believers in Kyros the Overlord or we wouldn't have made it out of Tunon's training.  Note that the very first option is to repeat Kyros' pap about prosperity. The game makes it clear to the player in Act 1 that Kyros' laws don't work and that the feud between the Chorus and the Disfavored is very much a feature that makes a lie of Kyros' peace - but the player is NOT Cleopatra! Due to the limitations of modern gaming, we have a very narrow set of replies to draw on based on what Cleopatra is thinking, and most of the replies in Act 1 reflect that Cleopatra is a capable servant of empire raised on a diet of how great Kyros is, and our ultimate rationalization for the choices we make is that it's ultimately what Kyros wanted us to do. Tunon approves! Notice that, despite taking a Spire, there are no Bane in act 1. They don't appear because our actions aren't particularly challenging to a Kyrosian - we are carrying out the will of Kyros as told to us by her Edict, and we don't actually have the opportunity to reflect whether or not the system is broken. Ashe and Nerat are Bad Archons and if they'd just done what Kyros said to do we wouldn't be in this mess! Cleopatra defends herself posted:
It's only when we receive our first instruction from Bleden Mark - to go to the Vellum Citadel and retrieve the forbidden Silent Archive - that the Bane begin to appear. As Cleopatra acquires power - most easily represented in the Spires - we, the players, and Cleopatra both get a bigger picture of what the empire looks like and how it actually functions. One of the running themes from Act 2 is that Kyros' laws don't just fail the empire in exceptional circumstances like the Vendrien Guard revolt or Raetommon's Clown Show, but that the laws don't work very well in day to day life either - see Essa attempting to commit suicide by Fatebinder. Of course, the higher ups on some level either realize this or have found some way to rationalize it subconsciously.  Tunon's coping strategy is to delude himself that he provides justice for everyone, while Bleden Mark retreats into cynicism and sends us after the forbidden Silent Archive, and this is the first instance in the game where the laws of Kyros actively start to screw us. We need the power that the Silent Archive gives, but the Silent Archive is forbidden by Kyros. This is breaking the law! Worse, the Silent Archive - and the "heretical" knowledge of the Vellum Citadel - provides us with information outside the boundaries laid by Kyros! Hence the Bane. The Bane don't represent new ideas as much as the contextual knowledge of the past needed to create these ideas. Each encounter with the Bane gates off some sort of knowledge or experience that would change the worldview of Cleopatra and provide new context free of Kyros' conditioning and "reality control", as Orwell would put it. Bleden Mark, on the Archive posted:
Per Lantry, the Sages are historians whose guidance was highly valued by the rulers of the Tiers due to - at least in part - their vast historical knowledge. The Bane need to be overcome in some way to reach this context, because they're the unwelcome intrusion of ideas into the wonderful indoctrination of Kyros. Cognitive dissonance, if you will. 1984 posted:In a lucid moment Winston found that he was shouting with the others and kicking his heel violently against the rung of his chair. The horrible thing about the Two Minutes Hate was not that one was obliged toact a part, but, on the contrary, that it was impossible to avoid joining in. Within thirty seconds any pretence was always unnecessary. A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge-hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one's will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic. And yet the rage that one felt was an abstract, undirected emotion which could be switched from one object to another like the flame of a blowlamp. Thus, at one moment Winston's hatred was not turned against Goldstein at all, but, on the contrary, against Big Brother, the Party, and the Thought Police; and at such moments his heart went out to the lonely, derided heretic on the screen, sole guardian of truth and sanity in a world of lies. And yet the very next instant he was at one with the people about him, and all that was said of Goldstein seemed to him to be true. At those moments his secret loathing of Big Brother changed into adoration, and Big Brother seemed to tower up, an invincible, fearless protector, standing like a rock against the hordes of Asia, and Goldstein, in spite of his isolation, his helplessness, and the doubt that hung about his very existence, seemed like some sinister enchanter, capable by the mere power of his voice of wrecking the structure of civilization. This is of course the allegorical danger of the Bane - that you start to realize the truth and destroy yourself like Winston Smith acting against the system, or you realize that the system has turned you into a monster. THAT is why the Bane are attracted to magic, because magic is political power and the higher you rise in the Kyrosian system the closer you come to the truth that this system does not work and you are a bad person for enforcing these terrible rules. If we look at our core four Archons - Graven Ashe, the Voices of Nerat, Tunon, and Bleden Mark - they all have some way of burying this revelation. Graven Ashe tells himself he's doing it for his men and prides himself on his honor. Nerat knows the rules are a loving joke and treats it as a game to play - remember how we found the Scarlet Chorus at the Citadel? - so he can get back to torturing and murdering people. Tunon hides under his metaphorical security blanket of telling himself he's doing it for the greater good, and Mark just hides behind cynicism while acknowledging he's killed people who didn't deserve it.  