Livestock Trading Thread: Baa or better

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Livestock Trading Thread: Baa or better

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DoubleT2172: Sep 24, 2007

Harvest those losses to save on taxes!

# ? Dec 26, 2020 21:43

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# ? May 21, 2024 00:35

Josh Lyman: May 24, 2009

human garbage bag posted:

Question about selling stocks and taxes.

Let's say I have $1000 and I invest it in a stock. After one month the stock price doubles and I sell it all for $2000, for a $1000 profit. It would be a short-term gain so I would pay regular income tax on it, and let's say in my tax bracket I pay 50% tax on it. So I'm left with $1500. Then I immediately buy the same stock again with my $1500, and after another month the stock price doubles again, and I sell it all for $3000. That's a $1500 profit, so after taxes I'm left with $1500 + .5*$1500 = $2250.

However, if I had never sold the stock after one month and just held it for two months, I would have sold for $4000 after two months, for a $3000 profit. $4000 - .5*$3000 = $2500, so I'm left with more money than in the previous scenario.

Are my calculations correct? Is selling often less tax efficient?

Your tax calculation is correct but your setup is flawed because in the first scenario, you've assessed taxes partway through. The "correct" first scenario is to buy at $1000 and sell at $2000, then rebuy at $2000 and sell at $4000. In this case, the tax liability is the same vs buy at $1000 and sell at $4000.

# ? Dec 26, 2020 21:50

Eyes Only: May 20, 2008; Do not attempt to adjust your set.

human garbage bag posted:

Is selling often less tax efficient?

Yes.

# ? Dec 26, 2020 22:04

Oscar Wild: Apr 11, 2006; It's good to be a G

Sand Monster posted:

Just curious, why does a wash sale apply in this person's example? He didn't sell for a loss in any of the hypothetical scenarios.

Whoops, yeah, you're right, doesn't really come into play with gains.

# ? Dec 26, 2020 22:43

Baddog: May 12, 2001

drunken officeparty posted:

If I have only lost money in total and only on options, can I just ignore it on my taxes and pretend it never happened

You can write off 3k in losses a year against your income, and carryover any excess.

# ? Dec 26, 2020 23:18

ellic: Apr 28, 2009; I never asked for this; Grimey Drawer

human garbage bag posted:

Question about selling stocks and taxes.

Let's say I have $1000 and I invest it in a stock. After one month the stock price doubles and I sell it all for $2000, for a $1000 profit. It would be a short-term gain so I would pay regular income tax on it, and let's say in my tax bracket I pay 50% tax on it. So I'm left with $1500. Then I immediately buy the same stock again with my $1500, and after another month the stock price doubles again, and I sell it all for $3000. That's a $1500 profit, so after taxes I'm left with $1500 + .5*$1500 = $2250.

However, if I had never sold the stock after one month and just held it for two months, I would have sold for $4000 after two months, for a $3000 profit. $4000 - .5*$3000 = $2500, so I'm left with more money than in the previous scenario.

Are my calculations correct? Is selling often less tax efficient?

Sorry, I'm dumb and not a tax expert. Do you pay taxes instantly each time you sell stock?
I don't understand how you would have less capital in your scenario for a second trade because you said you immediately put the money back in (meaning still within the same tax season).
So taxes wouldn't have been taken yet, right? Am I missing something?
I understood short term taxation is inefficient, but only relative to the better percentage advantage the long terms trades are made against.

I could see how your math works if you made each trade in separate tax years (or quarters if your a business that pays quarterly).

Again, dumb goon here - I don't know if what I said is correct, just what I understand it to be.
I would appreciate a smart goon's insight on this.

# ? Dec 27, 2020 07:26

human garbage bag: Jan 8, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Josh Lyman posted:

Your tax calculation is correct but your setup is flawed because in the first scenario, you've assessed taxes partway through. The "correct" first scenario is to buy at $1000 and sell at $2000, then rebuy at $2000 and sell at $4000. In this case, the tax liability is the same vs buy at $1000 and sell at $4000.

Thanks, that makes sense. I only pay taxes on the net profit for the quarter.

# ? Dec 27, 2020 08:45

Sand Monster: Apr 13, 2008

ellic posted:

Sorry, I'm dumb and not a tax expert. Do you pay taxes instantly each time you sell stock?
I don't understand how you would have less capital in your scenario for a second trade because you said you immediately put the money back in (meaning still within the same tax season).
So taxes wouldn't have been taken yet, right? Am I missing something?

No, you don't pay it instantly. I think he's approaching it as if he has set aside the money for taxes that will be paid later on. He has less capital since he's ear marked that tax money, though he still physically has it available to invest if he wanted.

