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Professor Wayne posted:I haven't seen a notetaking system in it. My progress has been super slow, but I'm already way farther than my last attempt at playing Myst. Take that, 8-year-old me. I've been using the screenshot function to take pictures of the clues, it works pretty well, though it does savagely destroy the flow of the game
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Jan 22, 2021 05:05
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Thanks to those who were talking about walkabout mini golf. It’s super fun and my wife loves it too.
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Jan 22, 2021 05:07
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njsykora posted:"Apple is making a VR headset" is the "Bloodborne is being ported to PC" of this section of the industry. It comes up every few months and nothing ever comes from it because Apple fundamentally doesn't care about videogames. They literally have a subscription service for video games. Pretty sure they fundamentally care about gaming.
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Jan 22, 2021 06:13
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Nuts and Gum posted:They literally have a subscription service for video games. Pretty sure they fundamentally care about gaming. A service they add one game to a month (occasionally 2) and have barely promoted since it launched compared to how heavily they push TV and Music. They certainly don't care enough to hang an entire new device on it (as evidenced by how quickly they stopped bothering with games on Apple TV devices), see also the endless rumours over the last 20 years that Apple is making a games console or first party controller. There were rumours of them announcing some AR thing last year since one of the invite pages for an event had an AR element but that ended up being more to show off that the iPhone can do that by itself. I'd be interested if it happened, I just have zero faith that it's going to happen after 2 decades of people insisting Apple cares about games despite massive amounts of evidence to the contrary. Plus there already is a standalone white headset made by an evil tech company so they wouldn't even have that to themselves.
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Jan 22, 2021 07:00
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njsykora posted:A service they add one game to a month (occasionally 2) and have barely promoted since it launched compared to how heavily they push TV and Music. They certainly don't care enough to hang an entire new device on it (as evidenced by how quickly they stopped bothering with games on Apple TV devices), see also the endless rumours over the last 20 years that Apple is making a games console or first party controller. There were rumours of them announcing some AR thing last year since one of the invite pages for an event had an AR element but that ended up being more to show off that the iPhone can do that by itself. Clickbait articles about consoles and cars aside that completely ignores the current situation. Apple has a proprietary chip that apparently can be used in mobile formats that is extremely powerful, while gaming on consoles and PC are seeing unprecedented user engagement. I imagine a mobile VR/AR HMD is extremely attractive to them.
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Jan 22, 2021 07:28
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Nobody is doubting if Apple can make an incredibly good vr headset, just whether they will follow up with a good library of software.
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Jan 22, 2021 07:38
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theflyingexecutive posted:Nobody is doubting if Apple can make an incredibly good vr headset, just whether they will follow up with a good library of software. Yes, they absolutely can make a headset that would blow the Quest 2 out of the water, whether they will or not is another matter. Then take into account that Apple's headset would be significantly more expensive, and probably not play nice with the existing ecosystems since over time they've pissed off Facebook, Microsoft and Valve by restricting their gaming services on Apple platforms. Even if they do do it, it probably doesn't end up benefitting VR as a whole since it would likely be a completely closed system.
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Jan 22, 2021 08:08
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I think it's hard to say what's "good" or "bad" for VR since I'm not even sure if there are many people with a clear vision of what a "good" or "bad" future of VR would entail, exactly I think more people taking cracks at it is probably an indicator things are moving forward, at the very least
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Jan 22, 2021 08:23
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3rd session of Until You Fall tonight, finally got past the guy you have to dodge for the first time (the other night I got to him several times but couldn't beat him), then was able to beat him a couple more times after that. Man this game is fun and I get sweaty. I really want to get good at it and see myself become more limber. It makes me feel like I'm in Dark Souls but for real, and it kinda makes me want to see a real first person Souls (or Soulslike) VR game.
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Jan 22, 2021 09:31
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If you're getting sweaty now you'll really enjoy the second area once you have to really start being aware of what's behind you.
