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Had a little lol moment in the shower as I remembered reading The Fountainhead over summer before tenth grade, where as I was reading it I immediately pegged Dominique as Ayn Rand's author insert even before the scene with Roark where he sexually assaults her. I remember clearly being loving annoyed by having to read the book, despite the fact that, being a fourteen-year-old reading it while attending summer Latin classes at a Jesuit university, I was clearly the ideal target demographic for objectivism.
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Jan 17, 2021 19:58
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Djeser posted:Had a little lol moment in the shower as I remembered reading The Fountainhead over summer before tenth grade, where as I was reading it I immediately pegged Dominique as Ayn Rand's author insert even before the scene with Roark where he sexually assaults her.
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Jan 17, 2021 20:16
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Sisal Two-Step posted:These tweets are my favourite brand of baby brain YA author takes. I think the most recent dust-up is when some author claimed that getting The Odyssey removed from the curriculum was a win because it's.... a novel about men I guess? Not enough diversity? The portrayal of Circe is reductive towards women??? idk. Please find this so I can be see what their reasoning is (and also be mad at them). I love the Iliad and the Oddyssey.
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Jan 17, 2021 20:34
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Unfortunately, it seems like there's some kind of fandom dust-up around the definition of fanfic so looking up "The Odyssey" on twitter right now returns a lot of takes about how it's fanfic. I did see this though:  e: found an article about the incident! e2: my mistake, it wasn't a YA author but a teacher. Yikes. Sisal Two-Step has a new favorite as of 21:43 on Jan 17, 2021 |
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Jan 17, 2021 21:38
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There's a difference between not studying a book and removing it from libraries. Who decides what books you study, in your limited time? And you're trying to find the intersection between books people want to read and books people should read (if there is such a thing, and I think there is. Populating that list is an exercise left to the reader.) Isn't the modern concept of fanfic an artifact of modern copyright law? Were people doing knockoff Shakespeare plays? Did Charles Dickens file cease and desists?
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Jan 17, 2021 22:01
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I mean it’s more to do with cometcialization and the fact more people can read and write. Most fan fic was religious in nature because everyone knew those stories. They were universal
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Jan 17, 2021 22:07
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean it’s more to do with cometcialization and the fact more people can read and write. Most fan fic was religious in nature because everyone knew those stories. They were universal
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Jan 17, 2021 22:13
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I prefer to be accurate so I shall not, even if your condescending tone is appealing
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Jan 17, 2021 22:15
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Sham bam bamina! posted:Please do not conflate millennia-old and "universal" religious and cultural traditions with fandoms for corporately owned intellectual properties, thanks. Thank you.
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Jan 17, 2021 22:16
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Djeser posted:High school literature courses suck absolute rear end but that's because they're taught terribly. The books themselves are actually generally okay and the reason why the selections skew weirdly is frequently because they have to appeal to demands from anxious conservative parents worried that if you have a book where someone says "maybe society is hosed up somewhat" their precious Thurston might not want to say a prayer before dinner every night, so teachers have to stick to things which are protected by nature of being "classics". Then again perhaps that was supposed to be the "corrective," but I remember we did often use those books in the actual classes. The main addition was Huck Finn, and you can imagine how that all went.
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Jan 17, 2021 22:17
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How would you characterize the Devine Comedy or Paradise Lost, if not as biblical fanfiction? gently caress, Dante even has self inserts and Mary Sues.
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Jan 17, 2021 22:54
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Sham bam bamina! posted:Please do not conflate millennia-old and "universal" religious and cultural traditions with fandoms for corporately owned intellectual properties, thanks. What is Thor classified as?
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Jan 17, 2021 23:11
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Byzantine posted:What is Thor classified as? dogshit
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Jan 17, 2021 23:27
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Mr. Sunshine posted:How would you characterize the Devine Comedy or Paradise Lost, if not as biblical fanfiction? gently caress, Dante even has self inserts and Mary Sues.
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Jan 17, 2021 23:53
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Thinking about all the Australian aborigines' fic in the Dreamtime fandom because I cannot comprehend a spiritual pursuit or cultural bond higher than enjoying Content.
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Jan 17, 2021 23:56
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Mr. Sunshine posted:How would you characterize the Devine Comedy or Paradise Lost, if not as biblical fanfiction? gently caress, Dante even has self inserts and Mary Sues. I feel like fanfic is a thing that very much relates to how people relate to art in the current capitalist society we live in and doesn't make sense to apply to a society where "intellectual property" would have been a contradiction in terms.
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Jan 17, 2021 23:57
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Actually writing an allegorical work building upon the universal canonical language of the culture of the time, on the stories that formed the moral and spiritual foundation of the society of the era, thus contributing to the evolution of the ongoing social discourse through prose is the same thing as my Sonic fanfiction, or probably actually not as good, to be honest.
