Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

Mandibular Fiasco: Oct 14, 2012

qhat posted:

There's this great invention called Ear Plugs...

Toddlers are going to be toddlers. I have one. There's no controlling him when he decides The Scream isn't just a piece of art.

People like this should be ashamed of their selfishness. But shame hardly exists anymore.

# ? Jan 14, 2021 07:07

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# ? May 29, 2024 11:04

half cocaine: Jul 22, 2019

Mandibular Fiasco posted:

Toddlers are going to be toddlers. I have one. There's no controlling him when he decides The Scream isn't just a piece of art.

People like this should be ashamed of their selfishness. But shame hardly exists anymore.

do you want affordable housing? Then learn to accept that all you're entitled to is this hut next to 50 others on a subdivided lot in East Van. Over my dead body will we let any politicians reduce my capital!

# ? Jan 14, 2021 07:13

qhat: Jul 6, 2015

Mandibular Fiasco posted:

Toddlers are going to be toddlers. I have one. There's no controlling him when he decides The Scream isn't just a piece of art.

People like this should be ashamed of their selfishness. But shame hardly exists anymore.

I don't really blame people for being annoyed at being constantly woken up at 4am, that would be pretty fuckin annoying. The good thing about renting is you can just leave with full abandon whenever you want, I would hate to actually own a condo and have to choose between financial security and mental health all because dipshit policy makers and their NIMBY voter base keep continually pushing prices up with ever laxer lending standards and restrictions on new developments.

# ? Jan 14, 2021 07:36

Alctel: Jan 16, 2004; I love snails

Honestly, being constantly woken up at 4am would be enough to drive me insane as well and have me frantically scribbling in a journal

# ? Jan 14, 2021 07:51

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

From reading the article it sounds like a large part of the fault lies with the lovely noise insulation in the condo unit itself. That's why I'll never buy in a wood framed condo apartment. As I said before I rent in one now and when people living above me walk around normally my light fixtures rattle.

+1 on ear plugs and noise cancelling headphones. I'd get nothing done working from home without them and the toddler from above us moved on over a year ago now so it's like 1/10 as bad as it used to be.

# ? Jan 14, 2021 12:04

Gorau: Apr 28, 2008

After living in a wood framed apartment building for a couple years, my wife and I bought a SFH and haven�t looked back. gently caress those rickety apartment buildings. The concrete building we were in before that was okay, but there was still so much noise coming in from the hallways. When I�m working nights, that poo poo drives me insane.

# ? Jan 14, 2021 14:51

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

In most noise issues the rear end in a top hat is actually our lovely building code. Toddlers are going to exist but people also like to not be sleep deprivation torture victims. loving soundproof better, raise the minimum standards. Force landlords to upgrade too and dont let then renovict over it.

# ? Jan 14, 2021 17:04

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

It's not like it's impossible to do, I live in a wood framed Condo building and I rarely ever hear my neighbors.

# ? Jan 14, 2021 17:10

Claes Oldenburger: Apr 23, 2010; Metal magician!

Yeah me too, 90's wood frame and we can barely hear anyone around us ever. And I think the people above us have a toddler.

# ? Jan 14, 2021 17:17

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

I've built quiet wood frame condos before, a lot of the stuff that makes an energy efficient building tends to help with noise as a bonus. Spray foam insulation around all the joist ends. Doubled ceiling drywall on res-bar, concrete floor topping, packing gaps between the entry door and the framing etc. etc.

That was back when people considered quality of construction when making condo purchases though. Doesn't seem to matter too much these days.

# ? Jan 14, 2021 18:18

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

Regulators should get their act in gear in improving wood frame condos, since it's really what we should be encouraging considering how CO2 intensive concrete is.

# ? Jan 14, 2021 21:21

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

I dunno what changed but realtors are finally talking about how condos are a terrible investment unless you're bailed out by price appreciation

quote:

Trolling for deals in a wilted Toronto condo market
Are condominium apartment investors sniffing around for deals in Toronto�s downtown core?

Anecdotes abound, but the only positive data points are the relative bumps in sales that saw 1,551 condominium apartments sell in December across the city. According to data from the Toronto Region Real Estate Board, it wasn�t even the busiest month of the year (July saw 1,689 sales), but it was about the same level as September and August (1,549 and 1,536, respectively), which was welcome news to realtors who observed down months in October and November (1,438 and 1,375).