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Jan 22, 2021 09:38
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How would an App Store look in VR? I'm talking about from the developer side. Lot of Unity stuff in the apple environment or? I mean there are a billion games on iOS, how quickly could we get there in apple land?
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Jan 22, 2021 09:39
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Yeah the second area of Until You Fall really ramps stuff up. I haven't made it to the third area yet, but I'm ready for things to get super absurd.
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Jan 22, 2021 09:39
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I'm playing Until You fall in Easy, as in any case I want it for fitness purposes, to complement Beat Saber. Speaking of, Beat Saber last update added 90hz support for Quest 2.
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Jan 22, 2021 09:48
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re apple chat: Having an M1/M2 in a HMD would be pretty great, but not $3000 great. Maybe $1000 great. It needs something more than that though, like figuring out variable focus, massively widening FOV, eye tracking, something like that. If it's just a turbocharged Quest 2 it's not very interesting.
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Jan 22, 2021 10:09
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SCheeseman posted:re apple chat: Having an M1/M2 in a HMD would be pretty great, but not $3000 great. Maybe $1000 great. While I do agree on paper, we're probably not considering the power of the good old iBrand for generating sales.
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Jan 22, 2021 10:11
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Building an expansive ecosystem from scratch with a premium-priced product would be difficult even for Apple. iPhones are expensive now but the first few iterations were priced like budget devices.
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Jan 22, 2021 10:15
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I asked this a long time ago I think but I assume there might be new takes, anyone got good recs for archery based games? I enjoyed the one in the Lab and wanted to try more. I played the Apex Construct demo because it was free but I wasn't really feeling that, and it doesn't have the best reviews. Also has anyone here tried that Karnage game that claims to be a VR designed RPG? Sitting at mostly positive on Steam.
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Jan 22, 2021 10:16
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In Death is a very well regarded archery game.
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Jan 22, 2021 10:17
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SCheeseman posted:Building an expansive ecosystem from scratch with a premium-priced product would be difficult even for Apple. iPhones are expensive now but the first few iterations were priced like budget devices. quote:When the first iPhone was released, 11 years ago, the starting price was $499. At the time, the price was mocked by Apple’s competitors as being unrealistically high. https://qz.com/1450916/how-much-every-apple-iphone-costs-today/
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Jan 22, 2021 12:32
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They didn't need/want to build a software ecosystem with the first iPhone as the built-in applications were compelling enough to make it a solid competitor to a feature phone or PDA. Once the App Store was established the iPhone 3G was available for $199. Whatever this headset is it'll need software day one, what developers are going to be attracted to creating or porting expensive VR games to a platform that barely anyone has access to?
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Jan 22, 2021 12:43
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Yeah what  iPhones were always premium devices. Literally nothing Apple has done since Steve Jobs returned was 'budget' - even the cheapest iPods (the shuffles) were heaps more expensive than competitors while having less features. edit; SCheeseman posted:They didn't need/want to build a software ecosystem with the first iPhone as the built-in applications were compelling enough to make it a solid competitor to a feature phone or PDA. Once the App Store was established the iPhone 3G was available for $199. That was a carrier subsidized price that required buying a two year contract with AT&T. That was still radically expensive for a phone then. ishikabibble fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Jan 22, 2021 |
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Jan 22, 2021 12:47
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SCheeseman posted:They didn't need/want to build a software ecosystem with the first iPhone as the built-in applications were compelling enough to make it a solid competitor to a feature phone or PDA. Once the App Store was established the iPhone 3G was available for $199. "Barely anyone has access to" is making some big assumptions on actual sales, and the iBrand sells.
