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Big K of Justice posted:What should be the things I check? Should a mainboard bios flash be the first thing I do? I tried manually changing my profile to the numbers on the back of my memory box but that didn't help at all. Plus there's a metric ton of numbers to fill in. Yeah, updating your BIOS should be your first move. There have been a lot of newer BIOSes pushed out over the last few months, and while most of them are aimed at Zen3, there's a lot of other stuff shoved in them, too. XMP may or may not ever work for you--it's very much a YMMV thing between the particular RAM sticks, motherboard, BIOS, and CPU on whether or not it works. If you leave the voltage settings on Auto and just manually set the RAM speed to 3600 and CL 16 it will likely work. The rest of the sub-timings are a lot less important and you can either ignore them or use something like Ryzen Memory Calculator to pick better-than-default ones. With XMP off it's likely defaulting to 2666 because that's the highest JEDEC profile it knows about (you'll see similar stuff on Intel boards, too, if you turn off XMP).
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Jan 4, 2021 18:17
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Along with what others have said, pretty safe bet that .1 extra V on the ram will also do the trick to make the xmp profile work. Ram is fuckin frustrating though for real. Billion different fiddly settings, sometimes they do a lot, sometimes they do nothing, whether it's even worth fussing with depends heavily on your specific applications, etc etc etc.
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Jan 4, 2021 20:11
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Ram subtimings named as different things on different boards confuses me.
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Jan 4, 2021 21:09
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:Ram subtimings named as different things on different boards confuses me. Never mind ones that literally do nothing. RowToRowLolTrickedYouIntoMessingWithThis
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Jan 4, 2021 21:10
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Gwaihir posted:Along with what others have said, pretty safe bet that .1 extra V on the ram will also do the trick to make the xmp profile work. However that is quite a lot of ram. It's dual-rank, running 4x dual rank configuration can work, it's not a problem afaik, but it's probably going to be a little fiddly to get stable and isn't as favorable as 4xSingle Rank or 2xDual Rank. I believe it's probably some form of Hynix CJR which is also OK but it's also a less forgiving/fiddly than b-die is going to be. Looking up a Newegg review for it, someone said they had to go to 1.55v on VDRAM to get stable which is oof pretty high, I wouldn't want to run it with that much voltage because yikes. If all that still doesn't work, honestly I would almost say forget all the secondary timings completely, just leave them Auto. Not worth the headache there. Set Memory Multiplier to 36x; set memory clock to 1800; set infinity fabric to 1800, set V_DRAM to something low like 1.36V. V_SOC to like 1000 - 1050 mV. Probably leave Primary TImings at Auto for now too. See what happens there. If it's stable after withmanually setting the speed and infintiy fabric, that's good news! It then looks like XMP-primary timings are 16-22-22-42 so I would just manually set those and walk away at that point being happy. That that much gobbs of RAM it looks like you're trying to do video-editting or simulation-y poo poo right? Then you probably want upmost stability possibly. Nothing is going to be worse than getting instability in the middle of something like that. Given the configuration of 4x dual-rank hynix cjr 32-gb/banks I may even suggest you forget about XMP entirely and run it at a DDR 3200 / IF 1600 configuration and stick to JEDEC timings for the ram. IDK, it's up to you but something to keep in mind this could be hard to get 100% stable without fiddling with it more than you might like to. But at least try the low-hanging fruit options first. Xaris fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 21:47
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1.55? Exceeding the absolute maximum voltage rating of 1.5V before overshoot is... shall we say daring.
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Jan 4, 2021 21:56
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hobbesmaster posted:1.55? Exceeding the absolute maximum voltage rating of 1.5V before overshoot is... shall we say daring. yeah that just seems like it's going to die in a year. I hope that isn't the case aand they were just review trolling. I couldn't find much information about it. but yeah I'm not surprised it's not happy with XMP
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Jan 4, 2021 21:57
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Glancing at the MSI site it doesn't look like that RAM is on the approved list for 32GB sticks in 4 slots, so having to make some adjustments does make sense. The advice to try it at 3200mhz seems reasonable.
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Jan 4, 2021 22:04
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 22:05
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e;fb - set IF to 1800, not 1900--even with Zen3 a lot of chips/boards struggle to hit 1900 IF right now. Otherwise those are reasonable recommendations.