According to analysis from Urbanation, December sales in the two most active submarkets in downtown Toronto (C1 and C8) jumped 26 per cent month-over-month and 102 per cent year-over-year, to their highest level since May, 2019.

However, while most of the GTA is seeing booming price growth in other home types, condominium-apartment prices are growing slower and a major drag has been the price drops in the downtown Toronto submarkets that have seen the most transactions and highest levels of available inventory. In C1 (south of Bloor, between Yonge and Dufferin) average apartment prices fell 1.4 per cent month-over-month in December, and 11 per cent year-over-year, from $772,390 to $683,525. While C8 (south of Bloor between Yonge and the Don Valley Parkway) was down the same month-over-month average, prices fell only 8.6 per cent � $738,022 to $673,916 � year-over-year.

So, who is buying more of these condos at their new low prices?

�I suspect it�s investors because I look at them like swing voters,� said Scott Ingram, a CPA and sales representative with Century 21 Regal Realty Inc. �That is, regular end-users just chug along at their steady pace, and if you have any wild changes in the market in either direction, it�s likely due to investor behaviour.�

Mr. Ingram has noted that even in the months that saw average sale-price drops, the volume of sales was relatively stable; the big change in the fall was the competition among thousands of new listings.

According to Urbanation Inc., the total number of condo apartments available for rent in Toronto in December was 8,076, down 12 per cent from September, but up 162 per cent from December, 2019.

In addition to the available inventory, the most important factor driving prices down in these core areas seems to be the falling price of rent. John Pasalis, president of Realosophy Realty Inc., calculated that in the old city of Toronto, once the priciest rental market in Ontario, average rents fell to $2,132 at the end of December, which is lower than the GTA average.

An asset that pays you less and less every month isn�t typically a good bet, but according to Andrew la Fleur, who specializes in investor-buyers for Re/Max Condos Plus, purchasing a new condo in Downtown Toronto has been a cash-flow-negative investment for years. �Any single unit property, in the city of Toronto, that is break-even cash flow based on a traditional 20-per-cent down [mortgage], has been nearly impossible to find in the last five to 10 years, but most especially in the last four since 2016,� he said.

For his buyers, return was calculated on eventual equity appreciation, and with prices and mortgage rates falling, the amount of cash an investor can expect to lose while waiting for that equity payday has actually shrunk.

�Even with the recent decline, investors are still paying 2019 prices for rents that are at 2013 levels and falling. It takes a lot of confidence to jump into that market,� Mr. Pasalis said. �I think a lot will depend on what the rental market looks like in [the first quarter]. If the rental market levels out and rents stay flat or improve then I think investors will keep buying.�

In the first week of 2020, sales have risen, year-over-year, in the downtown markets. But it�s hard to tell how long it has taken to sell those condos, another signal about the level of demand in the market.

...

Condos that sold in December were listed for an average of 36 days in the key downtown markets, 10 days longer than those that sold in November. How many of those long-lasting listings were investors snapping up deals from exhausted sellers taking whatever offer they could get at the end of an otherwise wild year in real estate?

# ? Jan 15, 2021 01:00

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

I'm not necessarily in a bad spot right now because I like both my housemates but I've been wondering about the future and what I would be able to do if I moved out. I don't think it would be physically possible to afford to live in a bachelor's apartment on my current paycheck. I make 38k a year and I'm paying down credit and student debt. I'm in ottawa so rent prices only go up and I have no idea how some people live on their own. You're looking at like 13-1400 minimum for a single bedroom apartment before you factor in things like food or internet or any of the other costs of living. I dont know how I would be expected to cover all those costs and still have money left over to pay down debts without someone saying "just get a job that pays better."

Like I said I'm not in a bad spot right now and I'm doing everything I can to crush my credit card debt before tackling student debt, but the pricing trends for the future scare me into thinking ill be living in my current situation for years of not longer.

# ? Jan 15, 2021 01:45

sbaldrick: Jul 19, 2006; Driven by Hate

Arcsquad12 posted:

I'm not necessarily in a bad spot right now because I like both my housemates but I've been wondering about the future and what I would be able to do if I moved out. I don't think it would be physically possible to afford to live in a bachelor's apartment on my current paycheck. I make 38k a year and I'm paying down credit and student debt. I'm in ottawa so rent prices only go up and I have no idea how some people live on their own. You're looking at like 13-1400 minimum for a single bedroom apartment before you factor in things like food or internet or any of the other costs of living. I dont know how I would be expected to cover all those costs and still have money left over to pay down debts without someone saying "just get a job that pays better."

