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Comrade Fakename posted:I dunno, I just think that they think it’s just how it works? “We need a track and trace system, who should run it?” “Oh, my good chum Alan knows some people, they’re real wizzes with this stuff!” “Great, chuck them a few dozen billion, job sorted. The private sector are the real experts after all.” And then their trust in the private sector is so fundamental to everything they believe that even a complete failure doesn’t shake it. “Well, we gave it to the experts, there’s nothing else we could have done!” Yeah, I think that’s right. Bobby Deluxe posted:No ifs, no buts. Any hope I had for Starmer being decent has basically gone so I am not coming at this from a fan-boy angle, but I believe that the new cases with kids is a result of the new strain which affects young people much more, and which wasn’t around at the time of the no ifs, no buts article.
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Jan 2, 2021 13:23
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If only he could have known basic evolution whereby diseases change to fit available environments. The kids who went to school would probably have been able to tell him that.
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Jan 2, 2021 13:24
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If his interest was in keeping as many people safe as possible and not wanting to be the sensible option for Mumsnet morons, he wouldn't have been harping on about SKOOLS BEING OPEN this entire loving time.
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Jan 2, 2021 13:30
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If Corbyn was still leader and calling for school closures the entire media would have been screaming about him wanting to create a nation of skivers who want to spend their lives on benefits, eating crisps and voting labour all day long instead of working hard and getting on in hardworkingfamilies grate britan 
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Jan 2, 2021 13:32
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OwlFancier posted:If only he could have known basic evolution whereby diseases change to fit available environments. At the time when this was being argued, how many people predicted that the virus would mutate to become more contagious and affect kids? Did you? kingturnip posted:If his interest was in keeping as many people safe as possible and not wanting to be the sensible option for Mumsnet morons, he wouldn't have been harping on about SKOOLS BEING OPEN this entire loving time. That’s definitely true. The labour line should have been about getting testing, track and trace sorted out to enable safe school openings, plus proper systems to incentivise the infected/quarantining to stay at home (benefits, furlough etc). Labour and Starmer have been poo poo but to blame him for what I think wasn’t really a foreseeable outcome isn’t really fair. It’s not like the government wasn’t going to do what it wanted anyway. crispix posted:If Corbyn was still leader and calling for school closures the entire media would have been screaming about him wanting to create a nation of skivers who want to spend their lives on benefits, eating crisps and voting labour all day long instead of working hard and getting on in hardworkingfamilies grate britan Let me see if I am doing this right: “Jewish schools among those Corbyn wants to close in new antisemitic outrage”
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Jan 2, 2021 13:37
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therattle posted:I believe that the new cases with kids is a result of the new strain which affects young people much more, and which wasn’t around at the time of the no ifs, no buts article. https://www.itv.com/news/2020-10-02/covid-cases-rising-fastest-among-teenagers-and-young-adults-ons-data-reveals 2nd October
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Jan 2, 2021 13:39
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kyojin posted:https://www.itv.com/news/2020-10-02/covid-cases-rising-fastest-among-teenagers-and-young-adults-ons-data-reveals The DM article was in August. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8631381/SIR-KEIR-STARMER-writes-response-Boris-Johnson-said-return-school-moral-duty.html
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Jan 2, 2021 13:40
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The disease was always being transmitted by children, there was never an acceptable reason to allow them to spread it.
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Jan 2, 2021 13:41
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therattle posted:The DM article was in August. The point being this was happening regardless of the new variant because it was loving obvious that it was going to happen to anyone who recognises the existence of germs
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Jan 2, 2021 13:41
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What infuriates me most about Labour is that they are only even bothering to talk about binary decisions that fit well within the scope of decision making of the Tories anyway. Not once have I heard the argument that we need massive, UBI like public support and spending. Not once have I heard any of them advocating for the sort of radical solutions implemented elsewhere in the world - massive spending to enable people to lock down safely and with minimal impact. Schools need to be closed? Make sure kids can get the materials they need to keep learning, whatever the cost. You can guarantee Corbyn’s Labour would have advocated for these sorts of radical socialist solutions which, even had they not happened, would have entered the public discourse as options. But no, Manager Keith is happy to gently caress about on the sidelines suggesting minor changes and being Sensible.
