|
Blockhouse posted:There's a vast gulf between a show presenting an unsympathetic protagonist and using that as a starting point to tell a story about self-improvement (like Re:Zero for instance) or falling even further (Breaking Bad, since someone already mentioned that), and what Mushoku Tensei does, which is operating under the assumption making its protagonist act like the most bottom-of-the-barrel otaku shitbag immediately makes him sympathetic to the target audience of bottom-of-the-barrel otaku shitbags and that spending ten minutes on a baby with the mind of a 34 year old internal monologuing about how hot his mom is is comedy gold rather than anything to actually be examined. The tone of the story does not present any awareness that the protagonist is unsympathetic. at the very least, considering basically every modern isekai is copying this one, the assumption was correct ;p
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 12:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 18:33 |
|
|
Irony Be My Shield posted:Liking a series means that you support everything the main character does and thinks. ESPECIALLY if it's at the start of the series before they've undergone character development There's a difference between a flawed character with compelling development and unlikable piece of trash who might get better one of these days. Personally I have a very hard time following a show when I don't like the mc Motto posted:On that note, it was pretty funny seeing the ANN anime guys go on about Tomozaki being incel PUA propaganda while the lady they have handle a lot of LN reporting was tweeting about what she liked about the series. I don't see how these two things are related, unless you're saying that if a woman likes a thing, it cannot be sexist or something
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 12:37
|
|
|
i think the same site reporting something as literal incel propaganda but also having someone else on the site promoting it and saying its good, feels pretty silly. its one thing if they just didnt like it or said it was sexist but going into fullblown 'this is damaging for society' stuff is pretty wild. then again i dont really get why people are calling tomozaki incel/pua propaganda in general. the entire first ep is a girl going 'you're throwing a pity party for yourself, why not clean yourself up a bit and get a girlfriend.' thats literally the opposite of the thing theyre describing then again ann is basically a goldmine of the stupidest possible opinions
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 12:42
|
|
|
Yeah theres a big gap between someone like subaru from rezero whos just kind of an understandable fuckup and the mushoku guy, who in the first episode says "drat, this girl probably doesnt even have pubic hair yet. must be middle school aged. i gotta Wife her." stuff with unlikable/unrelatable protagonists generally try to center their personality in something you can at least understand. a really lovely amount of pride, or self-centeredness or w/e. even if mushoku is going for 'this guy can't relate to women at all', which it seems like is maybe the idea, establishing that through his Adult Brain being hyperhorny for a middle schooler is a really bad way of doing it
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 12:49
|
|
|
Why get upset at warnings that "this mc is a piece of poo poo who never gets any better"? That might technically be a spoiler, but it's also something I'd really like a heads up on so I'm not wasting my time Even though we didn't need one for this show because it's right there in the description. Jackard fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Jan 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 13:06
|
|
|
anyway light novels are cool. someone has to adapt strange/fake eventually
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 13:09
|
|
|
Varinn posted:anyway light novels are cool. someone has to adapt strange/fake eventually which, lol
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 13:10
|
|
|
Endorph posted:i dont think the strange/fake guy wants an adaptation until its done in i think the afterward of the last book he apologized for being in the hospital because it delayed the release. he's really gotta take care of himself but since the new one introduced even more people im expecting it to be on ufotables 2049 release schedule lmao
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 13:16
|
|
|
Narita is always introducing new characters even as he's ending a series so that means very little! However, he's also a pro at not ending things so 2049 is still a sound prediction.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 13:33
|
|
|
So what’s the difference between this guy and say Walter White from breaking bad? The latter is an absolute piece of garbage who gets worse as the show goes on and gets to be more successful as a criminal.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 13:51
|
|
|
