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Motto posted:Nocturne HD just got patched with manual inheritance, lol I love it. Glad they went with the option for normal people instead of masochists.
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Dec 23, 2020 04:13
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Arist posted:Ahahahaha, just outright changing a massive-yet-tiny design quirk that effectively rebalances the entire game's difficulty around it, wow You see, SMT 3 is a perfectly balanced game with no exploits.
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Dec 23, 2020 04:13
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Pure manual sucks so much. At least do an affinity mechanic.
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Dec 23, 2020 04:16
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Might be good if you can condition yourself to only use it in moderation to remove a bit of tedium without going whole hog SMT4 style having a demon with Ma+every element skills midway through the game. EDIT: vvvv Looks like randomness is still an option since it lists both "Skill Shuffle" and "Skill Inheritance" as added features https://personacentral.com/smt-iii-hd-version-1-02-update/ Item Getter fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Dec 23, 2020 |
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Dec 23, 2020 04:31
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Is there still an option for randomness? Also, did they fix the performance issues? Ongoing development is a good sign for fixes either way, but I'd have wanted bug fixes before this.
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Dec 23, 2020 04:32
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Item Getter posted:Might be good if you can condition yourself to only use it in moderation to remove a bit of tedium without going whole hog SMT4 style having a demon with Ma+every element skills midway through the game. I mean the tedium specifically was if you were trying to get that. If you just wanted to transfer one skill or so it was a noneffort. It was getting the perfect skills to transfer every time that caused infinite rerolling.
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Dec 23, 2020 04:39
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Honestly the biggest issue for me are the load-times and the lack of quality in-game music. It is interesting that they're willing to patch in design things though.
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Dec 23, 2020 04:40
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https://www.atlus.co.jp/news/15141/ Official patch notes. I'm not sure what the problems were but it looks like they fixed some stuff with animations speeds and key response times.
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Dec 23, 2020 04:57
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wow, that's pretty cool! i was thinking that i was gonna pass on the hd remake if the issues weren't fixed, but it's already looking up (and manual skill inherits is always nice for QoL stuff) 
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Dec 23, 2020 04:58
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Fingers crossed that when this game from 2003 is finally released in English for $60 it runs ok
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Dec 23, 2020 10:00
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can they also make it so it doesn't look worse than the original, because then i might consider it
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Dec 23, 2020 18:06
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re: skill inheritance: it's a problem with no perfect solution. - manual selection makes it too easy to get perfect super-demons with no real downsides or sub-optimal abilities, especially in a game that wasn't designed around it. this is one of three reasons persona 4 golden gets braindead easy after the first dungeon or two - auto-inheritance that you can re-roll as many times as you have patience for is tedious and not fun - a theorerical auto-inheritance that gets set in stone somehow, like with a seed that's randomly picked at demon acquisition or whatever, would suck the excitement out of fusion and make it way too likely that you skip good demons because the RNG decided you can only get them with poo poo skills so, pick your poison
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Dec 23, 2020 18:21
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If manual inheritance is breaking the game, the problem is more fundamental than the choice to let players skip rerolling skills for two hours. Balance the game by limiting the amount of skills that can be inherited somehow, like some demons can only inherit specific subsets of the skill list, or the fused demon can only inherit one skill from each demon used as its material, something like that. Random inheritance is just lazy.
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Dec 23, 2020 18:33
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Manual inheritance is fine. It's okay. It's a good QoL improvement. Should they aim to make it be similar to SMT IV Apocalypse, which had it almost down pat? Sure, that'd be nice. But hey, it works. It ain't gonna "break the game in half" like it did with SMT IV or P4G, but Nocturne seems like it's still gonna more or less work the same on everything else, so it's a cool addition that just makes things slightly easier.
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Dec 23, 2020 18:44
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I still think they should make some sort of points system where skills cost a certain amount of points, effected by the demons affinity. But that's way beyond a fairly low effort remake like this. Maybe SMT 5 will do better.
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Dec 23, 2020 19:01
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I agree: Something like the SMT4A system of 'demons are inherently good with some types of skills and bad with others' would be a good limit
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Dec 23, 2020 19:14
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Feels like they half-assed and now they're actually working to fix it in post. I blame management.
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Dec 23, 2020 19:15
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I definitely hope SMT5 uses SMT4A's "demons are good at certain elements and bad with others" system, but I can't really imagine stapling that system onto SMT3 because there are comparatively fewer demons available
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Dec 23, 2020 19:34
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if they don't do anything with the music, I don't see why I'd buy this versus just emulating it and making it look nice
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Dec 23, 2020 19:53
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They probably don't have the original files to do anything with. Developers routinely threw everything out after the game was done.
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Dec 23, 2020 20:10
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I'm very near the end of SMT4 now (not nearly as near as I thought I was) and the real meat and bones of the game, i.e. exploring Tokyo, hunting for loot, making friends, was great fun but the pacing feels real weird overall. Mild spoilers: The intro dungeon goes on at least twice as long as it should for all it offers (I wonder what's in this brown cave), then Tokyo is slightly too short yet somehow incredibly long for the amount of actual story development that happens, then you get Alternate Tokyo A with reduced exploration leading to Tokyo B with even less exploration creating a distinct "race to the finish" feeling to the pacing. This is followed up by the most textbook pre-final boss mini-boss run in RPG history with the white forest and I was pretty sure I was about to fight the final boss then and there. Nope, game dumps you back in regular Tokyo for more questing. It hasn't ruined my enjoyment of the game too much but I was all geared up for the finish and ready to complete the game last night then it puts on the brakes and makes me cruise around with actual factual satan while I reconsider my brave vision of the future.  I really enjoyed the game as a whole though, so I already picked up Deep Strange Journey Redux to play once I'm done.
