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Goldskull posted:Like a KitKat wrapper? Metallic substrate. Usually silver foil type stuff with a white underprint & colour overprinting that. There's a bunch of things like big bag crisp packaging (think Tyrells/Kettle) where it has a recycle symbol AND a 'put this in the bin' symbol & I don't know what the gently caress they're playing at, not worked on those for ages. I mainly do Tobacco/Pharma/Drinks. Do you have a thread where you talk about packaging and design? because I’m finding it strangely interesting and have a load of questions for you but don’t want to derail this thread.
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Dec 24, 2020 11:47
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Caught sensible brain from a journalist. Very sad.
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Dec 24, 2020 11:47
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I appreciate people in this thread challenging the orthodoxies around sustainability - like most people, I have an absolute presumption that paper/carton/cardboard > plastic in every case, and am now perturbed that I might be wrong. I guess fundamentally, as with all things, the issue is that the consumption and production of pretty much anything in a globalised capitalist economy creates waste and pollution, and the answer is simply to produce less, and produce it and consume it as economically as you can. Similarly, everyone rushing to pre-order electric cars seems pretty counter-intuitive when it would definitely be more environmentally friendly to just keep using your current car until it dies, rather than expend resources on creating something new.
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Dec 24, 2020 11:48
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Bobstar posted:Verbing weirds language. 'An Artworker basically takes the creative design concepts from the designer, tidies them up or reworks the design to create an entire document, fixing colours, typography, consistencies, etc and making the file print ready. ... Occasionally an Artworker may also be required to produce necessary mock ups and design visuals.' 
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Dec 24, 2020 11:49
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Niric posted:I assume it's a reference to Bellingcat, whose founder is Brown Moses on the forums. They've had funding from some soft power promoting foundation things (which if you squint could be construed as CIA adjacent I guess) and had been accused of toeing heavily to the US line on a bunch of issues. Oh, I was hoping maybe pissflaps was a CIA plant. Obviously well-aware of the rumours around BM & Bellingcat. They probably do sometimes get assistance from intelligence agencies (some of the datasets they manage to get access to are.... interesting) but I a) have faith in the accuracy of their data and integrity of their investigations and b) reckon Eliot would not knowingly accept support from the CIA because if he did the moment it got exposed he would lose all credibility. If there was some smoking gun I am sure the Russians would have exposed it a long time ago... I guess the reason they are seen as 'towing the US line' is because often what they expose are the actions of Russians/Syrians/etc. I suppose US is more risky given the long-arm of US jurisdiction on issues including e.g. espionage, while many other countries have much much weaker laws in that regard and far fewer extradition agreements etc.
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Dec 24, 2020 11:51
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Goldskull posted:@Bobstar: what's weird about the verbiage? I'm an artworker. I artwork things. Usually packaging. It's a Calvin & Hobbes reference, I'd not come across it as a verb before. Carry on!
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Dec 24, 2020 11:53
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Goldskull posted:Like a KitKat wrapper? Metallic substrate. Usually silver foil type stuff with a white underprint & colour overprinting that. There's a bunch of things like big bag crisp packaging (think Tyrells/Kettle) where it has a recycle symbol AND a 'put this in the bin' symbol & I don't know what the gently caress they're playing at, not worked on those for ages. I mainly do Tobacco/Pharma/Drinks. If yoy mean the double arrow "recycle" symbol then doesn't mean it can be recycled, it just means the company that made the product donates money to recycling initiatives. It's misleading as gently caress.
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Dec 24, 2020 11:53
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The best green packaging is reused packaging. But that requires smaller more local manufacturing because returning egg cartons back from the supermarket to farms on the other side of the world or whatever is totally infeasible. Maybe if we had no deal...
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Dec 24, 2020 11:54
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Brown Moses sold out to make money which I don't blame him for because I'd probably do the same but be is funded by the US state department
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Dec 24, 2020 11:56
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Bobstar posted:I know nothing, but isn't a further problem with plastic that "recycling" is quite limited, can only be done once into a worse kind of plastic, and can't even be done with all types in the first place? That's not a great gain if you're getting your plastic from oil in the first place, it's just burning diesel with extra steps, but if your plastic comes from wood or hemp then it's a way of getting low carbon fuel with packaging as an intermediate step. radmonger posted:In theory, you could make plastic packaging that was lower-impact than cardboard, at least for some cases where weight matters. The problem is the result would be visually identical to regular plastic, and so wouldn’t support a price premium over regular plastic. So in reality all actually existing plastic is produced using the cheapest, and so often dirtiest, methods possible. Whereas the entire cardboard industry is focused on being an eco friendly alternative to plastic. So it does proper forest management, uses green energy etc.
