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karmicknight posted:I've been trying to put together an efforpost reaction to this point, but MRT's post really succinctly sums up part of what made the promo sing, which was that it was presented as being
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Jan 18, 2021 08:28
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cena is smarter than vince in terms of getting what people want and could have nixed that whole thing since he never had any good comebacks and always just looked shellshocked whenever cm punk was dumping all over him. i'm surprised he didn't push for something that would have made it a lot worse. but yeah he definitely was not ever heelish. more 'oafish' which may have been resignation that this would be a good idea but that he would not get any shine from it whatsoever
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Jan 18, 2021 08:34
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what i meant to imply was that they somehow managed to keep from forcing an unwanted narrative on the audience for quite a long time all things considered. multiple weeks. it was just like when wrestling was popular. nyuts
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Jan 18, 2021 09:38
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Hedgehog Pie posted:On that note, I wonder what everyone's favourite commentary team across any wrestling promotion is. I have a fondness for JR and Heyman: it lasted less than a year and Heyman was occasionally sleazy in the manner of Jerry Lawler, but most of the time they combined good play-by-play with legitimately insightful colour analysis, and they could be funny too. They seemed to really enjoy working together. I think my favourite is a similarly short-lived duo of JR and Jesse Ventura in WCW. Ventura was great as the heel commentator who would still give credit to faces while being completely internally consistent in his commentary. Venture joined in february 92 for Superbrawl and JR left about a year later for WWF after Bischoff became exec producer in WCW. Of course, Ventura was then fired in early 94 because Hogan was coming into the company.
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Jan 18, 2021 11:12
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I remember JR and Heyman being great at WM17, but my favourite commentary team is Kevin Kelly, Rocky Romero, and Chris Charlton, especially from their first G1 tour together. Kevin was a decent enough play by play guy, Rocky brought great colour as both an active wrestler and a member of CHAOS (and an ongoing hatred of BUSHI) and Chris brought the live promo translations and New Japan history for both wrestlers and arenas. Each member played an integral part and by the end of the tour they'd called 15 or so shows together in a month and had built up a great camaraderie. I don't think Chris would be nearly as comfortable in the booth as he is now if it weren't for Kevin and Rocky
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Jan 18, 2021 12:15
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Vandar posted:Honestly it's this for me. Tony's sheer joy at seeing modern wrestling after almost two decades out of the business is infectious as gently caress, and Excalibur gives him someone good to play off of. JR is usually whatever, but he still has his moments where he adds to the table and it would be weaker overall without him. I like Jericho with them. He's a heel commentator that doesn't focus on antagonizing the audience and doesn't feel a drone. His only flaw is he gets worked up and drowns the other commentators out sometimes. But at least he's focusing on the ring when he does that. Eddie Kingston does the same thing but he puts too much attention on the booth and not enough in the ring. It's the one time Eddie talking isn't a good thing. ChrisBTY fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Jan 18, 2021 |
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Jan 18, 2021 14:39
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Vandar posted:Honestly it's this for me. Tony's sheer joy at seeing modern wrestling after almost two decades out of the business is infectious as gently caress, and Excalibur gives him someone good to play off of. JR is usually whatever, but he still has his moments where he adds to the table and it would be weaker overall without him. If you were wondering who Sting telling Tony to get over here and give him a hug was targeted at, it was me. 
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Jan 18, 2021 14:49
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ChrisBTY posted:I like Jericho with them. He's a heel commentator that doesn't focus on antagonizing the audience and doesn't feel a drone. His only flaw is he gets worked up and drowns the other commentators out sometimes. But at least he's focusing on the ring when he does that. Eddie Kingston does the same thing but he puts too much attention on the booth and not enough in the ring. It's the one time Eddie talking isn't a good thing. One of Jericho 's greatest strengths is knowing how to put people over. That story from his 1st book about Bob Brown explaining why its dumb to bury your opponent, particularly if the plan is for you to job, should be required reading for any wrestler with mic skills.
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Jan 18, 2021 15:02
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El Gallinero Gros posted:One of Jericho 's greatest strengths is knowing how to put people over. I enjoy Jericho's continuity in hating Pineapple Pete (screaming "I HATE THAT GUY KNOCK HIM OUT" every time he appears on screen, especially when Kris Statlander booped him) and him planting the seeds of the Orange Cassidy feud from his first commentary appearance. JR is a lot better with Jericho in the booth, I'd be interested in how those two would work as a two-man on Dark sometime.
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Jan 18, 2021 16:38
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El Gallinero Gros posted:One of Jericho 's greatest strengths is knowing how to put people over. That and Heyman talking about giving an amazing promo in WCW only to come backstage and have Dusty disappointedly say “that was entertaining, but where’s the money?”