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Jan 22, 2021 13:06
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ishikabibble posted:Yeah what Besides I wasn't making a direct comparison to iPhone, only making the observation that any time a company wants to foster a software ecosystem they do so by dramatically increasing their base of consumers through cutting costs. We're in the midst of that with the Quest 1 and 2. Other than that the circumstances are fairly different, I don't think a premium Apple VR headset has the same mass appeal as a general purpose computing device like the first iPhone did. Neddy Seagoon posted:"Barely anyone has access to" is making some big assumptions on actual sales, and the iBrand sells. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Jan 22, 2021 |
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Jan 22, 2021 13:08
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ishikabibble posted:That was a carrier subsidized price that required buying a two year contract with AT&T. That was still radically expensive for a phone then. People forget about this particular point. My bet is Apple launches an AR/VR headset with 5G and we see a bidding war by carriers to get an exclusive, followed by a multi-carrier rollout. Apple products don't have to change the world, performance-wise. They just need to look good and be incredibly user-friendly. There's nothing wrong with that. Marketing and sales logistics will take care of the rest. Apple did not have the first smartphone, the first tablet, the first MP3 player, or the first wireless earbuds. What they did "revolutionize" was public perception and demand. And that's what AR/VR needs, honestly, because dedicated AR/VR devices are still largely a niche thing. We would all benefit from Apple entering the ring.
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Jan 22, 2021 13:51
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SCheeseman posted:
Well, I think we are talking with the expectation it will be a good device. That, together their brand power, is what it sells. They have 1000 devs in the AR/VR division, and they have plenty experience making hardware.
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Jan 22, 2021 13:54
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I will laugh so hard if their VR headset is basically Apple Cardboard and you just put the latest iPhone in it
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Jan 22, 2021 13:58
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:I will laugh so hard if their VR headset is basically Apple Cardboard and you just put the latest iPhone in it Just for sake of argument, Apple's retina displays in their phones would be pretty good as-is for VR wouldn't they?
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Jan 22, 2021 14:03
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Another thing I thought of, I can't see apple launching a device that comes with 2 game controllers with 6 buttons 2 sticks and 4 triggers, I can see them having something with like hand tracking as the default though as mentioned in the article. Even facebook when designing the quest had the first iteration of the controllers 'simplified' and less intimidated as game controllers, with just one large trackpad on them before backtracking when developers got upset. If they do actually release something, and they do what seems the most likely for apple, release it without controllers and have everything based on finger tracking, they won't even be able to benefit from an existing ecosystem of VR games being ported over. I don't know, its just so hard for me to see them really releasing something like this. AR headset, clearly, but VR? I just don't know.
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Jan 22, 2021 14:06
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I think the Apple Watch is probably a good comparison; very high price and poor software support but it immediately got a huge chunk of market share when it released based mostly on being decently constructed and being an apple product. My guess would be that Apple's first entry will either be a Go-like - lightweight, media-focused, possibly no position tracking - or an AR/VR hybrid. Probably no motion controllers in either case? I'd certainly like to see a direct Quest competitor from them but I think that's an outside chance at best.
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Jan 22, 2021 14:09
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Just for sake of argument, Apple's retina displays in their phones would be pretty good as-is for VR wouldn't they? Not at all, the SE2's screen (which I have) is 1334x750 and the 12 is 2532x1170 (and the Pro Max isn't much more than that), so they'd be a long way below even the Oculus Go's resolution by eye.
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Jan 22, 2021 14:12
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I have a feeling that it will be a development kit. Not a consumer thing, but available to consumers if they want it. If the specs are good, a Virtual Desktop or ALVR port would make it a PC headset pretty shortly after release anyway. e: If it's actually real. I have my doubts.