Jackard posted:Why get upset at warnings that "this mc is a piece of poo poo who never gets any better"? I mean I could say the core conceit is that he does struggle with improving himself, cause he constantly regrets how his last life went especially in regards with his family. But also people don’t automatically just stop being who they were at just one revelation, so he will relapse and retain his parts of his nature. But the discourse is one-sidedly handwringing about it I don’t really see much point in arguing it. There is some criticism to be made that the story is having its cake and eating it too, since it still a power fantasy at heart, but the story itself intends for him to struggle till the end until he can look back on his second life and say he did as good of a job as he could have.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 13:58
|
|
|
Nitrousoxide posted:So what’s the difference between this guy and say Walter White from breaking bad? The latter is an absolute piece of garbage who gets worse as the show goes on and gets to be more successful as a criminal. theres nothing more worn out on the internet than breaking bad discourse so i dont want to belabor the point but, at least for me specifically, the difference is 1) the weird horny for a middle schooler poo poo 2) the part people always ignore about breaking bad is that it has two main characters. the show doesn't work without jesse. he's the sympathetic one for the audience to relate to, a guy whos made bad choices but isnt irredeemable who then gets pulled into the lovely whirlpool of walt's personality. the dynamic is the tragedy. if someone wants to make the case that mushoku tensei does this, i think thats valid, but the combination of the two things makes it hard to want to stick around to find out. i cant speak for other people but I think that point always gets lost in the 'hows this different from breaking bad' thing, which comes up all the time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 14:06
|
|
|
Nitrousoxide posted:So what’s the difference between this guy and say Walter White from breaking bad? The latter is an absolute piece of garbage who gets worse as the show goes on and gets to be more successful as a criminal. Walter White is a character who starts out as a victim with noble intentions and then spends several seasons of Breaking Bad gradually sliding into evil because of his hamartia. This is the literal diametrical opposite to having someone start out as a garbage person and then improve or stagnate.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 14:19
|
|
|
I mean the core idea is basically take your sterotypical gross otaku shut-in and throw him into a Dragon Quest V narrative. His internal struggle of making up for what he did to his previous family becomes his external struggle of reuniting his broken family and then protecting his new family as best he can. The problem with aping dragon quest v though, is it relies on that long timespan to progress its plot, and most people don’t feel like sticking with a gross MC who doesn’t seem like he’s changing. Arguably he doesn’t change that much, but at the same time he ends up having to take up responsibilities when his own family and children are on the line so he’s forced to mature to some degree in that respect. Also it’s unlikely the anime will reach that point without additional seasons so my point is moot.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 14:45
|
|
|
the guy made an off color otaku joke in his head and was part of a pantyshot gag in the same episode where he died saving some teens from getting run over i feel like the level of trash he is at this point is being a bit overstated lol
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 15:02
|
|
|
the 'throw my pc in the bathtub' joke in the slime first episode was a way better and funnier way to get the same idea across imo
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 15:16
|
|
|
dogsicle posted:the guy made an off color otaku joke in his head and was part of a pantyshot gag in the same episode where he died saving some teens from getting run over Someone posted spoilers that he does not get better and apparently marries the loli, who doesn't get aged up. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Jan 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 15:31
|
|
|
hmm, it's too bad i don't care about spoilers or other contextless plot information, least of all when we're discussing an adaptation that could present things in any number of different ways
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 15:37
|
|
|
Hooray, more passwords. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 16:42
|
|
|
macabresca posted:I don't see how these two things are related, unless you're saying that if a woman likes a thing, it cannot be sexist or something What Endorph said, basically. My issue isn't with criticism, just that it's always odd when ANN writers seemingly never tap their coworkers to inform their own perspectives. They can still disagree on interpretation or execution, but it always feels silly how prone they are to making "how can you know what it's doing" arguments then ignoring or resenting anyone trying to tell them. Though the larger issue is really the whole nature of the preview guide where they have all hands on deck lay out a take on precisely one episode and try to guess at a show's trajectory.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 17:19
|
|
|
I haven't watched the show but I don't think it's particularly weird that people are responding more poorly than usual to a character whose inner monologue casually speculates about the thickness of an underage-looking character's bush. I'd be more than a little grossed-out even if he were speculating about an adult character's bush!
