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Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
Rosaria's moveset is supposed to be low hit, I guess it's because she's the first non-Liyue polearm user and that's the style for moonstat.

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Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWCKwcrkxpA

Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

take all my gems ganyu

Vargs
Mar 27, 2010

I'm not particularly excited for Ganyu but I might roll for her just because it opens up the option for a pretty different playstyle in charged shot archery (which you can technically do with Amber already, but, well...). Seems like it'll give a bit more variety than yet another melee carry like Xiao/Hu Tao, even if it is a bit awkward.

More importantly, I've been sitting on a stack of primos for ages and I'm never going to get Xingqiu or my final Fischl/Ningguang constellations if I don't use them.

I will admit that I wish Ice Amber was a 4* and regular Amber was the significantly better 5* just because regular Amber is a pretty likable character while Ganyu just sort of seems to be there.

Vargs fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Jan 6, 2021

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012

well, she seems like a perfectly lovely character i just won't be rolling

https://twitter.com/GenshinImpact/status/1346682910347309056?s=20

looking forward to her story quest

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
She's an immortal slave to capitalism and I feel like that probably represents something.

Pope Urbane II
Nov 25, 2012

Clarste posted:

She's an immortal slave to capitalism and I feel like that probably represents something.

She's the blessed perfect hardworking goat waifu?

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Framboise posted:

No, I'm not f2p, but I'm also not blowing fat stacks on the game like I have for other gacha games (because it's literally not worth it in Genshin). The Battle Pass actually has very little impact on wishes imo-- there's still about a week left on this current banner and I'm one 4* away from soft pity on a 5* where I stop pulling, waiting for the next banner. The Battle Pass just gets me there just a liiiiiiittle bit faster-- I get that more for the hero's wits and mora more than anything else.

Oh no, I wasn't thinking you were a whale or anything I don't think anyone's a whale in here- at most I think someone might spend maybe 40$ once every other month- I was just shocked at people doing that many rolls and had to wonder how they were pulling off having that many primogems.

dogsicle posted:

well, she seems like a perfectly lovely character i just won't be rolling

https://twitter.com/GenshinImpact/status/1346682910347309056?s=20

looking forward to her story quest

If Ganyu turns out to be another character that returns from expeditions faster, I'll be forced to roll for her.

Nakar
Sep 2, 2002

Ultima Ratio Regum

RPATDO_LAMD posted:

Even with R5 crescent pike, and ignoring all damage from skills, an anemo goblet gives you more damage than a phys goblet during the ult buff.
Okay so here's Actual Math(TM) to settle this, boiling things down to bare minimums. I'm filtering out any extra bonuses, ignoring defense calculations, assuming no Crit effects, and 1000 ATK and lv6 skills. Note that I'm ignoring the effect of his Ascension Talent that ramps him up to +25% DMG under Burst because it says "All DMG" meaning it would also scale Crescent Pike hits; if that's worded wrong that's another matter, but I'm taking the skill as it's written.

PHYSICAL% GOBLET
  • A physical hit does (1000*TalentMultiplier)*(1.928); the full attack string does 11221 damage.
  • A Burst-converted hit does (1000*TalentMultipler)*(1.77); the full attack string does 10302 damage.
  • An R5 Crescent Pike bonus hit does (1000*0.4)*(1.928) or 771 damage.
  • The combined damage outside of Burst is 11221+(771*8) or 17389 damage. We can ignore Burst damage because it's a DPS loss (though it probably ramps up to better with the Ascension Talent after 6-9s, but I'd say that probably evens out).
  • Lemnistatic Wind Cycling does (1000*3.5392)*(1) or 3539 damage every 5 seconds.
ANEMO% GOBLET
  • A physical hit does (1000*TalentMultiplier)*(1.345); the full attack string does 7828 damage.
  • A Burst-converted hit does (1000*TalentMultiplier)*(2.236); the full attack string does 13014 damage.
  • An R5 Crescent Pike bonus hit does (1000*0.4)*(1.345) or 538 damage.
  • The combined damage outside of Burst is 7828+(538*8) or 12132 damage. In Burst, it's 13014+(538*8) or 17318 damage.
  • Lemnistatic Wing Cycling does (1000*3.5392)*(1.466) or 5188 damage every 5 seconds.
Looking at pure attack string damage, the Physical% outside of Burst wins by a hair over the Anemo% in Burst. However, the Anemo% is doing more DPS with the Skill (1037 vs. 707 DPS), so the x-factor here is how long it takes Xiao to do an attack string. If he can do just one attack string every 5s -- he can almost certainly do better with animation cancels or something and I doubt his attack string takes 5 seconds but I don't know his frame data -- then Physical% has a DPS of 4185 and Anemo% has a DPS of either 3463 or 4501. So Anemo Xiao is either doing 82.7% of Physical Xiao's damage output or 107.6% of it, either losing quite badly or winning by very little. Xiao's Burst lasts 15s and has an 18s CD, so at best he has 83% uptime and his expected DPS is 4325. If he's only able to Burst every 20s that drops to 4005, so he really needs to be getting 70 Energy together every 18s or else the Physical% wins because it doesn't give a poo poo about Energy unless it just happens to want the extra AoE and jumping and is willing to take a DPS loss until the Ascension Talent ramps up. Physical% doesn't really lose that much popping Q, it just doesn't really gain a lot either.