# ? Dec 27, 2020 15:06

FistEnergy: Nov 3, 2000; DAY CREW: WORKING HARD; Fun Shoe

I've had a good year of trading, and this was my first time leaving the safety of my managed 401k. I'm going to call TDA and Fidelity tomorrow morning so I can set up Roth IRA accounts with the maximum 6k per account, peeled off from my existing accounts, then call back next week to add another 6k per account for 2021. Wish I'd done it years ago.

# ? Dec 27, 2020 21:23

FreelanceSocialist: Nov 19, 2002

The maximum contribution is across all accounts not per account.

# ? Dec 27, 2020 23:38

Rolo: Nov 16, 2005; Hmm, what have we here?

That sounds like something someone jealous of my 16 HSA�s would say.

# ? Dec 28, 2020 00:06

tangy yet delightful: Sep 13, 2005

I was assuming Fist Energy had a partner but if not then yeah only one Roth limit per person per year.

# ? Dec 28, 2020 00:07

Cacafuego: Jul 22, 2007

This is the first I�ve seen of someone confidently saying that there will be a market crash of significant value - what are the thread�s thoughts regarding this? Just a gold bug, or doomsayer, or otherwise?

Stock market crash: Expert predicts 75% drop in early 2021, $10K gold - Business Insider

quote:

By many indications, and according to a majority on Wall Street, equity markets appear ripe for gains heading into the new year.

David Hunter doesn't disagree with that. He just doesn't believe the gains will last long.

Hunter, the chief macro strategist at Contrarian Macro Advisors and 47-year market veteran, says the S&P 500 will continue to rise to 4,500 into early 2021, but will turn sour shortly thereafter in what will be the beginning of a market crash of "biblical" proportions � 75% from current S&P 500 levels, or 80% from 4,500.

"We're in the final stage of an equity melt-up," Hunter said to Crux Investor's Matthew Gordon during a video discussion posted on December 10. "I've been on the record many times saying that when this top hits � and I think that's in the next few months � it will be a high water mark that will probably stand for decades."

"I don't see this ending well," he continued. "2021, probably not initially, not the first quarter, but I think as you go through the year, you're going to see a global bust, the likes of which will be worse than anything we've experienced in the post WW2 era."

Hunter said the crash will be the end of a 38-year secular bull market and an extension of the economic bust that began in March this year.

The catalysts for a potential sell-off and bust include things like a lack of stimulus, global debt buildup, or a misstep from central-banks, Hunter said earlier this year.

He said this downturn would lead to a period of significant deflation, which would then trigger an enormous policy response from central banks, with the Federal Reserve increasing the money supply to more than $20 trillion from current levels of about $7 trillion.

...

# ? Dec 28, 2020 02:30

Bored As Fuck: Jan 1, 2006; Can't post for 4 hours!; Fun Shoe

If Biden doesn't get a third stimulus passed due to GOP obstruction, yeah, I could see a downturn for sure.

# ? Dec 28, 2020 02:36

GoGoGadgetChris: Mar 18, 2010; i powder a
granite monument
in a soundless flash

showering the grass
with molten drops of
its gold inlay

sending smoking
chips of stone
skipping into the fog

Cacafuego posted:

This is the first I�ve seen of someone confidently saying that there will be a market crash of significant value -

The first... today? This evening??

The reason these predictions are made on an hourly basis is that there's no penalty for being wrong, and if you're right even once, you're trotted out as an expert for the next market cycle.

He might be right tho, although the specific numbers and dates could be different.

# ? Dec 28, 2020 02:39

Josh Lyman: May 24, 2009

Cacafuego posted:

This is the first I�ve seen of someone confidently saying that there will be a market crash of significant value - what are the thread�s thoughts regarding this? Just a gold bug, or doomsayer, or otherwise?

Stock market crash: Expert predicts 75% drop in early 2021, $10K gold - Business Insider

38 year bull market? What does he call the dot com bust and 2008 financial crisis?

# ? Dec 28, 2020 02:39

Fate Accomplice: Nov 30, 2006

the article posted:

Hunter said the crash will be the end of a 38-year secular bull market and an extension of the economic bust that began in March this year.

what does this person mean by "secular" in this context?

# ? Dec 28, 2020 02:41

FistEnergy: Nov 3, 2000; DAY CREW: WORKING HARD; Fun Shoe

tangy yet delightful posted:

I was assuming Fist Energy had a partner but if not then yeah only one Roth limit per person per year.

Oh ok thanks. 6k total.

# ? Dec 28, 2020 02:44

Cacafuego: Jul 22, 2007

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

The first... today? This evening??

The reason these predictions are made on an hourly basis is that there's no penalty for being wrong, and if you're right even once, you're trotted out as an expert for the next market cycle.

He might be right tho, although the specific numbers and dates could be different.

