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I tried playing seablock and I feel like something is off. I have essentially no ways of generating power besides the solar panels and accumulators I started with, I think the next step is buring wood from arboretums, but that seems like a way off and my power demands are already not being met. I looked online and there is talk of using wind turbines, but I didn't start with any and I don't see them in the tech tree.
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Jan 8, 2021 11:01
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kanonvandekempen posted:I tried playing seablock and I feel like something is off. I have essentially no ways of generating power besides the solar panels and accumulators I started with, I think the next step is buring wood from arboretums, but that seems like a way off and my power demands are already not being met. I looked online and there is talk of using wind turbines, but I didn't start with any and I don't see them in the tech tree. if you didn't start with wind turbines you probably messed up something during installation. are you playing brave new world? you absolutely start with like 20-30 i believe, a nice handful. no solar panels. power after that is commonly made from green algae->charcoal, the tree route is more commonly used for circuit boards
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Jan 8, 2021 11:49
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 started running into space issues so now i restarted with a better plan in mind. way more room for iron and stuff, and more lanes to split off of when i can poo poo out enough material to fill them. 1 didnt seem to be working.
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Jan 8, 2021 15:59
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queeb posted:
Not sure if you're aware, but this style of base design is called a "main bus" and is super popular and really powerful! The hardest part is figuring out what to put on the bus and what to make locally in each mini-factory that is fed from the bus. Iron, Copper, and Green Circuits is a drat good start. I typically aim for four iron, four copper, and two green circuit lanes, so you're even pretty close to what I'd do! That carries me through a long time.
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Jan 8, 2021 16:16
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About 120 hours into a multiplayer space exploration game (which, to be fair, was not a space exploration game until we added it halfway through) and finally getting to making rocket science. This goddamn mod
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Jan 8, 2021 16:25
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Is there a mod or a public save that starts me with a basic mall, both kinds of bots, and automated production of everything related to a logistics network?
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Jan 8, 2021 16:29
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There's definitely a handful of "advanced start" mods out there, not sure what the most popular one is though.
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Jan 8, 2021 16:30
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ConfusedUs posted:Not sure if you're aware, but this style of base design is called a "main bus" and is super popular and really powerful! The hardest part is figuring out what to put on the bus and what to make locally in each mini-factory that is fed from the bus. I realized how much stuff needed basically all those things, i was making green chips like every freggin building area so i figured id toss those out. are gears worth mass producing?
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Jan 8, 2021 16:51
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ConfusedUs posted:Is there a mod or a public save that starts me with a basic mall, both kinds of bots, and automated production of everything related to a logistics network? I mean I can make you one?
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Jan 8, 2021 16:53
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queeb posted:I realized how much stuff needed basically all those things, i was making green chips like every freggin building area so i figured id toss those out. are gears worth mass producing? People debate busing gears vs. making them on site and it tends to be a personal preferance. I've always made them on site but it can be very iron hungry when I need a lot of belts. I'm not sure if bussing them in would be better.
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Jan 8, 2021 17:14
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I land on the "build in situ" side, but very little that actually needs gears gets mass produced for me. Red science gets them made in situ because it's just easy that way, mall is low speed so limited gear production there isn't an issue (if a box in the mall is going to be at capacity for hours at a time, does the speed it refills at really matter 99% of the time?). I can't think of anywhere else gears are used that I wouldn't be purpose crafting anyway and thus not needing a bus line.
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Jan 8, 2021 17:16
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queeb posted:I realized how much stuff needed basically all those things, i was making green chips like every freggin building area so i figured id toss those out. are gears worth mass producing? I tend to make them on-site. One gear assembler is enough to feed a lot of other assemblers (at least until mid/late game), so I generally just plop one of those down in the minifactory and use it to feed whatever needs gears.
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Jan 8, 2021 17:19
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A lot of things need gears but it never feels like a lot like green circuits. By the time you want bulk gears you can ship whole train cars of them to where you need them.
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Jan 8, 2021 17:22
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Making them on-site is logistically easier (fewer distinct resources getting bussed around), but one yellow belt of gears is worth one red belt of iron so there's an argument for doing that as early as possible. Contrast it with copper cable, where there's no debate at all and everyone agrees you should make it on site, since it actually takes up more space on the bus than the copper plate you make it from.