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Jan 4, 2021 22:08
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You can unlink things to test to the processor’s IF clock capability versus the ram’s limits. One of the more popular guides suggests isolating that first so you aren’t vainly messing with memory timings and voltages if your IF can’t make it. That’s more for the 1800-1900 region. For example I have no idea if my micron e die can hit 1900 because my 3600x tops out at 1833. hobbesmaster fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 22:10
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As a bit of an aside I can’t wait until everything is quad pumped and the ambiguity between MHz and MT/s gets even worse.
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Jan 4, 2021 22:14
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sincx posted:Infinity fabric clock should be the same as memory clock for maximum performance. So 3600 MHz memory (1800 real clock [DDR]) should equal 1800 fabric clock. Also only some Zen 2 chips can do 1900 fabric. yeah that was a fat finger typo, i fixed it. Xaris fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 23:09
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I know there's several other goons messing around with PBO+CO and I found out someone has made a low-load stability script using Prime95 small FFT test to isolate CO per core stability. Worth checking out to make sure there's nothing unstable with too aggressive CO that high-load stress testing like CineBench doesn't catch: You can also probably manually isolate core affinity in Task Manger: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/koytwe/curve_optimizer_percore_stability_test_tool/ Xaris fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 01:49
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Seems like more work than OCCT w/affinity set in Task Manager but I'm code illiterate. Might have to try it since 2 x-5, 3 x -10, 3 x -15 is still rebooting my machine sometimes.
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Jan 5, 2021 02:35
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if the magic bullet is to get approved ram [I was a dummy and listened to my friends that pc parts picker would ensure compatibility so that's on me] I'm within the return window of my gskill modules and I can swap it out for an approved 32 GB module instead if that helps even if I eat the 15% restock fee... would that help? I'm pouring over the compatibility list now. Am I looking at the right list here: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/MAG-X570-TOMAHAWK-WIFI#support-mem-19 3950x is a Matisse series cpu? Big K of Justice fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 06:48
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 07:30
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Big K of Justice posted:3950x is a Matisse series cpu? yes, the Ryzen 9 3950X belongs to the family codenamed "Matisse"
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Jan 5, 2021 07:39
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Big K of Justice posted:if the magic bullet is to get approved ram [I was a dummy and listened to my friends that pc parts picker would ensure compatibility so that's on me] I'm within the return window of my gskill modules and I can swap it out for an approved 32 GB module instead if that helps even if I eat the 15% restock fee... would that help? I'm pouring over the compatibility list now. Infact please take note that on the QVL the highest ram they have listed is 32 GB, and that's tested at 32 GB ONLY configuration. There's no 128 GB configuration of QVL ram E: Wait, just to make sure I'm understanding what you want right, you currently have 128 GBs (4x32). Are you still wanting to keep 128 GBs but using a different (4x32) set? Or are you happy downgrading to a max of 32 GB of ram? Xaris fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 09:20
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Man I thought I was finally done upgrading until I watched that Gamers Nexus video about how 4x RAM does some magical crap for 5000 series processors.
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Jan 5, 2021 09:38
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exquisite tea posted:Man I thought I was finally done upgrading until I watched that Gamers Nexus video about how 4x RAM does some magical crap for 5000 series processors. This video also does a good job if you haven't seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEP8iVVQR-g  
Xaris fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 09:39
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I watched that whole Hardware Canucks video yesterday and for the first time in 25 years I think I finally know what RAM does.
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Jan 5, 2021 10:10
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ram just stores data, but fastly not as fastly as cache tho!
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Jan 5, 2021 10:21
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hobbesmaster posted:You can unlink things to test to the processor’s IF clock capability versus the ram’s limits. One of the more popular guides suggests isolating that first so you aren’t vainly messing with memory timings and voltages if your IF can’t make it. Definitely do this. I thought I got some total poo poo e die. Finally figured out, after weeks of messing with it, that my early production 3600x craps out somewhere just north of 1700 IF. So I'm running memory that might be really good at 3400. 
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Jan 5, 2021 12:37
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My ram is not approved and does the xmp/docp fine at auto voltage 2x16gb 32gb 3200 rated Someday I'll experiment again with overclocking out a little more speed, there has been like 5 bios updates that were all supposed to help, but I'm no good at it, even with multiple guides.
