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Caesar Saladin posted:Bioshock 1 and 2 have one of the best environmental aesthetics around and the enemies are very very cool and creepy. I wish the gunplay was better and that the story went somewhere more satisfying. Yeah and all those aesthetics are force fed to you in carefully choreographed sequences connected by very clear linear paths. It's not possible to get lost in Bioshock 1, and I'm stopping my playthrough of 2 because I've played a lot of really good immersive sims in the intervening years and it just doesn't scratch that itch at all
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Jan 25, 2021 03:24
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Duck and Cover posted:Spending even ten minutes playing any (okay not any but you get the idea) game with chat makes it obvious that this is the case. I thought I was clear but when I say gamers are poo poo that doesn't mean every person who plays games is poo poo. Maybe I should have said popular (or at least most vocal) gamer culture is poo poo? Yeah I think that's more of a consequence of anonymous online chatrooms than the hobby they're attached to. You wouldn't expect MLP communities, K-pop fandoms and anonymous crypto chatrooms to have bigotry problems, but if you go diving in random chatrooms it's there. And somehow sports are more embraced by mainstream culture despite having a fanbase and industry figures that are several magnitudes more toxic and bigoted. Ironically, industry data itself says that self-described "gamers" are more likely to be low-income minorities than people who play games but deny the "gamer" label.
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Jan 25, 2021 03:26
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je1 healthcare posted:Yeah I think that's more of a consequence of anonymous online chatrooms than the hobby they're attached to. You wouldn't expect MLP communities, K-pop fandoms and anonymous crypto chatrooms to have bigotry problems, but if you go diving in random chatrooms it's there. And somehow sports are more embraced by mainstream culture despite having a fanbase and industry figures that are several magnitudes more toxic and bigoted. Did you just do a whataboutism of sports to defend the honor of gamers lmao
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Jan 25, 2021 03:29
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feelix posted:Yeah and all those aesthetics are force fed to you in carefully choreographed sequences connected by very clear linear paths. It's not possible to get lost in Bioshock 1, and I'm stopping my playthrough of 2 because I've played a lot of really good immersive sims in the intervening years and it just doesn't scratch that itch at all It doesn't matter if its linear, its still neat. Most games are linear and there are a lot of games that are open ended and crappy. The game has an visual style and sound design that nobody has really pulled off since. Its not a perfect game but I don't regreat playing through it. Its clearly not an immersive sim like Prey is and doesn't really try to be. That doesn't stop the Big Daddies and the splicers from looking awesome. I don't know why you want to get lost in a video game, getting lost sucks.
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Jan 25, 2021 03:40
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Caesar Saladin posted:It doesn't matter if its linear, its still neat. Most games are linear and there are a lot of games that are open ended and crappy. The game has an visual style and sound design that nobody has really pulled off since. Its not a perfect game but I don't regreat playing through it. Its clearly not an immersive sim like Prey is and doesn't really try to be. That doesn't stop the Big Daddies and the splicers from looking awesome. But everyone puts it on the same category as Prey, why? As said, people claim that Bioshock was an appropriate spiritual successor to system shock and then Infinite simplified it down to a shooter, but the step from SS 2 to Bioshock was already most of the way there Getting lost in purpose rules and is the entire point of immersive sims
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Jan 25, 2021 03:44
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People are just stupid and love to poo poo on it in the context of Prey and Thief but it really doesn't have much to do with them as far as gameplay design goes. Its just a slow paced shooter and it gives you a lot of stuff to look at in the levels but mostly fails as a shooter. it succeeds in a lot of ways that people outright ignore. Getting lost isn't the point of Immersive Sims, exploring is a big part of it but if you're actually getting lost in a game then something has gone wrong with the design and you didn't make your levels properly. Thief 1 and 2 even give you a map when you enter the levels.
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Jan 25, 2021 03:48
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Caesar Saladin posted:People are just stupid and love to poo poo on it in the context of Prey and Thief but it really doesn't have much to do with them as far as gameplay design goes. Its just a slow paced shooter and it gives you a lot of stuff to look at in the levels but mostly fails as a shooter. it succeeds in a lot of ways that people outright ignore. Where do people poo poo on Bioshock? In the unpopular video games opinions thread maybe? Everywhere else it gets unequivocal acclaim, part of which is an unearned characterization as a pillar of a genre it's not part of.
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Jan 25, 2021 03:52
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People on this forum and the general internet love to poo poo on Bioshock, I'm surprised you haven't seen it.
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Jan 25, 2021 03:55
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90% of the problem with modern western RPGs would be solved if nothing but the playable character had a levelling mechanic. The trouble with this is that developers would then have to properly balance the player's progression through the game and balance enemies rather than dynamically tying everything to player level and making sure that hitting a level 10 rat with a level 10 character using a level 10 sword does 10 HP damage out of its pool of 20 HP whereas when you come back to the same area hitting a level 20 rat with a level 20 sword wielded by a level 20 character does 20 HP damage out of its pool of 40 HP.