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Jan 8, 2021 17:25
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zedprime posted:A lot of things need gears but it never feels like a lot like green circuits. By the time you want bulk gears you can ship whole train cars of them to where you need them. Blue belts are extremely gear-hungry, and even reds are pretty demanding. I still wouldn't suggest bussing gears, at least not on normal recipes. It makes your bus more complicated, gears are easy to build in-place (unlike, say, circuits) and 2:1 isn't a lot of extra compression.
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Jan 8, 2021 17:31
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IMO gears are well worth bussing just because there is SO much that uses them, second only to green circuits, and they get used in mass quantities. Inserter production needs them, belt production needs them, half your other mall products need them, blue and orange science need them... It's a LOT of extra space for both iron lanes and for assemblers to not bus them. Bussing also gives you a bit of backlog on your production so things can keep flowing in those mid game times where your iron income is below your total production capacity but you want a few underground reds to pop out without stopping science. It also means you can give yourself room to scale up your gear production as your factory expands, the same way you do with greens production.
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Jan 8, 2021 17:55
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The "extra space" being mentioned there is belting iron gears compresses the iron plate "capacity"; the recipe is 2 iron plates. For example on a full red belt, there can be 60 iron plates worth of iron gears before its fully saturated versus only 30 iron plates on their own. It's the opposite reason for belting copper wire.
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Jan 8, 2021 18:16
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queeb posted:I realized how much stuff needed basically all those things, i was making green chips like every freggin building area so i figured id toss those out. are gears worth mass producing? My current game* was the first time I decided to bus iron gears instead of building them in situ. Simple as their assembly may be, I now come down hard on the side of busing them, mainly because they're used loving everywhere Other simple one-ingredient crafts, though (iron sticks, copper wire), I still build in-situ. Iron gears are something of an outlier in this particular * (soon-to-be-previous, I think - have some bootstrap-factory organization errors that're too fundamental to correct easily) (edit) There's also build ratios - personally, I don't care about ratios for ingredients coming off of the bus; as long as the supplier of that bus lane can keep up (or is easily expandable), it's all good. I try to get the ratios right within each assembly area - e.g. 1 wire:6 red cards - just not the assembly's inputs, if that makes sense Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jan 8, 2021 |
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Jan 8, 2021 18:20
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Is anybody else playing Industrial Revolution 2? I'm up to yellow science and having some issues with the advanced ores and wondering if anybody has a good solution for them. Basically, each type of ore has a secondary type of ore that can be acquired by washing the base ore with either water or acid. For instance, copper ore can be washed to get nickel ore. Washing with water gives a large amount of base ore and a small amount of the advanced ore. Washing with acid gives more of the advanced ore and less of the base ore but takes a ton of acid (seriously, it's 1000 sulfuric acid to give a 50% chance of 1 base ore and I think 75% chance of one advanced ore). The issue is that the demands for the advanced ore are so high that I'm producing more base ore than I need with water washing but I literally can't produce enough acid to keep up with acid washing. (Oil production works differently, you can't just crack all of your oils to one type). This is made even worse because none of the above steps can take production modules for some dumb modder reason. Just typing this has helped a bit as I don't think I've tried production modules in sulfuric acid plants. And aww crap I forgot about the incinerators I could maybe use to destroy excess base ore. Still, it's pretty annoying and while I really enjoyed the original mod, I'm not enjoying this one near as much.
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Jan 8, 2021 19:21
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lol i have no idea what im doing here, its so ugly but it works getting the poo poo necessary for green science in one location, a knot tangle of belts
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Jan 8, 2021 20:06
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In some of the bigger factories I've done I've bussed gears simply because I ran out of room on my bus and needed to get more iron throughput. By putting a gear assembly station at the top of the bus and bringing all the iron for that in from the side so that mass of iron plates wasn't on the bus ever, I was able to massively increase the overall flow of 'iron' down the bus since 4 blue lanes of gears effectively frees up 4 blue lanes that would have been used to carry the iron plates (8 belts of iron plates required to make 4 belts of gears). I don't think I ever used 4 full belts of gears, but I know I've been well into the 3rd blue belt with gears. I haven't bussed gears in most of my games, but it's definitely a viable strategy.
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Jan 8, 2021 20:19
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Also maybe everybody knows but just worth saying - some mods that are pretty big but not quite bobs/angels/pyanodon's still tend to mess with some of those basic recipes, like AAI (used for space exploration) makes gears 1 iron plate. So if you're using some mods you haven't used in a while definitely recheck some of your basic assumptions first.