There�s plenty of �rahhh, market will crash soon!� stuff out there, but this is the first I�ve seen that says it�ll drop by 75%. I always expect a drop, but that seems extreme.

# ? Dec 28, 2020 02:57

UnfurledSails: Sep 1, 2011

If you have been ignoring the doomsayers long enough you're already up so much that a 75% crash won't even put you in the red lmao

# ? Dec 28, 2020 03:07

GoGoGadgetChris: Mar 18, 2010; i powder a
granite monument
in a soundless flash

showering the grass
with molten drops of
its gold inlay

sending smoking
chips of stone
skipping into the fog

Cacafuego posted:

There�s plenty of �rahhh, market will crash soon!� stuff out there, but this is the first I�ve seen that says it�ll drop by 75%. I always expect a drop, but that seems extreme.

Baby numbers, says I

https://www.learn-to-trade.com/a-day-of-reckoning-are-stocks-gearing-up-for-a-90-stock-market-crash-in-2021/

90% or bust

"But wait", you say, "Why should I trust that article when it's clearly selling something"

# ? Dec 28, 2020 03:08

Cacafuego: Jul 22, 2007

UnfurledSails posted:

If you have been ignoring the doomsayers long enough you're already up so much that a 75% crash won't even put you in the red lmao

Just another opportunity to buy :v:

# ? Dec 28, 2020 03:20

paternity suitor: Aug 2, 2016

Cacafuego posted:

There�s plenty of �rahhh, market will crash soon!� stuff out there, but this is the first I�ve seen that says it�ll drop by 75%. I always expect a drop, but that seems extreme.

Oh yeah? I am predicting a 94% drop. Now that is a serious number!

# ? Dec 28, 2020 03:40

flowinprose: Sep 11, 2001; Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Josh Lyman posted:

38 year bull market? What does he call the dot com bust and 2008 financial crisis?

Just blips on the overall trend.

https://twitter.com/NorthmanTrader/status/1341487022553358337/photo/1

# ? Dec 28, 2020 03:55

Josh Lyman: May 24, 2009

I mean if you want to draw lines, the Dow has been in a bull run since literally forever :v:

Josh Lyman fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Dec 28, 2020

# ? Dec 28, 2020 04:07

4/20 NEVER FORGET: Dec 2, 2002; NEVER FORGET OK; Fun Shoe

as long as they keep that money printer goin brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, number go up

# ? Dec 28, 2020 04:14

Josh Lyman: May 24, 2009

flowinprose posted:

Just blips on the overall trend.

https://twitter.com/NorthmanTrader/status/1341487022553358337/photo/1

Lol the first reply is this dumb motherfucker who�s apparently a real estate investor? He has WASP written all over

https://twitter.com/jcody_schmitt/status/1341504278138118145?s=21

# ? Dec 28, 2020 04:20

XYZAB: Jun 29, 2003; HNNNNNGG!!

Is anybody else gaming the poo poo out of SPAC warrants here? gently caress the common shares, warrants are where all the leverage is. Buy as close to the $1.00 NAV and watch it go 300% or more in the same timespan the common only goes from $10 to $13. Buy in bulk with limit orders at the low end of the bid/ask spread, and sell with limit orders way up on the high side to burn anyone buying with market orders. I have no interest in holding long term, this is purely a money play. Currently holding FUSE and AVAN warrants and I've noticed a lot of hype going into FUSE on Reddit this weekend with FOMO buyers expressing interest in getting in during the premarket tomorrow morning, so I might see if I can't get away with selling some at premarket open at a stupid high sell limit of like 300% of what I paid just to see if they get filled or not.

# ? Dec 28, 2020 06:03

UnfurledSails: Sep 1, 2011

I want to look at the recent drop in BABA but I'm wearing this seatbelt that says "NO CHINA STOCKS" on it.

# ? Dec 28, 2020 06:28

Inept: Jul 8, 2003

flowinprose posted:

Just blips on the overall trend.

but this time is different because

# ? Dec 28, 2020 07:03

FistEnergy: Nov 3, 2000; DAY CREW: WORKING HARD; Fun Shoe

Handen posted:

Is anybody else gaming the poo poo out of SPAC warrants here? gently caress the common shares, warrants are where all the leverage is. Buy as close to the $1.00 NAV and watch it go 300% or more in the same timespan the common only goes from $10 to $13. Buy in bulk with limit orders at the low end of the bid/ask spread, and sell with limit orders way up on the high side to burn anyone buying with market orders. I have no interest in holding long term, this is purely a money play. Currently holding FUSE and AVAN warrants and I've noticed a lot of hype going into FUSE on Reddit this weekend with FOMO buyers expressing interest in getting in during the premarket tomorrow morning, so I might see if I can't get away with selling some at premarket open at a stupid high sell limit of like 300% of what I paid just to see if they get filled or not.

