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which didn't make a lot of sense when the latest version of x-force is run by the government. the x-force name has so much more baggage than x-men ever could.
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Jan 24, 2021 17:33
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I like Jean Grey's 90s costume the best, helmet and all.
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Jan 24, 2021 17:35
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She doesn't have to leave the council to do that. She got kicked off when she went against the council to go save the sword bearers. The others had permission to go. Also she could have rejoined but chose not to. Scott also isn't really a part of the council. He's separate from it, and I think that job is important enough to where he wouldn't just quit it. Their speech was like "We're gonna do this and you can't stop us, plus the council isn't for us." But yeah, the council itself is pretty much a mess, but I think it's intentionally being written that way.
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Jan 24, 2021 18:37
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:which didn't make a lot of sense when the latest version of x-force is run by the government. the x-force name has so much more baggage than x-men ever could. The actual name "X-Force" isn't mentioned in the comic book X-Force until the third issue, when Xavier says it in a private meeting about how they need a team for "deniable operations" that Krakoa will deny exists. It's used sparingly after that, exclusively by members of X-Force/The Council, never in public even to the general population of Krakoa. X-Force exists, but it's not like anyone in the Krakoan government admits they exist or is telling anyone else. The X-Men being a big public facing team (who might need to make big public appearances for [insert crisis/event here] makes at least some logic in that A) X-Force officially doesn't exist, so why would a team that doesn't exist need to be publicly separate from the Krakoan government? B) The X-Men officially exist (or will officially exist) and will be acknowledged by Krakoa but separate from the Krakoan government Think of it as the difference between the Justice League and the Suicide Squad. It makes more sense to make a big show that the Justice League are independent from the US government even while the Suicide Squad is not.
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Jan 24, 2021 20:01
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Is the 'Task Force X' directly part of the government? I always got the impression that Waller operates on one of those 'oh, we don't need to bother the president with messy details' dark budget things where she may as well be a terrorist considering they have no accountability.
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Jan 24, 2021 20:15
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I'm sure it changes over the years but the original (or at least original modern) 1980s Ostrander-era Task Force X/Suicide Squad was approved by (on-panel) President Ronald Reagan and Amanda Waller reported to the White House, though not usually directly to the President. The fact that it's designed to be a deniable government op that operates in the shadows and isn't publicly acknowledged by the government doesn't stop it from being a government op. In the New 52, Amanda Waller was an official member of ARGUS (a governmental agency) when she started the Suicide Squad as a classified government project. In general the Suicide Squad has been an official (off-books/classified/deniable) government agency more often than not, I'm pretty sure. Kind of like X-Force.
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Jan 24, 2021 20:33
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What's hilarious about X-Force is that while they've done horrible things they're relatively benign compared to most real life comparisons.
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Jan 24, 2021 20:37
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:which didn't make a lot of sense when the latest version of x-force is run by the government. the x-force name has so much more baggage than x-men ever could. Also doesn't Xavier say "to me my xmen" on page one of HoX #1?
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Jan 24, 2021 20:50
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It's almost as if the rationale for this is laid out in the comic book in which it's happening. The conversation about the term "X-Men" comes up when Cyclops proposes to the Quiet Council forming a "strike team" to stage a "smash and grab" to rescue everyone who is in Otherworld for the tournament. The Council (led by Sebastian Shaw) objects to this plan because "This is the government of a nation. We simply cannot lose so many of us in one moment of righteous madness" and talks about how doing so as an official Krakoan action could lead to destabilizing the country. The majority of the Council agrees by vote, so anyone participating cannot be part of the Krakoan government and has to step down. Cyclops responds with, "You formed the Quiet Council to be the government of Krakoa. Well... the X-Men are its heroes." Then the text page: "X-Men #15"[/quote posted:REGARDING THE X-MEN In the next issue, Cyclops and Jean reiterate that they want to form a popularly elected team of Heroes, separate from the official Krakoan government, and that's the X-Men team that is forming. I don't think anyone in the text of the comic is trying to say the term "X-Men" is forbidden or a slur or whatever, it's that Krakoa is making a concerted effort not to use the term X-Men in public facing discussions, and to elaborate on the rationale quoted above: 1) The X-Men were always a team of superheroes/anti-heroes/supervillains (often the latter in the eyes of the public) fighting big fights, or a school, or something that isn't a Nation. Making it clear that Krakoa is not the X-Men, but a Nation of Mutants makes a lot of sense if you're trying to build the legitimacy of Krakoa. 