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Maybe it's just me, but I don't get why there's so many hacks of OOT out and about, and like, 3 for A Link to the Past. You'd think it'd be the other way around
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Jan 12, 2021 21:01
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I didn't have an N64 growing up, so I never played any Zelda games, but why is it that Ocarina of Time is so much more popular than Majora's Mask? Is it like how people prefer Banjo-Kazooie because Tooie added too much stuff?
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Jan 13, 2021 02:30
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Probably the timer thing, people really don't like timers.
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Jan 13, 2021 02:34
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Timer's the big one for sure, but MM is really, really *weird* in a way that Ocarina decidedly isn't. If you just want more Zelda, Ocarina gives that to you. It's a retread of Link to the Past, but it's the same heroic story, same as Wind Waker and Skyward Sword would later on. Majora on the other hand is this is dark, apocalyptic fairy tale where despite doing your best you never truly win until the very end, and any victories you accomplish in the meantime are wiped out as soon as you save the game, and it's short on account of only having four real temples, etc, etc.
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Jan 13, 2021 02:38
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White Coke posted:I didn't have an N64 growing up, so I never played any Zelda games, but why is it that Ocarina of Time is so much more popular than Majora's Mask? Is it like how people prefer Banjo-Kazooie because Tooie added too much stuff? Is it actually more popular, though? Majora's Mask is one of those games that (IMO) aged like wine, and is still an excellent experience if you play it today, whereas Ocarina of Time while still great feels dated in some ways? This impresses me particularly because Majora's Mask was quite rushed in development and it's amazing they pulled it off when they had (IIRC) less than a year. That said, taking this premise at face value... my guess would be it's at least partially a nostalgia/anchoring thing. OoT was really impressive when it came out, there hadn't really been anything like it, and it was very successful at translating the formula to 3D. It got a lot of positive press. (OoT was also my first Zelda and the game that set off my obsession with the series.) It also had a fairly straightforward, formulaic story with just enough of its own twists (e.g. the timeskip, time travel, etc) to start off discussion, without being the (IMO) more sophisticated but messier thing Majora tried. And then there was the whole playground rumours Triforce hunt thing. I think it was just the right game at the right time to really snag a lot of us. Majora's Mask is one of those games that really rewards the time you spend with it, but also needs a certain amount of initial investment from the player before they see much of that? I remember really disliking it when it came out (okay, I was eleven), between just being annoyed I was stuck playing as young Link the entire time (I know this sounds silly in retrospect), frustration with the limited save system, it only had four proper dungeons, etc. It's a game that, for better or worse, makes quite a bad first impression, especially if what you expected going in was more OoT. Then, too, it required you to buy the N64 Expansion Pack (which barely any other games used)... I just think fewer people played it back then. I didn't properly appreciate Majora's Mask until revisiting it as an adult a couple years ago; as a kid I played it once and then went back to playing OoT again and again. That's my take, anyway. I could be talking completely out my rear end.
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Jan 13, 2021 02:49
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Artix posted:Timer's the big one for sure, but MM is really, really *weird* in a way that Ocarina decidedly isn't. If you just want more Zelda, Ocarina gives that to you. It's a retread of Link to the Past, but it's the same heroic story, same as Wind Waker and Skyward Sword would later on. Majora on the other hand is this is dark, apocalyptic fairy tale where despite doing your best you never truly win until the very end, and any victories you accomplish in the meantime are wiped out as soon as you save the game, and it's short on account of only having four real temples, etc, etc. Yep! Gothic fantasy instead of heroic fantasy. Also, for all that there's only four temples, I'm pretty sure they're on average larger than OoT temples.
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Jan 13, 2021 03:06
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Explopyro posted:And then there was the whole playground rumours Triforce hunt thing. Do tell, I love those kinds of rumors.
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Jan 13, 2021 03:13
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I'm sure someone somewhere has done an article on it, I am far from an expert as it wasn't really something I was involved with. Short version is that there were screenshots of an early demo build of the game that showed Link in a room with the Triforce (I think these made it into a lot of magazines, possibly even on the box?), but this was completely cut from the final version of the game, along with some other content that got cut for time (e.g. the light temple and wind temple, which concepts made it into later games). But because the screenshots were genuine, a lot of players became convinced there would be a way to find the Triforce ingame, and it became a huge scavenger hunt with many people using cheat devices and so on. I remember there being a lot of elaborate rumours about how to get to that room, or how to find a secret light temple, etc. Of course nothing worked, and as far as I know, nothing like that Triforce room is actually in the ROM.
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Jan 13, 2021 03:22
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Rabbi Raccoon posted:Maybe it's just me, but I don't get why there's so many hacks of OOT out and about, and like, 3 for A Link to the Past. You'd think it'd be the other way around I looked into LttP hacks at one point and found out that Hyrule Magic is a horrifying nightmare editor where it's very easy to irreversibly corrupt your ROM, which would explain why so few people bother.