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Jan 8, 2021 20:30
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queeb posted:lol i have no idea what im doing here, its so ugly but it works Same deal as before- if it works it's good. What's your plan to expand it if you need it, or are you just planning on replacing your infrastructure entirely once you've bootstrapped up?
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Jan 8, 2021 20:45
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utamaru posted:if you didn't start with wind turbines you probably messed up something during installation. are you playing brave new world? you absolutely start with like 20-30 i believe, a nice handful. no solar panels. The 1.1 update to Seablock replaced the starting wind generators with solar and accumulators. But yes, algae is the next step on the power ladder, it kinda sucks but it will get you through until you can start squeezing beans to make fuel oil.
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Jan 8, 2021 20:46
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SkyeAuroline posted:Same deal as before- if it works it's good. What's your plan to expand it if you need it, or are you just planning on replacing your infrastructure entirely once you've bootstrapped up? i can continue to the right with assemblers, i can probably squeeze like 8 green science assemblers off those belts and inserters.. i think.
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Jan 8, 2021 20:55
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Checking before I start a new map. If I set biters to peaceful and non-expanding, and I were to keep moving in one direction, would I keep running into biters? Or do they/the map eventually run out? I don't want to deal with biters but I do still want targets eventually 
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Jan 8, 2021 21:42
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Expansion controls whether biters make new bases. This does not affect whether more biter bases are spawned as new chunks are generated - that is determined by biters being on or off and the associated sliders. I personally find expansion REALLY enjoyable, but not everyone does. The further you go from spawn the crazier things get, both in terms of ore patch density and biter density. The map is effectively infinite, you are not going to run out of map. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Jan 8, 2021 |
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Jan 8, 2021 21:45
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Got it, thanks. I don't particularly care for the pollution->tower defense gameplay, as much as I want to play with explosions etc, so I appreciate that everything's that configurable
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Jan 8, 2021 21:49
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lol man. every time i think oh yeah, i have a lot of production now, its like yeah nah. I love it. Heres where im at now:  going to get steel going. im assuming im going to want to belt steel? seems like an upgrade to iron for most stuff
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Jan 8, 2021 22:10
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queeb posted:lol man. every time i think oh yeah, i have a lot of production now, its like yeah nah. I love it. Yeah, but you won't need more than one steel belt for ages. Do keep in mind that it takes a LOT of iron to make steel
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Jan 8, 2021 22:43
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Nice work. As an intermediate goal see if you can completely cover those patches with miners and consume all that output.
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Jan 8, 2021 22:44
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Xerophyte posted:Blue belts are extremely gear-hungry, and even reds are pretty demanding. I still wouldn't suggest bussing gears, at least not on normal recipes. It makes your bus more complicated, gears are easy to build in-place (unlike, say, circuits) and 2:1 isn't a lot of extra compression. Circuits are deceptively easy to build in place if you don't know about what happens when red, blue, and mods come around. Most of your green circuits use before that doesn't lose a lot with imperfect copper to green circuits ratios and you generally use both copper and iron in such lines. Anyway to give a direct example of why I ddidnt bus gears in my most recent game, I was getting set up to basically have Bus 2 (the sequel to bus) running parallel but stood off from where factories were so I could supply green circuits and gears (circuits would be on bus 1 and 2 both with bus 2 having very easy access to the core of my red/blue/module factories) from off site factories without screwing with the original bite size 2-3 lane buses I used to launch the rocket. The sort of stuff you need to liberate reams of iron by compressing them to gears come after you unlock easy off-siting through nuclear/solar and trains and by the time trains are involved you also get a few more options in how you supply your factories surrounding your bus 1 nougat center as you transition to more train/loginet designs. I'm also wondering if it's just a bus tautology where you need the gear bus to feed the gear bus to upgrade the gear bus
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Jan 9, 2021 00:52
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One argument against busing gears is that the main things that need them (belts, inserters) also need iron plate. same for engines (pipes + gears) and electric miners (plate). I do bus iron gears but on like a side-mall bus vs a main bus. It is basically me copying the speedrunners (nefrums / anti) build of a belt of iron next to a mixed belt of gears + electronic circuits. Those two belts side by side get you pretty far early game! deltah fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Jan 9, 2021 |
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Jan 9, 2021 02:06
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zedprime posted:I'm also wondering if it's just a bus tautology where you need the gear bus to feed the gear bus to upgrade the gear bus oh god 
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Jan 9, 2021 02:34
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deltah posted:One argument against busing gears is that the main things that need them (belts, inserters) also need iron plate. same for engines (pipes + gears) and electric miners (plate). To further over-analyze this, the main trade you make is a wider overall bus by sticking to iron plates vs having more complex branching by belting an additional type of item on there. Which is the lesser hassle depends a lot on how the rest of your factory works. If you have a standardized mall blueprint with a marked gears-enter-here belt then bussing gears makes more sense. If your "mall" is an ad hoc grab-bag of assemblers that you build next to your bus and send stuff into then bussing gears makes less sense. There's also a lesser cost in that dedicated gear belts are less flexible: if gear demand is low and plate demand is high then gear belts don't help with the plate consumers, whereas if you're just bussing plates it doesn't matter what type is ultimately demanded. That probably matters little in practice. I find dragging a couple extra belt lanes worth of iron to be less annoying than dealing with another item type on the bus and having new branch points that get in the way of my undergrounds. Mileage will vary, and it's not a terribly important choice.
