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Plus the Avengers are all physically and mentally broken and haven’t had a real fight in 5 years
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Jan 19, 2021 19:03
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Fangz posted:You can probably reason it out as him using armour and weaponry that he's familiar with in Endgame, versus in IW where he has the Infinity Gauntlet but he's still figuring out what he can do with them on-the-fly. Infinity War final boss Thanos is heartbroken over killing his daughter and then had that grief magnified times one hundred by a powerful empath. Physically he’s extremely powerful, but his heart just isn’t in it in the same way. Endgame Thanos is five years younger and cockier and unbent and suddenly gets handed unlimited power at no cost while in possession of all his armies. He’s cheat mode Thanos
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Jan 19, 2021 19:11
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Retro Futurist posted:Plus the Avengers are all physically and mentally broken and haven’t had a real fight in 5 years Most of them just took a 5 year nap immediately after being in fights.
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Jan 19, 2021 19:14
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Retro Futurist posted:Plus the Avengers are all physically and mentally broken and haven’t had a real fight in 5 years This brings up a good question of whether villiany ran rampant after iw
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Jan 19, 2021 19:35
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There's a scene of them meeting discussing their avenging. Widow, Carol, Rocket and I forget who else is in that scene.
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Jan 19, 2021 19:40
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Yeah but without Thor, Tony, Clint, Fury and SHIELD, or Steve it's just Nat, Carol, Rocket, Rhodey, Okoye, and Nebula. One of them is trying to run a country and three of them are in space
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Jan 19, 2021 19:44
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Clint's not exactly ignoring crime, he's running around murdering yakuza.
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Jan 19, 2021 19:46
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Okay fair but he's definitely not an avenger anymore lol Fake edit: it's still amusing to me that they just made him the punisher
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Jan 19, 2021 19:51
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site posted:Okay fair but he's definitely not an avenger anymore lol It makes sense if his arc was to die to redeem himself, but then they... didn't do that.
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Jan 19, 2021 19:53
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I know!!! Why?! Really dumb choice imo
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Jan 19, 2021 19:54
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Lurdiak posted:I feel like Endgame Thanos was significantly stronger than Infinity War Thanos just for the sake of having a cooler final battle. While he was indeed able to box Hulk out in Infinity War, he did come out on top of several encounters only because he had the gems and used them cleverly. Then when every single Avenger is on his rear end and he doesn't have a single gem, suddenly he's able to fend them all off for a sustained battle? I mean I know there were some brown CGI soldiers in the background keeping the backup occupied at times but still. I can accept that the guy who could brutalize the Hulk would be able to fight off the big three like an SNK boss. Otherwise, Thanos got his rear end handed to him by Scarlet Witch until calling in an air strike and was overpowered by Captain Marvel until he weaponized the Power Stone. Besides that, I don't remember him doing anything noteworthy in the battle.
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Jan 19, 2021 19:57
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Lurdiak posted:It makes sense if his arc was to die to redeem himself, but then they... didn't do that. I feel like giving Hawkeye this Yakuza Killer gimmick so they could kill him in the same movie would've been lazy. Making him live with his choices and try to find redemption is better long term.
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Jan 19, 2021 19:58
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SonicRulez posted:I feel like giving Hawkeye this Yakuza Killer gimmick so they could kill him in the same movie would've been lazy. Making him live with his choices and try to find redemption is better long term. site posted:This brings up a good question of whether villiany ran rampant after iw I think the mood was more like "we're keeping the lights on and beating down organized crime". Iirc one of them says something like "what you gonna make earthquakes illegal now"
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Jan 19, 2021 20:33
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With Tony Stark retired supervillainy is going to see a serious downturn anyway.
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Jan 19, 2021 20:35
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FilthyImp posted:I think the mood was more like "we're keeping the lights on and beating down organized crime". Iirc one of them says something like "what you gonna make earthquakes illegal now" finally they acknowledge agents of shield
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Jan 19, 2021 20:36
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Yeah, Renner aside I like the idea that Hawkeye doesn't get to sacrifice himself but has to live with what he's done and that Natasha gave up her life for his. It also fits in with Natasha's whole "I have red on my ledger" motivation. She'd been desperate to right her wrongs a lot longer than Hawkeye had been.
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Jan 19, 2021 20:59
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It also makes the movie a whole lot darker than necessary for it to begin with Clint losing his family and end with his family losing him.
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Jan 19, 2021 21:01
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I keep thinking about how we never got the one thing in the MCU that I really wanted to see, which was the Avengers in Asgard.
