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some nice demonstrations and history of something you might be interested in but never have thought about : how early Europeans made their pottery? Arranged in approximately chronological order https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrI1LJbKIvk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rZJWDYjbdc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-uQUWPyPys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJN4z0hXFwk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbCce1kPU90
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Dec 28, 2020 05:57
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I've noticed more and more museums, organizations, etc. using 3d scanned objects viewable online as a way to reach the public. I'm really curious if anyone in the thread can talk about the role that 3d scanning plays into historiography/archaeology now in general? Obviously it's not the same as seeing the object or place in real life, but a few years ago I was able to experience some 3d scanned greek ruins in a friends htc vive and it felt like magic.
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Dec 28, 2020 10:39
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Dalael posted:Since you guys are talking about Pompei, i'm just going to leave this here. A great 4k video of pompei for those who probably won't be able to go in their lifetimes. Other than the first 2 min where the guy explains the video, it's a silent video. No music, no comments just a nice long walk in the ruins in 4k. The video is 5h long but there are timestamps. I spent 5 hours walking it this past September and it wasn’t enough. Thanks for finding this. Much better than my random photos of interesting points.
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Dec 28, 2020 11:15
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Tip for anyone visiting: The cheaper audio guides from outside the entrance is a complete ripoff, they've just stolen the audio from a video tour. Some of the audio clips were just music, presumably accompanied by some interesting text based facts on a 90s VHS.
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Dec 28, 2020 16:52
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Kanine posted:I've noticed more and more museums, organizations, etc. using 3d scanned objects viewable online as a way to reach the public. What in particular are you curious about, I haven't used/done it myself but I have with peojects or had friends who have been somewhat heavily involved with it. It's rapidly growing and being used more and more when budget and resources allow, at least in my experince. There are tons of benefits (preservation, presentation, access, etc) that a well done scan can provide.
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Dec 28, 2020 18:25
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LingcodKilla posted:I spent 5 hours walking it this past September and it wasn’t enough. Thanks for finding this. Much better than my random photos of interesting points. If you're interested, this guy has many similar videos all over the world. He's walked through the ruins of Domitian's palace, the Roman Forum, Cairo, Herculanum, Positano, Venice, Civita di Bagnoregio, etc etc... I haven't had time to watch them all, but all those I watched were very interesting.
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Dec 28, 2020 18:32
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Kanine posted:I've noticed more and more museums, organizations, etc. using 3d scanned objects viewable online as a way to reach the public. It has uses. One thing I've seen is finding an undisturbed tomb, laser scanning it, then sealing it back up to preserve it but still being able to study the scans.
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Dec 28, 2020 18:46
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Weka posted:Anybody have an opinion on the claim the goths descended from the geats? It's disputed by modern historians. From what I've read it isn't impossible and they might be related. Lots of different germanic tribes spread out from Scandinavia and their names, goths, geats and gutes are all related. Problem is we don't have any evidence for this and the sources are Roman authors who write hundreds of years later. The gothic languages and the Scandinavian ones are also different branches of the germanic language family which suggests they split really early or that they aren't connected.
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Dec 28, 2020 21:08
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Grand Fromage posted:It's a lot smaller and it's down in a pit. It's a better preserved site but Pompeii is more spectacular. It's not just modern views either, Pompeii was a major-ish city and Herculaneum was a little resort town. Also lots of it is still buried underneath the modern town, to judge by what I saw when I was there.
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Dec 28, 2020 21:24
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Also lots of it is still buried underneath the modern town, to judge by what I saw when I was there. Yeah, less than a quarter of it is excavated. Partly because it's under Ercolano, partly because it's so hard to excavate. Pompeii was buried under loose ash and pumice so you can do it with a shovel. Herculaneum was covered with hot mud that turned into rock, so you have to dig with jackhammers. It's a nightmare.
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Dec 28, 2020 22:57
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Pompeii is like 8 feet below the surface vs ~80 feet for Herculaneum
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Dec 29, 2020 10:28
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Grand Fromage posted:Herculaneum was covered with hot mud that turned into rock, so you have to dig with jackhammers. It's a nightmare. Sounds kinda like we could introduce a theory where it wasn't the volcano that did Herculaneum in but a timetraveling Taco Bell.
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Dec 30, 2020 06:34
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I'm at Herculaneum (what) I'm at the Taco Bell (what) I'm at the time travelling Herculaneum Taco Bell
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Dec 30, 2020 10:53
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How does Tom Holland's (not spiderman) work stack up? His book about Islam seems to check a lot of weird boxes but don't know if that's just me reading poo poo where it doesn't belong.