2) There are a ton of people on Krakoa who were sworn enemies of "the X-Men" who are now supposed to be harmoniously part of Krakoa. If for some reason all of the NBA teams had to merge into one nation and they just kept getting called The Los Angeles Lakers I'm sure there would be hard feelings. Having Cyclops and Jean (citizens of Krakoa but not part of its governmental structure) having a team of heroes who call themselves the X-Men who are separate and distinct from just having anyone who is a mutant or Krakoan be called an "X-Man" seems like a reasonable compromise, especially because two longstanding and influential members of the community are so dead-set on it. Xavier and Magneto (as governmental leaders, politicians, tacticians) aren't 100% thrilled with it, but also have personal relationships with Scott and Jean and are more amenable to letting them do this than they would be if like...two mutants they never met decided to pitch it. Xavier saying his old catchphrase in private to a group of resurrected former students who were all literally part of "The X-Men" isn't some sort of huge plot hole. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jan 24, 2021 |
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Jan 24, 2021 23:41
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And you can probably infer that Xavier is being a proud dad, in a book full of proud dads, and letting Scott and Jean do their own thing separate from his direct influence.
Open Marriage Night fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jan 25, 2021 |
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Jan 25, 2021 01:22
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X-Men books are very good right now, a bunch of the fictional characters depicted in them aren't good people.
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Jan 25, 2021 01:26
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It's a lot of words to reconcile an "problem" that was only a problem because the writing went out of its way to frame it as such. The ruling that Council members shouldn't be out doing dangerous things if they're the government of the nation, while seeming reasonable on its face, has also been largely negligible. Kate isn't even there more than half the time. Sinister and Storm weren't there at the time because they got sent to do dangerous things. Shaw is absolutely right to make this point, but it's undercut by how arbitrary the point is and will likely remain. Like, oh, this one specific time it's a problem? And like, yeah, on the surface it makes total sense that the X-Men shouldn't be answerable to the Council but again, Cyclops is still Great Captain and therefore literally answerable to the Council...he's absolutely still an arm of the Krakoan government by the nature of his job. Again, it's an arbitrary ruling, one that's simply waved off by Scott just going hey it's aiight, I'll do both at the same time...in the same breath that he declares that the two roles should be separate. Point being, there's no storytelling reason why Jean couldn't have just said the same. As a result, it doesn't feel like Jean left the Council because there are good reasons councilmembers can't be X-Men; instead, they made reasons that councilmembers can't be X-Men because Hickman wanted Jean to leave the Council.
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Jan 25, 2021 01:33
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You were correct the first time.BrianWilly posted:It's a lot of words to reconcile an "problem" that was only a problem because the writing went out of its way to frame it as such. BrianWilly posted:
I like that about the book
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Jan 25, 2021 01:40
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https://www.marvel.com/characters/x-men-vote
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Jan 26, 2021 18:56
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Those are the options at the bottom of the page?
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Jan 26, 2021 19:27
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I'd vote for Cannonball, but Sam without Roberto ain't nearly as fun. Also vice-versa.
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Jan 26, 2021 19:38
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Kinda hard to choose without the rest of the line-up, but I'm voting Marrow since I think she'd be the most fun. I actually really enjoyed her shaking things up in the late 90s and she has layers, like bones! (I can't choose Sam without Roberto, or vice versa. I'm not a monster.)
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Jan 26, 2021 19:46
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Endless Mike posted:I'd vote for Cannonball, but Sam without Roberto ain't nearly as fun. Also vice-versa. edit: oh I didn't realize this was the final member. Between Banshee, Boom-boom and Strong Guy I guess. Probably Strong Guy.
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Jan 26, 2021 19:53
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I'd probably pick marrow, armor or forge as the others are already doing stuff or just don't interest me as much. Even forge bops about in x-force, so probably the first two.
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Jan 26, 2021 19:55
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Fritzler posted:List has both. Armor, Banshee, Boom-Boom, Canonball, Forge, Marrow, Polaris, Strong Guy, Sunspot and Tempo. Which honestly just sounds like a slightly bigger than regular sized X-Men team by itself. I suspect they'll show a different set each day, how many we'll be able to vote on per day remains to be seen.