There are some factors that can change things but that I can't really calculate right now:
  • As Talent levels rise, the relative value of Anemo% also rises. The higher Xiao's basic attack Talent, the less impactful the Crescent Pike's extra hit is relative to his multipliers, and unlike a lot of Polearm users he has very high multipliers and tends to outpace the Pike. The higher Bane of All Evil is, the closer its multiplier comes to overcoming the combined Pike+Goblet Physical% bonus; at lv10 or higher, Bane of All Evil stops being a DPS loss for Physical% and obviously boosts Anemo% by more as it's leveled up.
  • Damage amps and resistance shreds. Neither Anemo nor Physical can benefit from Venerer or Petra bonuses, but Anemo can use a potion to increase Anemo damage while Physical has to use food for that (though you can pop a Cold Cut Platter for +40% Physical instead of +ATK food). Outside of that it depends on your access to C6 Anemo Traveler, C2 Venti, C4 Jean, C4 Xinyan, or C4 Razor; only C6 Anemo Traveler is guaranteed, but C4 Xinyan is a lot more attainable than C2 Venti or C4 Jean and provides both amp and shred. There's also Superconduct, which is a very large buff to Physical, and considering how close the two are it could give a serious edge to the Physical% setup.
  • Ideal team compositions. If Physical Xiao wants both Xinyan and Superconduct, that's his entire team setup right there. Anemo Xiao potentially has more flexibility since he can Swirl off any element but Anemo/Geo and can technically benefit from buffs to elemental damage via the Swirls themselves. It won't be much but it's soemthing. He'd probably want something like Xingqiu as I'm not sure anyone else could keep up with his Swirl output, but that leaves two more slots to fill however you like. Post-buff Zhongli for brainless shred and shielding would be easy to fit in, for example, as well as Bennett.
  • Whether Xiao is actually able to stay on the field for his full 15s of Burst. It ends when he switches, unlike some buffs like Diluc's or Noelle's, so if Xiao can't stay out for the full 15s he loses the Anemo infusion and bonus damage. This heavily advantages the Physical% setup as it can tag out and lose nothing of consequence, doing effectively the same damage when he comes back in; it also mitigates Superconduct's shorter duration, not that Xiao would need Superconduct while in his Burst I guess.
tl;dr The answer actually appears to be "it depends."

kater
Nov 16, 2010

Yangu is an interesting character I guess. I miss those ar4 days when I spent so much time amber sniping everything. ‘Interesting’ is the maximum value a thing can have so maybe I roll but also I don’t have gems and don’t have books to level anyone so hmm.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012

RareAcumen posted:

If Ganyu turns out to be another character that returns from expeditions faster, I'll be forced to roll for her.

the leak had her giving ore refund on crafted bows, similar to Diluc and Zhongli for their respective weapon types. at least with 5* we know of, all have skills unrelated to expeditions unless they change in release.

kater
Nov 16, 2010

Oh I don’t have mora either.

I do have plenty of liyue talent books. And slime secretions. Someone buy these brochures and slime from me.

Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

dogsicle posted:

the leak had her giving ore refund on crafted bows, similar to Diluc and Zhongli for their respective weapon types. at least with 5* we know of, all have skills unrelated to expeditions unless they change in release.

Keqing's skill is reduced expedition time in Liyue, just like Chongyun.

Bennett and Fischl are the reduced expedition time characters for Mondstadt.

S.J.
May 19, 2008

Just who the hell do you think we are?

Expedition time reductions are the loving worst.

Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy
I'll take it over refunds on crafted weapons, something you do approximately never thanks to have rare the drops are for them.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012

Framboise posted:

Keqing's skill is reduced expedition time in Liyue, just like Chongyun.

Bennett and Fischl are the reduced expedition time characters for Mondstadt.

sorry, with that i meant to imply future 5* (Ganyu, Xiao, Hu Tao, Ayaka) none of which have expedition skills

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

I LITERALLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO NOT BE A WEIRD SEXUAL CREEP ABOUT PREPUBESCENT ANIME GIRLS, READ ALL ABOUT IT HERE!!!
Crescent pike really needs to be nerfed or something or it will be the only worthwhile DPS polearm for the rest of the life of the game, either that or they need to make all the current and future polearms completely broken so that they are at least worth considering over crescent.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

I finally slightly unfucked Keqing's crit stats. Previously she was sporting an extremely lopsided 11% crit rate and 141% crit damage. Now she has ~30% crit rate and 101% crit damage (and the rate will increase ~15% more once I finish leveling the artifact).

The ideal ratio is something like double the crit damage of your crit rate, right?

dogsicle posted:

the leak had her giving ore refund on crafted bows, similar to Diluc and Zhongli for their respective weapon types. at least with 5* we know of, all have skills unrelated to expeditions unless they change in release.

Ore refund on crafting weapons seem like one of the worse passives, since it seems like you'll never be running even remotely low on ore (unless you're using all your crystals for weapon XP I guess, but even then it wouldn't amount to muhc).

Soothing Vapors
Mar 26, 2006

Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.
That ganyu trailer man

Mihoyo knows their audience

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012

i'm pretty sure you still need the full amount of ore to initiate the craft despite the game knowing you're using a refund character lol

anyway it's a pretty sad refund but the less ore i have to spend on things that aren't weapon exp, the better. i'm sure eventually the craftable roster will fill up with some good bs for other weapon types.

Nakar
Sep 2, 2002

Ultima Ratio Regum

AVeryLargeRadish posted:

Crescent pike really needs to be nerfed or something or it will be the only worthwhile DPS polearm for the rest of the life of the game, either that or they need to make all the current and future polearms completely broken so that they are at least worth considering over crescent.
Or they need to create Polearm users with high multipliers but a smaller number of slower-executing hits. That appeared to have been the idea for Rosaria (who had Diluc-esque multipliers but a similar 4 hit chain), but they pulled all her data and we don't know what they were planning with it or whether it'll change when she comes back.

Also it's looking like Hu Tao may suck with the Crescent Pike as she has bad Base ATK, converts her damage to Pyro, scales better with HP% (though if it just adds to her sheet ATK it could result in very powerful Pike hits), and wants to do Charged Attacks to apply her Pyro DoT. The 5 star Polearm she's been shown with is also extremely heavily tuned toward her (and Zhongli to a lesser extent) and is probably much better for them than the Crescent Pike. The relative value of the Pike is also significantly worse on a Pyro character with actual Pyro conversion (unlike Xiangling) because she can trigger a lot of Vaporizes or Melts and that's going to do way more damage than Pike procs.

Now, have I run the numbers for that on Hu Tao? I have not. She might turn out to also be really good with the Crescent Pike, I dunno. She only has one multihit so maybe, maybe not. If she wants to spam Charged Attacks while her skill's up and then switch out to let other people abuse her Crit Rate buff then I don't think she'll really want it.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

I LITERALLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO NOT BE A WEIRD SEXUAL CREEP ABOUT PREPUBESCENT ANIME GIRLS, READ ALL ABOUT IT HERE!!!

Nakar posted:

Or they need to create Polearm users with high multipliers but a smaller number of slower-executing hits. That appeared to have been the idea for Rosaria (who had Diluc-esque multipliers but a similar 4 hit chain), but they pulled all her data and we don't know what they were planning with it or whether it'll change when she comes back.

Also it's looking like Hu Tao may suck with the Crescent Pike as she has bad Base ATK, converts her damage to Pyro, scales better with HP% (though if it just adds to her sheet ATK it could result in very powerful Pike hits), and wants to do Charged Attacks to apply her Pyro DoT. The 5 star Polearm she's been shown with is also extremely heavily tuned toward her (and Zhongli to a lesser extent) and is probably much better for them than the Crescent Pike. The relative value of the Pike is also significantly worse on a Pyro character with actual Pyro conversion (unlike Xiangling) because she can trigger a lot of Vaporizes or Melts and that's going to do way more damage than Pike procs.