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Dec 30, 2020 12:04
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Rubicon's great, especially for introducing people to the material. I've liked everything I've read of his, though I don't know Islamic or Persian history enough to judge those books like I did Rubicon. I've never seen a historical work about Islam that doesn't get slammed from some direction. Holland's is revisionist and trying to figure out historicity of a religious story. That will always get you massively criticized. I thought it was interesting and didn't seem implausible or nutty. Could easily be wrong, but I don't think the people calling him an Islamophobic creep for it have a leg to stand on.
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Dec 30, 2020 19:10
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There are so many insanely cool lectures big boy university prof lectures on youtube, it's great. This one was great: Steven Garfinkle - Commerce, Communication, and State Formation: Daily Life in Ancient Mesopotamia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6l5Y8uRpGQ+ e: can we talk about what an absolute desaster most of the old cuneiform alphabets are? Some of these symbols look like they are about as labor-intensive to produce as my entire house. aphid_licker fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Dec 30, 2020 |
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Dec 30, 2020 20:26
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aphid_licker posted:There are so many insanely cool lectures big boy university prof lectures on youtube, it's great. This one was great: Steven Garfinkle - Commerce, Communication, and State Formation: Daily Life in Ancient Mesopotamia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6l5Y8uRpGQ+ Here are a bunch I've enjoyed recently. Barry Cunliffe: Who Were the Celts? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8FM9nMFbfI (Cameraman sucks in the beginning though) The Scythians: Nomad Warriors of the Steppe | Barry Cunliffe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFsd_LyYZdo The Children of Ash: Cosmology and the Viking Universe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJZBqmGLHQ8 (First of 3 in a series) The Early Middle Ages, 284--1000 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC8JcWVRFp8 (A whole course) Eric Cline | 1177 BC: The Year Civilization Collapsed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyry8mgXiTk
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Dec 30, 2020 21:30
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Holland's book on the near East after ~400AD takes the stance that the Qur'an was fudged together by scholars decades or centuries after the fact, with particular howlers such as Mecca not being the original holy city and Muhammad's first followers being wealthy fixers from the Roman frontier. It all seemed believable, objectively argued and not frothing with prejudice to me (I have no real knowledge of the subject), but easy to see how it could rapidly piss people off.
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Dec 30, 2020 23:53
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Is that Viking video worth watching? I thought we didn’t really know anything about Viking cosmology?
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Dec 31, 2020 00:40
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a fatguy baldspot posted:Is that Viking video worth watching? I thought we didn’t really know anything about Viking cosmology? Yeah I think that video kind of just reports what's in the sagas. It's the first in a series of 3 and the later ones get into archaeology (the speaker is an archaeologist) and I liked those more.
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Dec 31, 2020 03:05
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Kemper Boyd posted:Sounds kinda like we could introduce a theory where it wasn't the volcano that did Herculaneum in but a timetraveling Taco Bell. The gods filled their buddy tunnel with cement so nobody could use it.
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Dec 31, 2020 04:59
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im currently reading some david graebers RIP "debt: the first 5000 years" and "fragments of an anarchist anthropology" im curious about any other contemporary anarchist writers that talk about historical subjects in a similar way to graeber?
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Dec 31, 2020 05:54
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There's Against the Grain by James C Scott.
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Dec 31, 2020 06:10
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Grand Fromage posted:Rubicon's great, especially for introducing people to the material. I've liked everything I've read of his, though I don't know Islamic or Persian history enough to judge those books like I did Rubicon. Strategic Tea posted:Holland's book on the near East after ~400AD takes the stance that the Qur'an was fudged together by scholars decades or centuries after the fact, with particular howlers such as Mecca not being the original holy city and Muhammad's first followers being wealthy fixers from the Roman frontier. Thanks, I came across his book on Islam from someone I'd say is Islamophobic adjacent, so raised my concern.
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Dec 31, 2020 07:53
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Archaeologists what is your most usless infocard/photo you keep handy. I have a slide on how to identify machine extruded bricks that I have used exactly zero times.
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Dec 31, 2020 07:54
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If your goal is to expound on Islam being a sham religion, In the Shadow of the Sword will give you ammunition. I wouldn't really call the book anti-Islam, though, except in that taking a look at the historical origins of religions requires questioning articles of faith among that religion's adherents, and you won't always come up with answers that they're happy with. e: It's been a while but iirc he talks about Christianity and Judaism with more or less the same tone, they just aren't the focus of the book. cheetah7071 fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Dec 31, 2020 |
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Dec 31, 2020 07:59
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cheetah7071 posted:e: It's been a while but iirc he talks about Christianity and Judaism with more or less the same tone, they just aren't the focus of the book. Yep. He's rightly skeptical of the origin stories of all religions. Christianity is unusual in that we have a lot of documentation of its early history, so we know for a fact that, say, the Bible is a volume compiled by various political committees over centuries rather than being the original word of Jesus or whatever. Judaism is so old we don't have anything like that, and my understanding is the Arabs just didn't write down anything about early Islam so it's all piecing together speculation from other, not great sources.