I mostly play commons because warrant prices have mostly been stupid for the last 1-2 months as SPACs have grown in popularity. But sure, if you can get them for 1.00-1.50 go hog wild. Just be aware there's greater volatility and a nonzero chance of going busto.

# ? Dec 28, 2020 07:07

AHH F/UGH: May 25, 2002

Yeah the SPAC hype train is reaching euphoric levels right now and once a lot of these start losing half of their value and dropping to $5 overnight once the mergers are complete, people will back off and premiums will normalize.

# ? Dec 28, 2020 07:25

drunken officeparty: Aug 23, 2006

When I first downloaded robinhood early this year Bitcoin was at $8000. I ignored it because bitcoin, but now I�m feeling like I�m back in 2011 making fun of Atlas and other teenagers saying how Libertarian Coin would crumble the idea of fiat currency

# ? Dec 28, 2020 13:43

DoubleT2172: Sep 24, 2007

drunken officeparty posted:

When I first downloaded robinhood early this year Bitcoin was at $8000. I ignored it because bitcoin, but now I�m feeling like I�m back in 2011 making fun of Atlas and other teenagers saying how Libertarian Coin would crumble the idea of fiat currency

Could you buy drugs online with Libertarian Coin? This is very important for my DD on if Bitcoin should be touched or not

# ? Dec 28, 2020 13:54

Skunkduster: Jul 15, 2005

gay picnic defence posted:

Sometimes the cost base will be reset when there�s a takeover, you should be able to find something online that details the tax effects of this particular corporate action. If the new cost base is a % of your original cost base then you might have to make do with taking the average price of the period you think you bought the original shares.

I�m in a completely different jurisdiction but our taxmen are pretty understanding when you�ve got some dementia riddled old guy who bought shares in the early 90s, has no records or recollection of the purchase and you�re forced to make an educated guess at what the cost base might be.

Thanks. My taxes have always been pretty simple, so I have used TurboTax for years, but I think I'm going to a tax preparer with this one.

# ? Dec 28, 2020 14:42

pixaal: Jan 8, 2004; All ice cream is now for all beings, no matter how many legs.

I don't believe tax prep sheets are standardized by broker either so how easy it is is going to be either up to your records or how well your broker provides you the tax info. Like my broker includes any trades that were Wash Rules and notes them and shows all related trades. I don't believe they have to.

# ? Dec 28, 2020 14:46

Flawless Victory: Dec 28, 2020; by Cyrano4747

drunken officeparty posted:

When I first downloaded robinhood early this year Bitcoin was at $8000. I ignored it because bitcoin, but now I�m feeling like I�m back in 2011 making fun of Atlas and other teenagers saying how Libertarian Coin would crumble the idea of fiat currency

The beauty of it is that it's not too late! Bitcoin will grow another 100 fold from here, and you can ride those gains to riches just like I did! The only thing stopping you is you!

# ? Dec 28, 2020 15:39

Rolo: Nov 16, 2005; Hmm, what have we here?

I regret selling THCB too early and I�m trying not to make the same mistake with GIK now that it�s going up. Are there any updates on their merger? Is it typical to sell just before a SPAC merger or hold?

# ? Dec 28, 2020 16:17

XYZAB: Jun 29, 2003; HNNNNNGG!!

Rolo posted:

I regret selling THCB too early �� Is it typical to sell just before a SPAC merger or hold?

No regrets. If you made a profit, you made a profit. Nobody ever goes broke making a profit, even if it seems like you lost out by selling before it went higher. I would at least seriously consider locking in SOME profit before merge, or setting a trailing stop loss order of a percentage you're comfortable losing a few days in advance before the ticker changes. When HCAC switched to GOEV I was locked out of trading for a day while TD got its poo poo together, didn't set a trailing stop loss, watched it hit $24 up from my $18 average and couldn't do a drat thing about it. Since then GOEV has been on a slow decline and I sold completely around $19.50. QS, NKLA, DKNG and a few EV/LiDAR plays really took off post-merger, but the general trend is for SPACs to start a slow bleed-out after a merge.

In related news I made out like a loving bandit on FUSE warrants this morning holy gently caress.

# ? Dec 28, 2020 18:18

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# ? May 21, 2024 00:35

FistEnergy: Nov 3, 2000; DAY CREW: WORKING HARD; Fun Shoe

Rolo posted:

I regret selling THCB too early and I’m trying not to make the same mistake with GIK now that it’s going up. Are there any updates on their merger? Is it typical to sell just before a SPAC merger or hold?

I always sell before merger. There's a ton of examples of new tickers crashing when everyone cashes out. There's no longer a price floor, and everyone wants to lock in their gains.

# ? Dec 28, 2020 19:07

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Livestock Trading Thread: Baa or better

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