|
So I guess CL22 memory sticks are a thing: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/team-group-t-create-classic-10l-ddr4-3200-mhz-cl22-2x32-gb/ Never seen a pair of 3200mhz CL22 sticks. I first thought it must be a typo, CL22 instead of CL12. Apparently the only reason for that latency is that they can run at 1.2V stock instead of 1.35V. Absolute slowest pair of memory I've ever read about.
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 10:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 09:21 |
|
|
The point of those is that they adhere to the JEDEC spec for DDR4 3200 (theoretically that goes as low as CL20 but I don't think anyone makes sticks like that, certainly not for 2x32 GB kits), ie. at 1.2 V without XMP. This is important to some people, because their software / certification doesn't allow overclocking (and XMP is just an overclocking preset in the end). E: Also there are some DYI builders who insist on not using RAM that achieves its speed via XMP because it's potentially unstable or incompatible, it's not officially (JEDEC-) specified, and might break faster because of the additional voltage through overclocking/XMP. The German hardware mag c't is a big proponent of this, so every time they publish suggested builds a few people rush out to get the precious recommended JEDEC RAM of which there's barely any supply, and then come back asking for what alternatives there are 
orcane fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Jan 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 11:20
|
|
|
movax posted:I got the Noctua TR4-SP3 specific coolers for the Threadripper boxes I've built and they are awesome. No clue if they have a Chromax version but if you feel strongly about the brown / have windows, you can always replace the fan. Thanks. I have a window but the box is in the shadow anyway so you can't see anything that doesn't have LEDs on it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 13:11
|
|
|
Is there any reason to get the NH-D15 SE-AM4 over a regular NH-D15?
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 17:13
|
|
|
The only difference is the SE-AM4 is guaranteed to come with an AM4 bracket while the regular D15 may or may not depending on when it was manufactured, but that switchover happened so long ago that I doubt there's any D15s left in the channel without an AM4 bracket included
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 17:22
|
|
|
Munkeymon posted:Is there any reason to get the NH-D15 SE-AM4 over a regular NH-D15? The nhd15s and SE am4 (same cooler, but the am4 version only includes am4 brackets) are slightly offset for ram and pcie slot compatibility, and come with a single fan afaik. The regular nhd15 comes with two fans(?) And is not offset. I'd get Nhd15s or the black chromax Nhd15s instead of the SE am4 or regular nhd15. Might as well have the version with an Intel bracket too. You never know. GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Jan 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 17:29
|
|
|
I mean, if it'll get used on another system it'll probably need a new bracket for whatever new socket everyone is on for DDR5. Isn't the D15S just a D15 that just ships with one fan? Sure looks like you can turn a 15 into a 15S by prying off a metal bracket but I've never seen either in person so IDK.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 18:00
|
|
|
Nah the D15 (left) and D15S (right) are different designs The D15S is safer clearance-wise, but if you want the extra fan you can check Noctuas compatibility list to see if the D15 will fit in your setup https://ncc.noctua.at/motherboards
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 18:11
|
|
|
My local (Denver) Micro Center is showing 5600s (25+) and 5800s (1) in stock for the first time in weeks. I am very slightly hopeful that this might be a leading indicator of stock normalization. But I'm not holding my breath.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 18:44
|
|
|
mdxi posted:My local (Denver) Micro Center is showing 5600s (25+) and 5800s (1) in stock for the first time in weeks. I am very slightly hopeful that this might be a leading indicator of stock normalization. It likely is a sign. ANTonline has had stock of the 5600x and 5800x all week.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 18:59
|
|
|
mdxi posted:My local (Denver) Micro Center is showing 5600s (25+) and 5800s (1) in stock for the first time in weeks. I am very slightly hopeful that this might be a leading indicator of stock normalization. Same my local microcenter basically always has the 5600X and/or 5800X now but no 5900X/5950X. Looking at the Microcenter discord I guess they don't always make it onto the website and perhaps the higher end SKUs are getting snapped up by people waiting in line before opening.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 19:01
|
|
|
repiv posted:Nah the D15 (left) and D15S (right) are different designs Also YMMV depending on where you are, but I think the price difference between both is basically the value of buying an extra fan anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 13:35
|
|
|
Munkeymon posted:I mean, if it'll get used on another system it'll probably need a new bracket for whatever new socket everyone is on for DDR5. Noctua are pretty good at sending customers updated brackets when sockets change, but I'm not sure if they'd send you updated Intel brackets for an AMD only cooler.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 15:47
|
|
|
