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Jakabite posted:Yeah it absolutely isn’t 9 billion. Seem to remember it being well under a billion The wiki says it’s 10 billion and cites book 2 chapter 15 as a source. Earth was 30 billion pre-Marcos. The belt is like 100 million and a rounding error in the system’s population scattered among different micro jurisdictions. Drone Jett fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Dec 25, 2020 |
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Dec 25, 2020 16:11
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No poo poo. That’s real surprising.
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Dec 25, 2020 16:14
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Jakabite posted:No poo poo. That’s real surprising. Where the show gives population numbers (e.g. Eros) they’ve brought them down by a factor of 10-20 vs the books.
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Dec 25, 2020 16:16
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Grand Fromage posted:Mars has nine billion people spread across the whole planet. You'd need thousands. Probably fewer than Earth since you could destroy all the life support systems and let the planet kill everyone. I think you’d need more, because a few big ones on Earth can kick up enough stuff to kill all the farmland and solar cells and starve everyone, but presumably Mars has a lot less atmospheric agriculture vs distributed vat/greenhouse food production and power from fusion rather than solar.
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Dec 25, 2020 16:24
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Babe Magnet posted:to be fair do you think a (in-fiction) charismatic militant cult-leader like Marco would surround himself with anyone but True Believers who know he would instantly space anyone who says something cross about his super cool plan to own the inners. Marco isn't really Belter Osama bin Laden. He's Belter Terrorist Donald Trump. "Yes, this was actually my plan this whole time because I am an awesome stable genius!"
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Dec 25, 2020 16:31
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Jakabite posted:Yeah it absolutely isn’t 9 billion. Seem to remember it being well under a billion https://expanse.fandom.com/wiki/Mars 4 billion in the books, 9 billion in the show Drone Jett posted:Where the show gives population numbers (e.g. Eros) they’ve brought them down by a factor of 10-20 vs the books. That's not true.
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Dec 25, 2020 18:04
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Mu Zeta posted:I believe his speech. It sounds like his main goal was to weaken the leadership of Earth, Mars, OPA while carrying out the largest terrorist attack. I don't know how big his navy is but he sounds pretty confident with the protomolecule as backup. I really don't think he meant to wipe the entire planet. None of the other belters on his ship looked all that upset. They were all cheering. If his goal was decapitation, why didn't he target the Bush shipyards on Luna? You know, the backbone of the UNN? Probably because his goal isn't a campaign against military and government targets, it's just genocide.
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Dec 25, 2020 18:16
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Drone Jett posted:I think you’d need more, because a few big ones on Earth can kick up enough stuff to kill all the farmland and solar cells and starve everyone, but presumably Mars has a lot less atmospheric agriculture vs distributed vat/greenhouse food production and power from fusion rather than solar. Whether nuclear winter can happen is still hotly debated. Even the supporting models assume the detonation of the entire global nuclear arsenal in a single salvo, which would lower global temperatures but not wipe out the ecosphere or blot out the sun or anything. It wouldn't be great, not saying that, but to actually wipe out the population of Earth with nukes is a titanic task that would likely require far more than have ever been built. Also to kick up stuff, you need ground detonations--a real nuclear war would be almost entirely air bursts, which produce little fallout. You'd have to be trying intentionally to fill the atmosphere with dust. The nukes themselves won't do it, post-detonation fires are the big unknown factor and why nobody knows if it's possible. If the worst case models are correct, you'd still need a bunch of nukes in the right places though. A few aren't going to do anything. And we know you can set off nukes without destroying the environment, around 2000 have been detonated already. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Dec 25, 2020 |
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Dec 25, 2020 18:49
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Nuclear winter isn't from direct fallout and doesn't require ground detonations, it's a result of the resulting continent-wide firestorms filling the atmosphere with smoke. Look at what some wildfires do to the sky, now imagine every forest across multiple continents was burning.
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Dec 25, 2020 19:45
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Wheeee posted:Nuclear winter isn't from direct fallout and doesn't require ground detonations, it's a result of the resulting continent-wide firestorms filling the atmosphere with smoke. As I said, this is the point of controversy. There is no direct evidence whether or not this would happen (fortunately) and modeling does not agree. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Dec 25, 2020 |
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Dec 25, 2020 20:24
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What's Dawes up to during all this? Him and Fred were on better and better terms as they became the defacto figure heads of the new belter state. Has his faction thrown in with the Free navy?
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Dec 25, 2020 21:13
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Dawes died after Chernobyl
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Dec 25, 2020 21:16
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Baronjutter posted:What's Dawes up to during all this? Him and Fred were on better and better terms as they became the defacto figure heads of the new belter state. Has his faction thrown in with the Free navy? The show has been silent on what Dawes is currently up to.