Now, have I run the numbers for that on Hu Tao? I have not. She might turn out to also be really good with the Crescent Pike, I dunno. She only has one multihit so maybe, maybe not. If she wants to spam Charged Attacks while her skill's up and then switch out to let other people abuse her Crit Rate buff then I don't think she'll really want it.

There are ways to design around pike but it just being there is massively restrictive. Plus from what I understand the melee weapons were supposed to differentiate based on attack speed, claymores being slow and hard hitting, swords being in the middle ground and polearms being quick, they could abandon that design choice but I doubt they want to.

S.J.
May 19, 2008

Just who the hell do you think we are?

AVeryLargeRadish posted:

There are ways to design around pike but it just being there is massively restrictive. Plus from what I understand the melee weapons were supposed to differentiate based on attack speed, claymores being slow and hard hitting, swords being in the middle ground and polearms being quick, they could abandon that design choice but I doubt they want to.

Polearms are also supposed to have a lot of forward reach, so that's something to play around with too

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012

they definitely screwed themselves with Pike but it does make me interested to see how they design around it, and Hu Tao seems like a promising first example. Albedo has also been an interesting character for similar reasons, so i'm optimistic i guess.

i wouldn't be surprised if Rosaria comes out and shows some even more disgusting Pike use though, being cryo. would be nice if the Dragonspine lived up to its seeming association with her though

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

A Pike character that had a lot of horizontal/vertical sweeps would be cool too. All of the ones we have so far are thrusters.

Blight Runner
May 3, 2009
Hi, I'm that example of the F2P user saving up gems. I'm currently AR51, just shy a few hundred exp until 52. Only rolled on the standard banner with all the freebie fates they gave out from battle pass. This is the first gacha I've played with pity mechanics, so it's really good to know you got a good shot if you save enough. I should really be trying to get some cryo or hydro users that aren't Kaeya or Barb but Hu Tao's characterization is just too fun to ignore rolling on.

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013

🐘🪠🍆

Okay this math is super helpful, I see where you're coming from.
There are some things I'd change though though.

The 582% atk is the level 6 attack talent but you're using the value for level 2(?) ult damage bonus (I assume that's where the 1.77 is coming from?). At talent level 6, the ult should give +86.4% attack damage, plus an additional 5-25% from his A1 passive. If we just take the minimum of 5, that gives +91.4%, so your multiplier should be 1.914, not 1.77.
On top of that, % increased normal attack damage (from Xiao ult or Gladiator set) should (AFAIK) stack multiplicatively with physical/elemental damage bonus, not additively.

Here's the numbers with those changes (differences bolded)

quote:

PHYSICAL% GOBLET
  • A physical hit does (1000*TalentMultiplier)*(1.928); the full attack string does 11221 damage.
  • A Burst-converted hit does (1000*TalentMultipler)*(1.914); the full attack string does 11,139 damage.
  • An R5 Crescent Pike bonus hit does (1000*0.4)*(1.928) or 771 damage.
  • The combined damage outside of Burst is 11221+(771*8) or 17389 damage. We can ignore Burst damage because it's a DPS loss (though it probably ramps up to better with the Ascension Talent after 6-9s, but I'd say that probably evens out).
  • Lemnistatic Wind Cycling does (1000*3.5392)*(1) or 3539 damage every 5 seconds.

ANEMO% GOBLET
  • A physical hit does (1000*TalentMultiplier)*(1.345); the full attack string does 7828 damage.
  • A Burst-converted hit does (1000*TalentMultiplier)*(1.914) * (1.466); the full attack string does 16,330 damage.
  • An R5 Crescent Pike bonus hit does (1000*0.4)*(1.345) or 538 damage.
  • The combined damage outside of Burst is 7828+(538*8) or 12132 damage. In Burst, it's 16330+(538*8) or 20634 damage.
  • Lemnistatic Wing Cycling does (1000*3.5392)*(1.466) or 5188 damage every 5 seconds.

If we add in the 35% normal attack damage bonus from Gladiator set as well (which probably stacks additively with Xiao's ult for a total of 91.4+35 = 126.4%), we get this:

quote:

PHYSICAL% GOBLET
  • A physical hit does (1000*TalentMultiplier)*(1.35)*(1.928); the full attack string does 15,148 damage.
  • A Burst-converted hit does (1000*TalentMultipler)*(2.264); the full attack string does 13,176 damage.
  • The combined damage outside of Burst is 15,148+(771*8) or 21316 damage.