So, small problem. My 5900x order from scan.co.uk is super-duper-delayed, and I'll most likely need to return my placeholder CPU before the 5900x would get here. Looking at my options: 5600X: Ł310 (this is about original MSRP, right?) 5800X: Ł390 (currently on sale, I have no idea what the original MSRP was) 3900X: Ł440 (my current placeholder, definitely overpaid from an amazon scalper) 5900X: Ł510 (on backorder for MSRP, could get another placeholder from amazon and wait it out, but I don't have much of a window left... also it's kinda lovely to do) I'm pretty sure I'll return the 3900X, but not sure if getting the 5600X or 5800X makes more sense. With these prices, is the 5800X a better value now? It's all getting chucked into a SFF build and I've half heard some things about the 5800X thermals being a pain, not sure if that's actually true.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 16:16
|
|
|
GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:Noctua are pretty good at sending customers updated brackets when sockets change, but I'm not sure if they'd send you updated Intel brackets for an AMD only cooler. nope, you're good. they want to see proof of purchase of the Noctua cooler, the CPU, and the mainboard and they'll send you an upgrade kit. This list is for LGA1200 but they say on the page for the upgrade kit they will send it to 115x owners too, so if it's a problem just get whatever's available. Also there appears to be no difference in the coldplate between AM4 and 115x editions so don't worry about convex vs concave. https://noctua.at/en/nm-i115x-mounting-kit quote:The following models can be made compatible with the LGA1200 socket free of charge using the NM-i115x upgrade-kit: Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Jan 20, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 16:33
|
|
|
That's cool as hell.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 16:50
|
|
|
GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:That's cool as hell. I owned an NH-D14 for nearly a decade and they sent brackets for it twice. It was powered on 24/7 and the fans never went bad either. Khorne fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Jan 20, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 16:53
|
|
|
Munkeymon posted:Isn't the D15S just a D15 that just ships with one fan? No, I keep going on about this, it's not. The fin stacks are offset, so when you install it, the heatsink stacks are closer to the top of the case, they don't overlap with slot 1 on your board. I personally feel the D15S is always the better buy, as you're less likely to run in to compatibility problems, but the heatsink area is the exact same. It comes with clips to mount the extra fan if you do buy one. HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Jan 20, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 17:36
|
|
|
The thing about the fans on D15 vs D15S is that both models come with the older NF-A15 which is beaten all around by the A12x25 these days. So it's 10 bucks extra, for a model with compatibility problems, and an extra fan but it's not the one you would probably buy if you went out and purchased it separately. You can take that 10 bucks and use it for an A12x25 or an Arctic A12 or whatever and you still get what is arguably the better cooler (given the compatibility problems on the older non-S model).
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 17:42
|
|
|
Paul MaudDib posted:The thing about the fans on D15 vs D15S is that both models come with the older NF-A15 which is beaten all around by the A12x25 these days. So it's 10 bucks extra, for a model with compatibility problems, and an extra fan but it's not the one you would probably buy if you went out and purchased it separately. You can take that 10 bucks and use it for an A12x25 or an Arctic A12 or whatever and you still get what is arguably the better cooler (given the compatibility problems on the older non-S model). If you’re buying a nice noctua fan separately surely something like a scythe cooler would be a far better deal?
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 17:46
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:If you’re buying a nice noctua fan separately surely something like a scythe cooler would be a far better deal? The way I look at the big-rear end Noctuas is as a bit of an investment. They always come out with new mounts for them, and you can get them for free from Noctua. It's nice not to have to budget for a new cooler when you change socket, but I guess that's only a relatively minor bonus.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 17:55
|
|
|
I'm running a D15S with two A15s and I really don't think I'm losing out on anything vs the newer fans. If you do care about that then just wait until the new D15 is out, since I suspect it'll be coming with the new 140mm fans. In other news, Newegg has made their buying process worse:  
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 00:23
|
|
|
Malloc Voidstar posted:I'm running a D15S with two A15s and I really don't think I'm losing out on anything vs the newer fans. Haha, yes, dance nerds for the chance to give us your money! Still pisses me off every time I check out from Newegg and the checkbox for "GET OUR SWEET DEALS E-MAILS" is checked by default. gently caress off, it's 2021, just let me buy poo poo from you with the least amount of interaction possible, please.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 01:11
|
|
|