Like I said I'm not in a bad spot right now and I'm doing everything I can to crush my credit card debt before tackling student debt, but the pricing trends for the future scare me into thinking ill be living in my current situation for years of not longer.

The answer is Vanier where you can get an apartment for under 1200 a month all in.

# ? Jan 15, 2021 14:50

qhat: Jul 6, 2015

Arcsquad12 posted:

I'm not necessarily in a bad spot right now because I like both my housemates but I've been wondering about the future and what I would be able to do if I moved out. I don't think it would be physically possible to afford to live in a bachelor's apartment on my current paycheck. I make 38k a year and I'm paying down credit and student debt. I'm in ottawa so rent prices only go up and I have no idea how some people live on their own. You're looking at like 13-1400 minimum for a single bedroom apartment before you factor in things like food or internet or any of the other costs of living. I dont know how I would be expected to cover all those costs and still have money left over to pay down debts without someone saying "just get a job that pays better."

Like I said I'm not in a bad spot right now and I'm doing everything I can to crush my credit card debt before tackling student debt, but the pricing trends for the future scare me into thinking ill be living in my current situation for years of not longer.

The answer is many of those people don't live alone either, couples also rent 1bdrms/studios. That and the majority of the population do in fact earn much higher than 38k and can afford to dump that kind of money on an apartment. I'm not saying it's right that rent is that expensive, but those are the reasons.

# ? Jan 15, 2021 20:26

tagesschau: Sep 1, 2006; D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
THE SPEECH SUPPRESSOR

Remember: it's "antisemitic" to protest genocide as long as the targets are brown.

qhat posted:

the majority of the population do in fact earn much higher than 38k

In Toronto, the median individual income in 2018 (the most recent year for which numbers are available from Statistics Canada) was less than $38,000.

# ? Jan 15, 2021 23:58

Sassafras: Dec 24, 2004; by Athanatos

tagesschau posted:

In Toronto, the median individual income in 2018 (the most recent year for which numbers are available from Statistics Canada) was less than $38,000.

The post you're replying to wasn't so carefully worded so while you're 100% right, the median for households (ie, the competition for a full share of rent/mortgage) is significantly higher:

"The median after-tax income of Canadian families and unattached individuals was $61,400 in 2018, virtually unchanged from 2017."

# ? Jan 16, 2021 00:14

The Butcher: Apr 20, 2005; Well, at least we tried.; Nap Ghost

Just trick someone into loving you and hope it's not the triple reverse maneuver where they trick you into loving them.

Boom, twice the income.

Also now they/you can't leave. Ever.

# ? Jan 16, 2021 00:22

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

We did it everyone! 2020!

https://twitter.com/mattlundy33/status/1350117574613327874?s=20

# ? Jan 16, 2021 01:02

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

lol imagine being able to afford to be single.

# ? Jan 16, 2021 01:17

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

I'm working on it.

# ? Jan 16, 2021 01:51

mila kunis: Jun 10, 2011

The Butcher posted:

Just trick someone into loving you and hope it's not the triple reverse maneuver where they trick you into loving them.

Boom, twice the income.

Also now they/you can't leave. Ever.

We need to transition as a society to arranged marriages and multigenerational households, housing crisis solved.

# ? Jan 16, 2021 02:00

McGavin: Sep 18, 2012

mila kunis posted:

We need to transition as a society to arranged marriages and multigenerational households, housing crisis solved.

I already live in Surrey.

# ? Jan 16, 2021 03:13

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

Femtosecond posted:

We did it everyone! 2020!

https://twitter.com/mattlundy33/status/1350117574613327874?s=20

I'm not sure this graph says a whole lot that's insightful tbh

# ? Jan 16, 2021 04:26

JawKnee: Mar 24, 2007; You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

wondering how many of those were to individuals buying a first home vs. some corporation gobbling up cheaper property

# ? Jan 16, 2021 05:51

tagesschau: Sep 1, 2006; D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
THE SPEECH SUPPRESSOR

Remember: it's "antisemitic" to protest genocide as long as the targets are brown.

Sassafras posted:

The post you're replying to wasn't so carefully worded so while you're 100% right, the median for households (ie, the competition for a full share of rent/mortgage) is significantly higher:

"The median after-tax income of Canadian families and unattached individuals was $61,400 in 2018, virtually unchanged from 2017."

