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https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1342171659982286848?s=20 "mistake" "his manifest error" "It is possible that the prime minister has a different definition of what the phrase means" 144: Number of times per day a British journalist will avoid calling bojo a liar.
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Dec 24, 2020 21:44
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Apraxin posted:
I mean, if the fact that we could follow the US gleefully and zealously into Gulf War II despite being in the EU doesn't convince him that we can be as bloodthirsty as we wish without consequence, I don't know what would. And the fact that EU countries other than us have been involved in all America's wars for decades, and almost all of the EU was aboard GW I and the Afghanistan invasion? Also lmao does he not know what a federation is or is it literally "I love Europe and I want a Federal States of Europe but the idea of some Bundeskanzler saying "Maybe we should make sure there's real evidence before we bomb that country flat for the fourth time?" makes my blood boil"?
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Dec 24, 2020 21:52
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we need to leave the EU because it likes peace, but then rejoin it when it's become the EF with a foreign policy of enthusiastic participation in America's wars
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The problem with voting against the deal for Labour is the question it raises: what’s the better alternative then? The UK isn’t going to negotiate a better deal at this stage, and this deal is better than nothing. I don’t think it’s so bad for Labour. Most remainers have accepted, unhappily, that Brexit is going ahead (I think), so better a deal than no deal, whereas for the leavers Labour is going by the will of the people and voting for a deal that sees us separate from the EU. Abstaining would please neither side.
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Dec 24, 2020 21:58
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I'm fairly certain we're now stuck in a time loop where the government negotiates a lovely deal, but because it's last minute we're supposed to accept the poo poo deal because the alternative is no deal. If I remember correctly the next step is that the deal fails to pass parliament, the EU gives us an extension, then we get a PM who is somehow worse than the last.
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Dec 24, 2020 22:03
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Ms Adequate posted:Also lmao does he not know what a federation is or is it literally "I love Europe and I want a Federal States of Europe but the idea of some Bundeskanzler saying "Maybe we should make sure there's real evidence before we bomb that country flat for the fourth time?" makes my blood boil"?  He either thinks a federation is a loose cooperation of independent (Sovereign!!!!) states - maybe he actually means confederation? - and also actually believes all the 'EUSSR' shite about Brussels being the centre of a authoritarian regime that overwhelms its members and so an actual federation would be an 'improvement' or he's the sort of Brexiter who would have no problem with the EU if it was HQd in London and was dominated by the UK (see also the related fantasy about reforming the Commonwealth as an EU surrogate...but only the
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Dec 24, 2020 22:09
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I think this is passing - massive majority means you have to be SUPER sure your vote against is counting and as this is Johnson’s ‘massive victory’ any Tory MP who votes against can assume they’re hosed for the foreseeable.
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Dec 24, 2020 22:11
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Red Oktober posted:I think this is passing - massive majority means you have to be SUPER sure your vote against is counting and as this is Johnson’s ‘massive victory’ any Tory MP who votes against can assume they’re hosed for the foreseeable. On the other hand, Funny Timeline.
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Dec 24, 2020 22:12
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I'm fairly certain we're now stuck in a time loop where the government negotiates a lovely deal, but because it's last minute we're supposed to accept the poo poo deal because the alternative is no deal. Or it means brexit and 10 years of boris and his mates
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Dec 24, 2020 22:18
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Putting the specific details of the deal aside, is the press really so shameless as to let Johnson get away with both (1) saying this deal would be very easy to get, don’t worry about it, etc. during the last election; and (2) bigging it up as a huge triumph that only he could have managed some twelve months later?
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Dec 24, 2020 22:23
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You know the answer to this. Recently I’ve come around to the idea that, as an ex-journo, Johnson is one of us, so they really like the idea that this could be them one day, if they really felt like it.
