(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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i think you can enjoy "high" and "low" art freely and the distinction only "matters" because it demonstrates the failure/success of the author's intent of the work vs and how the audience receives the work. i don't know if that makes sense. like the massive portrait of ronald regan made out of jelly beans at the jelly belly factory is "low" art because it was meant to fill space on a wall and make a quirky reference to america's bastard's kibble of choice but its also loving shameless in how stupid it is and for that i love it. it set out what it accomplished to do and executed it flawlessly. the distinction isn't "good" or "bad" when i talk about high and low. its more about intent and delivery and audience expectations. anyway wrt amateur work i also dont think amateur is a dirty word to be snarled at and i sincerely wish more genres would embrace work that wasn't flawlessly polished and work that could be flawed, "bad", weird, experimental, etc.
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Jan 17, 2021 19:12
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Libluini posted:I wish more people would do this the opposite direction, too. Yeah, I guess the gaming channel you're talking about Kinamania, the channel behind Dendy Chronicles, it's one of the funnier Russian ones and I wish there was subtitles for all their videos. What's the other channel that you mentioned about movies? Link to the first episode of Dendy Chronicles for anyone that haven't seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kne6AKyYUuM
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Jan 17, 2021 19:15
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Groovelord Neato posted:It is pretty funny that Fifty Shades became such a massive success and it was Twilight fanfiction by a 40 something. And the original title was the same as He-Man's show. lmao I think about this way too much
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Jan 17, 2021 19:37
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Kamrat posted:Yeah, I guess the gaming channel you're talking about Kinamania, the channel behind Dendy Chronicles, it's one of the funnier Russian ones and I wish there was subtitles for all their videos. What's the other channel that you mentioned about movies? Yeah, Kinamania was who I meant.  The movie channel is gone by now, I think I must have purged it from my subs at some point in the past. Too bad, that guy had 1-2 funny horror movie reviews, but I've seen them so long ago all details are gone from my memories. And everything else on his channel was unsubbed, and therefore incomprehensible. 
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Jan 17, 2021 20:03
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Augus posted:I think it’s less that “fan fiction is high art” and more “all art is low art until someone decides it isn’t and all artists were once amateur artists” it's literally just this you absolute loving pedants, it's a basic concept of how art works through all of human history. Art is always low art until the wealthy and connected decide they like it, then it's real art because obviously the wealthy and connected wouldn't be so crass as to like low art.
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Jan 17, 2021 20:20
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fun hater posted:i think you can enjoy "high" and "low" art freely and the distinction only "matters" because it demonstrates the failure/success of the author's intent of the work vs and how the audience receives the work. i don't know if that makes sense. like the massive portrait of ronald regan made out of jelly beans at the jelly belly factory is "low" art because it was meant to fill space on a wall and make a quirky reference to america's bastard's kibble of choice but its also loving shameless in how stupid it is and for that i love it. it set out what it accomplished to do and executed it flawlessly.
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Jan 17, 2021 20:31
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sexpig by night posted:it's literally just this you absolute loving pedants, it's a basic concept of how art works through all of human history. Art is always low art until the wealthy and connected decide they like it, then it's real art because obviously the wealthy and connected wouldn't be so crass as to like low art. pretend i had a great point about star wars being dumb fanfiction until it became a movie and made 47 billion dollars in 1977 money
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Jan 17, 2021 20:47
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RareAcumen posted:pretend i had a great point about star wars being dumb fanfiction until it became a movie and made 47 billion dollars in 1977 money it was, though! It was Lucas' love letter to like three different movie genres that most of us would see of Archive of our Own with some wack rear end 'what if a samurai and a shaolin monk had to team up with a cowboy to save a princess' writing prompt thing! It was dumb pulpy bullshit that everyone thought was going to collapse and ruin their careers, but it got big enough where the 'tastemaker' types were also enjoying it!
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Jan 17, 2021 20:50
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Fanfiction is transformative media in the same sense as many of the video essays discussed in this thread. As such, it is appropriate for us to be very, very angry about them.