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Jan 18, 2021 16:51
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The Senator Giroux posted:That and Heyman talking about giving an amazing promo in WCW only to come backstage and have Dusty disappointedly say “that was entertaining, but where’s the money?” It's always been really depressing that two of my favorite years in wrestling, being '89 and '92 (for NWA/WCW) from both story and work perspectives, didn't draw a dime. 
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Jan 18, 2021 17:17
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ChrisBTY posted:I like Jericho with them. He's a heel commentator that doesn't focus on antagonizing the audience and doesn't feel a drone. His only flaw is he gets worked up and drowns the other commentators out sometimes. But at least he's focusing on the ring when he does that. Eddie Kingston does the same thing but he puts too much attention on the booth and not enough in the ring. It's the one time Eddie talking isn't a good thing. Jericho can be really hit or miss - when he's there for one match he tends to try and shout too much and overrun the other commentators, but if he has to be there for the whole show he's more subdued and focused on calling the action. I actually love Eddie on commentary (though he can have issues calling the match) because it usually breaks down into the kind of glorious chaos that fits the match (because it usually involves butcher and blade or the lucha bros)
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Jan 18, 2021 20:18
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Are there any good long-form articles about HHH's obnoxious reign on top in the early 2000s? I kinda missed the Ruthless Aggression era.
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Jan 19, 2021 17:27
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oldskool posted:I enjoy Jericho's continuity in hating Pineapple Pete (screaming "I HATE THAT GUY KNOCK HIM OUT" every time he appears on screen, especially when Kris Statlander booped him) and him planting the seeds of the Orange Cassidy feud from his first commentary appearance. JR is a lot better with Jericho in the booth, I'd be interested in how those two would work as a two-man on Dark sometime. Jericho screaming “THAT’S THE HAND SIGNAL! THEYRE DOING IT! THE FAMOUS HAND SIGNAL!” over and over at the end of Dynamite recently was amazing. Really hope he settles into doing comedy heel play-by-play full time at some poibt
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Jan 19, 2021 20:18
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Dawgstar posted:Wow. I knew all that on some level, but reading that really reminds me of Paul Orndorff not taking time off to take care of his arm. The money with his run with Hogan was just... ridiculous. The real shame of it is that Orndorff suffered permanent damage. He's a super, super nice guy - he's my sister in law's second uncle or some such. He had some recent financial problems, and is starting to have some issues with his memory.
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Jan 19, 2021 21:13
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Nick Jr. Face posted:That's because such a promo would be a blatant lie since by all accounts AEW has been a well-run company that fosters a healthy work environment. WWE greenlit that promo because they were well aware of how toxic they were even almost a decade ago. Other folks have corrected this post, but was Punk legitimately cut off at the end of his promo, or was that part of the schtick?
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Jan 19, 2021 21:21
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Pylons posted:I actually love Eddie on commentary (though he can have issues calling the match) because it usually breaks down into the kind of glorious chaos that fits the match (because it usually involves butcher and blade or the lucha bros) When Eddie is calling stuff he doesn't have any character investment in, he's pretty good. He sat in on commentary in Chikara and Beyond from time to time, including the David Starr/Orange Cassidy match that revealed how good Orange could be in a serious contest.
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Jan 19, 2021 21:22
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Red posted:Other folks have corrected this post, but was Punk legitimately cut off at the end of his promo, or was that part of the schtick? The idea of being cut off was planned, but it wasn't specific. Just to cut it when they felt it was the right time.
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Jan 19, 2021 21:57
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Gavok posted:The idea of being cut off was planned, but it wasn't specific. Just to cut it when they felt it was the right time.
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Jan 19, 2021 23:14
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Nick Jr. Face posted:Cutting him off when he was about to call out WWE's hypocrisy with the "Be A Star" campaign was perfect It was. I remember reading that his signal for them to cut him off was that he'd start talking about Vince. If this is true then they actually left it momentarily because they let him say the lines about how Vince is a millionaire who should be a billionaire and that the company might be better off once he's dead. Choosing that point to cut him off made it all the more enticing because it made whatever story he had about Vince and the anti-bullying campaign (if indeed he even had one) sound even worse than it was probably intended.
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Jan 19, 2021 23:43
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The millionaire/billionaire line probably got through because Vince agrees with the idea but doesn't get that the implicit reason was 'because he's mismanaged this company'.
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Jan 19, 2021 23:45
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Well also Punk didnt directly blame Vince but also sycophant yes men so Vince could make the jump its the yes mens fault.