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Jan 9, 2021 02:38
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Xerophyte posted:To further over-analyze this, the main trade you make is a wider overall bus by sticking to iron plates vs having more complex branching by belting an additional type of item on there. This maps exactly to my current base but replace bus with trains + outposts. I wanted to explore the 1.1 train stuff and make outposts dedicated to green circuits, red circuits, plastic, etc. So when I make the red circuit base I have a stop asking for copper (or more likely, I mine copper on site), green circuits, and plastic. Repeat for blue circuits (red + green + sulfur), etc. It ended up with my play style (blueprint lite, copy / paste heavy) it was too much work to pick and choose from 5-10 outposts on what to build and how to balance the production and requirements between them. For example if I'm low on blue circuits I might have to build a new red circuit base, which then might cascade into building a new green circuit base, which then might cascade into building a new copper mine, etc. Instead I switched to just having "raw" resource outposts which are easy to copy / paste (miner + smelters) and then the green circuit, red circuit, blue circuit outposts all independently start from copper + plate (+ plastic or sulfur). If I find I don't have enough red circuits I scale up the red circuit outpost which only means asking for more copper / iron / plastic vs needing to do a cascade to green circuits and then copper / iron. The negative of this is that you lose the compression benefits of making green circuits next to a copper patch or something and instead have to train all the plates around. This ended up causing too much congestion for coal => plastic as initially I was making plastic at intermediate bases and there is no compression benefits of plastic (a train of coal makes a train of plastic ... more than 1 once you get prod modules). I switched to doing plastic on site at coal using coal liquefaction so it ended up being a kind of "onsite smelting" in a way (plus needing a shitton of water). I'm also torn if you smelt steel on site vs having a big rear end steel smelter as another specialized outpost (like the green circuit base). It's one more thing to balance demand on, but it also compresses so well and its just that 1 ingredient. deltah fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Jan 9, 2021 |
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Jan 9, 2021 02:56
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queeb posted:lol man. every time i think oh yeah, i have a lot of production now, its like yeah nah. I love it. Go bigger! You're gonna need a lot more even at the early stage - here's what I have just past the steel smelter stage. By the time you get to bots and electric smelters you'll probably want 2 or 3 times this. 
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Jan 9, 2021 03:04
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Taffer posted:Go bigger! You're gonna need a lot more even at the early stage - here's what I have just past the steel smelter stage. By the time you get to bots and electric smelters you'll probably want 2 or 3 times this. How would you lay out electric smelters for efficiency? I'm just vetting my own answer against others', I'm happy with my approach (mostly).
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Jan 9, 2021 03:08
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how do you cut and paste stuff/ im assuming that comes once you get robots?
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Jan 9, 2021 03:12
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SkyeAuroline posted:How would you lay out electric smelters for efficiency? I'm just vetting my own answer against others', I'm happy with my approach (mostly). Electric smelters generally aren't worth it until you are adding modules. They produce at the same rate as steel and are more expensive from a fuel/power perspective. The same layout would work, but sized for 3x3 instead of 2x2. They take up a lot more space if you aren't using modules and beacons.
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Jan 9, 2021 03:17
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