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Dec 24, 2020 14:42
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RillAkBea posted:I'm very near the end of SMT4 now (not nearly as near as I thought I was) and the real meat and bones of the game, i.e. exploring Tokyo, hunting for loot, making friends, was great fun but the pacing feels real weird overall. To be fair, depending on your story route you could be ready for the final dungeon right now. That, or you could have hours and hours to go still...
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Dec 25, 2020 11:56
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RillAkBea posted:I'm very near the end of SMT4 now (not nearly as near as I thought I was) and the real meat and bones of the game, i.e. exploring Tokyo, hunting for loot, making friends, was great fun but the pacing feels real weird overall. When SMT4 came out the Tokyo part was a twist. The opening area is intentionally modeled after Etrian Odyssey and gives the impression the game being that. Getting to the bottom and it turning into a regular SMT is part of that.
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Dec 25, 2020 16:40
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Yosuke Romance Mod is complete. Merry Christmas.
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Dec 26, 2020 06:49
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NikkolasKing posted:Yosuke Romance Mod is complete. no idea this was in the works, I can't wait to play it Merry Christmas!
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Dec 26, 2020 06:53
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ImpAtom posted:When SMT4 came out the Tokyo part was a twist. Unfortunately nobody told the marketing team because it was all over the previews and the box art. I finished it though, it turned out I was good to go ahead to the final dungeon already. I got the chaos ending which is basically what I was going for as they made neutral so obtuse to get but it was worth it just to see the Kelpies and Pellaidh fight over who gets Lake Mikado 
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Dec 26, 2020 11:16
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NikkolasKing posted:Yosuke Romance Mod is complete. drat, I had no idea this was in the works. Also, thanks for fixing that terrible camping scene w/Kanji. Is it time for my 5th re-play of P4:G?!
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Dec 26, 2020 19:09
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ImpAtom posted:Well, that's gonna break the game in loving two. Thank gently caress for that option. Nobody likes reshuffling in menus; I just had to go through that in my recent replay and gently caress me was that poo poo draining and boring.
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Dec 26, 2020 22:17
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Tactless Ogre posted:Thank gently caress for that option. Nobody likes reshuffling in menus; I just had to go through that in my recent replay and gently caress me was that poo poo draining and boring. You could've just... not done that...
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Dec 27, 2020 06:03
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Cleretic posted:You could've just... not done that... People don't want to make their demons with useless skills instead of good skills.
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Dec 27, 2020 06:12
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Cleretic posted:You could've just... not done that... When given the option of tedious and unfun but optimal or suboptimal of course people will do the former Then they go to the PYF things dragging a game down thread and tall about how awful that is because it's tedious and unfun
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Dec 27, 2020 06:57
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NikkolasKing posted:People don't want to make their demons with useless skills instead of good skills. Good thing that binary isn't what's being discussed here
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Dec 27, 2020 07:42
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Saagonsa posted:Good thing that binary isn't what's being discussed here The discussion was about exactly that since random skill inheritance gets you a load of poo poo you don't want or need so you have to keep reloading until you actually get useful skills on your fused demon. From what I was reading Cleretic was saying you don't have to do this reshuffling but if you don't, you get a nothing but subpar demons missing vital skills. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Dec 27, 2020 |
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Dec 27, 2020 09:13
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NikkolasKing posted:The discussion was about exactly that since random skill inheritance gets you a load of poo poo you don't want or need so you have to keep reloading until you actually get useful skills on your fused demon. Yeah this just isn't true, is the thing. Demons tend to weight their inheritance based on what they're supposed to be good at, so while you're extremely not going to make an optimal demon without a lot of rerolling, you don't need to do it to get something that has at least some useful skills, assuming the base demons you're using have them of course. Random inheritance is very far from perfect and there are ways to do it better, but people act like its so much worse than it actually is and it's very annoying.
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Dec 27, 2020 09:39
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It's not a good system.
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Dec 27, 2020 10:32
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This patch allowing manual skill inheritance is the thing that pushed this remaster from "meh" to something I actually want to buy, because it's the one thing I can get out of the remaster that I can't just patch into the game on emulator (besides VA but I don't really care about that) and the shuffle inheritance was the major thing keeping me from doing another run of Nocturne. Now to hope they remaster P3 next and give it Golden's skill inheritance. Like I played through the game on PS2 with shuffle inheritance so it's obviously not something that ruined the game for me but I vastly prefer manual inheritance, even if there are restrictions on what you can and can't inherit.
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Dec 27, 2020 11:51
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kirbysuperstar posted:It's not a good system. It's not a good system, but you'd have to actively be trying to get hosed over by it. Which people did, but not in ways that made useless demons. Just ways that made useless hours.
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Dec 27, 2020 11:56
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how could anyone possibly care about a completely optional feature they dont have to use lol stop being so concerned over how other people play games itll make you feel better
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Dec 27, 2020 16:40
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Stux posted:how could anyone possibly care about a completely optional feature they dont have to use lol stop being so concerned over how other people play games itll make you feel better I don't think anyone has clarified yet if it is optional or not is why people are concerned. If it's just a toggle then yeah it's no big deal, if it's a full-on replacement with no option then it kinda sucks for people who wanted the original.
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Dec 27, 2020 20:51
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ImpAtom posted:I don't think anyone has clarified yet if it is optional or not is why people are concerned. If it's just a toggle then yeah it's no big deal, if it's a full-on replacement with no option then it kinda sucks for people who wanted the original. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZMcvNsBwn8 The default fusion result shows the old 'random' type and then from there you can do manual.
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Dec 27, 2020 21:01
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