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Jan 17, 2021 23:58
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How do King Arthur, Robin Hood, etc relate to this? They've had plenty of new stories written by people inspired by the older ones. You could reasonably call pretty much any story of them fanfiction.
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Jan 18, 2021 00:00
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Derivative fiction isn't new, but to consider anything - without qualifications - that continues some established tradition to be "fanfiction" is a galaxy brained take. Especially in a broader historical horizon, when the function of literature was different than it is today, and the concepts of genres and the discrete nature of individual works were completely alien to ours, and kept transforming throughout the given time frame.
steinrokkan has a new favorite as of 00:06 on Jan 18, 2021 |
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Jan 18, 2021 00:03
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Tenebrais posted:How do King Arthur, Robin Hood, etc relate to this? They've had plenty of new stories written by people inspired by the older ones. You could reasonably call pretty much any story of them fanfiction.
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Jan 18, 2021 00:05
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Senior Woodchuck posted:No, it's that they're ALL terrible people. They were all rich, yes.
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Jan 18, 2021 00:08
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steinrokkan posted:Derivative fiction isn't new, but to consider anything - without qualifications - that continues some established tradition to be "fanfiction" is a galaxy brained take. Especially in a broader historical horizon, when the function of literature was different than it is today, and the concepts of genres and the discrete nature of individual works were completely alien to ours, and kept transforming throughout the given time frame. I will take the stance that the Gnostic Gospels are fanfiction, and continue treating them with contempt
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Jan 18, 2021 00:16
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Thinking about my favourite entries to the Bible Cinematic Universe The Passion of the Christ and It's a Wonderful Life.
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Jan 18, 2021 00:24
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Sham bam bamina! posted:Someone writing a King Arthur story in 2021 is not coming from the same place as Geoffrey of Monmouth or Thomas Malory and is probably writing fanfiction. So Botticelli's The Birth of Venus is fanart, since it was created a thousand years after people stopped believing in Venus.
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Jan 18, 2021 00:26
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Sham bam bamina! posted:I'm not pretending anything. I am sincerely disgusted by whatever capitalist brain poisoning has convinced thousands that a market sector defined by its adherence to an eighth-grade reading level and obsessed with formula is not only the most valid space for women as writers but more valid as writing than books written for adults even by women. It's a transparent co-opting of social justice as a marketing hook. I get it. You're too good to read children's books, and also still struggling with the inherent misogyny that there's something demeaning about childcare an everything relate to it. So instead of coming to the natural conclusion that the only shameful thing is publishers pigeonholing women into certain child and women relate genres, you've decided the genres themselves are the problem. Its women writing an reading YA that are the real villains, letting capitol tell them what they should like instead of being totally cool an woke like me and avoiding anything to do with children. You don't see men reading a bunch of YA (because publishers put those books in with regular genre fiction; they're written at the exact same level and just have different formatting) so naturally it's women infantalizing themselves that are the problem, rather than arbitrary publishing categories reinforcing that image.
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Jan 18, 2021 00:27
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My favorite part of this past Christmas was reading Kate Beaton's wonderful picture book The Princess and the Pony to my niece, but sure, I only have a problem with people on Twitter telling me how feminist it is to read Crown of Bones (book one of the Amassia series) instead of the Brontë sisters because I hate women and children. Edit: The other thing is that nobody is arguing that Warhammer books need to replace The Odyssey in school curricula. Sham bam bamina! has a new favorite as of 00:41 on Jan 18, 2021 |
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Jan 18, 2021 00:37
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Sham bam bamina! posted:Thinking about all the Australian aborigines' fic in the Dreamtime fandom because I cannot comprehend a spiritual pursuit or cultural bond higher than enjoying Content. Is this as an aside where I can moan about how much I hate the title 'content creator'? Like just call yourself an artist or videographer or poet or hell, streamer, entertainer, online show host whatever. It just belies totally the wrong approch; hmm yes consume content, shovel it into my waiting maw. Can't wait for sweet content drops from my fav creators Keats, van Gogh, Homer
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Jan 18, 2021 00:47
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Sham bam bamina! posted:Crown of Bones (book one of the Amassia series) If anyone was wondering whether this is real, welp: quote:Raise. Your. Phantom. What do any of these things have to do with each other? What does any of this convey, besides that epic-fantasy-type events will occur, and the unremarkable narrator will somehow be the specialest of all? At least #raiseyourphantom is hashtag-ready, whatever the hell it means.
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Jan 18, 2021 00:54
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I think some people in this thread aren't actually talking to each other, but are instead still arguing in their heads with some rear end in a top hat they saw on twitter last week
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Jan 18, 2021 00:59
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Byzantine posted:So Botticelli's The Birth of Venus is fanart, since it was created a thousand years after people stopped believing in Venus.
