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 I'm sure this will be cool and good  BalloonFish posted:Tying back to 'the cruelty is the point', especially Pistol Pete's analogy of the villagers having to beg at the manor gate for charity when the squire could just give them money, but it's all about enforcing power structures: There's someone right now in twitter replies suggesting that all kids be given a ration of Huel and/or nutrient bars...but the food has to include a dye that stains your teeth purple to prevent even this state-funded largesse being misappropriated. Presumably to be followed up by the police or the DWP rounding up adults with stained teeth or something like that. And in a strange twist of reality impinging on urban legend, there's very recent research showing that crystal violet is a decent antihelminthic against pinworm. 'Arrogant demagogue Jeremy Corbyn.' The press has poisoned this place. Jose posted:They're so loving poo poo Of course it isn't  Private Speech posted:It's going to grow for probably another ~4 weeks at least, with active cases you already have a ~2 week delay and that's even more pronounced with deaths.  e: 88 is the bad number.
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Jan 13, 2021 13:21
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I looked into this a bit yesterday after seeing this tweet. Apparently her mother is from Northern Ireland and she got a lot of views direct from her mother who obviously had 'views' about the IRA and believed Corbyn supported the IRA but modified them somewhat later. I can't find the link right now that I got this off. sebzilla posted:https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1348897221832560640 Hm the wording on that one "He agrees that images of hampers being shared on Twitter are unacceptable." Rashford's giving them the best interpretation. There are others: "the images" are unacceptable. It is "unacceptable" to share the images. Not "The hampers are unacceptable". I wonder what his exact words were.
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Jan 13, 2021 13:25
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Jack Monroe is pretty much rattling off the TV liberal consensus from before May resigned, Anna Soubry being invited on the Last Leg and all that.
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Jan 13, 2021 13:25
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thespaceinvader posted:The cruelty isn't the point, the theft of the profit is. But the Tories do need the cruelty because it's the political justification. Tories can't run on a platform of handing out money to the elite cadre of their mates, but they can run on a platform of punishing the perceived enemies of their infinitely spiteful base.
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Jan 13, 2021 13:26
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lol https://twitter.com/HumHum83/status/1349144347028160512?s=20 https://twitter.com/HumHum83/status/1349146610341715971?s=20
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Jan 13, 2021 13:30
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https://twitter.com/Chartwells_UK/status/1349325590952865792
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Jan 13, 2021 13:36
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Jedit posted:You're presuming that they thought about it, instead of just doing it because they knew there would be no consequences. they definitely thought about it, because extracting money in private-public partnerships is the main point of these businesses goddamnedtwisto posted:Given they seem to be wrapping them in "whatever poo poo we've got lying around" I figured it would be too much of a variable, but assuming 5x32cm of Tesco cling film, 0.2p per quarter. is 10p the wholesale or retail onion price? what is the extra cost of tools, of prep space? of storage? of overhead in general? i really don't want to play fantasy budget here. the main point is that they either intended to convey contempt or that their lack of concern at being perceived as such should be interpreted as intentional.
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Jan 13, 2021 13:36
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wait they got more govt money!? lmao
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Jan 13, 2021 13:41
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When I think about the phrase 'the cruelty is the point' I think about Ian Duncan Smith. There was that video or whatever of him crying at the inhumanity suffered by people on that Glasgow housing estate in yhe 80s. I think at some point, he probably did actually want to help the poor get out of poverty, or at least seeing how bad things were for people sparked a tiny flame of emotion somewhere in the depths of his heart. But because he's a tory surrounded by tories and everything has to fit into a thatcherite framework; when he looked for ways to help, all he could find was 'keep shoving them until they move.' Because of the demonisation of any kind of socialism on the right, the only policies left to him were essentially Arbeit Macht Frei and Personal Responsibility. So he ends up coming up with Universal Credit. And I'm pretty sure he thinks he's done a good job, and given these people the tough love and motivational shove they need. He was probably sold on it pretty convincingly by people who stood to profit from the ATOS contracts. And if you ignore the statistics on austerity deaths by pretending it's just your opponents playing politics, you never have to think about what you saw in Glasgow. Whoever said malcompetence has the mix about right. A lot of it is malice. Sometimes that malice and misunderstanding taints even genuine attempts at helping by people too incompetent or maliciously educated to understand what really needs to happen. forkboy84 posted:Anyway, I posted this in CSPAM but looking at one of the less depressing packages, for 2 kids
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Jan 13, 2021 13:43
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josh04 posted:Jack Monroe is pretty much rattling off the TV liberal consensus from before May resigned, Anna Soubry being invited on the Last Leg and all that. Aye it's pretty sad tbh Treating the symptoms indepth while carefully protecting the disease I guess the architects of your own poverty are fine to pal around with once they slide into your dm's on twitter and the bailiff is no longer at the door
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Jan 13, 2021 13:44
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Wait... so the response to loving over kids is to PAY THEM ANOTHER £3.50 PER PARCEL???