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Jan 19, 2021 22:13
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Obviously ymmv on the discussion of the merits of the character arcs in IW and Endgame, but I personally did not care at all for the 180 they did with thor. He, along with Cap, had the most consistent arc throughout the franchise. It was all about becoming worthy of being a not just a king, but a God King, about becoming wiser, to abandon his youthful brashness and mature into a just ruler. Him losing his eye was supposed to be symbolic of the same sacrifice his father did. He lost an eye but he saw more clearly, and was wiser for it. This is chucked in the bin almost immediately in IW. Thor is useless without his hammer, he's no longer a ruler and he gets his eye back, which in a sense is fitting because it symbolizes him backsliding in his development EG takes this even further by having him renounce all responsibility and then having this portrayed as heroic. It's farcical. "Sometimes the most heroic thing to do is to be a deadbeat and gently caress off to do whatever you want" is really not a very satisfying arc. Caps big thing was trying let go of his past and accept that it was gone, and move on with his life. He constantly struggles with trying to hold on to the slivers of his former life but gradually succeeds in moving on. But here's endgame where he just walks back on all that and spends his life dancing with his sweetheart while her workplace is infiltrated by nazis and his best friend gets tortured and brainwashed. Again, ymmv but to me these arcs are inconsistent and unsatisfying. SonicRulez posted:I feel like giving Hawkeye this Yakuza Killer gimmick so they could kill him in the same movie would've been lazy. Lazy you say? *Looks at the Hulk* Besides killing off him and focusing on Widow in the future makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than the black hole of charisma that is Renner. Again, ymmv
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Jan 19, 2021 22:32
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Lurdiak posted:Then when every single Avenger is on his rear end and he doesn't have a single gem, suddenly he's able to fend them all off for a sustained battle? 
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Jan 19, 2021 22:33
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McCloud posted:Obviously ymmv on the discussion of the merits of the character arcs in IW and Endgame, but I personally did not care at all for the 180 they did with thor. He, along with Cap, had the most consistent arc throughout the franchise. It was all about becoming worthy of being a not just a king, but a God King, about becoming wiser, to abandon his youthful brashness and mature into a just ruler. Him losing his eye was supposed to be symbolic of the same sacrifice his father did. He lost an eye but he saw more clearly, and was wiser for it. "I shouldn't be ruler just because my dad was ruler" is honestly a good message that should be used more.
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Jan 19, 2021 22:38
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Thor's character arc was never really about him becoming king, it was about him realizing he's not a king. In the first movie, he desperately wants the throne, but is clearly not worthy of it. The second movie is about him struggling with being destined for the throne, but no longer wanting it. Ragnarok is about him finally realizing that being a king isn't about ruling over a kingdom, but caring for a people. And Endgame is him finally abdicating his crown in favour of someone better suited to it.
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Jan 19, 2021 22:41
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Thor was not portrayed as heroic in Endgame. He is a depressed mess of a person. He holds himself responsible for failing to stop Thanos. It isn't until his mom gives him a talking to that he can start to forgive and not blame himself.
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Jan 19, 2021 22:41
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McCloud posted:
Bruce being the second in a buddy comedy and then the transition to Smart Hulk was the best thing they ever did with the character
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Jan 19, 2021 22:48
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I like Professor Hulk a lot, he's a hilarious character and a fitting end for that arc, but I wish we had... actually gotten to see Banner come to terms with the Hulk and work with him to find a solution? I get that there's really no way to make that work with the structure of Endgame's timeskip, but it's a bit of a letdown.
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Jan 19, 2021 22:50
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Honestly, it feels fitting that all character development for Banner/Hulk happened between films. I won't pretend that's a good character arc or anything but it does amuse me. Probably better than trying to make another Hulk movie.
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Jan 19, 2021 22:54
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Arist posted:I like Professor Hulk a lot, he's a hilarious character and a fitting end for that arc, but I wish we had... actually gotten to see Banner come to terms with the Hulk and work with him to find a solution? I get that there's really no way to make that work with the structure of Endgame's timeskip, but it's a bit of a letdown. Maybe we'll get some flashbacks in She-Hulk
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Jan 19, 2021 22:54
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site posted:Maybe we'll get some flashbacks in She-Hulk
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Jan 19, 2021 23:09
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Aphrodite posted:Stormbreaker works great. Thor just aims badly. Even the aim wouldn't have been a problem if he was there slightly earlier. Burying an axe in someone's chest isn't exactly loving around, it's not like he was keeping Thanos alive to taunt him. McCloud posted:Obviously ymmv on the discussion of the merits of the character arcs in IW and Endgame, but I personally did not care at all for the 180 they did with thor. He, along with Cap, had the most consistent arc throughout the franchise. It was all about becoming worthy of being a not just a king, but a God King, about becoming wiser, to abandon his youthful brashness and mature into a just ruler. Him losing his eye was supposed to be symbolic of the same sacrifice his father did. He lost an eye but he saw more clearly, and was wiser for it. Yeah I hated it for all those reasons too.
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Jan 19, 2021 23:23
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I could see where you guys were angling if Thor had also tapped out at the end of Endgame, but he's got 2 more appearances at the barest minimum coming down the pipeline. His arc isn't over. Thor deciding to not become Also Odin is a much more interesting direction for his character to me. Odin was a Tough Man Making Tough Choices in the MCU. Thor knows he's not cut out for that and frankly doesn't think Asgard needs that. FilthyImp posted:Except when the guy task3d with that would be Renner. Ugh Fair. I admit I actually liked Renner as Hawkeye, but since I heard about his off camera stuff, it's just colored his every appearance. Gonna be weird watching Kate Hawkeye. And that one episode of Angel.