We can't avoid this confrontation, because ultimately we're going to need to learn the historical knowledge hidden in the Archive to have a chance at surviving the wrath of Ashe and Nerat. With Raetommon it's even worse. Before we were breaking the law to ensure our own survival, now we are confronted with a situation where following Kyros' laws actively hurts not just us but the empire. We have to crush Raetommon's insurrection, but we can't go into the Oldwalls because that's forbidden. If we don't follow Raetommon into the Oldwalls his rebellion continues and the Brotherhood can use the law against the Kyrosians by just hiding there - proving that Kyros is in fact fallible for failing to foresee this! One simple trick to not get caught! Kyros HATES him! posted:
The other revelation we learn is that despite being sworn to Tunon, the Forge-Bound break the Oldwalls laws on the down-low all the time, proving that not even the people who claim to respect the law actually uphold it in practice. That's why the boss of the section isn't Raetommon, but a Bane Havoc - it represents Cleopatra's attempts to come to terms with this new information that's shattering her worldview. The confrontation with the Big Bane at the end of the Oldwalls is Cleopatra trying to square everything she's been taught by Tunon and Kyros with her recent experience that the laws don't work. Kyros' Peace is a big lie, not even the supposed agents of the law respect the law - and the only way to save the law is to disobey the law thought completely infallible. That's what I meant when I invoked new ideas and historical information - the Bane represent a context switch of new information that might break Cleo out of her Kyros induced indoctrination and could lead to dangerous ideas like "hey the Tiersmen didn't worship their kings as gods and had free markets" or the classic "Down with Big Brother", or just straight up destroy Cleo as she realizes what a terrible person she is. The Bane show up when we receive massive shocks to our Kyrosian indoctrination, and they will continue to appear as the Fatebinder sees more and more of the cracks in the system. Overcoming this dissonance - even if it is just subconscious rationalization bullshit - is critical for Cleopatra's path to power. The Bane aren't new. They just metaphorically encourage new thought. Anyway, that's my interpretation of the Bane, and I hope I've been able to explain it in a way that makes sense and isn't just random babbling.
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Dec 19, 2020 04:58
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: I'm no astrologist, but I have the basics. There are the stars, which seem set in the firmament to the eye, yet shift with the seasons. They serve as a constant source of superstition among those who have yet to come under the Overlord's rule. They speak of the constellations as ascended Archons and mythic monsters. She grins. All very illegal. The Overlord has dictated the proper names for the asterisms and the correct method in which to interpret their movements.
: We can hole out and no one knows we're here! You're the first one I've seen in here who wasn't part of the Brotherhood.
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That was a good TED talk.
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Dec 19, 2020 06:43
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Your interpretation starts to fall apart at the point where it's explicitly permitted for a Fatebinder to enter the Oldwalls in pursuit of someone else that entered the Oldwalls, or in fact violate any law that gets in the way of enforcing the laws on everyone else. But, more importantly, your theory involves a great many leaps in logic and some pretty liberal interpretations of the text, when the much simper allegory is explained by a single fact stated pretty much the first time the Bane are ever mentioned. The Bane are attracted to magic. Powerful magic attracts the Bane. The only places where you see Bane away from the Oldwalls are in places where powerful magic happened, most notably the Burning Library, where the magic of an Edict was layered with powerful preservation magic powered by an artifact (on top of whatever magic was released through the destruction of most of the library's collection). The Bane represent pollution, nuclear fallout, or other harmful byproducts of recklessly abusing the planet. This becomes even more blatant in the DLC, though other parts of the DLC also muddy it up by mixing it with Deep Fantasy Worldbuilding because Tyranny isn't just a polemic, it's also a fantasy story that's trying to set up a world and mysteries therein for potential sequels.