Does anyone know if Ryzen Master's CPU Clock Speed metric is measuring stuff...wildly differently than it seems it should be on Zen3? I ask because while my 5600X is running some long batch processes, it's consistently showing it bouncing between 900-1.2Ghz or so, while MSI Afterburner, CPU-Z, and Task Manager are all showing more like 3.6-4.6Ghz across all cores. Actual load is low (<10%), but temps and power use seem like ~4Ghz is a lot more reasonable than ~1Ghz.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 02:37
|
|
|
That sounds like a c state issue? It might just be a reporting thing for when cores can be quickly parked? There’s a lot of black magic in IC power management. hobbesmaster fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Jan 21, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 02:40
|
|
|
Possibly. Just seems weird that everything else is showing that all cores are staying clocked reasonably high (with power use and thermals to match) while Ryzen Master is over there claiming it doesn't know anything about it. Even if Ryzen Master is polling faster or something and thus catching the values when cores momentarily idle, I'd think it'd still at least show regular bumps into the 3-4Ghz range like everything else is. Instead, the max I'm seeing from Ryzen Master has been regularly like 2Ghz below the minimum that I'm seeing anywhere else. Very odd.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 02:49
|
|
|
Does changing the update interval in preferences radically change things? I get the impression ryzen master is doing some sort of averaging.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 03:40
|
|
|
It might be a case of AMD knowing exactly which registers to probe, which the others might not be aware and/or haven't published versions that can handle yet? Naively looking at ACPI C and P states is about as useful as testing the temperature of your CPU with your tongue.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 03:58
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:Does changing the update interval in preferences radically change things? I get the impression ryzen master is doing some sort of averaging. Ryzen Master does not offer an interval lower than 1s (what it defaults to). For shits and giggles I turned Afterburner to 0.1s updates and it doesn't show anything different: floor of about 3.6Ghz and peaks of 4.5-4.7Ghz while Ryzen Master is showing nothing over 1-1.5Ghz with a floor of about 500Mhz. I'd be willing to chalk it up to 3rd party applications not knowing what exactly to do with Zen3 yet, but the thermals and power draw do suggest it's not actually idling.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 04:06
|
|
|
Just to double check you’re not running the programs at the same time?
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 04:09
|
|
|
DrDork posted:Ryzen Master does not offer an interval lower than 1s (what it defaults to). For shits and giggles I turned Afterburner to 0.1s updates and it doesn't show anything different: floor of about 3.6Ghz and peaks of 4.5-4.7Ghz while Ryzen Master is showing nothing over 1-1.5Ghz with a floor of about 500Mhz.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 04:10
|
|
|
BlankSystemDaemon posted:Oh, yeah if they're doing 1s resolution, there's absolutely some averaging going on. Yeah, of course. But everyone else should be doing averaging, too, and more to the point, no matter how fine grained I set the others I don't get any hits with clocks as low as what Ryzen Master is reporting. Even at 10ms ticks. It's the enormous disparity that's confusing me here--even with averaging there should be some overlap (since if Ryzen Master is showing an average of 1Ghz, that means it should be spending most of that 1s tick at 1Ghz or lower, so you'd think that the others would poll at least a few hits down below 1Ghz based on pure statistics), but there doesn't seem to be--the others aren't showing even momentary drops below ~3Ghz.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 04:34
|
|
|
DrDork posted:Yeah, of course. But everyone else should be doing averaging, too, and more to the point, no matter how fine grained I set the others I don't get any hits with clocks as low as what Ryzen Master is reporting. Even at 10ms ticks. It's the enormous disparity that's confusing me here--even with averaging there should be some overlap (since if Ryzen Master is showing an average of 1Ghz, that means it should be spending most of that 1s tick at 1Ghz or lower, so you'd think that the others would poll at least a few hits down below 1Ghz based on pure statistics), but there doesn't seem to be--the others aren't showing even momentary drops below ~3Ghz. The wrong way is to have a program report averaged out values over a given time period - this is what happens when you do any CPU temperature measurements. The right way is to have a counter for each state, and just increment the counter, that way the user can choose the time period and figure out their own averaging. The reason why I suspect Ryzen Master of using registers unavailable to anyone else is exactly because their numbers are so different.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 05:22
|
|
|
So it turns out that Ajinomoto -- the company who makes a lot of MSG -- is also the single-source supplier for a material called ABF (Ajinomoto Buildup Film). ABF is used in more-or-less all circuit board manufacturing, as it is an inter-layer insulator. There is a shortage of ABF, and this is why we've been reading about shortages of CPU interposers, and the Ford Chennai plant halting production. Point is, I decided to go ahead and buy the mobos and RAM I'll be needing for upgrades (once I can get my hands on CPUs, of course). I had been planning to just wait until CPU supply stabilized, but now I have horrible visions of motherboard prices ramping up the way GPU prices have.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 20:33