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Jan 13, 2021 13:45
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"We're sorry we got caught. However, the government have given us an extra £3.50 per child and so now the meal boxes costing the taxpayer £33.50 each will contain food worth £8 instead of £5."
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Jan 13, 2021 13:46
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"Every penny will be going to school meals," yes, but mostly the big dinners for the private school kids, while the poors get a bag of gone off mince and apples (in the same bag).
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Jan 13, 2021 13:48
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Jedit posted:"We're sorry we got caught. However, the government have given us an extra £3.50 per child and so now the meal boxes costing the taxpayer £33.50 each will contain food worth £8 instead of £5." £5.50, maybe
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Jan 13, 2021 13:49
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Bobby Deluxe posted:The thing that strikes me about this one is that's quite a nice looking kitchen. I suspect this is a nicer looking package because it's a middle class family in an alright area, so they've felt like they had to try harder. i bet they even have a fridge! this you? https://twitter.com/deb2107/status/1348956997752934401?s=20
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Jan 13, 2021 13:50
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crepeface posted:they definitely thought about it, because extracting money in private-public partnerships is the main point of these businesses All prices are retail (from the first google result) for ease of comparison, and lol if you think I'm digging out my project management tools to do an actual proper estimate for a throwaway joke. Besides even if I did - and even if I could prove that in fact it was actually costing them more, rather than saving them, to do this, it still doesn't prove contempt on its own. The contempt is proven by the whole thing, getting bogged down in penny-shaving arguments is playing into their whole game.
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Jan 13, 2021 13:51
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goddamnedtwisto posted:All prices are retail (from the first google result) for ease of comparison, and lol if you think I'm digging out my project management tools to do an actual proper estimate for a throwaway joke. so why did you start it in the first place
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Jan 13, 2021 13:54
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Didn't see this mentioned but apparently one of the Barclay brothers has died. Sheldon Adelson (casino mogul & billionaire power broker) also died a couple days ago. Can we get Rupert Murdoch in for the trifecta? Maybe 2021 can be a better year!
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Jan 13, 2021 13:58
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crepeface posted:i bet they even have a fridge! My point was more that when state aid happens for the middle classes it tends to be higher quality. Like when the government tells people on UC they can't have stuff for free, and then gives tax credits and marriage allowance to middle class people. They're openly admitting with tax credits its topping up people's money because it's not enough to live on, but somehow people who have way less than that are told not to be greedy and that they're a burden. It's not the fault of the peoole who have a nice kitchen, it's the fault of the cunts doing the parcels thinking 'oh, they live in a nice area, give them nicer stuff. Not like the scabby poors round the corner.' Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 14:00
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According to the BBC, schools will have the option to offer vouchers from next week. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55641740
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Jan 13, 2021 14:00
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Wachter posted:But the Tories do need the cruelty because it's the political justification. Tories can't run on a platform of handing out money to the elite cadre of their mates, but they can run on a platform of punishing the perceived enemies of their infinitely spiteful base. We're four years out from an election. They're not running on anything, they can just give ridiculously large contracts to their mates. The profit is the point. Just like it was with the PPE contracts.
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Jan 13, 2021 14:04
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Cyril Sneeer posted:According to the BBC, schools will have the option to offer vouchers from next week.
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Jan 13, 2021 14:07
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crepeface posted:i bet they even have a fridge! NORMAN!!!!! NORMAN look at those tiles, Norman!!! Look how fancy they are!!! They're taking our taxes and they have UTENSILS, NORMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!! RING SOMEONE, NORMAN!!!!! 
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Jan 13, 2021 14:07
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:I looked into this a bit yesterday after seeing this tweet. Apparently her mother is from Northern Ireland and she got a lot of views direct from her mother who obviously had 'views' about the IRA and believed Corbyn supported the IRA but modified them somewhat later. Well here's some acknowledgement from her about it at least. https://twitter.com/BootstrapCook/status/1349335420740448256?s=19
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Jan 13, 2021 14:13
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Although broadly a force for good, Monroe is also a habitual liar, small scale grifter and perpetually exploding drama bomb. Heart kinda sank when I saw her pop up on the fringes of this whole thing, since she's basically a big glowing red weak spot for any lazy right-wing hack to aim for.
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Jan 13, 2021 14:16
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thespaceinvader posted:We're four years out from an election. They're not running on anything, they can just give ridiculously large contracts to their mates. They're politicians literally the only two things they do is give out money to their friends and spin, the cruelty is part of the spin
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Jan 13, 2021 14:16
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stev posted:Well here's some acknowledgement from her about it at least. it's a deflection- them having multiple digs at jam man in the national press isn't really relevant to a conversation between the two
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Jan 13, 2021 14:20
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Communist Thoughts posted:They're politicians literally the only two things they do is give out money to their friends and spin, the cruelty is part of the spin
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Jan 13, 2021 14:29
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I think that the best example of the Tories idiocy is JRM refusing to accept the idea that UNICEF actually needed to help people. The idea that started in the right wing press about how the poor aren't actually ill, or worried or even truly poor has become something that people earnestly and honestly believe in this country. There is no bottom because people refuse to see it. Every last one of the people who exist in poverty is there because of material circumstance but to say that would imply that we've failed in some way, so that can't be it. It must be their own fault.