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Jan 18, 2021 01:00
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Antivehicular posted:If anyone was wondering whether this is real, welp: We get it, you hate women and children. Byzantine posted:So Botticelli's The Birth of Venus is fanart, since it was created a thousand years after people stopped believing in Venus. A Deviantart commission
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Jan 18, 2021 01:00
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This is somewhat related, but my friend and I were chatting yesterday about Tor's new marketing push to market their books the way fanfic 'markets' itself to its audience. For example, in this review of Gideon the Ninth:quote:The most revealing (but also most fun) tag applicable to Gideon the Ninth is enemies to lovers. Regular readers of stories with the sort of energetic, combative, “toss the two hand-biting antagonistic opposites together and make them go” shenanigans featured here will recognize the beats from the beginning. Or this tumblr marketing push for the upcoming novel Winter's Orbit. "Slow burn" and "mutual pining" are both very popular tags on AO3.
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Jan 18, 2021 01:04
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Tenebrais posted:How do King Arthur, Robin Hood, etc relate to this? They've had plenty of new stories written by people inspired by the older ones. You could reasonably call pretty much any story of them fanfiction. Depends on how the person arguing wants to draw their lines to either show fan fiction as something good with a long, proud tradition, or something ephemeral and crappy that is/was unlikely to generate a better artist than Naomi Novak. Pro-fic people are right that experimenting with other peoples stories an characters is a practice as old as storytelling, and anti-fic people are right that the differences just in the concept of intellectual property alone makes a vast difference between Virgil making his own sequel to the Iliad, and my cousin writing her own ending to the Star Wars books because the real one was taking to long to come out. I go back an forth, but personally I think the real enemy is again the culture of capitalism that simultaneously restricts individual creativity while also saturating the culture in variations of their property so people see riffing an experimenting with that as just more of the thing, rather than a creative expression in its own right. Marvelverse fanfiction was a lot more diverse and creative before the MCU, to give a specific example.
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Jan 18, 2021 01:04
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Antivehicular posted:If anyone was wondering whether this is real, welp: I've seen better-written summaries on KDP. Who is Amassia??????? What is Amassia?? nothing what's amassia with you
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Jan 18, 2021 01:07
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Sisal Two-Step posted:This is somewhat related, but my friend and I were chatting yesterday about Tor's new marketing push to market their books the way fanfic 'markets' itself to its audience. For example, in this review of Gideon the Ninth: Tamsyn Muir came out of fanfiction -- IIRC, she was a big-name fan in Homestuck fandom? Which, uh, makes everything I've heard about her novels make way more sense to me than it did before I knew that.
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Jan 18, 2021 01:10
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there wolf posted:I get it. You're too good to read children's books, and also still struggling with the inherent misogyny that there's something demeaning about childcare an everything relate to it. So instead of coming to the natural conclusion that the only shameful thing is publishers pigeonholing women into certain child and women relate genres, you've decided the genres themselves are the problem. Its women writing an reading YA that are the real villains, letting capitol tell them what they should like instead of being totally cool an woke like me and avoiding anything to do with children. You don't see men reading a bunch of YA (because publishers put those books in with regular genre fiction; they're written at the exact same level and just have different formatting) so naturally it's women infantalizing themselves that are the problem, rather than arbitrary publishing categories reinforcing that image. Criticisms of young adult literature are not by definition criticisms of women. You're just making up a narrative about this person. This is your sham bam fanfiction.
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Jan 18, 2021 01:18
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Sisal Two-Step posted:This is somewhat related, but my friend and I were chatting yesterday about Tor's new marketing push to market their books the way fanfic 'markets' itself to its audience. For example, in this review of Gideon the Ninth:
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Jan 18, 2021 01:22
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Seldom Posts posted:Criticisms of young adult literature are not by definition criticisms of women. You're just making up a narrative about this person. This is your sham bam fanfiction. i read the same line of defense during the self-pub erotica craze and it was just as laughable back then probably moreso, since the erotica market also had a sizable number of male writers writing under female pseudonyms
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Jan 18, 2021 01:22
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Sham bam bamina! posted:My favorite part of this past Christmas was reading Kate Beaton's wonderful picture book The Princess and the Pony to my niece, but sure, I only have a problem with people on Twitter telling me how feminist it is to read Crown of Bones (book one of the Amassia series) instead of the Brontë sisters because I hate women and children. I mostly agree with this post, but I had a friend in high school who insisted they should teach the Drizzt books.
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Jan 18, 2021 01:22
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They’re better written than anything by Dickens.
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Jan 18, 2021 01:44
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