Arcsquad was talking about personal income, not family income, but it's not like $61,400 for the median family translates into being able to most people being able to afford an "entry-level" $400,000 condo.

# ? Jan 16, 2021 08:44

RBC: Nov 23, 2007; IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888

Sassafras posted:

The post you're replying to wasn't so carefully worded so while you're 100% right, the median for households (ie, the competition for a full share of rent/mortgage) is significantly higher:

"The median after-tax income of Canadian families and unattached individuals was $61,400 in 2018, virtually unchanged from 2017."

Wow, so that's how everyone is affording to live in toronto!

# ? Jan 16, 2021 17:12

half cocaine: Jul 22, 2019

RBC posted:

Wow, so that's how everyone is affording to live in toronto!

By literally pulling themselves up by their bootstraps!

# ? Jan 16, 2021 17:34

Mandibular Fiasco: Oct 14, 2012

1300 pages and still no debt crash. Where will we be at 2600 pages? Predictions go here!

# ? Jan 16, 2021 20:39

Bi-la kaifa: Feb 4, 2011; Space maggots.

Buying $20 loaves of bread

# ? Jan 16, 2021 21:26

half cocaine: Jul 22, 2019

Mandibular Fiasco posted:

1300 pages and still no debt crash. Where will we be at 2600 pages? Predictions go here!

Jon Stovell will be given the order of Canada for elevating the masses to middle classdom through the promotion and protection of their capital gains.

# ? Jan 16, 2021 22:04

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

* As the flood of tech jobs into Vancouver continues rents for a typical one bedroom in City of Vancouver exceed $3000.

* The much anticipated Vancouver Plan lands with a thud, somehow finding a way to please to absolutely no one. The incoming new municipal government ignores it. Council continues to tinker around the edges, building highrises in places where there's not enough rich people to make a fuss.

* BC Liberals are re-elected on a plan to build a $7 Billion bridge to the Sunshine coast, their "solution" to the housing crisis. A massive land grab in Gibsons ensues.

# ? Jan 18, 2021 18:43

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

https://twitter.com/BetterDwelling/status/1349778557006798848?s=20

Edit: lol
https://twitter.com/BenRabidoux/status/1349033519092277248?s=20

# ? Jan 18, 2021 19:10

Guest2553: Aug 3, 2012

Sperm is prettymuch just-in-time delivery so he probably missed the boat unless the egg he pairs with is sitting on a nice pile of cash. Maybe then will their zygote have a chance. It's hard for a single gamate nowadays.

# ? Jan 18, 2021 19:20

Lobok: Jul 13, 2006; Say Watt?

If the father dies immediately after conception and leaves a nice investment inheritance the sperm will have the down payment for a fixer upper in the suburbs.

# ? Jan 18, 2021 19:25

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Hahahah holy poo poo

https://twitter.com/BenRabidoux/status/1346233655484678144?s=20

# ? Jan 18, 2021 19:46

Lead out in cuffs: Sep 18, 2012; "That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."

Cold on a Cob posted:

https://twitter.com/BetterDwelling/status/1349778557006798848?s=20

According to that chart, this has been true since 2005.

# ? Jan 18, 2021 20:14

Slotducks: Oct 16, 2008; Nobody puts Phil in a corner.

Cold on a Cob posted:

https://twitter.com/BetterDwelling/status/1349778557006798848?s=20

Edit: lol
https://twitter.com/BenRabidoux/status/1349033519092277248?s=20

this seems super sustainable in every single way

# ? Jan 18, 2021 20:17

Mandibular Fiasco: Oct 14, 2012

Slotducks posted:

this seems super sustainable in every single way

Look, this is the Canada Debt Thread. Logic has no place here, because anyone of us that are logical have no explanation for what is going on.

Therefore, do what I am doing, give up, and plan to spend a metric ton of money on a house.

# ? Jan 18, 2021 22:09

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# ? May 29, 2024 11:04

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Mandibular Fiasco posted:

Look, this is the Canada Debt Thread. Logic has no place here, because anyone of us that are logical have no explanation for what is going on.

Therefore, do what I am doing, give up, and plan to spend a metric ton of money on a house.

The bubble is going to pop the second I take on a 500k mortgage to buy a two bedroom condo. In the two weeks after I close I fully expect my equity to turn into dust.

# ? Jan 18, 2021 22:29

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