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Jan 17, 2021 21:10
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star wars is an homage
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Jan 17, 2021 21:40
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grocery stores are fanfiction
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Jan 17, 2021 21:44
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The one thing we can all agree on is twitter sucks and if you lose it you lose your job!!!
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Jan 17, 2021 21:44
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Alaois posted:grocery stores are fanfiction The freezer section is an isekai.
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Jan 17, 2021 21:56
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8one6 posted:The freezer section is an isekai. You joke but someone probably made that manga already.
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Jan 17, 2021 22:04
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Arcsquad12 posted:You joke but someone probably made that manga already. manga? 
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Jan 17, 2021 22:09
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Alaois posted:manga? I guess not every anime comes from a manga. Simpsons best anime but once the Armin Tanzarian arc happened it started to lose me.
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Jan 17, 2021 22:11
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Libluini posted:Kind of frustrating, makes you wish we could just finally end this 200+ language bullshit and just put them all into a blender to make one, global language everyone can understand. Understandable but I think languages are cool, so you're wrong. There were some attempts at doing that though, weren't there. Like esperanto, which was a complete failure
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Jan 17, 2021 22:26
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8one6 posted:The freezer section is an isekai. Arcsquad12 posted:Simpsons best anime  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frKyaFTeC7c
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Jan 17, 2021 22:45
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macabresca posted:Understandable but I think languages are cool, so you're wrong. 
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Jan 17, 2021 22:47
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basically all i want to say is please stop pretending the things you like are important, they aren't and i don't care how many comparisons to things other people think are important you make because i do not care in the slightest
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Jan 17, 2021 22:48
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Anyone who says Esperanto was a complete failure needs to watch Inkubo (Incubus), a 1966 horror movie scripted entirely in Esperanto with nobody on set who could actually speak it, starring William Shatner.
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Jan 17, 2021 23:11
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Alaois posted:basically all i want to say is please stop pretending the things you like are important, they aren't and i don't care how many comparisons to things other people think are important you make because i do not care in the slightest thank you
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Jan 17, 2021 23:11
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBDyLEYk-BU It's here.
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Jan 17, 2021 23:38
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i'm well outside of pop music so i hadn't heard of Exile before it's very nice but what is up with that swooshing noise in the first half of the song? like an off-beat washing machine is running waaaay in the background. ruins the mix
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Jan 17, 2021 23:39
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Alaois posted:basically all i want to say is please stop pretending the things you like are important, they aren't and i don't care how many comparisons to things other people think are important you make because i do not care in the slightest Counterpoint: Please stop pretending the things I like aren't important, it makes me sad.
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Jan 18, 2021 00:03
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Importance is an inherently subjective concept. What's important to one person likely doesn't matter at all to someone else. Basically, it's fine to care or not care about whatever as long as you're not trying to force that opinion onto others.
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Jan 18, 2021 00:14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omyoJ7onNrg Crowbcat finally releases his magnificent octopus collage for Cyberpunk. I think he's finally topped his No Man's Sky and Mass Effect Andromeda videos.
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Jan 18, 2021 00:17
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Arcsquad12 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omyoJ7onNrg I can dig why people appreciate the comparisons, but this guy's entire output is so consistently negative that I don't know how they stand making it.
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Jan 18, 2021 00:30
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fun hater posted:this thread is arguing that fanfiction is also adaptations, homages, inspiration and derivatives and keep using these things as historical examples for why fanfic is good. Why does the distinction between high and low art matter and why does miscategorizing and mildly insulting one matter more than writing a screed attacking anyone involved in the the other?
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Jan 18, 2021 00:34
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Vagabong posted:I can dig why people appreciate the comparisons, but this guy's entire output is so consistently negative that I don't know how they stand making it. I think at a certain point you just have to sit back and laugh at how bad game launches can be and Crowbcat crossed that line years ago. It's impressive how some games just snap like twigs and I'm happy he's around to document it all.