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Dec 24, 2020 22:25
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therattle posted:The problem with voting against the deal for Labour is the question it raises: what’s the better alternative then? The UK isn’t going to negotiate a better deal at this stage, and this deal is better than nothing. I don’t think it’s so bad for Labour. Most remainers have accepted, unhappily, that Brexit is going ahead (I think), so better a deal than no deal, whereas for the leavers Labour is going by the will of the people and voting for a deal that sees us separate from the EU. Abstaining would please neither side. Labour did propose a series of tests about whether they'd support a Brexit deal but since that is now inherently anti-semitic because it was under the Corbyn leadership I guess Starmer has to abandon any idea of the opposition party opposing the government in any significant or vote winning way. Labour in opposition has the luxury of being able to craft an alternative narrative about governance and what principles and structures they should protect regardless of what the government does or fails to do. However this seems to not be grown up sensible opposition that many centrists spent years calling for so now they must vote for the Tories crap Brexit deal.
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Dec 24, 2020 22:25
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TACD posted:Does this keep us safe from the US chlorinated chicken? Nothing for sure but better than no deal I suppose. I think Boris and chums were wanking themselves into a frenzy over their dream scenario of no deal followed by a big carve off for a Trump led US government that made them all rich regardless of the fallout. Biden is hardly Gandhi but he doesn't like Brexit and he definitely doesn't like gung ho Prime Ministers undermining the Good Friday Agreement so Boris did a 'ruh-roh' and a deal happened in the end.
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Dec 24, 2020 22:25
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Red Oktober posted:I think this is passing - massive majority means you have to be SUPER sure your vote against is counting and as this is Johnson’s ‘massive victory’ any Tory MP who votes against can assume they’re hosed for the foreseeable. Um, and also Labour is whipping for it anyway
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Dec 24, 2020 22:29
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namesake posted:Labour did propose a series of tests about whether they'd support a Brexit deal but since that is now inherently anti-semitic because it was under the Corbyn leadership I guess Starmer has to abandon any idea of the opposition party opposing the government in any significant or vote winning way. I hear you on the tests but that was in very different circumstances. The general point about opposition is uncontentious but what would you have Labour do here in this specific instance?
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Dec 24, 2020 22:38
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Looking forward to seeing Keith vote for Brexit, and Corbyn vote against it.
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Dec 24, 2020 22:40
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therattle posted:I hear you on the tests but that was in very different circumstances. The general point about opposition is uncontentious but what would you have Labour do here in this specific instance? abstain? I'm sure starmer remembers how  or at least a free vote
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Dec 24, 2020 22:42
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XMNN posted:abstain? I'm sure starmer remembers how I think abstain pisses off everybody. Free vote makes a lot more sense.
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Dec 24, 2020 22:44
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The idea that Labour have to vote for this because it's better than no deal is ridiculous. The government has a huge majority so if the deal fails it's because they couldn't bring their own MPs on side. This frees the opposition to vote on principle. If it's a bad deal they should explain why and vote against. Starmer has written for every right-wing rag out there since he became leader, so he has the platform. The trouble is he's more interested in avoiding bad headlines than building a position from which to hold the government to account.
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Dec 24, 2020 22:45
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therattle posted:I hear you on the tests but that was in very different circumstances. The general point about opposition is uncontentious but what would you have Labour do here in this specific instance? Well in a general sense is have them stand for something, anything and then use that as a starting point to build policy and support from. There's still millions of UK citizens living in the EU who are now solely depending on those EU states to give them residency rights to allow them to stay there, perhaps the fact that their existence is at risk is reason to oppose the deal? Perhaps international solidarity with EU citizens living here in a similar situation should be a reason to oppose the deal. We're still dependent on some of the worst aspects of EU competition policy without any sort of inclusive or democratically accountable oversight or collaborative development between us going forward. These are all great ethical starting points that Labour now appears to think aren't important or not worth fighting for. They are not performing the necessary principled policy work that builds loyalty and support and that's disastrous for a political party.