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Jan 5, 2021 17:02
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Xaris posted:I mean you can probably get your existing set stable just fine without much hassle. Vendor list is nice but it's not end-all-be-all binary works vs doesn't work: most of the the time they just can't/don't test every single ram out there. The fact it's stable at JEDEC timings means the RAM is fine, it's just XMP isn't great for Ryzen and 4x configuration of dual rank ram is quite an oddball; and the fact is that buying 4x 32 gb dual rank 3600 ram would probably result in similar XMP problems no matter what brand you buy. Now you could buy 4x 32 GB DR 3200-ram and it may be fine with XMP, but at that point why not just set the clock on your current set to that? You're just probably going to have to do a little bit of tweaking and it's really not that bad. Yeah I'm not quite understanding the list on MSI, since the skus are for individual sticks of 32 GB but I wish to run 128 GB [4x32 GB]. I go to gskills site and it claims the kit I have [ F4-3600C16Q-128 GTZN ] is vendor certified with MSI with that MAG X570 Tomahawk board so I'll tweak settings first and figure out what works. I just wish it was plug and play but that's the luxury I get with prebuilds I guess. I do plan to upgrade to a x5950 later so the intention is to get ram that'll take advantage of that also. I'll try the settings on g.skills page and if I have stability problems I'll email their tech support and follow up here.
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Jan 5, 2021 20:55
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Big K of Justice posted:Yeah I'm not quite understanding the list on MSI, since the skus are for individual sticks of 32 GB but I wish to run 128 GB [4x32 GB]. I go to gskills site and it claims the kit I have [ F4-3600C16Q-128 GTZN ] is vendor certified with MSI with that MAG X570 Tomahawk board so I'll tweak settings first and figure out what works. I just wish it was plug and play but that's the luxury I get with prebuilds I guess. I do plan to upgrade to a x5950 later so the intention is to get ram that'll take advantage of that also. You're going to have to make some sacrifices somewhere for having that much. Either your own personal time in tweaking, stability, latency, capacity, mem/infinity fabric, or synchronicity. If you want to spend no time at all and have best stability, then forget about XMP entirely. Just ignore it even exists, walk away, and be happy with the capacity without worrying something is going to crash mid-work. If you want relatively small amount of time-commitment and potentially only rare edge-case instability while having synchronicity and better speeds than JEDEC settings, manually set it to 3200 / 1600 and probably slightly nudge up voltages and leave everything else Auto. If you really want max speeds, it's going to come at a cost of a fair bit of trial and error tweaking, potentially more rare edge-case instability, and most definitely a lot more (but safe) DRAM and IMC voltage. How much time is up to you. Honestly it sounds like you're adverse to tweaking (which is totally understandable, I'm not knocking that, but it's going to come at a cost for having a premium of 8 ranks of ram -- some blood is going to have to be paid somewhere here to lift the ancient curse) so my recommendation just to forget XMP even exists still stands. I don't know what you're doing but it sounds like you're doing intensive memory-hungry work to need that much, at that point having best stability means forgetting about it. And take note that Zen3 (5950) is even more hungry on the voltage going into the IMC (VSOC) than Zen 2. So just because you get it stable at bare minimum voltage increase to the IMC/RAM on Zen2 means you're likely going to have to increase it for stability reasons for Zen3 if you're doing anything other than JEDEC settings. But I can tell you right now, buying a different set of 4x 32GB XMP-rated 3600 sticks isn't going to fix the problem. The only, and I still wouldn't bet money on it working out of the box, but literally the only chance you would even have of having plug-n-play 128 GBs of ram XMP rated for 3600/1800 is if you buy 4x32GBs of single-rank ram, which I'm 99.9% sure doesn't even exist outside of a freak scientific experiment at Crucial's laboratory. Either that or throw all the AMD stuff in the trash and buy Intel. Please don't goon-in-a-well yourself here, and I really do mean that upmost of love. Xaris fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 22:08
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Xaris posted:This isn't really directed at you, but just to make it clear to lurkers that it's 4x single rank ram that's the best; or rather 2x dual rank ram is the nearly the exact same as 4x single rank -- if not better at times. If you have 2x8 GB SR RAM, yeah you should throw in an extra 2x8 GB SR to make it 4x; no question. But if you have 2x16G DR, then just stick with that. I would hate for someone whom already has a 2xDR configuration to run out, blast money, and make it a 4xDR configuration and poo poo their computer without realizing what they're doing just because they heard 4x is better from youtube mans. Yeah this is the real reason to go 32GB for new builds because 99% of the time that's a four rank setup (4x8 or 2x16). There's few exceptions to this afaik like this expensive single rank 16GB Crucial stuff, probably not something you'd buy by mistake. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083TSHGFL?tag=pcpapi-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1
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Jan 5, 2021 23:08
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My 2700x is acting weird and I figure I might as well replace it. I guess I'll make a trip down to microcenter tomorrow and grab either a 5800x or 5900x. Either will just be a drop in replacement on an x470 crosshair vii with a bios update, correct?