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Dec 19, 2020 06:46
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EclecticTastes posted:Your interpretation starts to fall apart at the point where it's explicitly permitted for a Fatebinder to enter the Oldwalls in pursuit of someone else that entered the Oldwalls, or in fact violate any law that gets in the way of enforcing the laws on everyone else. You're referring to Tunon's dialogue I skipped in the big Tunon chat? I just loaded a save to check. Tunon explicitly prefaces that with "the laws apply to you" and warns you that if you break the laws, while there is some leeway, you will have to answer to Tunon and he's not going easy on you if you make the wrong call. If we ask about the Oldwalls, he explicitly warns us to mind that acquiring any Oldwalls items is trespassing against Kyros' law, and... Tunon, very much telling us not to do the thing we just did posted:
I don't know how you get "leeway to enter the Oldwalls" out of this. I really don't. Tunon says there's leeway to break some laws but be very careful or you'll be hauled before the Court, and then tells us literally "Under no circumstances" are you to go into the Oldwalls. That's not explicit permission, that's literally risking death if you make the wrong call. You keep posting that the Bane are attracted to magic like it's some big gotcha, even though magic is - once again - the allegory for political power in both the Archons and the items of forbidden knowledge.  Note that the smith describes the Oldwalls item as uniquely powerful. Not magical, not mystical, powerful. Every time we see magic it's linked to political power, from Edicts to Archons to Magician's Folly. The Sages had a ton of it as royal advisors and rebellion mages. It literally fits right in with my interpretation of them representing cognitive dissonance of the powerful, because the powerful all wield copious amounts of magic! Going "whoa, dude, the Bane behave like they would under your theory" like it's some big gotcha sure is something, but seeing as you didn't read Tunon's explicit instructions either I'm not sure what to make of your rebuttal. I can't say interpreting the Bane as pollution is wrong, but you haven't really debunked my interpretation except by misreading the text and then muttering about logical leaps. Let me be clear: the pollution interpretation is not wrong and can be supported by the text. I personally favor the cognitive dissonance interpretation because you could have the Kyrosians pollute the area with a big mine or have lead in the water and that would get your message about pollution across a lot better than needing magic ghosts. TheGreatEvilKing fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Dec 19, 2020 |
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Dec 19, 2020 06:59
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:You're referring to Tunon's dialogue I skipped in the big Tunon chat? Tunon explicitly prefaces that with "the laws apply to you" and warns you that if you break the laws, while there is some leeway, you will have to answer to Tunon. He explicitly warns us to mind that acquiring any Oldwalls items is trespassing against Kyros' law Yes, the Fatebinder has leeway. This includes entering the Oldwalls to capture a criminal. Otherwise, as the one Brotherhood guy observes, they could just hide out indefinitely without consequence. Entering the Oldwalls, and by extension, using the torchkeys that permit passage through them, is something that is at least arguably allowed within the "leeway" Tunon refers to. And, in fact, any violation of Kyros' law that ends in a lawbreaker being punished is generally permissible. Because the option is to either declare "Your pursuit of justice was cool and good, so all those crimes you did were definitely justified" or "You, and by extension me, as the person you represent, totally screwed the pooch on that one". Hm, does that maybe sound like a relevant topical allegory? Like is there perhaps a class of people charged with upholding the law who, especially in recent times, are often permitted to do things that fly in the face of the very laws they're sworn to uphold only to have those actions declared totally copacetic because the people harmed were "baddies"? Fatebinders are cops and cops can do whatever the gently caress they want as long as they don't go completely off the deep end in a manner so public that it's literally impossible not to punish them, and even then, we've seen those fuckers get away with literal murder. Literally all Cleopatra has to do is provide some manner of justification for her actions that doesn't embarrass the court in some way and literally anything she does can and will be forgiven. Just read the poo poo Fatebinder Nunoval's gotten up to. Tunon stated that Fatebinders are to him what he is to Kyros. So if he admits that some/most/all of the Fatebinders break the law constantly without any real need, that makes him look bad, but worse, in Tunon's mind, if he looks bad, he's making Kyros look bad, which is something he just can't allow. So, unless you do something that can get you branded an out-and-out traitor to Kyros, or violate the law so flagrantly that it can't be glossed over, you're free to act with impunity.
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Dec 19, 2020 07:33
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EclecticTastes posted:Yes, the Fatebinder has leeway. This includes entering the Oldwalls to capture a criminal. Otherwise, as the one Brotherhood guy observes, they could just hide out indefinitely without consequence. Entering the Oldwalls, and by extension, using the torchkeys that permit passage through them, is something that is at least arguably allowed within the "leeway" Tunon refers to. And, in fact, any violation of Kyros' law that ends in a lawbreaker being punished is generally permissible. Because the option is to either declare "Your pursuit of justice was cool and good, so all those crimes you did were definitely justified" or "You, and by extension me, as the person you represent, totally screwed the pooch on that one". Check my edit, the site posted too early.
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Dec 19, 2020 07:35
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Just noting that Edict pronounces are permanently marked and damaged by pronouncing Edicts. When you talk to Calio you mention that you smell brimstone, and Calio is constantly dusty and worries about crusting up when they sleep.
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Dec 19, 2020 07:43
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everyone who reads an edict is hosed up for the rest of their often shortened lives except you
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Dec 19, 2020 07:51
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:Check my edit, the site posted too early. Your response still doesn't work because it's contradicted by the text of the game, but this is where we once again run into the problem of trying to discuss interpretations of the game's text when only part of the game's text is on display. You know what I'm referring to, though. You can claim as much as you'd like about the "possibility" of punishment, but for all of Tunon's big talk of law and order and punishments for transgressions, it's all toothless, because punishing an officer of the court for anything less than high treason would indirectly tarnish Kyros' image, and there's your cognitive dissonance. "Going too far" basically only means "openly defying Kyros" and nothing else. Also, the reason they're using magic ghosts to represent pollution rather than a mine is it's a video game and magic ghosts are cooler. Unfortunately, Tyranny is not some perfect network of (really kinda reach-y) connections forming flawless allegories. It's a reasonably competent story with a lot of mixed metaphors that only like 75% work at properly representing what they're supposed to be. Like, your base assumption of "magic=political power" is not as rock solid as you seem to think it is. The leadership of the Tiers had all sorts of political power despite having next to no magic. The various magic guilds had, based on their descriptions, relatively little political power compared to the magic they could wield. "Magic" could just as easily be seen as just representing military technology, or technology in general (an analogy that's very common in fantasy fiction). So by recruiting all the Archons and having all the Edicts (which we've literally been calling "magical nukes" all thread) and absorbing all the magic guilds, Kyros essentially has all the tanks and bombs and guns. And the byproducts of all those tanks and bombs and guns blasting everything are a lot of fallout and pollution (i.e., the Bane).