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Dec 24, 2020 11:56
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Lungboy posted:If yoy mean the double arrow "recycle" symbol then doesn't mean it can be recycled, it just means the company that made the product donates money to recycling initiatives. It's misleading as gently caress. I don't think there's any saving the various arrow symbols as useful information bearers for the end user. Much Dutch-made stuff seems to have a little symbol of a person putting it in the relevant bin, which helps. Though I discovered the almond packet is "restavfal" (other waste, which I enjoy pronouncing like festival), rather than plastics. So a good start might be to use actual plastic for all synthetic packaging, rather than weird foily things as mentioned above, so it stands a chance at recycling. Though I'm sure that would have a downside too - I can see why Chidi's stomach hurt so much.
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Dec 24, 2020 11:58
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Jose posted:Brown Moses sold out to make money which I don't blame him for because I'd probably do the same but be is funded by the US state department Probably not just the US state department either. I remember him posting articles and crowing about how Bellingcat was setting up an office in I think the UN or some other large governmental org. Journalistic entities don't get to be allowed that close to power without some serious strings attached.
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Dec 24, 2020 12:02
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Lol https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1342063267859075073?s=19
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Dec 24, 2020 12:04
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The Green Dot is the one I was thinking of. I know tons of people that think it means stuff can be recycled. e: recycling chat: is it true that foil needs to be in large amounts to be recycled otherwise the machinery can't detect it? I'm thinking things like 2 finger kitkat wrappers etc. Lungboy fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Dec 24, 2020 |
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Dec 24, 2020 12:04
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Goldskull posted:Like a KitKat wrapper? Metallic substrate. Usually silver foil type stuff with a white underprint & colour overprinting that. There's a bunch of things like big bag crisp packaging (think Tyrells/Kettle) where it has a recycle symbol AND a 'put this in the bin' symbol & I don't know what the gently caress they're playing at, not worked on those for ages. I mainly do Tobacco/Pharma/Drinks. TACD fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Dec 24, 2020 |
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Dec 24, 2020 12:05
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Jose posted:Brown Moses sold out to make money which I don't blame him for because I'd probably do the same but be is funded by the US state department Selling out is a strong way to put it. The state department funds all kinds of good investigative work because doing lovely things "well" requires good information. From personal experience (nothing to do with belingcat, but I have worked with an organisation that gets state department funding) I've seen that in at least one case they haven't cut funding when things keep turning up that hurts their narrative/propaganda. They just completely and brazenly ignore/contradict it in policy.
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Dec 24, 2020 12:07
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Lungboy posted:If yoy mean the double arrow "recycle" symbol then doesn't mean it can be recycled, it just means the company that made the product donates money to recycling initiatives. It's misleading as gently caress. Yeah the GrunePunkt or Green Point. I don't question these things, I just get a brief that says 'put these things on the back of pack'. Helith posted:Do you have a thread where you talk about packaging and design? because I’m finding it strangely interesting and have a load of questions for you but don’t want to derail this thread. Nope but I'm on twitter or DM me?
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Dec 24, 2020 12:08
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I'm just waiting for some company to invent a packaging that is basically just non-degradable carbon derived from atmospheric CO2, and sell it as a carbon sink product where putting it in landfill is good foe the environment.
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Dec 24, 2020 12:08
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The Perfect Element posted:I appreciate people in this thread challenging the orthodoxies around sustainability - like most people, I have an absolute presumption that paper/carton/cardboard > plastic in every case, and am now perturbed that I might be wrong. Same like with everyone raving about how much better for the environment the covid-19 has been because of the clear skies, but Physics World did an article a couple of months back on how it has had different - not good - impacts on the environment. I'll see if I can dig out a link (I've chucked the physical mag out a while ago now). https://physicsworld.com/a/has-the-covid-19-lockdown-changed-earths-climate/ quote:Has the COVID-19 lockdown changed Earth’s climate? Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Dec 24, 2020 |
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Dec 24, 2020 12:08
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Remember when barcodes were the number of the Beast that the UN was going to use to track everyone? Bit sad that they lost the contract to Bill Gates 5G vaccines.