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Jan 2, 2021 13:47
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increasingly convinced it's only a matter of time before an anti lockdown/covid truther assaults a nurse or doctor while they're leaving work
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Jan 2, 2021 13:51
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gh0stpinballa posted:increasingly convinced it's only a matter of time before an anti lockdown/covid truther assaults a nurse or doctor while they're leaving work Some of the stuff I've seen on twitter makes this s certainty
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Jan 2, 2021 13:58
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no ifs no buts was in the summer, but e.g. starmer insisted that schools should stay open during the November lockdown https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1322839946214989825?s=20 and Nandy insisting schools should open in January happened after the new strain had been announced https://twitter.com/LabourList/status/1340975305624854535?s=20 it is absolutely ok to say "schools should be the last thing to shut, and the first things to open", but even now they can't bring themselves to actually back the teachers unions and call for all schools to stay closed, they are merely attacking the Tories for confusion and delay because they're too loving cowardly to say "hmmm actually it's clearly not safe to reopen any school at the moment" it's just ridiculous disingenuous poo poo
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Jan 2, 2021 14:01
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Convex posted:Also I agree with the sentiment of this: Doctor_Fruitbat posted:The disease was always being transmitted by children, there was never an acceptable reason to allow them to spread it. There's the social reasons to argue for schools, lost learning, saving kids from chaotic home lives or worse things, but "schools now, schools forever!" as a point of moral certainty was never a sensible path.
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Jan 2, 2021 14:03
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Jakabite posted:Schools need to be closed? Make sure kids can get the materials they need to keep learning, whatever the cost. PS happy-within-realistic-parameters new year, thread, I hope you all at least found solace in something over the last few weeks. I found a banging chocolate orange trifle recipe for anyone that wants it.
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Jan 2, 2021 14:06
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it is a weird coincidence that the coronavirus cases were about 1000 a day all summer and then suddenly started accelerating around September the 1st, but I presume this is unrelated to anything that might have happened around that date
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Jan 2, 2021 14:07
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Keeping (some) schools open (some of the time) might have made some sense if they had both properly supported schools to make restrictions (including financial support) and had acknowledged that it did increase the risk and so should be accompanied by stricter restrictions elsewhere rather than just pretending it did absolutely nothing to increase risk at all i.e. there probably should have been some ifs and/or buts
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Jan 2, 2021 14:09
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As a teacher on a council estate, the funniest thing to me is how everyone is suddenly bothered about whether or not working class children are getting the education they need*. It also shows how delusional people really are about what current state education actually does to/for children at the best of times, not to mention the fuckery that was autumn term 2020. *I'm not just talking about funding here, but the whole system as it currently (read: for the last 150 years) works. I never post in here but this has got me very angry. Edit: I should clarify that when I say 'everyone' I don't mean people posting itt, I mean our overlords and shadow overlords.
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Jan 2, 2021 14:09
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I could defend the original no ifs no buts as basic opposition attack politics, like Corbyn the day after the EU referendum telling Cameron he now had to trigger Article 50 - the intent is to hold the government's feet to the fire by pressuring them to do the very stupid thing they promised to do. obvious problem is that Tories ultimately will do very stupid things anyway (and will receive no accountability from the press for some reason) but continuing to demand schools stay open is just stupid in its own right
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Jan 2, 2021 14:10
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Boris on tv insisting that schools are safe boiled my piss. How can you say that with a straight face??? E: you should keep posting crazyvanman! I don’t think I’d be the only one very interested in the takes of a teacher in your position right now.