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Dec 19, 2020 07:52
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bob dobbs is dead posted:everyone who reads an edict is hosed up for the rest of their often shortened lives except you All three of the Fatebinders at Tunon's court read Edicts and are fine. They have effects like Calio's dust, but they don't keel over and die or become sickened. They don't die over the course of the game, either - but this is similar to the process of becoming an Archon, which turns everyone not named Sirin (because she's too young for it) into a flaming mask man/shadow man/glowy man/big stone man/whatever the hell Bleden Mark is. EclecticTastes posted:Your response still doesn't work because it's contradicted by the text of the game, but this is where we once again run into the problem of trying to discuss interpretations of the game's text when only part of the game's text is on display. You know what I'm referring to, though. You can claim as much as you'd like about the "possibility" of punishment, but for all of Tunon's big talk of law and order and punishments for transgressions, it's all toothless, because punishing an officer of the court for anything less than high treason would indirectly tarnish Kyros' image, and there's your cognitive dissonance. "Going too far" basically only means "openly defying Kyros" and nothing else. Tunon does punish officers of the court. There's the Forge-Bound smith who you can execute, Fatebinder Furia, Calio and Bleden Mark will not discuss certain things where he can hear them, and the event you are referring to where failure - as a result of diregarding the laws - ends in death, and it's a fairly exceptional event if you succeed. Tunon literally sent us a missive that we were on thin ice and that he was considering punishing us on behalf of Ashe and Nerat. The entire setup of the Fatebinders is to weed out potential Archons, set them up to fail, and then kill them.  Tunon has a lot of dialogue implying he'll punish us if we gently caress up - not to mention Cleopatra's flashback of how falling asleep in one of Tunon's lectures was death - so arguing somehow that this is a laissez-faire environment where we can wander around doing poo poo with no consequences whatsoever while the game explicitly tells us Tunon is pissed when we broke the law and that leads to our attempted execution at the event you claim vindicates you, so yes, there are in fact consequences for our actions. I will have more to say when we get there but suffice to say I don't agree with your take.. EclecticTastes posted:Also, the reason they're using magic ghosts to represent pollution rather than a mine is it's a video game and magic ghosts are cooler. Unfortunately, Tyranny is not some perfect network of (really kinda reach-y) connections forming flawless allegories. It's a reasonably competent story with a lot of mixed metaphors that only like 75% work at properly representing what they're supposed to be. Like, your base assumption of "magic=political power" is not as rock solid as you seem to think it is. The leadership of the Tiers had all sorts of political power despite having next to no magic. The various magic guilds had, based on their descriptions, relatively little political power compared to the magic they could wield. "Magic" could just as easily be seen as just representing military technology, or technology in general (an analogy that's very common in fantasy fiction). So by recruiting all the Archons and having all the Edicts (which we've literally been calling "magical nukes" all thread) and absorbing all the magic guilds, Kyros essentially has all the tanks and bombs and guns. And the byproducts of all those tanks and bombs and guns blasting everything are a lot of fallout and pollution (i.e., the Bane). We don't see enough of the Tiers leadership to know if they had magic or not, frankly, and the Kyrosian hierarchy is clearly magic> you. That's the hierarchy with the real power, while Queen Vendrien Alata straight up disappears from the game and is never seen in person. Eb is the lone Tidecaster and is pretty highly ranked in the rebellion, the actual Tiers leadership crumbles in a manner of seconds and no one has the political skills to form an alliance, and magic as privilege goes all the way back to Plato and the ring of Gyges (and even shows up in the One Ring in Tolkien). Most fantasy literature is trash ripping off Tolkien for bad analogies drawing on myths they barely understand, so you'll pardon me for not getting into those particular weeds in a fantasy video game - and I don't know why you are spouting off about mixed metaphors when we've been mocking the game for mixing modern values with the Bronze Age to create a weird mashup that works with neither. It's entirely subjective whether magic ghosts are cooler than rulers making bad decisions based on lead poisoning. You're right that Tyranny isn't perfect writing, it's bloated, the prose isn't great and is often misspelled, the modern fascism in the Bronze Age doesn't work as well as the writers thing it does, and I could make the entire LP about how much it fails to live up to this - but I already did LPs like Stygian and Numenera. I'm just happy to do a game that has some meat to it and tries to do something interesting, and I'd rather try and tease out an interpretation than do another "this prose is bad, the gameplay is poo poo, and this game is incoherent, stupid, and offensive." I don't mean to be boorish, but I'm getting real sick of replying to your posts with text citations only to have you reply with no evidence at all. If you think there are leaps in logic, point them out! I don't claim to have all the answers about this game, but you keep making all these big statements with no textual