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Jan 13, 2021 14:30
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They said the same thing about the UN investigations on housing and disability. Just a complete refusal to engage with any analysis of the society they created. Then they do the same thing with the WHO, to no surprise (and many more deaths).
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Jan 13, 2021 14:36
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stev posted:Well here's some acknowledgement from her about it at least. Is this not similar to other centrists once he is out of the running to make actual changes, that now we campaign for change again - because her political wilderness seems to have ended after the election.
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Jan 13, 2021 14:36
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you see this with liberals a lot - oh I didn't repel with the rest of my class like a vampire being offered a sunny Spanish holiday I was "confused". things were pretty intense there for awhile when anything could be done huh, fortunately now that that is over we can go back to me being left wing.
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Jan 13, 2021 14:39
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crepeface posted:i bet they even have a fridge! They say they can't afford to feed their kids but they have three chopping boards - couldn't they sell two of them? And is that a tin for tea? The tea already comes in bags so they could just sell the tin and have a pile of teabags on the counter See, that's quids in, i'm always thinking, these poors just don't know how to look after their money
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Jan 13, 2021 14:41
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There is way too much blame placed on chartwells and way too little placed on the contract
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Jan 13, 2021 14:42
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If I was taking pictures of my kitchen to put on twitter you better believe that bit of the kitchen is gonna look more presentable than it ever has, let alone whatever state my kids have left it in Probably even bleach the grouting
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Jan 13, 2021 14:44
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Didn’t the Sensible Centrists mostly break for Corbyn, albeit with plenty of grumbling, in 2020? I thought it was the red wall collapsing plus the rock solid Tory pensioner vote wot did it, not the Social Democrat dolchstoß.
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Jan 13, 2021 14:45
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I think the overarching issue is that we are also defined by who we are friends with. And a larger problem is that a lot of people, even people who have suffered, buy into the ideas of those around them when they do better. Because ultimately even when you are doing well you don't want to collapse everything or change stuff too much, otherwise you might end up back where you were and that is terrifying. Ultimately I don't know, I want everyone to get along in some way but some days it's just hard to see a way of doing that. Beefeater1980 posted:Didn’t the Sensible Centrists mostly break for Corbyn, albeit with plenty of grumbling, in 2020? I thought it was the red wall collapsing plus the rock solid Tory pensioner vote wot did it, not the Social Democrat dolchstoß. I mean this would not surprise me in the least. It's just that people get more mad about the media ecosystem of this country and then that attacking against the unremitting poo poo there was transfered towards everyone else who might agree with the Newspapers sentiments. It's why I think if we'd actually had a successful Hutton inquiry and changes in Newspapers we'd probably have a Labour government atm. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 14:46
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kyojin posted:fun to think about how 80 years ago the state managed the feed the country despite there being a war on but now the free market can't do anything but poo poo itself It's much worse than that. It's a crony-capitalism market and anything but free - hence all the trolling twitter posts from supermarkets saying here's what we would've sold you for £30. Supermarkets even have the delivery infrastructure in place too. Furthermore by doing it this way the government also paid for the purchase and delivery of the food which the parents would've done for free themselves so it's even more inefficient than just deliberately picking a piss-poor company to do it.
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Jan 13, 2021 14:51
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Beefeater1980 posted:Didn’t the Sensible Centrists mostly break for Corbyn, albeit with plenty of grumbling, in 2020? I thought it was the red wall collapsing plus the rock solid Tory pensioner vote wot did it, not the Social Democrat dolchstoß. as i predicted at the time, they did, after it would make any difference. the guardian in particularly very performatively broke corbyn, like two days before the election. i am wildly disinterested in trying to specifically diagnose what happened on friday the thirteenth because being excessively focused on one element can lead to you missing the forest for the trees - like saying, oh the red wall collapsing did it, ignoring that it was the social democrats in question who forced the party into a wildly unpopular and loving stupid political position, including jack monroe personally which caused the red wall to collapse. this is really important for understanding what happened - everyone who wants to keep their cushy left supported media gig will tell you how, well actually, i was always for corbyn and all those times i wrote articles about how they were going to enact sausage communism and have our grandparents shot was actually me expressing frustration with how corbyn was acting, allowing as he did all those articles about how they were going to enact sausage communism etc etc
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Jan 13, 2021 14:54
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Hm the wording on that one "He agrees that images of hampers being shared on Twitter are unacceptable." I doubt Johnson's putting that much thought into it, it's not a semantic dance, just a simple lie. You only need to play these sorts of word games when you're going to be called to account for the things you said and you need to prove you weren't technically lying. He's never going to tell someone outside his own party or donors that he actually meant that it was unacceptable to share the images, that's worse than just continuing to lie that you considered the hampers unacceptable. And for anyone who is in his party or the tory donor class, they'll already know it's a lie and won't give a poo poo.
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