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 17:38
|
|
|
Log Horizon and Dr Stone get the heck out here already, please
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 17:42
|
|
|
This show sounds gross, but idk how much point there is in going around in circles about it in the season thread. Protagonist development and motivations would be a good discussion for the show's own thread so people can get more in-depth there, and if you put some content warnings in the OP for folks so they don't stumble into loli jokes unaware then that would solve that problem as well? In general I'm a fan of content warnings because I hate getting blindsided by content that I don't like, but also it's generally really easy to tell what an isekai show/manga is going to get up to if you check promo images and plot summaries so I recommend that people who are sensitive to certain things do some research on potential shows even if that means spoiling yourself on stuff. I hate reading things with a lot of character death, for instance, so I often spoil myself via plot summaries if I suspect something might go in that direction so I know whether or not I should just bail on it. Don't think any of the ones I like have gotten anime adaptions yet but it's completely possible to read isekai manga and avoid ecchi stuff, I do it all the time. Speaking of ANN reviewers it was rad that across three different reviews for Kemono Jihen I read, none of them bothered to spell Kabane's name right.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 18:35
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:I mean, it would certainly be nice to know why goons ITT are getting hyped about a show where the protagonist has this as his inner monologue in the first episode: He's gonna be real upset next week when he has to review the next Yashahime episode
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 19:14
|
|
|
I frequently like shows with characters that I would really dislike in real life, because usually the show is doing something interesting or entertaining with the character, and I do not have to want to be friends with a character to find them entertaining to see on screen. Characters that are, for example, pedophiles are a different conversation entirely, because then the issue is not "do I like this character?" But rather "do I like this show where the writer decided to introduce pedophilia as a major character point" And no, if the writers want to introduce something like that into the story at all they better be doing some pretty drat good work with it. At that point it isnt a "can I handle unlikable characters" problem, it's a "why did the writers choose to make pedophilia a part of this story?" problem
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 19:32
|
|
|
the paradox of the ANN approach is when your job is to watch every single show, you don't have any incentive to do the quick research beforehand to gain useful context
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 19:47
|
|
|
ninjewtsu posted:I frequently like shows with characters that I would really dislike in real life, because usually the show is doing something interesting or entertaining with the character, and I do not have to want to be friends with a character to find them entertaining to see on screen.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 20:20
|
|
|
Tales of Woe posted:the paradox of the ANN approach is when your job is to watch every single show, you don't have any incentive to do the quick research beforehand to gain useful context like that one reviewer who outright made poo poo up about love me for who i am to justify calling it transphobic actually not to harp on ann too much but ill always remember when they published an advertisement for a real life cult, the guy who translated dies irae made fun of them for it, and multiple ann editors circled the wagons to call him a literal nazi Endorph fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Jan 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 20:24
|
|
|
Endorph posted:tbf these people wouldnt do research or want context anyway, useless indignation is basically the ann special I'm not even necessarily saying you're wrong about these specific incidents (because no way am I going to dig through the ANN forums on my own to verify who said what), but your "Actually it's the thing you like that's problematic, not the thing you hate/the thing I like" shtick is pretty tiresome at this point.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 21:05
|
|
|
here's something problematic. i got my backer's copy of the new bean bandit, and they didn't include subs for the japanese audio track
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 21:09
|
|
|
In true bean fashion, they're using this as a teaching experience. If you want the bean, learn Japanese yourself.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 21:16
|
|
|
https://i.imgur.com/LC992Xr.webm
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 21:26
|
|
|
Okay that is cute as hell. I need to catch up on Non Non Byori.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 22:45
|
|
|
I couldn't see anyone posting about this show from what I saw scrolling through but what the heck is up with EX-ARM I'm about 10m into the first episode and the audio is mixed really weirdly, and half the characters are drawn and half are cgi models and i'm pretty confused. Did they run out of time? Is this a deliberate style choice???
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 00:17
|
|
|
Otherside Picnic ep 2 Alas poor Stalker guy. You might know your chernobyl-set videogames, but this is an anime.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 00:19
|
|
|
Pyronic posted:I couldn't see anyone posting about this show from what I saw scrolling through but what the heck is up with EX-ARM I'm about 10m into the first episode and the audio is mixed really weirdly, and half the characters are drawn and half are cgi models and i'm pretty confused. Did they run out of time? Is this a deliberate style choice??? https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2020-11-09/why-does-the-crunchyroll-original-series-ex-arm-look-so-awful/.166117 The short version is they got a bunch of people who have never made an anime before to make an anime.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 00:20
|
|
|
Pyronic posted:I couldn't see anyone posting about this show from what I saw scrolling through but what the heck is up with EX-ARM I'm about 10m into the first episode and the audio is mixed really weirdly, and half the characters are drawn and half are cgi models and i'm pretty confused. Did they run out of time? Is this a deliberate style choice??? they let a live action tv director/staff attempt to make a cgi anime with no experience. very weird situation but its basically been a laughing stock since the first trailer dropped
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 00:21
|
|
|
Sindai posted:https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2020-11-09/why-does-the-crunchyroll-original-series-ex-arm-look-so-awful/.166117 It's the Manos: The Hands of Fate of anime
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 00:21
|
|
|
Sindai posted:https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2020-11-09/why-does-the-crunchyroll-original-series-ex-arm-look-so-awful/.166117 Oh god, that explains so much. I was just about to make some RWBY comparisons.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 00:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 18:33 |
|
|
I wonder how people like that manage to get away with "my lack of experience in this field is actually an asset!" on their resumes. That's sure never worked for me.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 00:32
|
|