support and then muttering about leaps of logic and reaches without offering examples. I've provided a spoilered example of a Fatebinder getting executed for breaking Kyros' Peace by killing rapists, you've provided vague and unsupported statements about how Fatebinders are cops with like, no oversight, maaaaaaaan! I don't object to you arguing, I do object to the lack of evidence in your posts and your constant claims that I haven't read the text despite me citing the text and you very much not. If you want to start a spoiler thread in games I'm happy to do that, if you want to post some spoilered citations we can do that - hell, I've been posting the entire text here, feel free to quotemine the updates! I'm not asking you to leave the thread or post less, but I am getting kind of sick of spending hours going back through the updates to look for citations only to be dismissed with "well that's a leap of logic, lol! You clearly didn't read the text I'm not going to cite!" You want to point out a metaphor that doesn't work? Cite a contradiction! You're throwing out bold statements like "The leadership of the Tiers had all sorts of political power" or "magic is an analogy for technology" but you don't put the effort to actually prove any of this, so engaging with your posts is quite frankly an exercise in frustration. I'm fine with spoilers in tags. Go nuts.
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Dec 19, 2020 09:27
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:I don't mean to be boorish, but I'm getting real sick of replying to your posts with text citations only to have you reply with no evidence at all. If you think there are leaps in logic, point them out! I don't claim to have all the answers about this game, but you keep making all these big statements with no textual support and then muttering about leaps of logic and reaches without offering examples. I've provided a spoilered example of a Fatebinder getting executed for breaking Kyros' Peace by killing rapists, you've provided vague and unsupported statements about how Fatebinders are cops with like, no oversight, maaaaaaaan! I don't object to you arguing, I do object to the lack of evidence in your posts and your constant claims that I haven't read the text despite me citing the text and you very much not. If you want to start a spoiler thread in games I'm happy to do that, if you want to post some spoilered citations we can do that - hell, I've been posting the entire text here, feel free to quotemine the updates! I'm not asking you to leave the thread or post less, but I am getting kind of sick of spending hours going back through the updates to look for citations only to be dismissed with "well that's a leap of logic, lol! You clearly didn't read the text I'm not going to cite!" You want to point out a metaphor that doesn't work? Cite a contradiction! You're throwing out bold statements like "The leadership of the Tiers had all sorts of political power" or "magic is an analogy for technology" but you don't put the effort to actually prove any of this, so engaging with your posts is quite frankly an exercise in frustration. I'm fine with spoilers in tags. Go nuts. You seem to have mistaken a bunch of classical texts for evidence, when you have zero proof that anyone on the dev team has even heard of said texts, never mind having read, understood, and applied the concepts therein to their video game. All of my evidence comes from within the text of the game itself and application of Occam's Razor. Police overreach is a current hot button issue, the Fatebinders are not given remotely the kind of oversight you think they are, the connection is pretty easy to make. And you apparently completely missed the point of Act Three entirely, given that it's explicitly a setup to kill the Fatebinder because they've become a threat to Kyros. At that point in the game, it no longer matters what you've done, because unless you can make a masterful legal argument and have accrued sufficient Favor with Tunon, you will always be sentenced to death, because Tunon is at that point under express orders to convict you, which is exactly what Bleden Mark tells you in this very path through the game. Honestly, I didn't want to sound rude, but many of your takes so far have sounded more like you picked out your conclusion first, then hunted down the relevant texts that support your theories, and while I might be the most vocal person to disagree with those conclusions, it's not like I'm the only one. I appreciate that you put a lot of research into your interpretations of the text, but that doesn't make your read more valid than someone just playing the game and interpreting it based on its own content and humdrum modern sociopolitical context.
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Dec 19, 2020 10:06
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come on just kiss you two all jokes aside, while it's interesting to read your contrasting theories why don't you let the LP unfold a bit more? those of us who haven't played it don't know what you're talking about yet and it'd be nice to form our own opinions on the writing I know I could just skip your posts and avoid reading the spoilers but then I'd miss out on one half of the LP experience
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Dec 19, 2020 10:30
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Very well, we can come back to this in Act 3.
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Dec 19, 2020 10:46
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Well I, for one, enjoy the 'bane as allegory for exposure to new ideologies' reading of the text. It's at least more interesting then the 'bane are spoopy magic ghosts  ' reading.Thanks for sharing your thoughts TGEK, I enjoy your LP.