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Dec 24, 2020 22:47
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Hbomber enunciating the 't' in "Christmas" is driving me completely around the bend
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Dec 24, 2020 22:55
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https://twitter.com/colinrtalbot/status/1341805817566285829?s=19 These people are absolutely deranged
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Dec 24, 2020 22:56
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therattle posted:I hear you on the tests but that was in very different circumstances. The general point about opposition is uncontentious but what would you have Labour do here in this specific instance? Absolutely vote against it. It's going to pass anyway because the Tories have a monster majority so Labour should say it's a poo poo deal and vote against. When it all goes disastrously wrong they need to be able to pin it unequivocally on the Tories as being at fault.
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Dec 24, 2020 22:57
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The only fights Labour have actively taken up since last Xmas have been against it's own members and the unions. I can't believe there are people still paying a membership fee for the privilege to be told 'gently caress off scum' at every turn. What did Keir say about Brexit in his leadership bid? A more cyncial man might suggest Keir 'Mr.Remain' Starmer held a strongly Remain position for as long as it was a useful way to outflank Corbyn and drive a wedge between him and the membership.
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Dec 24, 2020 23:07
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Lungboy posted:Absolutely vote against it. It's going to pass anyway because the Tories have a monster majority so Labour should say it's a poo poo deal and vote against. When it all goes disastrously wrong they need to be able to pin it unequivocally on the Tories as being at fault. Absolutely. The default position of the opposition needs to be, "gently caress your poo poo, government" - they should only vote with the government in exceptional circumstances. When the government is a Tory one, this goes a hundred-fold.
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Dec 24, 2020 23:33
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:https://twitter.com/sensiblehuman96/status/1342155454458327046?s=20 Remainers are permanently mugging themselves by living in a fantasy world the last 4 years
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Dec 24, 2020 23:33
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There was once a dream that was a United Ireland. You could only whisper it. Anything more than a whisper and it would vanish... it was so fragile. It's coming in 2024 now lads
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Dec 24, 2020 23:52
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ah, now finally i can start my rejoin party
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Dec 24, 2020 23:53
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Gort posted:they should only vote with the government in exceptional circumstances ...such as, say, a vote to confirm the final shape of some important constitutional change that was previously approved by a referendum?
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Dec 24, 2020 23:58
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Remainers are just mugs
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Dec 25, 2020 00:08
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Merry Christmas you bastards.
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Dec 25, 2020 00:09
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Failed Imagineer posted:There was once a dream that was a United Ireland. You could only whisper it. Anything more than a whisper and it would vanish... it was so fragile. You think it'll take that long? I mean NI is now de facto its own EU member state.
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Dec 25, 2020 00:11
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feedmegin posted:You think it'll take that long? It's not important what I think, I trust Lt. Cmdr. Data implicitly
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Dec 25, 2020 00:12
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feedmegin posted:You think it'll take that long? I mean NI is now de facto its own EU member state. Everyone been blaming the poor old Russians as usual but Brexit was masterminded by the RA 
crispix fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Dec 25, 2020 |
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Dec 25, 2020 00:16
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Continuity NIP posted:Remainers are just mugs just reading about the stuff going on at the people’s vote, it just seems that having the same well connected liberals run these things is a recipe for disaster
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Dec 25, 2020 00:19
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crispix posted:Everyone been blaming the poor old Russians as usual but Brexit was masterminded by the RA
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Dec 25, 2020 00:20
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Failed Imagineer posted:There was once a dream that was a United Ireland. You could only whisper it. Anything more than a whisper and it would vanish... it was so fragile. The Prophecy does say that when it happens the two Mr. Taytos will meet at the former boarder and will fight until only one remains. 
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Dec 25, 2020 00:27
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The Question IRL posted:The Prophecy does say that when it happens the two Mr. Taytos will meet at the former boarder and will fight until only one remains. https://twitter.com/IanFayArt/status/1314562853022633990?s=19
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Dec 25, 2020 00:33
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Southern Mr Tayto is a creepy bastard 
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Dec 25, 2020 00:35
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Free Stayto is real and he is my friend
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Dec 25, 2020 00:36
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40 years in Ireland, north and south, and today I learn there are two Mr Tayto 
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