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Jan 19, 2021 23:59
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Lid posted:Well also Punk didnt directly blame Vince but also sycophant yes men so Vince could make the jump its the yes mens fault. Yeah, I actually forgot that he used that line to quickly segue into talking about the useless yes men, specifically calling out Laurinaitis. I imagine him bringing Laurinaitis up was one of his "tick boxes" since Johnny became an on-screen character not long after. If it wasn't, did they just decide to introduce him because Punk mentioned him?
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Jan 20, 2021 00:26
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Hedgehog Pie posted:It was. I remember reading that his signal for them to cut him off was that he'd start talking about Vince. If this is true then they actually left it momentarily because they let him say the lines about how Vince is a millionaire who should be a billionaire and that the company might be better off once he's dead. Choosing that point to cut him off made it all the more enticing because it made whatever story he had about Vince and the anti-bullying campaign (if indeed he even had one) sound even worse than it was probably intended. I remember at the time being sure that he was going to tell the story about how they hosed with Zack Ryder by telling him they had special plans for him for a Long Island show, only to tell him last minute, "Haha, just kidding. You're not booked in any way." From what I recall, it was something where at least a few wrestlers thought it was over the line.
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Jan 20, 2021 01:22
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Hedgehog Pie posted:Yeah, I actually forgot that he used that line to quickly segue into talking about the useless yes men, specifically calling out Laurinaitis. I imagine him bringing Laurinaitis up was one of his "tick boxes" since Johnny became an on-screen character not long after. If it wasn't, did they just decide to introduce him because Punk mentioned him? Reminding the crowd he was Animal’s brother and thus was the brother of one of the members of the most famous tag teams of all time whereas he’d been exceedingly average his entire career was great. I only wish Punk had worked in a Dynamic Dudes reference.
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Jan 20, 2021 05:07
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Dawgstar posted:I only wish Punk had worked in a Dynamic Dudes reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDjyMTL1gQA
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Jan 20, 2021 13:54
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Punk and Ace have an equal number of WON match of the year nods
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Jan 21, 2021 14:21
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How many people have pinned Undertaker clean? With no interference, weapons or misc horseplay. Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar and Great Khali all have clean pins on him. Angle also has a submission win over Undertaker as well. Does anybody else?
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Jan 22, 2021 13:24
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:How many people have pinned Undertaker clean? With no interference, weapons or misc horseplay. Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar and Great Khali all have clean pins on him. Angle also has a submission win over Undertaker as well. Does anybody else? Steve Austin did on RAW for the belt. Kozlov turned Old School into a powerslam for a surprise win on a Smackdown. Batista did at Cyber Sunday 2007 And Roman at WM 33. El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Jan 22, 2021 |
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Jan 22, 2021 13:27
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:How many people have pinned Undertaker clean? With no interference, weapons or misc horseplay. Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar and Great Khali all have clean pins on him. Angle also has a submission win over Undertaker as well. Does anybody else? Roman Reigns.
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Jan 22, 2021 13:29
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:How many people have pinned Undertaker clean? With no interference, weapons or misc horseplay. Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar and Great Khali all have clean pins on him. Angle also has a submission win over Undertaker as well. Does anybody else? I think Mabel beat him clean.
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Jan 22, 2021 15:32
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bartok posted:I think Mabel beat him clean. Kama attacked Taker (KotR 95).
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Jan 22, 2021 15:52
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bartok posted:I think Mabel beat him clean. The first person to beat The Undertaker clean in a singles match on TV/PPV was Austin in '98. Yes, I went through all his Cagematch results.
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Jan 22, 2021 16:20
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SG Bamboo posted:Punk and Ace have an equal number of WON match of the year nods
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Jan 22, 2021 18:39
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:How many people have pinned Undertaker clean? With no interference, weapons or misc horseplay. Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar and Great Khali all have clean pins on him. Angle also has a submission win over Undertaker as well. Does anybody else? Hilariously, I don't think Kane ever beat him clean. Guy can't even put over his fake brother
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Jan 22, 2021 18:46
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar and Great Khali all have clean pins on him.
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Jan 22, 2021 19:41
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Yeah you're right Kurt Angles to small it doesn't seem realistic.
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Jan 22, 2021 19:48
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Kane best Taker clean at night of champions 2010
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Jan 22, 2021 19:54
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forkboy84 posted:The first person to beat The Undertaker clean in a singles match on TV/PPV was Austin in '98. Yes, I went through all his Cagematch results. That's honestly really impressive. Wonder how much of it was on purpose and how much just coincidence, like his Wrestlemania record to a point.
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Jan 22, 2021 20:02
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oldpainless posted:Kane best Taker clean at night of champions 2010 Really! Without watching it, I think I can safely assume the match blew.
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Jan 22, 2021 20:20
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