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Dec 19, 2020 18:49
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I also buy TGEK's interpretation. Maybe EclecticTastes' evidence comes later in the game and so he can't provide much evidence yet, but I'm not seeing much textual evidence in-game to support the "magic pollution" interpretation, and that reading seems contradicted by all the magic flying around in various places that doesn't have any Bane activity associated with it. Otherwise, Archons who use magic frequently would be constantly fending off the Bane. And surely if Kyros is "dumping" the magical pollution of her own magic elsewhere, there'd need to be a mechanism visible through which it's happening? There's very clearly an undercurrent associating the Bane with "forbidden/lost knowledge" in a way which both accounts for their presence in these ancient places and their showing up after the Edict destroys the Vellum Citadel. Either the sages were constantly warding off the Bane trying to get at all that collected magic until the place got sacked and the Bane got in, or the Bane arrive after the sages die or flee because they are drawn by the presence of multiple Kyros-related agents delving into what is a place of forbidden knowledge for them. In other words, while parts of the library were off limits to almost anyone prior to the Edict, the knowledge contained there was not considered by the sages to be "things humanity was not meant to know" and the Bane only showed up because now the seekers after that knowledge understand it to be dangerous and forbidden. Mechanically, they seem not entirely dissimilar to insanity mechanics in Lovecraftian-type RPGs. Instead of forbidden and world-shattering knowledge having an internal and potentially hidden corrosive effect, it gets externalized as the Bane, whose effect is to reinforce or perpetuate ignorance and punish curiosity, even if that's not what drives them. The otherwise baffling behavior of Raetommon fits pretty neatly into the pattern of someone driven mad by Lovecraftian horrors, behaving irrationally, showing no interest in understanding or incorporating the secret knowledge he may now possess into an existing worldview so much as exploding that worldview and replacing it with nothing holding any coherence. If we were to apply Occam's Razor--which is the wrong tool here, always choosing the simplest mechanisms through which to explain natural phenomena has nothing to do with interpretation--I think we'd have to conclude that the Bane reflect a need the designers saw for another variety of enemy encounter that they could sprinkle throughout specific sections of the game to create more and longer combats and pad out the game length. But even if that explains their presence, it says nothing about their signification.
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Dec 19, 2020 19:28
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whoops wrong thread, nevermind (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 19, 2020 19:28
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TheGreatEvilKing, you have to understand here: if your interpretations are correct, it implies the entire system is self-contradictory and doesn't make sense, leading to arbitrary outcomes! The idea that a person would be put into a situation where they MUST break the law, only to punish them later for breaking the law, is patently absurd! The entire system would be unworkable!
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Dec 21, 2020 01:08
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Cleopatra Jones and the Big Bane Beatdown Last time on Tyranny, TheGreatEvilKing got beaten down by a video game boss, calling his self-proclaimed appellation of "Great" into question. Today we witness Cleopatra Jones' successful attempt to overcome the threat of the Havoc Bane so she can steal a cool hat to gain power.  We kit out some new spells. The Gravelight school does Arcane damage and will mess up Bane pretty bad. We need to nail the Havoc with as many stuns, paralyzes, freezes, and whatever else we can pull out of our metaphorical wizard hats so that it doesn't get off any of its bullshit that will stop us from applying a ton of damage to its stupid glowy eyes.  Verse is put in her upgrade Three Whispers stance so she can kind of dodge tank. She now has two - don't pick the 20 dodge one, pick the 30 dodge one!  Another mistake that people make is activating the last keystone stand away from the party - I've been guilty of this.  This is what you want - Verse, our "tank" is fully buffed, the party is grouped into something resembling a battle order, and we have time between the Bane waves to not get overwhelmed and slaughtered.  COME AT ME, BRO!  One of the things I didn't show is that both Verse and Killsy got the touch-range paralysis spell in the Gravelight school. This means they too can get in on the "stack debuffs" game, with the added bonus that paralysis drops enemy defenses and makes it easier for us to drop criticals on this rear end in a top hat.  The Bane obligingly line up so that Cleopatra can hit them with her new Bane-B-Gone spell.  You want to AoE chunk down the boss AND the melee bane. Keep the Havoc CC'd and AoE blast the boss and the melee Bane. Ignore the Malice casting Bolt of Corruption - they're rude and they hit hard, but are ultimately irrelevant for reasons we'll get into.  They can lay down some pretty spooky particle effects, including one which I believe makes your team take more damage from Bane attacks, but just keep spamming stuns and you'll be a happy camper.  Bolt of Corruption looks spooky but doesn't do much - meanwhile, Kills in Shadow is living up to the murderous part of her apellation.  The Havoc can also paralyze, because gently caress you! This is why you have to keep it stunned, it's going to ruin your life otherwise! Eb demonstrates with this sick line of ice.  