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Dec 25, 2020 21:17
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Fred mentioned Dawes confirming that the raid on the lab where Cortazar was abducted did happen, so evidently he's been off somewhere running his own show and quietly compiling information on what the protomolecule is capable of among other things.
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Dec 25, 2020 21:27
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Man, re-watched the ep. I like the speculation here in this thread that the pro-militarist faction on Mars is doing a coup. I hadn't made that jump and yep, that makes complete sense. Also awesome that the militarist faction appears to be straight up giving MCRN warships to belters now, apparently. Also, Inaros's plan finally makes more sense. At the end of last season I was thinking it was insanity to drop rocks, not because of the mass death, but because I didn't see it getting him what he wants. Earth at least on the show is still presented as militarily strong enough to wipe out the Belt if they wanted to, while Mars was shown to be mothballing some of their fleet. Even with rocks dropped, Earth would still surely have the military assets left to annihilate the belt. However, with the combined threat of the protomolecule and Martian allies, Marcos does seem to have some actual wind in his sails. Although, the protomolecule portion of the plan just came into his hands as the first rocks were hitting, so the deployment Fred's one small sample of protomolecule to be able to destroy all of Earth or Mars is a bit of a bluff on his part. Dozens of stealth hybrid missiles launched at Mars weren't able to do the job, so Marcos is semi-credible but also bluffing strong. Also, I don't see how we can assume the Belt now has the only sample. I assume Mao's corporation still has samples, and there's gotta still be loads of the stuff down on Venus in some form or another. Anyhow, freakin' great ep.
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Dec 25, 2020 21:58
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Grand Fromage posted:Whether nuclear winter can happen is still hotly debated. Even the supporting models assume the detonation of the entire global nuclear arsenal in a single salvo, which would lower global temperatures but not wipe out the ecosphere or blot out the sun or anything. It wouldn't be great, not saying that, but to actually wipe out the population of Earth with nukes is a titanic task that would likely require far more than have ever been built. Cool, tell it to the dinosaurs, they’ll be glad to know they’re not extinct or at least that it wasn’t a mega asteroid that did it.
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Dec 25, 2020 22:00
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CLAM DOWN posted:That's not true. Eros in the books has a 1-2 million population. In the show it flashed up 150k, I think.
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Dec 25, 2020 22:01
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I just started watching the first season again, forgot that miller’s hand terminal had a cracked screen. Such a nice little detail.
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Dec 25, 2020 22:03
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gfarrell80 posted:Also, I don't see how we can assume the Belt now has the only sample. I assume Mao's corporation still has samples, and there's gotta still be loads of the stuff down on Venus in some form or another. Mao's assets were all seized after Io, and all the protomolecule on Venus made the ring so all of it has lifted off into space.
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Dec 25, 2020 22:06
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Drone Jett posted:Cool, tell it to the dinosaurs, they’ll be glad to know they’re not extinct or at least that it wasn’t a mega asteroid that did it. The K-T impact is estimated at ~100 teratons. At peak stockpile, the world had ~40 gigatons of nukes. So the nuclear arsenal was about 0.0004% the explosive power of the Chicxulub asteroid. e: why am I arguing on the internet instead of eating cookies, time to re-prioritize Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Dec 25, 2020 |
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Dec 25, 2020 22:12
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Defiance Industries posted:Mao's assets were all seized after Io, and all the protomolecule on Venus made the ring so all of it has lifted off into space. Chemical weapons have been supposedly illegal for a long time, yet we and many nations still have stockpiles. Mao's stuff getting seized to all his protomolecule samples being destroyed is quite a long step. Pretty sure elements in the UN state would see the wisdom of keeping a couple samples handy for study. Also the idea that the Venus site would being totally clean is a bit of a stretch in my imagination.
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Dec 25, 2020 22:16
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At least regarding Venus- no reason for the protomolecule to leave any of itself behind. It had a mission to carry out and it went and did it.
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Dec 25, 2020 22:23
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dyzzy posted:At least regarding Venus- no reason for the protomolecule to leave any of itself behind. It had a mission to carry out and it went and did it. If my orders are to build ring gates, I'd leave a foothold in a place where there are apparently resources in place to provide the materials for a ring gate (Venus), in case the 1st built ring gate gets compromised somehow. edit- it is just a minor nerd gripe though, I can still suspend my disbelief.
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Dec 25, 2020 22:27
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gfarrell80 posted:If my orders are to build ring gates, I'd leave a foothold in a place where there are apparently resources in place to provide the materials for a ring gate (Venus), in case the 1st built ring gate gets compromised somehow. 