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Dec 31, 2020 08:13
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Ehh textual analysis of the Old Testament does identify different sources. I mean there is a lot of source criticism of the OT.
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Dec 31, 2020 08:19
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Ehh textual analysis of the Old Testament does identify different sources. I mean there is a lot of source criticism of the OT. Yeah but not to the level of the NT where we have stuff like "I, Bob Q. Biblewriter, am writing this letter to you, a church in so-and-so place, to talk about these and those doctrinal disputes". Plus we've got all these secondary sources and government councils and so on. With the OT we can suss out things like very general chronologies or how this part of the book is a priestly account and a scholarly account smooshed together.
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Dec 31, 2020 10:20
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Right, I'm not saying you can't analyze the OT, it's just that the type of material we have for early Christianity is often quite detailed. OT history is archaeology, NT history is... history.
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Dec 31, 2020 18:37
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Can anyone recommend accessible sources on daily life in Ptolemaic or Roman Egypt?
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Dec 31, 2020 21:17
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aphid_licker posted:There are so many insanely cool lectures big boy university prof lectures on youtube, it's great. This one was great: Steven Garfinkle - Commerce, Communication, and State Formation: Daily Life in Ancient Mesopotamia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6l5Y8uRpGQ+ Thanks! Will give this a watch. Re: cuneiform, I don't know that it's much more complex than modern ideographical scripts like Chinese/Japanese.
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Jan 1, 2021 12:42
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Thanks! Will give this a watch. I'm not clear on the process, so maybe I'm overestimating the number of strokes used, and I assume the more complex ones are the more rare ones, and it is actually pretty cool to see how they simplify over time, but some of these are pretty oof:  And they're syllables, not entire words, so you should have needed more of them to render a sentence than for Chinese/Japanese? This is a completely uninformed impression ofc.
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Jan 1, 2021 17:06
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Cuneiform characters can be either syllabograms or ideograms. Look up “determinative” if you want to know more about the latter. Basically unpronounced prefixes/suffixes letting you know what category the associated noun belongs in
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Jan 1, 2021 17:31
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Grand Fromage posted:Right, I'm not saying you can't analyze the OT, it's just that the type of material we have for early Christianity is often quite detailed. OT history is archaeology, NT history is... history. I am reminded of one history course that cited some OT passages as references when talking about the Assyrians, presumably mainly to drive home how goddamn ancient the history they're talking about is.
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Jan 1, 2021 18:01
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aphid_licker posted:And they're syllables, not entire words, so you should have needed more of them to render a sentence than for Chinese/Japanese? This is a completely uninformed impression ofc. I don't know about Chinese, but doesn't this describe hirigana and katakana?
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Jan 1, 2021 18:04
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Mr. Nice! posted:I don't know about Chinese, but doesn't this describe hirigana and katakana? It describes kana, hanzi, and kanji. Individual characters can be complete words or, more commonly, syllables in a larger word. Chinese is not actually that complicated, there's a set of ~220 radicals that make up all the characters you'd encounter in normal text. You memorize those and characters are assembled out of them. It looks like cuneiform does the same thing, though it has 1000-1500 "radicals" so it's way more complicated than Chinese.
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Jan 1, 2021 18:46
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Grand Fromage posted:It describes kana, hanzi, and kanji. Individual characters can be complete words or, more commonly, syllables in a larger word. Prefix: I'm just an enthusiastic amateur, please correct me if I have this totally wrong. I get the impression that 1000-1500 number is all the characters ever found, and that there were never more than 900 characters in use at any one time. Also, many of those characters are already derived by compounding of simpler characters. Just going by the cuneiform unicode set, which has around 900 characters, there are examples like "LAGAB" 𒆸, meaning "block", which has 49 derivative characters. For example, "LAGAB times SUM" 𒇡 = 𒆸 + 𒋧. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuneiform#Unicode https://escholarship.org/content/qt2w23q9c1/qt2w23q9c1.pdf?t=q4rj1c There's also generally a logic in how they're compounded. According to ePSD, the compound 𒇡 is one form of "sur", meaning "to press". As mentioned above, 𒆸 means "block", while 𒋧 means "to flatten". So the character for "pressing" is the combination of "flatten" and "block", presumably describing a wine press. But yeah, it also sounds like they got rid of most of the ideograms as soon as they started using it for languages other than Sumerian (for basically everyone except for scholars/mystics/priests).
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Jan 2, 2021 09:32
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If you have jstor access this might be good reading. The coincidences are pretty funny.
Mister Olympus fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Jan 2, 2021 |
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Jan 2, 2021 10:14
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Mister Olympus posted:If you have jstor access this might be good reading. The coincidences are pretty funny. can you give the raw jstor link? It looks like it's going thru your institution atm and that means I have no idea what article you're linking
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Jan 2, 2021 10:38
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