|
|
|
mdxi posted:So it turns out that Ajinomoto -- the company who makes a lot of MSG -- is also the single-source supplier for a material called ABF (Ajinomoto Buildup Film). ABF is used in more-or-less all circuit board manufacturing, as it is an inter-layer insulator. There is a shortage of ABF, and this is why we've been reading about shortages of CPU interposers, and the Ford Chennai plant halting production. I'm not sure Mobo prices are going to go much anywhere this time. There's been a plethora of AM4 motherboards already especially because socket didn;'t change for Zen 3 and there's a ton of AIBs. You can pretty much load in a Zen3 in any AM4 motherboard no matter how old with a BIOS update. Next AMD socket gen with "DDR5"..... who knows. Probably will be pretty pricy. Likewise RAM I'm not sure, a lot of the DDR4 ram you can buy you could have bought anytime in the last 6+ years but it certainly fluctuates. I expect DD5 will be very pricy But again it isn't like there's going to be any new revolutionary AM4 mobos that are going to vastly better than B550/X570 that you can buy so yeah there's not much point in waiting. Probably same for DDR4 RAM.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 22:05
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPBjyn8nkEU Some people out there still holding a torch for FX processors.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2021 13:43
|
|
|
Just letting people know that I was poking around and found https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000458938976.html?spm=2114.12057483.0.0.54db7975mhYqNT which claims to be ECC RAM that will run at 3600MHz. Timings aren't amazing, but I'm thinking about trying it, if I get the board I'm looking at.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2021 18:48
|
|
|
AVEXIR, huh? I haven't seen anything about their DDR4 but weren't their DDR3 modules complete garbage?
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2021 18:55
|
|
|
Asking for some help, and pointers to whether I'm correct or not. Been building PCs for ages and my stepkid just got the parts for a build (that I'm pretty envious of haha). He and a buddy have installed parts etc, but it didn't work so I got called in to take a look. Gear: Gigabyte x570 Aorus Elite Ryzen 5800 G.Skill Trident Z (or Neo? (white)) 3200MHz Corsair RM 750X nVidia RTX 3070 has not shipped yet but he has a 1060 that works fine and we used that for testing. Testing: = Although it all looked decently set up (apart from cable management), first thing I did was rip out every connected cable - USB Fan hub, USB3 front panel, etc etc.) Let the CPU and cooler (huge-rear end thing with fan between the two heatsinks) be to start with, since he said the CPU slid in nicely without a hitch and it looked OK on first glance. Only thing I could see was "wrong" was the RAM was plugged into channels A2 and B2. = Checked that the CPU fan was connected to CPU_FAN header next to the CPU_OPT watercooling fan header. = Connected power - ATX from the 24pin ATX outlet, CPU from the 6+2 PCI-E & 4+4 CPU outlet. = Inserted GTX 1060 and connected GFX power from the same PCIE-E + CPU outlet cluster. = Connected front panel PWR+LED cluster (as an old I'm impressed that this was bundled into one plastic connector instead of 4+ individial shitcables.) = Connected DP cable to the 1060. Power on. RAM LEDs light up, CPU fan blows. No video. This is what he said happened when they tried. Weird thing: After keeping it pressed for the customary 4 seconds, the power button/LED starts flashing -- but the system does not turn off... Tried both RAM sticks in A1+B1 instead of A2+B2. Then a single stick in every slot individually. Same symptoms. Tried starving the CPU power by disconnecting the separete CPU power. No RAM lights. They come on if the power is connected again. This is where I removed the cooler just to make sure CPU pins were OK and properly seated. It laid flat in the socket and looked OK. No bent pins after checking. Noticed the paste (which was applied) was crackled in the outer edges, with an area a little off-center was not. This normal? I know the CPU cores are not completely to the center so more heat there is normal, but the crackling? Reseated the CPU, applied a pea-sized drop to the center and was careful to reinstall the cooler head-on, directly to forehead, and tightened it properly (not to say it wasn't OK before). No dice, same symptoms. No video. Since the 1060 works fine (confirmed by putting it back into the old PC), there are three possibilities: - CPU dead - RAM dead - MB dead Difficult to pin down since none of his buddies had any RAM to lend us, no extra CPU to test with... Next steps: - Buy a single stick of cheap DDR4 RAM ($50) and the cheapest Ryzen 3 ($105) to test with, to rule out these two components. - Check if the motherboard supports CPU-less flash to see if an update does anything. I think this is far-fetched since the x570 is practically made for Zen 3 right? Any advice? Poor 15-year old is depressed now.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2021 20:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 09:21 |
|
|
F4rt5 posted:Any advice? 99% sure its the bios. The motherboard does support usb bios flash, so do that and I'd bet all of your issues will be solved.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2021 20:44
|
|