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Jan 13, 2021 05:22
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Makes sense. I wouldn't wanna make something when my tool had a very real chance of destroying everything at a moment's notice either
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Jan 13, 2021 16:17
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Procrastine posted:I looked into LttP hacks at one point and found out that Hyrule Magic is a horrifying nightmare editor where it's very easy to irreversibly corrupt your ROM, which would explain why so few people bother. That, and just LTTP is more delicate in general. Ocarina just kind of lets you put whatever wherever. LTTP, as an SNES game, has a lot of shortcuts and limitations to make it work, such as palettes and tilesets. You can't just dump a Stalfos in whatever room; you need to make sure it's not going to have conflicting graphics, or that it doesn't slam into some other kind of limitation you didn't think of. Plus, there's fewer tools to play with, as a designer. The only real thing LttP has that OOT doesn't is the Cane of Somaria: everything else is either in Ocarina or functionally duplicated but with an extra dimension; whereas OOT has toys like Bombchus, Farore's Wind, and the different swords/boots/tunics. Plus, Ocarina has more text space, and capabilities for event scripting; just the opening pan over Kokiri Forest is dramatically more than the entirety of LttP can convey in its cutscenes. Moreover, Ocarina's platforming enables basic gameplay with the environment that would be dull in LttP. In short, despite what you'd think from looking at the N64 versus the SNES, and 3D versus 2D, it's actually easier to design an OOT hack than a LTTP hack, because OOT's design and engine can compose a wider breadth of ideas than LTTP does with less effort involved.
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Jan 13, 2021 16:54
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Majoras Mask also focuses a lot on side content way more than Ocarina did, since it had that three day structure you had whole side stories to engage with over one time loop. MM made it clear with the bombers notebook that you are not just a dude with a sword going to beat Ganon, you are a good dude who wants to help people solve their problems both major and minor.
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Jan 13, 2021 17:01
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OK yes but Um But like You see But um I like LTTP's gameplay better and would like more hacks of it and people making valid points destroys my dream
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Jan 13, 2021 17:11
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Rabbi Raccoon posted:OK yes but hey, I totally agree with you. The trouble is the stuff that makes LttP feel like a better game compared to OOT (tigher, brisker design, less lock-and-key progression, etc.) to those who like it more are is also the stuff that makes it harder to make hacks of.
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Jan 13, 2021 17:14
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Serious OoT modding is also something that has only really become a thing the past couple years so it has a lot of novelty attached to it. Until recently the only real OoT romhacks were Zelda's Birthday, which was a very rudimentary text/object placement hack made in 2008, and a bunch of hyper-ambitious 64DD Restoration and Majora's Mask Prequel/Sequel projects that sat in the oven for years and then fell apart Augus fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 18:23
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Rabbi Raccoon posted:OK yes but In case you didn't know, LttP hacking has its own site separate from RomHacking.net with a few hacks not on RH, though still not that many really. Secrets of the Past and Gerudo Exile are both good from what I remember, though you might want to break out the rewinds for parts of Gerudo Exile.
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Jan 13, 2021 18:36
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Zelda Classic's also pretty good at aping LttP's style, even if it uses an engine based on Zelda 1. And that community has made a lot of stuff.
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Jan 13, 2021 18:51
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White Coke posted:I didn't have an N64 growing up, so I never played any Zelda games, but why is it that Ocarina of Time is so much more popular than Majora's Mask? Is it like how people prefer Banjo-Kazooie because Tooie added too much stuff? Majora's Mask had a lot of things going against it when it came out, it only sold half as well as Ocarina of Time. It was a low-budget sequel that was developed in a year, it wasn't hyped up over several years as a landmark release like OoT was. It was released in the last year of the N64's life and required a separate piece of hardware in order to play that, at least in America, didn't come bundled with the game. In addition there was (ironically) a stigma against the game that it was a rehash because of its visual similarities to OoT and its re-used NPC models. Also, the game gave a lot less guidance to players than OoT. A lot of kids played the game, didn't know what to do to progress, ran out of time, and gave up.
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Jan 13, 2021 18:52
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Augus posted:It was released in the last year of the N64's life and required a separate piece of hardware in order to play that, at least in America, didn't come bundled with the game. This was a big one. The Dreamcast was the first new generation of consoles released in 1999 in NA and the PS2 came out later that year in October. Nintendo, themselves, announced the Gamecube a few months after Majora's Mask came out. I know I lost interest in the N64 by that point and already had a Dreamcast. Everyone I know was just waiting for the PS2. And yeah, the visual similarities between the two titles during a time when game trailers are showing the amazing graphics of the new consoles definitely hurt.