ANEMO% GOBLET
  • A physical hit does (1000*TalentMultiplier)*(1.35) *(1.345); the full attack string does 10,568 damage.
  • A Burst-converted hit does (1000*TalentMultiplier)*(2.264) * (1.466); the full attack string does 19,317 damage.
  • The combined damage outside of Burst is 10,568+(538*8) or 14872 damage. In Burst, it's 19,317+(538*8) or 23621 damage.

RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Jan 6, 2021

S.J.
May 19, 2008

Just who the hell do you think we are?

Blight Runner posted:

Hi, I'm that example of the F2P user saving up gems. I'm currently AR51, just shy a few hundred exp until 52. Only rolled on the standard banner with all the freebie fates they gave out from battle pass. This is the first gacha I've played with pity mechanics, so it's really good to know you got a good shot if you save enough. I should really be trying to get some cryo or hydro users that aren't Kaeya or Barb but Hu Tao's characterization is just too fun to ignore rolling on.



What characters have you managed to pick up from your rolls so far?

Blight Runner
May 3, 2009
I drew 2 Fischls, and one each of: Razor, Ningguang, Sucrose, and Xiangling.

I got a Rust and Stringless somewhere in there, still leveling those up but gated by ascension mats. Game loves to give me 4star bows for some reason. Needless to say, I'm not really down for bow use as I prefer hack and slashing. For the longest time, Xiangling was my DPS carry, but Razor truly is best boi.

Currently trying to bring up Ningguang as my alternate DPS main with some Sucrose support.

Nakar
Sep 2, 2002

Ultima Ratio Regum

RPATDO_LAMD posted:

The 582% atk is the level 6 attack talent but you're using the value for level 2(?) ult damage bonus (I assume that's where the 1.77 is coming from?). At talent level 6, the ult should give +86.4% attack damage, plus an additional 5-25% from his A1 passive. If we just take the minimum of 5, that gives +91.4%, so your multiplier should be 1.914, not 1.77.
Xiao's damage bonus from Bane of All Evil is 77% at lv6, or so says the datamine website.

RPATDO_LAMD posted:

On top of that, % increased normal attack damage (from Xiao ult or Gladiator set) should (AFAIK) stack multiplicatively with physical/elemental damage bonus, not additively.
Damage bonuses of any sort are additive with one another, not multiplicative. The damage formula roughly generalizes as (ATK*TalentMultiplier)*(1+DMG%)*(1+(CR%*CD%)), ignoring stuff like reactions and defense of course. An Anemo-element Normal Attack with an Anemo% goblet and Gladiator 4pc bonus would have a DMG% multiplier of (1+0.466+0.35) or 1.816, as opposed to the multiplicative proposal of (1.46*1.35) or 1.971. This is why stacking all ATK% or DMG% tends to be worse than spreading it out and also why Crit stats are so important.

The Anemo% damage is probably a bit higher than listed factoring in the Ascension passive, but the Ascension passive also benefits Physical damage output because it applies to all of Xiao's damage, but you also have to figure Xiao can do more than one attack string in 5s and that it's unlikely you get the full 15s uptime on his Burst, both of which are going to favor Physical setups (even before Superconduct). Even throwing those factors in Anemo's favor it's kind of close, so I'm skeptical that Anemo is better for Crescent Pike unless you have very high Talent levels (or a very low refinement Pike, of course, as the further yours is from R5 the less you can expect out of it).

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013

🐘🪠🍆

Nakar posted:

Xiao's damage bonus from Bane of All Evil is 77% at lv6, or so says the datamine website.

Damage bonuses of any sort are additive with one another, not multiplicative. The damage formula roughly generalizes as (ATK*TalentMultiplier)*(1+DMG%)*(1+(CR%*CD%)), ignoring stuff like reactions and defense of course. An Anemo-element Normal Attack with an Anemo% goblet and Gladiator 4pc bonus would have a DMG% multiplier of (1+0.466+0.35) or 1.816, as opposed to the multiplicative proposal of (1.46*1.35) or 1.971. This is why stacking all ATK% or DMG% tends to be worse than spreading it out and also why Crit stats are so important.