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Jan 2, 2021 14:11
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None of them from either party gives a gently caress about kids getting their education, they just want the schools open as a crèche so that everyone can keep going to work
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Jan 2, 2021 14:11
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Noxville posted:None of them from either party gives a gently caress about kids getting their education, they just want the schools open as a crèche so that everyone can keep going to work i'm reporting this post to the brexit police for using a funny character
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Jan 2, 2021 14:14
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Jakabite posted:Boris on tv insisting that schools are safe boiled my piss. How can you say that with a straight face??? It tells you how much he values children, since he's clearly never spent any time with any of his 7 (8?, x?) to have gained any understanding of what they're like.
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Jan 2, 2021 14:15
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Borrovan posted:PS happy-within-realistic-parameters new year, thread, I hope you all at least found solace in something over the last few weeks. I found a banging chocolate orange trifle recipe for anyone that wants it. God drat it, I thought I'd finally found a use for the five chocolate oranges my parents foisted on me, and it doesn't use actual orange chocolate. 
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Jan 2, 2021 14:21
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Patiently waiting for the UK to devolve and morph into a mixture of 'Monty Python and the Holy Grail' and 'Zardoz'. 
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Jan 2, 2021 14:21
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opposition attack politics isn't what he should be doing, he should be advocating loudly and constantly for the right thing ironically, his insistence on not doing "opposition for opposition's sake" i.e. basically never contradicting the government until it's way too late, is exactly the kind of stupid political game playing he is ostensibly trying to avoid like loving "abstaining in the national interest" on the loving tiers system! you have votes in parliament, at least loving try demanding some concrete thing you think would be better rather than just going "well I don't agree with the legislation but it's better than nothing so I won't vote for or against" https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1333515798091063297?s=20 especially ironic given he then voted for a trade deal he didn't support "in the national interest" he's just a stupid inconsistent prick, at least if he was a smooth political operator it might be slightly easier to accept him being such a right wing twat
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Jan 2, 2021 14:21
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Didn’t realise the lads up top were trying to speedrun 2021 into the ground but they’ve done a masterful job. How last minute will they close schools?
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Jan 2, 2021 14:24
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Guavanaut posted:There's the social reasons to argue for schools, lost learning, saving kids from chaotic home lives or worse things, but "schools now, schools forever!" as a point of moral certainty was never a sensible path. Very stable door now, but of course so much of this would be easier if starting with a working system. Fewer kids with chaotic home lives, smaller class sizes*, more teachers, wages and house prices such that parents can work much less and so not rely on school as childcare by default, broadband communism, and as Borrovan says, systems in place to implement home learning when needed. All of which can be achieved even within a capitalist system (if we must). But no, run everything on crisis mode at all times. I read a succinct phrasing of the problem earlier - all spare capacity is treated as waste. Look where that got us. *I think I read in this thread that small class sizes aren't the panacea one might think, but a) I think it was talking about going from like 30 to 22, while going sub-15 makes a difference. Let's do that! and b) it would probably help a lot in the current situation
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Jan 2, 2021 14:25
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Jakabite posted:What infuriates me most about Labour is that they are only even bothering to talk about binary decisions that fit well within the scope of decision making of the Tories anyway. Not once have I heard the argument that we need massive, UBI like public support and spending. Not once have I heard any of them advocating for the sort of radical solutions implemented elsewhere in the world - massive spending to enable people to lock down safely and with minimal impact. Schools need to be closed? Make sure kids can get the materials they need to keep learning, whatever the cost. You can guarantee Corbyn’s Labour would have advocated for these sorts of radical socialist solutions which, even had they not happened, would have entered the public discourse as options. But no, Manager Keith is happy to gently caress about on the sidelines suggesting minor changes and being Sensible. This is good. I am not sure why I am even defending Keith on principle. It’s not necessary.