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Jan 25, 2021 04:01
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Same except instead of only having the player level just remove levels entirely.
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Jan 25, 2021 04:14
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feelix posted:But everyone puts it on the same category as Prey, why? As said, people claim that Bioshock was an appropriate spiritual successor to system shock and then Infinite simplified it down to a shooter, but the step from SS 2 to Bioshock was already most of the way there it happens but I will gently caress up anyone who puts Bioshock in the same category as Prey I recall the "spiritual successor to System Shock" mumbo jumbo but I think that must surely have been an "any port in a storm" situation. We were lost in a desert for 20 years and when we found a tiny pool of water with a dead rat in it game reviewers were like "Look at this magnificent oasis, we have found paradise!"
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Jan 25, 2021 04:33
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Meme Poker Party posted:Same except instead of only having the player level just remove levels entirely. Nah, it loving rules having places that are below and above your level. Love making headway into an area you're not supposed to go to yet, but also love saving an area for later and destroying it when you're OP. Unless you suggest powering up via equipment only a la STALKER in which case that's just a semantic argument IMO. Dynamic leveling sucks.
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Jan 25, 2021 04:38
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feelix posted:Nah, it loving rules having places that are below and above your level. Love making headway into an area you're not supposed to go to yet, but also love saving an area for later and destroying it when you're OP. Unless you suggest powering up via equipment only a la STALKER in which case that's just a semantic argument IMO. Dynamic leveling sucks. I'm trying to think of many rpgs or rpg-adjacent games from the last ten years that didn't have some kind of dynamic scaling. At least the ones that had the freedom you're talking about. Souls series maybe?
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Jan 25, 2021 04:53
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Manager Hoyden posted:I'm trying to think of many rpgs or rpg-adjacent games from the last ten years that didn't have some kind of dynamic scaling. At least the ones that had the freedom you're talking about. Souls series maybe? Souls is a perfect example of the joy of sequence breaking OP areas early or steamrolling areas you saved later but other than that yeah IDK. Even WoW has it now
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Jan 25, 2021 04:55
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areas above and below your level are great, but they only work properly in games with instanced stages or screens that separate regions, because you know, okay this is the easy area or this area will gently caress you up. like secret of mana. this breaks down completely in open world games because there's no way to determine which order the player will encounter things. but rather than having "areas with weak enemies," they just scale everything up while leaving high-level content untouched. this way, there are still dangerous areas (though unmarked), but content will never be underwhelmingly easy for players even if they run into a low level encounter very late in the game. the thing is, some of the appeal of leveling up IS the part where you've become so strong that you can walk through the middle of a hail of gunfire and shrug it off
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Jan 25, 2021 05:05
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je1 healthcare posted:Yeah I think that's more of a consequence of anonymous online chatrooms than the hobby they're attached to. You wouldn't expect MLP communities, K-pop fandoms and anonymous crypto chatrooms to have bigotry problems, but if you go diving in random chatrooms it's there. And somehow sports are more embraced by mainstream culture despite having a fanbase and industry figures that are several magnitudes more toxic and bigoted. Was really funny when a bunch of game journalists put on their pith helmets to go to a fighting game tournament hoping to get some hot takes dunking on the gamers and then backed out slowly when they realised it was full of people much poorer and less white than they are
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Jan 25, 2021 05:41
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Fur20 posted:areas above and below your level are great, but they only work properly in games with instanced stages or screens that separate regions, because you know, okay this is the easy area or this area will gently caress you up. like secret of mana. Nah, Gothic did the whole 'no UI, no idea what level anything is, totally open world" thing. First time you saw a monster you had no idea if it was a tough fight, or if it simply was going to one-shot you. And it was a great game! Not despite this, but because of it, and the other purity-of-vision things that the devs did.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:18
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Finished up Cyberpunk last night and it really is amazing that a game can be in such an utter shite state and run like rear end on my crappy PC yet it's the best game I've played in ages. Easily one of my top ten of all time. I look forward to revisiting it once it's been patched up and modded and I have better hardware. Should note that while I had no experience with the Cyberpunk pen and paper I've always loved Shadowrun and this is pretty much exactly that without magic and elves prancing about.
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Jan 25, 2021 08:18
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It's still in steam top sellers too
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Jan 25, 2021 08:34
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Caesar Saladin posted:People on this forum and the general internet love to poo poo on Bioshock, I'm surprised you haven't seen it. People on this forum love to utterly poo poo on BioShock Infinite - a 10 hour long game - while insisting that 90 hour long anime rpgs are incredible 
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Jan 25, 2021 08:52
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sebmojo posted:It's still in steam top sellers too Well if your PC is up to snuff and you can deal with occasionally having to save and reload because the game got wonky it's a great experience.