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Jan 13, 2021 19:39
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Procrastine posted:In case you didn't know, LttP hacking has its own site separate from RomHacking.net with a few hacks not on RH, though still not that many really. Secrets of the Past and Gerudo Exile are both good from what I remember, though you might want to break out the rewinds for parts of Gerudo Exile. Oh I'm working on Gerudo Exile, but it's pretty bad about pointing you in the right direction. I took a break from gaming for a few weeks because of a big work project and I have NO IDEA where I'm supposed to go. I've been wondering around and finding heart pieces, magic powder, and a shovel so things are looking up, though
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Jan 13, 2021 19:54
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I was gonna say, Zelda Classic is basically what anyone looking to hack LttP uses instead because it's way more feature rich right now. There are hundreds of quests available to play there as opposed to maybe 2 dozen LttP hacks. Good tools engender large hacking communities. Without them, a scene will never flourish. Alright class, today we're leaning about Verne.
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Jan 13, 2021 22:17
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More Giant's Knife acquisition is always good. Also the mine was very clearly The Gutter, not Blighttown.
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Jan 13, 2021 23:01
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I miss The Pit. 
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Jan 14, 2021 00:52
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Captain Fargle posted:I miss The Pit.
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Jan 14, 2021 04:04
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If you have The Pit in your rap sheet you always have a bit of home with you.
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Jan 14, 2021 19:02
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Hi all, quick update. I just finished moving to a new city, and while that went fine overall, I'm waiting on a very long ethernet cable to arrive so I can get a stable connection on my pc. There's no way I can reasonably upload videos over wifi when it's only getting ~1-4 Mbps and probably at most half that for upload. So videos will be delayed a couple more days. Probably won't stream this weekend either just because I'm still settling in.
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Jan 17, 2021 21:03
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I hope everything went/will go well for you.
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Jan 18, 2021 03:13
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FPzero posted:I was gonna say, Zelda Classic is basically what anyone looking to hack LttP uses instead because it's way more feature rich right now. There are hundreds of quests available to play there as opposed to maybe 2 dozen LttP hacks. Good tools engender large hacking communities. Without them, a scene will never flourish. ZC isn't without it's share of issues! The fact that it isn't corruption-heavy is probably the only thing going for it; there's so many dumb little things that make 0 bloody sense because it was designed as a replication first and a level editor afterwards. Large hacking communities aren't completely necessary for good stuff to come out; I'd argue that the best things happen when a random This hack is still  though. Have we surpassed the IronKnuckle count of Nimpize yet?
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Jan 19, 2021 14:36
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 I really like this part of the game, it's COOL. -------- Back to uploading videos finally. Things are more or less set up on my end now. No stream tonight once more because despite being set up I'm still not ready to run a stream from here given that I'm working with a much slower upload speed and want to test some stuff first. Plus, I still have roughly 10 videos to edit and post so I'm in no rush, even if I do want to get back to the game soon.
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Jan 23, 2021 17:51
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It's all good! Take your time when you're ready. I'm rewatching Nimpize anyway and giggling like mad as you try and get the Heart Piece in the Spirit Temple
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Jan 23, 2021 18:01
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Decided to look at Nimpize given all the references to it in earlier episodes, and it's been a little disorienting going between the two series, which only makes it funnier
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Jan 23, 2021 18:26
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It's been so long since we got the Lens that I don't even remember when or where that was lol. I want to say the Sewers? Also, all this talk about appropriate Metroid music for an ice zone but no mention of the Phendrana Drifts track? That's the quintessential ice world music for me.
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Jan 23, 2021 19:02
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Lozan Path: Super Metroid - Brinstar Ice Cavern: Final Fantasy 9 - Crystal World I really like Lozan, very atmospheric. Sort of a "cold Ikana" I guess.
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Jan 23, 2021 19:30
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I'm gonna be so disappointed when there's no ice traps in Lozan. This hack is sorely lacking in them.
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Jan 23, 2021 20:03
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Geemer posted:I'm gonna be so disappointed when there's no ice traps in Lozan. This hack is sorely lacking in them. The ice trap is a powerful symbol, you don't want to overuse it
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Jan 23, 2021 20:13
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Time to introduce the fire trap
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Jan 23, 2021 20:38
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Vinylshadow posted:Time to introduce the fire trap  C-Euro posted:It's been so long since we got the Lens that I don't even remember when or where that was lol. I want to say the Sewers? Lens was in the sewers, yeah.
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Jan 23, 2021 21:22
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Looks like there's another cave right at the start of Lozan.Procrastine posted:Ice Cavern: Final Fantasy 9 - Crystal World
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Jan 24, 2021 03:21
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 I like this place, it's just the right level of dead and wasted.
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Jan 27, 2021 01:57
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I love this level so far, with the one exception of the drop like-like-likes. A regular like-like would be OK, and a like-like-like on its own is funny, but having two drop like-like-likes has some weird dissonance in this oppressive environment. It makes perfect sense that these omni-ravenous organisms are hanging about possibly eating the dead, but the gameplay impact of losing a tunic *and* shield is cool if the idea is to tough it out in a strange new environment... but since we have the light arrows and warp songs this is just a nuisance. Like-like-like eats you, you lose tunic and shield, you pop a couple of those motherfuckers with light arrows and then warp back to towns to get your stuff back.
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Jan 27, 2021 03:23
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