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Jan 5, 2021 23:38
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fknlo posted:My 2700x is acting weird and I figure I might as well replace it. I guess I'll make a trip down to microcenter tomorrow and grab either a 5800x or 5900x. Either will just be a drop in replacement on an x470 crosshair vii with a bios update, correct? assuming you have the most updated bios where it says it added support for Zen3, yes. I would say grab a 5600x personally unless you're doing heavy non-game workloads and save some money. 5800x is a poorly priced chip. 5900x performs (very slightly) worse for gaming.
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Jan 5, 2021 23:45
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Xaris posted:assuming you have the most updated bios where it says it added support for Zen3, yes. Microcenter doesn't even have the 5600x listed on their website. I'd definitely grab one of those first if they had it in store. e: I found it but you can't just type 5600x on the microcenter site. fknlo fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Jan 6, 2021 |
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Jan 6, 2021 00:24
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Jan 6, 2021 00:57
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sincx posted:I don't think the situation is that dire. Also upgrading to a 5950x in the future probably will require another 10-40mV or so on VSOC around maybe 1.1 - 1.13 for stable IMC.
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Jan 6, 2021 01:22
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When I had a B450 Aorus Pro WiFi I had no problem doing Gigabyte's super easy RAM overclock to OC my DDR4 2666 to 3200. I cannot for the life of me duplicate this on my MSI Tomahawk B550. Using their preset for "Memory Experience" and setting DDR4-3200 CAS 16 not only does the PC not boot, but it actually reports a CPU error light, meaning I need to manually clear the CMOS - it doesn't increment the "memory failed, reset to default" counter that's built in. Anyone have any thoughts? I know this is a common board but it's my first MSI. The RAM is Hynix C Die but it was rock stable for a while on the old board so I am 99.9% sure it's not the RAM.
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Jan 6, 2021 03:28
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What voltage did you set the RAM to.
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Jan 6, 2021 03:35
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bus hustler posted:When I had a B450 Aorus Pro WiFi I had no problem doing Gigabyte's super easy RAM overclock to OC my DDR4 2666 to 3200. What is it doing setting wise? do you set voltages or can you see what it's doing there? I would honestly say just do it manually. 3200 should be a piece of cake. Set Memory Multiplier to 32x (or 3200), set memclck to 1600, set infinity fabric to 1600, set DRAM Voltage to 1.4, set VSOC to 1.1, set primary timings 16-20-20-40 (tCL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS) and tCWL to 16, everything else auto. does it boot? if so, gratzi. now either see if you can go higher (3400/1700 may be do-able, possibly even 3600/1800) or drop voltages by 50 mV until it's no longer booting/stable and you've probably found the baseline for that setup.
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Jan 6, 2021 03:36
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I tried 1.35 and 1.45 voltage, both failed to boot instantly, no POST, CPU light on. I wouldn't even care if i didn't have to reset the goddamn CMOS each time manually, if it just popped as a memory failure. I did just update the BIOS to the 12/29/20 one, I was on the 11/4/20 one and will try again tomorrow morning.
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Jan 6, 2021 03:54
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How often do the 5600x come into stock? There are a couple scalpers selling locally that are about $40 over what I would pay at micro center and I also wouldn't have to drive an hour each way.
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Jan 6, 2021 05:41
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+$40 after tax? assuming 100 miles the IRS would have that as $56 in mileage & in my area would be a few bucks in tolls too
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Jan 6, 2021 05:43
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bus hustler posted:+$40 after tax? assuming 100 miles the IRS would have that as $56 in mileage & in my area would be a few bucks in tolls too Yeah, about a $40 difference after tax. There would be zero tolls and I'd take my Prius down so it would only be a couple gallons of gas but it's still an hour plus each way provided they get one and I can get my hands on it. It doesn't seem like a bad tradeoff on my end.
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Jan 6, 2021 05:51
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