The Anemo% damage is probably a bit higher than listed factoring in the Ascension passive, but the Ascension passive also benefits Physical damage output because it applies to all of Xiao's damage, but you also have to figure Xiao can do more than one attack string in 5s and that it's unlikely you get the full 15s uptime on his Burst, both of which are going to favor Physical setups (even before Superconduct). Even throwing those factors in Anemo's favor it's kind of close, so I'm skeptical that Anemo is better for Crescent Pike unless you have very high Talent levels (or a very low refinement Pike, of course, as the further yours is from R5 the less you can expect out of it).

Ah, I was looking at this wiki which claims to have numbers from the pre-release CBT2. The datamine site is probably more up to date.

Are you sure damage bonuses of separate types are additive? that sounds really weird and surprising to me
I agree that all those other factors like uptime etc are in favor of physical though.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
"All damage stacks additively" seems to contradict what people here often say about elemental damage on the cup being the single biggest boost in damage (which also tracks with my own personal experience).

I was under the impression that identical damage boosts stacked additively but distinct boosts stacked multiplicatively.

gandlethorpe
Aug 16, 2008

:gowron::m10:
Feels nice to be top tier this Abyss season :chillout:

https://i.imgur.com/pLIue4J.mp4

S.J.
May 19, 2008

Just who the hell do you think we are?

Clarste posted:

"All damage stacks additively" seems to contradict what people here often say about elemental damage on the cup being the single biggest boost in damage (which also tracks with my own personal experience).

I was under the impression that identical damage boosts stacked additively but distinct boosts stacked multiplicatively.

All similar damage types do, yes. I belive they're referring to the fact that Xiao's ult causes him to deal anemo damage with his attacks, so you go from a multiplicative damage element to additive with an anemo goblet.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the post, because yeah, you don't additively stack separate elemental damage types.

S.J. fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Jan 6, 2021

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

I LITERALLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO NOT BE A WEIRD SEXUAL CREEP ABOUT PREPUBESCENT ANIME GIRLS, READ ALL ABOUT IT HERE!!!

Clarste posted:

"All damage stacks additively" seems to contradict what people here often say about elemental damage on the cup being the single biggest boost in damage (which also tracks with my own personal experience).

I was under the impression that identical damage boosts stacked additively but distinct boosts stacked multiplicatively.

All damage boosts are indeed additive, ATK boosts are multiplicative on damage boosts which are then multiplied by crit damage if applicable, IIRC the formula is something like ((baseatk*atk%)+flatatk)*(dmg+dmg)*(critdmg+critdmg)*(resistance)

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013

🐘🪠🍆

S.J. posted:

All similar damage types do, yes. I belive they're referring to the fact that Xiao's ult causes him to deal anemo damage with his attacks, so you go from a multiplicative damage element to additive with an anemo goblet.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the post, because yeah, you don't additively stack separate elemental damage types.

The question is whether "Increased Anemo Damage" stacks additively or multiplicatively with "Increased Normal Attack Damage"
It's a big deal for Xiao who gets increased attack damage from his burst but it's also relevant to, say, Ganyu using the Wanderer set for increased charge attack damage along with a Cryo% goblet, or Diluc/Chongyun using the Gladiator 4pc set.

S.J.
May 19, 2008

Just who the hell do you think we are?

To clarify, the game differentiates between ATK and DMG bonuses

https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Damage

RPATDO_LAMD posted:

The question is whether "Increased Anemo Damage" stacks additively or multiplicatively with "Increased Normal Attack Damage"
It's a big deal for Xiao who gets increased attack damage from his burst but it's also relevant to, say, Ganyu using the Wanderer set for increased charge attack damage along with a Cryo% goblet, or Diluc/Chongyun using the Gladiator 4pc set.

I'm aware, I'm just waiting for Xiao to actually come out to see what's what, just trying to help clarify

Gaardean
May 28, 2012

I nerded out after reading a post on Reddit and made an Artifact Optimizer for figuring out the optimal ATK/Crit ratios, figured I'd toss it here for the other math freaks to look at. It uses impossibly maxed out artifacts at the base, but you can tune that down what % of max stats you want. The major inflection point around 60% artifact strength is probably the most interesting thing it illustrates.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
Okay seriously how badly run is the English team that a major mistranalation made it all the way to the final trailer cut?

(Reference to ganyu's heartbeat number)

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Qwertycoatl
Dec 31, 2008

Tae posted:

Okay seriously how badly run is the English team that a major mistranalation made it all the way to the final trailer cut?

(Reference to ganyu's heartbeat number)

What should it have been? "I've been awake for the last 4 hours or so" didn't seem all that impressive

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