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Jan 20, 2021 00:22
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McCloud posted:Caps big thing was trying let go of his past and accept that it was gone, and move on with his life. He constantly struggles with trying to hold on to the slivers of his former life but gradually succeeds in moving on. But here's endgame where he just walks back on all that and spends his life dancing with his sweetheart while her workplace is infiltrated by nazis and his best friend gets tortured and brainwashed. Pretty big assumption that he just danced with Peggy for 70 years. Like he was gonna need her to get Stark Sr. to fly him to Siberia anyway, might as well get a little long missing romance in first.
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Jan 20, 2021 00:33
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FilthyImp posted:I wonder if Spidey's "It's cuz I'm black" joke would still work in a SheHulk thing..m It's a fun moment in the comics, but I think these days there's too many catfish chuds on Twitter to keep it light.
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Jan 20, 2021 00:37
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Also Jameson already knows he's not.
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Jan 20, 2021 00:42
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Ok so apparently everyone forgot Dr. Strange's whole 1 in 4+million chance of beating Thanos but yes, for the love of God, Steve had to let every horrible thing play out exactly the same way or risk Thanos killing half the universe permanently. He loving retired.
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Jan 20, 2021 01:08
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A season 2 What If... about what Steve did in the timeline he went to with Peggy would be interesting. It would also shut up people going on about why Steve didn't do anything between him going back and appearing at the end of Endgame. "Hulk, you big green rear end in a top hat!" gets me every time.
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Jan 20, 2021 01:12
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I'm kinda expecting there to be a Steve Rogers cameo in Loki.
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Jan 20, 2021 02:14
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Even the aim wouldn't have been a problem if he was there slightly earlier. Burying an axe in someone's chest isn't exactly loving around, it's not like he was keeping Thanos alive to taunt him. That's absolutely what he did. He took his time, twisted the axe for the sake of torture and mouthed off to him, which allowed Thanos the opportunity to do the snap. Like I was saying earlier, I feel that Thor's story in Infinity War and Endgame is coming to terms with the fact that not everything is about him. He starts off losing a ton after already losing so much in the previous movie and his obsession is about getting Thanos in a rematch. It doesn't matter if Mjolnir was the friends we made along the way or whatever the moral of Ragnarok was. The dude was double-wielding in Endgame and it didn't matter. But at the time, he wanted to get an upgraded weapon made specifically to gently caress up Thanos. Between vengeance and ego, it was up to him and only him to take down Thanos. And it's easy to buy into when initially watching it because after Thanos, Thor is the closest thing Infinity War has to a protagonist (MAYBE Iron Man). So he got his spruced up mega-axe with added special powers and lucked into attacking Thanos right after Thanos had stunned himself via adding the final Infinity Stone. Rather than going for the immediate kill, Thor played with his prey and paid for it. He stewed for a few months, but still had a shot at getting one more fight with Thanos where he could win with glory and fix everything. Instead, it was entirely moot. Thanos fried the Infinity Stones. Thor beheaded him in an empty exercise in revenge. Had he cared about saving lives to begin with, none of this would have happened and he has to live with it. He fell back on being a nothing king to his people before getting dragged into the time heist. Even though his mother helped him with his confidence and ability to move forward, he still wasn't really fixed. He desperately demanded that he be the one to snap everyone back to life. He was strong enough to survive it and it would redeem his earlier actions. Luckily, everyone knew that it would be the WORST idea because he was in no mental condition to play with so many lives. Banner was the right call. Thor didn't get a big moment of dominant superheroism in the third act to show how he had changed... which was probably the better solution to that problem. He did his part, but he didn't trip over his own ego. His enthusiasm and pride over seeing his friend prove how worthy he was was more or less Thor's big moment. He still insisted on wielding the bigger, cooler weapon a few minutes later, but progress is progress. Now he's exploring that progress. He feels he isn't the rightful leader to his people and handed the spot to someone who would do better. He's joined the Guardians of the Galaxy and is awkwardly trying not to stop on Quill's toes even though you can tell it's killing him not to take lead.
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Jan 20, 2021 05:20
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He did go for the immediate kill though, he put the axe right into Thanos' chest at the first available opportunity. Then he pauses to regain his strength before trying to finish the job. The problem is that (like in Endgame) killing Thanos doesn't solve the problem and it's what Thor is focused on.
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Jan 20, 2021 06:20
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The problem was that he didn't aim for the head
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Jan 20, 2021 06:22
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Sgt. Politeness posted:Ok so apparently everyone forgot Dr. Strange's whole 1 in 4+million chance of beating Thanos but yes, for the love of God, Steve had to let every horrible thing play out exactly the same way or risk Thanos killing half the universe permanently. He loving retired. That was just a cheap copout excuse to cover their asses so everytime someone asked "well why didn't x just do y" they could point to that dumb line and justify why things had to play out the way they did. ...Well, either that or Dr Strange realized Stark was as big a threat to the world as Thanos was and figured two birds, one stone.
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Jan 20, 2021 08:27
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