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Jan 2, 2021 14:25
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Real Cool Catfish posted:Didn’t realise the lads up top were trying to speedrun 2021 into the ground but they’ve done a masterful job. How last minute will they close schools? probably tomorrow evening
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Jan 2, 2021 14:26
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XMNN posted:probably tomorrow evening I'm betting half way through the first day of term once they've all had a chance to start infecting each other.
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Jan 2, 2021 14:30
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Real Cool Catfish posted:Didn’t realise the lads up top were trying to speedrun 2021 into the ground but they’ve done a masterful job. How last minute will they close schools? E: Actually ^^ that would be even more stupid and thus more likely
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Jan 2, 2021 14:32
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Borrovan posted:I've had a few rants about the teaching situation itt & elsewhere from a worker solidarity perspective, but just from a pragmatic perspective what really irks me is that it would be so loving fixable. Just get some actual experts in pedagogy & people who are passionate about teaching innovation to develop a distance learning program, and develop distance materials that can actually be easily supervised & delivered online by teachers with minimal training (which is then provided). Why on earth does every individual teacher of every individual class need to redevelop the wheel when you can just do it once for the entire country, and allow teachers to actually spend their time guiding students through actually-helpful exercises rather than having to bash out a load of stuff they know nothing about & leave the bits that they're actually good at to parents who frankly don't have the time. There's just no will for it, I've never even heard anyone suggest it. To be fair, https://www.thenational.academy came out during lockdown 1 and has been expanded since. However all schools have their own interpretation of the national curriculum. This means that the 'learning journey' may cover similar broad topics across the years, but teach different things in a different order. Our existing Computing schemes of work don't match the ones on the Oak Academy for many reasons (local context, preference of departments, available technology, history, they were only created in the past 12 months by the NCCE) and so while that website is great, we would have to re-design our 'learning journey'. That's definitely something that could be done, but "We've been teaching that spreadsheet unit for 5 years and it works" leads to definite stasis.
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Jan 2, 2021 14:32
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XMNN posted:no ifs no buts was in the summer, but e.g. starmer insisted that schools should stay open during the November lockdown Dunno why but an old Suede song comes to mind, Trash. Anyway, I saw this dumb tweet so you can too https://twitter.com/oldnorthroad/status/1345341397411516418?s=20 Man outraged that image of tampon makes him horny
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Jan 2, 2021 14:32
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XMNN posted:probably tomorrow evening Monday morning.
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Jan 2, 2021 14:32
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Jakabite posted:Boris on tv insisting that schools are safe boiled my piss. How can you say that with a straight face??? It was a beautifully incoherent message. Schools are safe. The problem is not the schools. The issue is the mixing of households that naturally happens in schools. Send your children to school. It's absolutely right to do.
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Jan 2, 2021 14:36
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Bobstar posted:I read a succinct phrasing of the problem earlier - all spare capacity is treated as waste. Look where that got us. Josef bugman posted:Monday morning. With no way to open schools that didn't hurt And the tier I had for breakfast didn't work So I add one more for dessert
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Jan 2, 2021 14:37
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therattle posted:Yeah, I think that’s right. Children were being infected and hospitalised from the start, and an apparently unique to children side-effect of infection has been known since at least May: https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1257526692144222208 Forcing children back to school has been known to be unsafe since the first lockdown, and anyone calling for it is either incompetent to make that call, or malicious bordering on monstrous. Starmers "no ifs, no buts" call - particularly as it was made in the Mail - is definitely the latter, because it was reacting to chattering-class moaning about the kids being under their feet and small-business psycho whinging that their wage-slaves weren't at their immediate beck and call, not on what is safest and best for the children.
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Jan 2, 2021 14:40
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forkboy84 posted:Dunno why but an old Suede song comes to mind, Trash.
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Jan 2, 2021 14:42
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Once again it seems that the "mysterious new strain" is being used to cover for the loving up the message with schools, as with cancelling Christmas.
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Jan 2, 2021 14:43
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