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Jan 25, 2021 09:27
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I feel like if you've waited this long you might as well wait for a price drop
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Jan 25, 2021 09:28
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Oh for sure, if you have other games to play then wait for patches and a sale. I had feck else that I wanted to play. Next up is the Kingdoms of Amalur remaster since it was on sale, lol.
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Jan 25, 2021 10:06
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all i know is i tried to play bioshock on like 4 separate occasions, really giving it a chance but getting incredibly bored with it, it also just doesn't work as a satire because libertarianism is its own satire
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Jan 25, 2021 10:10
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if anything the thing that makes the world hard to take seriously is that the underwater city is shown to have functioned at all at some point in the past. in reality a libertarian atlantis would just never get off the ground and nobody would even want to go there
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Jan 25, 2021 10:11
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Shibawanko posted:all i know is i tried to play bioshock on like 4 separate occasions, really giving it a chance but getting incredibly bored with it, it also just doesn't work as a satire because libertarianism is its own satire It worked for me, because it didnt so much explore libertarianism as liberatianism's early-mid century creation myths. It's not like the game had you going up against IT workers with neckbeards. What was galling was the "both-sidsing" poo poo that emerged in the sequels.
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Jan 25, 2021 10:28
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Binfinite also didn't work as a satire because America is its own satire.
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Jan 25, 2021 10:54
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Shibawanko posted:if anything the thing that makes the world hard to take seriously is that the underwater city is shown to have functioned at all at some point in the past. in reality a libertarian atlantis would just never get off the ground and nobody would even want to go there The cigarettes and booze are real cheap because there's no sin tax. The plastic surgery is risky but there aren't a lot of people complaing.
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Jan 25, 2021 11:45
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Bioshock had all these extra ways to approach situations but completely disincentivised the player from taking them by making them a pain in the rear end to do and much less effective than just shooting or meleeing enemies. You could sneak past an enemy, hack a health dispenser, sneak back, hit him enough to injure him but not kill him then let him go and kill himself on the hacked dispenser... but it wouldn't save you any time, or be safer, or cost fewer resources.
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Jan 25, 2021 11:47
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I wrote this elsewhere, but its better in this thread: Hades is good, but the anime Greek Gods thing loving sucks and nothing is lost by skipping every single piece of dialogue. The main guy sounds like an emo investment banker and will call people "mate" like he's an East End bus driver and it makes me cringe every time I hear it.
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Jan 25, 2021 11:54
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Anime Artemis is my bae and you will not speak ill of her
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Jan 25, 2021 12:10
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Disco Pope posted:I wrote this elsewhere, but its better in this thread: If you arnt playing Hades for the voice acting and presentation then i dont know what the draw is man because the actual game is a mile wide and an inch deep
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Jan 25, 2021 12:18
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JollyBoyJohn posted:People on this forum love to utterly poo poo on BioShock Infinite - a 10 hour long game - while insisting that 90 hour long anime rpgs are incredible The problem is that Bioshock isn't good at any of the multitude of bases it attempts to cover so even at 10 hours it's a pretty mediocre 10 hours. If it's a good JRPG though, it's good for 90 hours. 
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Jan 25, 2021 12:33
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RillAkBea posted:The problem is that Bioshock isn't good at any of the multitude of bases it attempts to cover so even at 10 hours it's a pretty mediocre 10 hours. If it's a good JRPG though, it's good for 90 hours. Yeah my post was a bad illustration of time v quality but I'm just the kinda person who has much more fun with BioShock than Kingdom Hearts
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Jan 25, 2021 12:35
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the art style of Bioshock 1 is enough to make it hold up for ten hours.
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Jan 25, 2021 12:35
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Like all goon favourite games, it's actually really bad!!!
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Jan 25, 2021 12:43
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The only good video game ever created was King of Chicago, mac version.
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Jan 25, 2021 12:56
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No, the Mac version of Shufflepuck Cafe is also good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di8P3skzq2A
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Jan 25, 2021 13:11
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Ruffian Price posted:For Honor should have ditched multiplayer entirely and made an actual campaign instead of the long tutorial we've got. There's a great and unique game in there All games should ditch multi-player except for co-operative play in the "campaign". People who enjoy competitive multi-player should just find another hobby and stop ruining games.
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Jan 25, 2021 13:19
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3D Megadoodoo posted:All games should ditch multi-player except for co-operative play in the "campaign". People who enjoy competitive multi-player should just find another hobby and stop ruining games. What about the ones that are millionaires or even the ones making a sustainable and living salary?
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Jan 25, 2021 13:21
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