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Dec 25, 2020 22:28
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gfarrell80 posted:If my orders are to build ring gates, I'd leave a foothold in a place where there are apparently resources in place to provide the materials for a ring gate (Venus), in case the 1st built ring gate gets compromised somehow. You are ascribing a level of intelligence to it which it does not possess. The protomolecule isn't about building a stable engineering plan for mass production of ring gates. It builds one and does not want to be distracted by anything. Remember what Katoa says in season 2, he just talks about the work, doing the work and how you can't stop the work. There's no other concern except for building a ring and turning it on.
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Dec 25, 2020 22:36
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I sure hope that Marco gets owned and replaced by Dawes soon because whether it's the actor, the writing, the direction, or a combination thereof, Marco is a dogshit character who's not selling it at all. Most of this show is so well done, and well cast, that weaknesses like Bobbie and Marco really stick out.
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Dec 25, 2020 23:43
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Wheeee posted:I sure hope that Marco gets owned and replaced by Dawes soon because whether it's the actor, the writing, the direction, or a combination thereof, Marco is a dogshit character who's not selling it at all. I remember thinking the same thing about Diogo. Something about those two make me want to smack them and tell them to grow up and stop acting like smug little shits. I'm inclined to think it's the characters because I don't know the actors from anything else.
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Dec 25, 2020 23:52
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What's with all the belter accents all sounding like low effort south African impressions lately? It seems like Drummer is the only character putting any effort into it anymore. Everyone just sounds Leo DiCaprio in Blood Diamond the last couple seasons.
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Dec 25, 2020 23:59
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TraderStav posted:The show has been silent on what Dawes is currently up to. He's just off screen, laughing too. Im exactly gigasecond old. gently caress me [/quote] Nice.
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Dec 26, 2020 00:01
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Wheeee posted:that weaknesses like Bobbie You think... Bobbie is a casting weakness? Or just a writing weakness? I'll maybe give you the latter since the scope of what's currently going on is well beyond the character compared to the other main cast members, but Frankie Adams is probably the most well-cast character of the bunch.
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Dec 26, 2020 00:08
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Yeah just cos that Mouse story wasn’t amazingly written or delivered doesn’t take away from how great the rest of her performance has been.
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Dec 26, 2020 00:10
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*slowly taps gif of her eating cucumber sandwiches*
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Dec 26, 2020 00:12
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Babe Magnet posted:also keep in mind they still actually hosed up the first rock, that's why they had to attack that research station after all. It was a poo poo plan poorly-to-decently executed but worked out well enough to use the "I had to leave some of you alive so there would be someone left to contemplate how deep and clever I am" excuse. it's space 9/11
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Dec 26, 2020 00:25
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Bobbie has had some ups and downs, she can be good but especially early on was wooden and unconvincing. Again most recently, it's not the actor's fault but she was awful in ep5. I haven't read the books and don't care about how much the cast members align with the book versions in appearance and the like.
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Dec 26, 2020 00:36
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Wheeee posted:Bobbie has had some ups and downs, she can be good but especially early on was wooden and unconvincing. Again most recently, it's not the actor's fault but she was awful in ep5. As I understand it if Bobbie "aligned" with her character's looks in the books, she'd be a ten foot tall 500 pound supermodel who was CGI
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Dec 26, 2020 00:39
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Everyone posted:As I understand it if Bobbie "aligned" with her character's looks in the books, she'd be a ten foot tall 500 pound supermodel who was CGI Yes exactly, she’s pretty accurate
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Dec 26, 2020 00:40
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Wheeee posted:I sure hope that Marco gets owned and replaced by Dawes soon because whether it's the actor, the writing, the direction, or a combination thereof, Marco is a dogshit character who's not selling it at all. I don't love Marco's character he's not a fun bad guy and Naomi's plot with him could be stronger but she's overall a miss with it and I'm going to have to assume that's related to the pen and paper game and failing some rolls. She just falls so flat on her face over it. Marco exists as a hook for Naomi and so far she has failed to capitalize on it.
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Dec 26, 2020 00:51
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Everyone posted:As I understand it if Bobbie "aligned" with her character's looks in the books, she'd be a ten foot tall 500 pound supermodel who was CGI Horny is prohibited
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Dec 26, 2020 00:52
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Mike the TV posted:Horny is prohibited I don't know what that means. My thing is "Oh thank Jesus they went with a talented actual human woman who could inhabit the role instead of trying to translate the character directly from the page as described."
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Dec 26, 2020 00:56
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Martians aren't 10ft tall, that's Belters. And even then I think 10ft is on the high side especially for the women. Naomi is around 7ft tall.
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Dec 26, 2020 01:00
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