Both the Malices are out doing stuff. Don't worry about it.  Stunlock it like it's a Mortal Kombat game you're playing with a hated ex.  Eventually it's going to try to use this move. Disperse makes it invulnerable for a time while the other Bane beat you to death. I try to cheese it here and use Eb and Cleo's "gently caress right off" moon levitation attack.  The small red Bane tries to flee but is killed by Moonlight Serenade.  This is another of the Havoc's annoying gimmicks - it can kill one of the caster Bane to heal itself. Unfortunately for the Havoc, it's still vulnerable to our stupidly large array of bullshit status effects that prevent it from doing things.  Rest in peace, Big Bane! You were a breath of fresh air from all of the tediousness of Tyranny combat. I'll never forget you! Killing the Havoc kills both Malices...  The camera pans out to Zdenya and the horde of red Bane in the traps.  The traps explode as the Bane die. I have my theories about this but I'll wait till we get out of the Oldwalls.  The Bane is kind enough to drop this staff which gives immunity to frightened. It's a random spawn, don't read too much into it.  Upon lighting the last keystand the bridge extends and we are able to leave the Oldwalls.  The game gives us the option to kill Zdenya for some stupid reason, and it always annoys me when the game gives us idiotically violent options. This is a game all about examining power and evil, and yet when it comes to the player character they can only think of evil options that make you act like a mindless thug. Oh well. We free her, because we don't lose anything by it.   : Your fate is of no concern to me. I simply needed the Helm. Go, before I change my mind.You'd think as a diplomat we'd be a little more silver tongued. Something like "I personally killed all the Bane, I need the helmet, and I saved your life." However, Cleopatra has had some revelations recently so it's hard to blame her.  It's our hat now and they love us for it! Who knows. TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 Seriously, the Forge-Bound love us! Oh well, let's leave the Oldwalls.  First, however, we loot the chest behind her. It contains Tempest, an artifact 2H sword that summons lightning and makes Cleo MORE powerful, and the elixir of Finesse which gives a permanent +1 Finesse to the drinker. As she's hit the soft cap, we make poor Cleo guzzle it for more power.  More accuracy means more crits and we have a higher critical modifer from our staff - and in the future, our talents. We have a ways to go.  Anyway, now that we're out of the Oldwalls, we can discuss what just happened. It's not a coincidence that the Havoc appeared right as we dealt with Raetommon - a clown who forced us to decide which of Kyros' laws we had to break and furthermore put us in a position where breaking the law was the only way to save not just ourselves, but the Kyrosian Empire AND Lethian's Crossing. Before this we'd never really had any qualms about the validity of the law - Tunon told us his work was for the benefit of others, and had fairly compelling rationalizations too. Don't go into the Oldwalls because they're dangerous. Don't spread forbidden knowledge because people can use that to bring down order. Share your food so your neighbors don't starve. Dole out harsh punishments for breaking Kyros' Peace so everyone can live in harmony. We've broken the law for our own benefit (like claiming the Spire in the Crossing), and we've twisted it against Ashe and Nerat - but we've encountered nothing so far that would shake our belief in the law. Until now. Raetommon, by launching a rebellion and hiding in the Oldwalls, put us in the position where we had to violate the law against the Oldwalls by going into them. Now, a fair amount of the laws inconvenienced us personally, but this is the first time that following the laws would have screwed over the Empire as a whole. If Raetommon's plan had succeeded, he would have taken away the Disfavored's iron mines as well as a ton of skilled, irreplaceable smiths and choked local trade. Before we could write off Graven Ashe and Nerat as letting their personal dispositions get in the way of service to the empire, or that we were just breaking the laws to benefit us (like claiming the Spire) and it was kind of bad but the laws were overall good, but the things we've seen in Lethian's Crossing put the lie to it. Raetommon put us in the position to break the law either way. The Forge-bound, supposedly part of Tunon's Court, blatantly defied the proscription on entering the Oldwalls because they wanted to make new things. This all combined with a massive shift that manifested itself as the aptly named "Havoc" that Raetommon wanted to release - and that Cleopatra had to defeat to proceed. I've said all this before, nothing new. However, the fight against the Havoc is really where Cleopatra was forced to confront this information and process it in some conscious or unconscious way. Why did the Havoc keep summoning more Bane from the Bane traps? Because the combat in this game also doubles as a metaphor for the clash of ideas - an idea the game will explicitly confirm later if we make certain choices. The little Banes we had to burst down are more and more ideas from the past/cognitive dissonance/whatever seeping in through the hole the big context change made. Overcoming the Havoc makes all the little Bane disappear. Why? They're no longer a threat to Cleopatra. By defeating the Havoc, Cleopatra has somehow gotten past the context change - either by rationalizing it or just accepting that the system is contradictory and broken. The smaller ideas that come with it aren't a threat - indeed, they reinforce the new worldview and let Cleopatra see the situation with fresh eyes. We come out of the Oldwalls with the knowledge the system doesn't work and that the laws are to be respected only when backed with imminent force. Despite what Tunon tells us, the laws are not morals, and they