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Jan 18, 2021 00:41
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Nuebot posted:Why does the distinction between high and low art matter and why does miscategorizing and mildly insulting one matter more than writing a screed attacking anyone involved in the the other? i think taking what people were trying to achieve with their art into account when critiquing it is a vital part of the process. whether or not they were successful in the execution depends on the expectations of the audience and the presentation of the artist. i really have to emphasize i really dont have the vocabulary for this when it comes to written work. for art work i can be like "when i say 'high art'' im speaking of work intended to hang in galleries vs "low art" such as art intended to hang in dentist offices". neither of these things are bad. they serve different functions and i expect different things from them. for ex: when a clumsy overt attempt at an oscar nomination is released to a 13% critical rating, its because it didnt live up to the expectations set by the artist to the audience. does that make sense? i dn't think i said anything even remotely resembling the second half of your question
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Jan 18, 2021 01:17
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High fart, low fart
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Jan 18, 2021 01:35
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this is where the Shakespeare comparison becomes relevant because Shakespeare is considered the highest of high art but in its time it was crass low art for the commoners and the theater was right around the corner from the brothel the intent of the work didn’t somehow change over time, what changed was how it was viewed by those in power. the only distinction between high and low art that matters is whether it can be used as a symbol of prestige or not. this is getting really far away from the original subject tho 
Augus fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Jan 18, 2021 |
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Jan 18, 2021 01:36
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Augus posted:this is where the Shakespeare comparison becomes relevant because Shakespeare is considered the highest of high art but in its time it was crass low art for the commoners and the theater was right around the corner from the brothel thats not actually true at all, shakespeare's work was patroned extensively by the upper class
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Jan 18, 2021 01:42
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iirc people of all classes watched his plays. vastly more wealthy people but that's how wealth operates lol e: me, annoying: the answer is in the middle e: also i think i would call what shakespeare wrote adaptations more than fanfic. this is fun, i like to categorize things. fun hater fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Jan 18, 2021 |
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Jan 18, 2021 02:17
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Sonic X Neo Cortex fanfiction has more value than The Great Gatsby
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Jan 18, 2021 02:39
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Arcsquad12 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omyoJ7onNrg Suzi Sphere Hunter also put out a video on her mixed feelings on the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fU-2WGhu0s
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Jan 18, 2021 02:54
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Macaluso posted:Sonic X Neo Cortex fanfiction has more value than The Great Gatsby Submarine screen doors have more value than Sad Rich People Being Sad and Rich: The Novel.
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Jan 18, 2021 03:11
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fun hater posted:i think taking what people were trying to achieve with their art into account when critiquing it is a vital part of the process. whether or not they were successful in the execution depends on the expectations of the audience and the presentation of the artist. If that's the big difference then it's a matter of success rather than intent. A lot of artists do their work because they need to eat and thus don't have the time or luxury to create grand pieces of their own pure creative drive. Some people manage to be successful one way or another - whether it's attaining a singular wealthy patron who pays them a lot for whatever they make, or specifically commissioned pieces - or simply managing to go viral more or less and becoming, or sparking, a cultural zeitgeist and winding up with their works in art galleries for more money than they could ever spend in their life (often the artist is dead when this happens.) Most artists never get lucky though and just toil away earning money while doing what they can to chip away at their dreams over their careers. Is 50 Shades of Grey "High Art" because it became internationally famous, while Master of the Universe "Low Art" because it was dumb fanfiction that might never have gone anywhere if the creator didn't get that initial push? There's always been a weird romanticism about artistic pursuits that seem to just kind of forget money at all, and it's not like. A super huge criticism of the people who don't realize that: but a lot of the time the art pieces hanging in galleries and are world famous aren't there because they were some deeply emotional dream aspiration by a troubled soul looking to pour their feelings onto canvas. A lot of that poo poo, especially from specific historical eras, tends to have histories that were more "X Rich guy paid for this, then a wealthy collector bought after he died. Technically we don't even own it!" and while there are certainly artists who's ambitions are to just produce the works they want to do because they love it and have something they want to say and do - and most art genuinely does express something of the artist and their ideas within: the whole high and low art thing just always feels off because of that. Someone who puts their heart and soul into their landscapes but never makes it past "dentist office" tier is just constantly dismissed, versus someone from a rich family with the right connections to get their ~outsider art~ fast tracked into the latest gallery opening.
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Jan 18, 2021 03:13
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can you bloviate harder
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Jan 18, 2021 03:21
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