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Dec 24, 2020 12:09
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:So what are our actual options for green packaging, in as much as we can either produce them or offset the effects without crippling long term effects on the world? We could use that lab grown meat tech to make flesh sacks that we store cargo in. So after you take out your eggs you can skin and cook the flesh sack too. I suppose for heavier cargo we would need some form of flesh/bone construction for structural integrity. Probably some hair for insulation if the cargo is temperature sensitive.
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Dec 24, 2020 12:10
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When you're a flesh/bone construction with hair full of eggs. https://twitter.com/llewcid/status/1306530293319446528
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Dec 24, 2020 12:15
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Not a single, solitary mention on my Facebook newsfeed about BoJo's triumphant win against the EU, even from those who think he is the most marvellously wonderful caring about the Brits person to ever stride the earth like a colossus. Lots of 'happy Christmas' posts and 'OMG look how high the river is' to 'we've been flooded' from South Wales through Gloucestershire up to somewhere up north vaguely near Norwich I think. I think people have more immediate concerns!
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Dec 24, 2020 12:16
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Another one for a first Christmas spent alone this year, I'm kinda looking forward to the new experience in some ways. I haven't seen my family for an entire year now as they live in Norfolk and Grantham, and I'm in Somerset. It's been a strange time for me, it's definitely had an impact on my mental health which was poor in the first place. The weirdest thing for me is that I was slightly relieved to not be travelling and seeing family, which really makes me worry about what kind of recluse I'm turning into. I've always been fairly solitary but anxiety has really exacerbated that process, and lockdowns have been the perfect excuse. I need to try and shake out of it next year, covid willing. I was hoping to get away from home for some camping over the break but the excellent pandemic handling has hosed that as I'll be in tier 3 from the weekend. Anyways that's my little story, the plastic/cardboard chat has been very interesting for someone concerned with waste and packaging but with no real understanding of material differences.
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Dec 24, 2020 12:17
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TACD posted:Oh hey, my partner’s a packaging designer. I have absorbed far more information about cardboard and barcodes than I would have expected to but it is genuinely interesting. I'm happy to answer questions if no-one thinks it's derailing the thread. That other description is pretty accurate, if I have to explain what I do in real life I just go 'I'm the guy who gets no credit for turning designers pretty 2 layer RGB bullshit presentations into a printable reality.'
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Dec 24, 2020 12:19
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Not a single, solitary mention on my Facebook newsfeed about BoJo's triumphant win against the EU, even from those who think he is the most marvellously wonderful caring about the Brits person to ever stride the earth like a colossus. And so the empire died; not in fire, nor in flood... but with a moist fart from Boris's frightened soul.  edit: Any more issues with the local flooding btw?
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Dec 24, 2020 12:19
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Guavanaut posted:Remember when barcodes were the number of the Beast that the UN was going to use to track everyone? Bit sad that they lost the contract to Bill Gates 5G vaccines.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M2khjpOxzc&t=2612s
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Dec 24, 2020 12:22
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Goldskull posted:I'm happy to answer questions if no-one thinks it's derailing the thread. That other description is pretty accurate, if I have to explain what I do in real life I just go 'I'm the guy who gets no credit for turning designers pretty 2 layer RGB bullshit presentations into a printable reality.' I don't think that it's derailing the thread any more than it usually is. There's plenty of space for politics, UK news and the eclectic collection of things that your posts would fit into.
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Dec 24, 2020 12:31
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Just Another Lurker posted:And so the empire died; not in fire, nor in flood... but with a moist fart from Boris's frightened soul. For me personally, it got a bit hairy last night. River rose 3m in 18 hours and was within half a metre of coming over the back wall. So I went and put sandbags against the two rear doors (facing the river) for our block. It peaked around 630am and has been receding since as the rain stopped around 2am ish (takes a while for the water from upstream to pass through). However, some local roads were flooded and a bridge joining the two halves of the town was closed. Other routes completely flooded and a daring rescue this morning of a car caught in flooding in one of the other rivers nearby - the driver had to be airlifted to hospital from hypothermia I think it was. Glad am I that I took out contents insurance a few days ago (this block has never actually flooded yet so I didn't have a difficulty with that), I bought a 'toilet bung' a few weeks ago online (you inflate it and shove it down the bog to stop sewage backfiring up it in a flood - my flat is ground floor level), and I had some of that twin slot shelving put in so all my books are more than 1m above ground (that was the height at which some homes round here got flooded to last Feb) instead of the bookcases I was originally planning.
