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Persona 2 gameplay isn't particularly smooth or respectful of your time, but it's not 'trash' Persona 1 is trash. That poo poo is unplayable and it was back in 199stupid too.
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Jan 12, 2021 22:24
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After finishing the Persona 3 movies the other day, I went straight into P3 Portable because I have never actually done the FemMC route. After a couple of hours in, it kinda sucks that she’s gotten done so dirty so far besides I guess Q2. She still kinda fits the theme for me so far because it’s just another valid approach to life to deal with all of the baggage the P3 MCs have; she’s just trying to be optimistic when she’s clearly been dealt a poo poo hand in life. Plus Yukari and Junpei seem to act less like total weirdos so far than originally
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Jan 12, 2021 22:38
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DemoneeHo posted:Isn't that more of a problem with the game devs not realizing boys can be friends with girls until it was too late, and not a characterization issue? It's kind of a weird point when Junpei/Yukari and Mitsuru/Akihiko are right in the game.
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Jan 12, 2021 22:47
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I think people put far too much stock in what was probably meant as a joke answer in the interview or whatever.
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Jan 12, 2021 22:49
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Tae posted:There's definitely people that said they preferred OG nier's gameplay over Auto, though here It is better.
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Jan 12, 2021 22:50
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At the very least I had a far easier time going back to Innocent Sin in recent years than I did with say, playing Breath of Fire 3 for the first time. But I would presume almost no one would bat an eye at BOF3 being included on a PS1 RPG shortlist; I guess more tragically that series just never had the chance to get its own P3/P4/P5 revival to supplant it. P2 is a game you can more or less set on autopilot after a point where you can bounce back and forth between using Fusion spells to clear battles for XP and Contact negotiation to farm cards and recover SP, basically making most dungeons more or less stress free. If you had to ask me straight up yes I do prefer the overall direction that Atlus went with afterwards for combat because the real plus is the social link/calendar system and it makes sense to put more effort into those systems rather than overcomplicate the rest; but at the same time I don't think that somehow retroactively makes P2 worthless and as I continue to find myself increasingly disillusioned and disappointed with Atlus' later stories it makes me pine for a time where they were far more talented and ambitious with what they were willing to pen. People don't have to prefer the way something like P2 plays vs. the rest but I think it's a worthwhile data point when Atlus almost assuredly fucks up whatever Persona 6 ends up being like.
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Jan 12, 2021 22:50
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e:-
Motto fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 12, 2021 23:06
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if they wanted people to care about p2 they shouldve made it better like the ones after it
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Jan 12, 2021 23:18
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Motto posted:Too bad they're going back to make it bad too smh Are they messing with the gameplay? the fucl.....!!!!!!
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Jan 12, 2021 23:21
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Stux posted:if they wanted people to care about p2 they shouldve made it better like the ones after it what the.........
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Jan 12, 2021 23:25
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I think people put far too much stock in what was probably meant as a joke answer in the interview or whatever. I mean, that interview line would still not only explain why every opposite sex social link for Male P3 lead had to be romantic, but also why a vast majority of similar social links in P4 and P5 were the MC letting the girl down gently in Rank 8 or 9 if you didn't want to romance rather than just.... maybe romance was never really on the table in this friendship depending on stuff done early in the link or something
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Jan 12, 2021 23:28
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persona 2 is cool but i'd say the gameplay (in the PSP versions at least) is at the absolute edge of playable and aged ok (unlike 1) raidou is cool but i can see why his design is kinda iffy nowadays in some regions (hmm... raidou 3 where raidou murks all of imperial japans govt and gets a sick new uniform at the end??) hashinos a total loser, who sucks
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Jan 12, 2021 23:36
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Atlus published 13 Sentinels in both japan and america, and that game has a character in the exact same kind of outfit.
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Jan 12, 2021 23:40
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NikkolasKing posted:My understanding of the behind the scenes stuff is that it was indeed intended to be one story but they could not fit it all in one game sow e got two. I'm not saying you're wrong or anything but I don't think I've run into anyone who prefers IS over EP before. MonsieurChoc posted:Eternal Punishment has the better party and music, so I prefer it overall. I love every party member in EP so much
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Jan 12, 2021 23:48
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raidous in the nocturne port instead of dante lol
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Jan 12, 2021 23:56
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The P3MC is good actually because he made 16 year old me accept that I liked guysStux posted:raidous in the nocturne port instead of dante lol They both are...
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Jan 12, 2021 23:57
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Acerbatus posted:I love every party member in EP so much Ulala's easily one of my favorite jRPG characters ever. For such a dramatic personality, I love how mundane her personal baggage is.