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Jan 22, 2021 14:15
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Tom Guycot posted:but... right now theres really not much use for VR beyond games. What about sculpture? Design? Art? You're ignoring everything but entertainment
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Jan 22, 2021 15:24
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mkvltra posted:What about sculpture? Design? Art? There is also the non-gaming entertainment. Movies, series, shorts, concerts, live shows, sports, virtual museums, etc. Hell, imo Facebok should invest more into partnerships to have full concerts, live acts, etc. Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Jan 22, 2021 |
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Jan 22, 2021 15:32
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SCheeseman posted:I have a feeling that it will be a development kit. Not a consumer thing, but available to consumers if they want it. If the specs are good, a Virtual Desktop or ALVR port would make it a PC headset pretty shortly after release anyway. Thats assuming an iVR would allow a VD on it, or allow side loading both of which... yeah i wouldn't think likely. mkvltra posted:What about sculpture? Design? Art? Its not that I'm ignoring them, I'm very aware of the potential, but I'm talking about what people are really using VR for right now. There are some uses as you say, but they are not utilized heavily at all at the moment, compared to VR as a video game system. Everyone since the 80's has been waxing on about the possibilities VR will bring to all these fields, but its use in them is still very light. Even in business use, someone might put a VR headset on to view a design, but no one is doing their design work really in VR. I've seen a few VR studios using VR to do basic sketches and outlines of things, but the real work of building the assets still gets done traditionally. Theres also interesting art done in VR, but its still a niche in a niche in a niche. Everyone wants to see VR getting to a point its worthwhile to do real work with, but right now, its a novelty in that space.
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Jan 22, 2021 15:47
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Tom Guycot posted:Thats assuming an iVR would allow a VD on it, or allow side loading both of which... yeah i wouldn't think likely. I don't see why they wouldn't. They allow streaming apps, just not ones that are directly integrated with third party storefronts. Sideloading without being a developer is less likely, but if it's a developer-focused device then maybe that's assumed anyway.
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Jan 22, 2021 16:15
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Tim Cook has repeatedly said that he/Apple views VR as a step on the road to AR, and it's clear they've been seriously working on this stuff for a long time. It's possible they're going to release a VR headset of some kind but it doesn't seem like the kind of thing they'd do given that they view it as a niche, gaming only thing, whereas AR has broader potential. They absolutely have the hardware and software to do it very well if they want to, though. ARKit/RealityKit has been around for years and contains hand and body tracking code, their new phones have lidar scanners for depth information, etc, and their SoCs beat the pants off of everything else in the market in terms of both raw performance and performance per watt.
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Jan 22, 2021 17:06
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The only way I can see Apple launching a VR headset is a trimmed down lightweight device that only does reprojection internally, and connects to a mandatory brand new iPhone (or possibly 5G if that doesn't turn out to be a laggy wet fart) to run software. If Apple want's AR, they'll likely do a VR headset with good passthrough cameras + LIDAR for realtime environment reconstruction. I don't think anyone is able to pull of any serious overlay AR in a long time.
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Jan 22, 2021 17:16
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Rectus posted:The only way I can see Apple launching a VR headset is a trimmed down lightweight device that only does reprojection internally, and connects to a mandatory brand new iPhone (or possibly 5G if that doesn't turn out to be a laggy wet fart) to run software. AR's also pretty worthless in the short term with COVID giving nobody any reason to go outside in most parts of the world while a VR headset is a good proof-of-concept platform they can develop from to get to AR with consumer feedback.
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Jan 22, 2021 17:38
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Apple manufactures the best system on a chip in the industry. So efficient that it doesn’t even need cooling, yet can run some PC games decently. They have the connections to many talented developers. They have stellar hardware design. Their products have good warranties and resale value. They have top notch marketing and advertising. They have never invented a new device. They’re just the first to do it right, as they did with the personal computer, mp3 player, cell phone, tablet, smart watch, and user friendly production software. People will pay $500 or more for an Apple VR headset if it has a handful of killer apps, and has a nice design and compelling features. And there won’t be the big privacy issue that Facebook has. Apple has a much better track record when it comes to users data and privacy.
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Jan 22, 2021 20:42
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The biggest problem imo is that I haven't seen anyone demonstrate they understand the platform or the market well enough to intentionally create any sort of killer app, and without that nothing else matters. Apple Watch made a lot of money but it's not like they made it indispensable and something you had to get like what happened with smart phones, so they don't have that sort of track record nowadays either
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Jan 22, 2021 20:46
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