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Jan 26, 2021 19:56
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Skwirl posted:I suspect they'll show a different set each day, how many we'll be able to vote on per day remains to be seen. Why would they show a different set each day when this is all to pick exactly one member?
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Jan 26, 2021 20:08
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definitely tempo because she has a cool power and has never been an x-man.
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Jan 26, 2021 20:12
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Sunspot was very cool without Cannonball being around every second in Ewing's Avengers. They're bros, not joined at the hip. 
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Jan 26, 2021 20:21
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Endless Mike posted:Why would they show a different set each day when this is all to pick exactly one member? OOh, I misunderstood. I thought it was just a fun poll, not something that would actually influence who was in the comic book.
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Jan 26, 2021 20:39
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Skwirl posted:OOh, I misunderstood. I thought it was just a fun poll, not something that would actually influence who was in the comic book.
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Jan 26, 2021 20:58
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Yeah can't pick Bobby without Sam and vice versa so Tabby gets the nod from me!
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Jan 26, 2021 22:29
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have to choose between strong guy (visually interesting, often fun personality), polaris (tons of hooks into the setting and into other characters), and tempo (wildcard candidate!!)
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Jan 26, 2021 22:45
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I'm all-in on Strong Guy.
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Jan 26, 2021 22:47
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Tempo had a brief moment as an interesting supporting cast member in Nicieza's X-Force so I voted for her. Give her a moment in the sun.
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Jan 26, 2021 22:53
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I don't want Hickman writing Polaris. He doesn't have the hang of the character at all from the brief scenes she and Magneto were together with him writing. Armor, Strong Guy, or Forge would probably work better. Tempo is a complete wild card and I wouldn't mind her either, but can't imagine 90% of the people putting in votes know her.
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Jan 26, 2021 23:22
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Saoshyant posted:I don't want Hickman writing Polaris. He doesn't have the hang of the character at all from the brief scenes she and Magneto were together with him writing. i refuse to engage in strategic voting for slots on the x-men roster
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Jan 26, 2021 23:28
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Tempo's gonna have a strong showing, X-fans loving love obscure but interesting characters like that. Personally I'm torn between her, Strong Guy, or Banshee because I'm the person who has always loved Banshee.
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Jan 26, 2021 23:29
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Sean Cassidy needs a W
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Jan 26, 2021 23:31
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OK but think about it. If we get Roberto on the X-Men, he can start his infinite keikakus all over again!
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Jan 26, 2021 23:42
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Soonmot posted:Yeah can't pick Bobby without Sam and vice versa so Tabby gets the nod from me! https://twitter.com/TiniHoward/status/1354163282773307392?s=20
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Jan 26, 2021 23:50
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Saoshyant posted:I don't want Hickman writing Polaris. He doesn't have the hang of the character at all from the brief scenes she and Magneto were together with him writing. Ehh, A bunch of people, myself included, didn't like how he wrote Jean in HoxPox, but the stuff he's written with her since has been good.
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Jan 26, 2021 23:52
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Yeah I need to flip a coin between Guido and Tempo.
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Jan 27, 2021 00:19
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Marrow for me, for one she was in MvC. I just like any rad 90s character getting a second chance. Plus I like that kind of wild hodgepodge of cool ideas feel the team often has. Marrow is on the edge, raw, untamed, we're talking about somebody who's about to "get bizzay". I'm probably not making my case here, just envision her visage graffiti'd onto a Pizza Hut. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83Z_QQy4XB8 (Alice in Chains featured in Street Fighter II is the vibe I'm campaigning for here. "Them Bones" apropos.) Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Jan 27, 2021 |
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Jan 27, 2021 01:10
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I'm a sucker for Forge. Speaking of: I'm reading through all of the post-Claremont X-Overs, and there's a really interesting part in the Phalanx Covenant where Xavier goes into Forge's mind and is shocked at how Forge's powers make him "see" the world. It's a really cool concept that I'm hoping comes up again and if it doesn't, it's the kind of thing that's ripe for someone like Hickman to play with. 
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Jan 27, 2021 01:38
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That reads like Forge has low to mid level cosmic awareness like guys like the Silver Surfer, Thor, Galactus, etc. have.
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Jan 27, 2021 01:47
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