don't even produce the desired result - and once we realized this, the smaller questions - "how can Graven Ashe have beaten Kyros for so long if Kyros is infallible" - have clear answers. This leads us into whatever happened with Raetommon. It's not clear what, exactly, exposure to the Bane led Raetommon to believe, but both Cleopatra and the Bronze Brotherhood mercenaries tell us that Raetommon was a sane man who snapped after being exposed to the Bane. It's clear that despite all of the ranting and the foot pouting and the bad leadership Raetommon was unable to change his worldview after being exposed to new ideas. Before meeting the Bane Raetommon and the Brotherhood essentially ruled Lethian's Crossing by force. After meeting the Bane Raetommon makes all of these insane Bane-related plans to...rule Lethian's Crossing by force. The Bane do not cause any kind of new realization in Raetommon, the cognitive dissonance snaps and turns on itself to get him to do the same stupid garbage he was going to do but with a fresh coat of rationalization. To cap it all off, he steals the Magebane Helmet, which protects from the Bane. How do we know this? Earlier in the game posted:The Helmet covers his eyes and ears. See no evil. Hear no evil. Speak all the evil you want. It protects you from the Bane by letting you ignore what they have to metaphorically say. If anything, Raetommon is a conservative - he plans to unleash all these radical ideas on the town as a weird magic ghost strawman, throw them back by force of arms, and then explain that the way it was before was the only way it could have worked so he deserves to be king of Lethian's Crossing, please! Anyway, we have some more stuff to do.  This guy runs up and says Eldian was worried about us and that without a garrison Lethian's Crossing is vulnerable, but thanks us for protecting the crossing. We tell him that "The Challenges of the Oldwalls could never keep me from protecting Lethian's Crossing", he thanks us, and leaves.  The DLC area is open, should we wish to go there. I want to swing by Tunon's court to see if the next trial has popped up yet.  We run into a harmless old wacky man.  We can kill him, give him some cash, or point him at an Archon we have high wrath with, but Cleopatra disarms him and lets him live. There have been enough deaths for Kyros.  Leeroy Jenkins, freedom fighter.  We don't really get anything here.  Unfortunately the next trial hasn't appeared, which is a shame because it sheds some light on the experience of Fatebinding. Oh well. We got a missive!  The bird couldn't find Sage L, it seems, and we must go do the DLC ourselves. Let's go talk to the Markinator.   This looks interesting.  Little bloated Tyranny.  : Shadow slew Beastwoman not from Shadowhunter tribe, but from Haven-lands. So also will be nothing personal when Kills-in-Shadow rends Archon's belly into red, gaping maw.: Baring her fangs in a terrifying grin, she sits back on her haunches and lets the moment go, ever the patient hunter. : Finished with the Beastwoman, he flicks his gaze to you, and in a blink, his eyes once more glower like a candle flame in the night.: That aura looks good on you - the Magebane. I mean, its iron smells of charred scourge - fascinating bit of work those Forge-Bound make. With it, you'll have little to fear in the Oldwalls. : Why would you... ? Look, if you need to borrow it, you can just ask me. Here I thought we were being polite. This is why we don't play Cyberpunk till 5 am. : Okay, sure.(I also didn't save mid-conversation, so next update we won't have the Wrath).  : Seconds drag into minutes and minutes crawl into -: With a flare of darkness, he stands suddenly before you. He still holds the helm in his hands, but his shock-white hair is now damp and plastered to his head. Glowing amber eyes study you with a newfound respect.  What was Mark doing in the Oldwalls? Maybe we'll find out!   Decisions lie before us! Where are we going, and are we doing the DLC area first? Do note I haven't played the Bastard's Wound area, so it will be new to me as well. Who's going to be in the party? A new area means a new squad. Pick three from Barik, Lantry, Verse, Sirin, Eb, and Kills In Shadow Who are we chatting with? I'm willing to show off Eb, Kills in Shadow, or Barik. As always, choose wisely!
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Dec 21, 2020 04:11
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: My hero! Thank you for saving me!
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D L C because i never got around to playing it myself
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Dec 21, 2020 04:22
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dlc, talk with Eb and have lantry, killsy, eb as your party.
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Dec 21, 2020 07:46
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Let's hit up the DLC with Lantry, Eb, and Sirin and have a chat with Killsy.
BisbyWorl fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Dec 21, 2020 |
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Dec 21, 2020 07:58
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Do the DLC, talk to Eb, party with Eb, Sirin, and Barik.
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Dec 21, 2020 08:32
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Just an FYI for the DLC voters, we do need to tell Mark one of the two options.
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Dec 21, 2020 21:13
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 15:19 |
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Go to the Blade Grave because I don't even remember which area is which and can't be arsed to go looking through old updates. Might be useful to have a precis of them. Bring Lantry, Sirin and Eb because mages rule. Talk to Eb.
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Dec 21, 2020 22:21
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