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Jan 13, 2021 00:04
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I think people ar ebeing unfairly harsh to the P2 gameplay, but the game would definitely be betetr if it had a better battle system.
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Jan 13, 2021 00:04
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Saagonsa posted:The P3MC is good actually because he made 16 year old me accept that I liked guys yeah but raidou is the default and if it was an issue with raidou he would just not be in it as they couldve clearly just used dante and not had him
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Jan 13, 2021 00:05
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Stux posted:yeah but raidou is the default and if it was an issue with raidou he would just not be in it as they couldve clearly just used dante and not had him Actually they don't use Raidou in the countries where what he represents is a problem. It's actually rather clever; because there isn't a guest-less version of Maniax (the updated release of SMT3 that was released internationally as Nocturne), the base version of the game in China and Korea is the original without the bonus content like the Amala Labyrinth, and buying Dante updates the game to the Maniax version we're familiar with.
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Jan 13, 2021 00:10
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Stux posted:yeah but raidou is the default and if it was an issue with raidou he would just not be in it as they couldve clearly just used dante and not had him They literally did that tho
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Jan 13, 2021 00:13
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I liked Ulala but that's about it unless Ellie counts. Don't care for Baofu or Katsuya much and Silent Maya is just bad. Meanwhile I loved every character in IS to pieces and their dynamic was perfect. It's probably no coincidence my two favorite Personas are Innocent Sin and P4G. Both games revolve around a loving band of friends where the core appeal of the game is the bond they all share. That is very much lacking in EP. Which is to be expected as they aren't old friends like the IS crew. But I guess I'm just saying what I prefer in my Persona games. And SMT given my love for IVA and DeSu 2 which have a similar thing going on albeit in an even more compelling way because it's made to fit into SMT alignments and the like. Hence why I like to say IVA is the best Persona game. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 00:18
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wait.............. are u telling me when it comes out here it will be no raidou.................
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Jan 13, 2021 00:22
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Nate RFB posted:At the very least I had a far easier time going back to Innocent Sin in recent years than I did with say, playing Breath of Fire 3 for the first time. But I would presume almost no one would bat an eye at BOF3 being included on a PS1 RPG shortlist; I guess more tragically that series just never had the chance to get its own P3/P4/P5 revival to supplant it. Breath of Fire 3's popularity is largely due to its nostalgia value and extremely good sprite animation. Almost everyone who actually tries to play it now points out the massive tremendous flaws in its gameplay (such as an over reliance on tedious minigames, poorly designed skill system, and Dragon Gene's just being hilariously broken.) A lot of PS1 RPGs have aged poorly and people recognize that. It is why all the re-releases come with cheat functions and fast forward options, because people tend to want to see the story more than the gameplay. Even Soul Hackers added a bunch of poo poo to remove the tedious elements from its gameplay and I would argue Soul Hackers aged better than P2. P2 isn't retroactively worthless but like a number of games from the time period it has serious flaws that make it hard for people to get into. And more to the point, as much as I love it, Persona 2's story isn't hugely exceptional these days. It's still very well crafted and fun but it's far from alone there, and a lot of what it does well the other Persona games also do well. It does do some things better (LGBT representation) but even that is fairly faint praise because people who are getting into RPGs are not spoiled for choice there. I love PS1 RPGs. A lot. It is still my favorite RPG generation and several of my favorite games of all time are PS1 RPGs. They are also part of, like all PS1 games, a 'mid-generation' between SNES era and PS2/X-Box Era which has probably aged the absolute worst of any game generation. That doesn't mean they are bad or unplayable but the average PS1 game is probably more sloppy and hard to get into than the average SNES/Genesis game as PS1 was the point where complexity and graphics really started to take off, but on a system that could just barely handle them. It was awesome because that level of weird creativity lead to unusual and interesting games that wouldn't exist otherwise, but it also means most of those games are very difficult to play if you grew up past the PS1 era. People can still get into them but it's an ask, and as much as I love Persona 2 the story on its own merits probably doesn't stand out to people as much these days. MonsieurChoc posted:I think people ar ebeing unfairly harsh to the P2 gameplay, but the game would definitely be betetr if it had a better battle system. I would say the actual dungeon design and the tedium of random battles probably contributes more than the battle system being 'bad.' Suikoden's battle system isn't any great shakes but the fights are over super quickly and with minimal fuss so it doesn't really get in the way.