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Dec 24, 2020 12:32
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Well if everyone else is cool, ask me anything, I'm an artworker. A Senior Creative one at that! I'm off to get some wine but I'll be back in half an hour, fire away about all your 'how is packaging made?' queries.
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Dec 24, 2020 12:36
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https://twitter.com/GuyReuters/status/1342050191973752832
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Dec 24, 2020 12:39
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Goldskull posted:Well if everyone else is cool, ask me anything, I'm an artworker. A Senior Creative one at that! I'm off to get some wine but I'll be back in half an hour, fire away about all your 'how is packaging made?' queries. Do all senior creatives day drink
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Dec 24, 2020 12:40
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Goldskull posted:I'm happy to answer questions if no-one thinks it's derailing the thread. That other description is pretty accurate, if I have to explain what I do in real life I just go 'I'm the guy who gets no credit for turning designers pretty 2 layer RGB bullshit presentations into a printable reality.' You mentioned working on cigarette packaging. I live in Australia where cigarettes are all in plain packaging. What’s your view on that from a design standpoint? It’s an interesting concept to make a product as undesirable as possible through it’s packaging when I imagine your task is usually the opposite.
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Dec 24, 2020 12:46
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Jose posted:Brown Moses sold out to make money which I don't blame him for because I'd probably do the same but be is funded by the US state department I just think "sold out" is a bit harsh - it is not sustainable to do that sort of work without funding.
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Dec 24, 2020 12:46
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https://twitter.com/OxfordDiplomat/status/1341485791680356359?s=20
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Dec 24, 2020 12:48
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Priti Palmerston.Helith posted:I live in Australia where cigarettes are all in plain packaging.
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Dec 24, 2020 12:52
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Ewan posted:I mean... all investigative entities, think-tanks, et al have to get funding from somewhere to pay for staff, rent, equipment, legal fees, etc. And it is natural that an entity that has proven its worth in investigating hostile actors such as Russia will attract funding from those who want more investigations into that world, such as the US gov or those that are associated with US gov. This is a bit like China attacking ASPI for receiving gov funding - of course it receives funding because it is good and does good research! He could have just kept it as an unfunded past time while unemployed or bravely only accepted personal donations to limit any institutional pressures being applied but instead became an state-funded NGO with the compromised politics that requires. Pointing out that our political economy requires a politically motivated party to fund your work doesn't then remove the structural pressures it creates. Treat it like any news source, not automatically illegitimate but ideologically driven in its work.
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Dec 24, 2020 12:55
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Part of the confusion on recycling/sustainability is that there's several things people associate with being "green". Decreased carbon emissions and decreased pollution are the main two - while the current crusade is against single-use plastics... I'd rather a ton of oil gets turned into plastics than it gets burnt and turned into atmospheric CO2. And the lightness on plastics - one of the reasons they are used so much to begin with - means you need more mass of cardboard or whatever you replace them with, and that might have a higher energy cost to do so. But plastics are undeniably harder to recycle and create more pollution/waste afterwards - they also look uglier when discarded in the enviroment. Which aspect of "green" are you focusing on? Because there's always tradeoffs between different "green" ideals.
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Dec 24, 2020 12:58
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Guavanaut posted:Priti Palmerston. Yet during term time, the underpass near the local comprehensive is choc full of teenagers puffing away at lunchtimes. I just don't get it. Do they still think it makes them look 'big' especially given the cost of cigarettes and given that just about every adult I know who smokes seriously wishes they didn't and repeatedly try to give up?
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Dec 24, 2020 12:59
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namesake posted:He could have just kept it as an unfunded past time while unemployed or bravely only accepted personal donations to limit any institutional pressures being applied but instead became an state-funded NGO with the compromised politics that requires. Bellingcat, like many journalistic organisations, has funding from the open society foundation which ostensibly is diametrically opposed to the values of the state department. When the left is attacking you for being "state department funded" and the right is attacking you for being "soros funded" and basically no one is attacking you for the validity of your content, you're doing one or two things right tbh. jiggerypokery fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Dec 24, 2020 |
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Dec 24, 2020 13:02
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