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Jan 13, 2021 00:26
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Stux posted:wait.............. are u telling me when it comes out here it will be no raidou................. No, he's just not in countries where his presence is a problem because of his design. Everyone else gets Raidou as the default and has to pay for Dante if they want him instead.
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Jan 13, 2021 00:31
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Cleretic posted:Actually they don't use Raidou in the countries where what he represents is a problem. Huh, I knew that’s what they were doing but it just hit me that this is exactly how Sonic Adventure 2 is sold on modern platforms too.
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Jan 13, 2021 00:36
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they should put raidou in dantes coat
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Jan 13, 2021 00:40
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man I hope that Persona 6, with it's new Director that is not Katsura Hashino, is better about LGBT+ stuff
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Jan 13, 2021 00:43
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P2 is like Xenogears in that it's a PS1 JRPG I want everyone to play but I almost feel bad for asking them to play it. But the story and characters are so good that everybody should try to slog through the awful, repetitive combat for the sake of the writing. But isn't that also wrong to inflict that on people? I really can't decide. Chrono Cross so badly wanted to be Xenogears but it's sorta the opposite where the gameplay is better than the story.
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Jan 13, 2021 00:47
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NikkolasKing posted:P2 is like Xenogears in that it's a PS1 JRPG I want everyone to play but I almost feel bad for asking them to play it. But the story and characters are so good that everybody should try to slog through the awful, repetitive combat for the sake of the writing. But isn't that also wrong to inflict that on people? I really can't decide. PS1 JRPGs are super weird almost as a rule. Basically every genre went a little crazy for the start of 3D, but JRPGs had the dangerous situation where they didn't really have to expend any energy figuring out how their game works in 3D, so they instead spent all that energy going nuts over how big they could make their games and getting really weirdly creative with gameplay in ways that almost universally didn't work. Basically the only one I can think of that didn't snap like that was FFVII. But then VIII made up for lost time by going bugnuts in every way, and IX spent its gameplay trying to rein in VIII's nonsense and trying to make it work somehow.
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Jan 13, 2021 00:55
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Stux posted:they should put raidou in dantes coat They won't because they are cowards.
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Jan 13, 2021 00:56
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ImpAtom posted:Breath of Fire 3's popularity is largely due to its nostalgia value and extremely good sprite animation. Almost everyone who actually tries to play it now points out the massive tremendous flaws in its gameplay (such as an over reliance on tedious minigames, poorly designed skill system, and Dragon Gene's just being hilariously broken.) A lot of PS1 RPGs have aged poorly and people recognize that. It is why all the re-releases come with cheat functions and fast forward options, because people tend to want to see the story more than the gameplay. Even Soul Hackers added a bunch of poo poo to remove the tedious elements from its gameplay and I would argue Soul Hackers aged better than P2. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 01:02
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Caligula effect is right there
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Jan 13, 2021 01:02
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ImpAtom posted:
Also card grinding.
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Jan 13, 2021 01:07
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The one thing about IS over EP is that you can pretty easily do the game entirely with plot Personas so you don't have to interface with the terrible card system.
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Jan 13, 2021 01:12
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Silent Protagonist Maya is an abomination.
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Jan 13, 2021 01:14
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all mayas are good and i don't mind maya being EP's protag, its just really weird that there had to be a silent protag at all for EP 
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Jan 13, 2021 01:20
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That's one of my least favorite parts of is, it means you never have to engage with two of the main systems of the game. That's just a failure of game design if you ask me. The contact system isn't great, but a lot of work went into the different combos the characters have, and there's a lot of fun characterization hidden in it. Likewise the velvet room isn't great, but it's still fun to have to craft a team using the matériels you've acquired, I think it can sometimes be a bit much making new personas for all the characters, but compared to the newer games I prefer having more control over the way my team develops, rather than having to drop characters I like because they're inferior, or use people I like less because it's mechanically effective. As for people saying you can experience the game in an lp, I mean a well done one might give you seventy five percent of the experience, but actually roaming the maps with your party, buying goods, chatting with the locals, and watching them all become friends as the city descends into madness is something I don't think you can really get from an lp. Not to disparage people who tried and didn't like them, but when people say they're unplayable, too dated, or to watch an lp. I feel it is robbing some people who would've played and enjoyed it, the experience of having done so.
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Jan 13, 2021 01:21
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drat, I'm now sad we'll really never get Raidou 3 due to the problematic history I really miss the SMT art style but I'll always have SMTV on switch in the future.
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Jan 13, 2021 02:06
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Gaius Marius posted:Caligula effect is right there That's just mean.
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Jan 13, 2021 03:14
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