|
The Eyes Have It posted:I think this hits the nail on the head. Terraforming Mars is easier to play and grasp during one's first game, and it is friendly to new players in other ways, as well: Completely disagree with all of this. I've taught Scythe to folks that have only played Cards Against Humanity and the like and it was smooth and quick. The decision space is a lot smaller, the game naturally flows towards the endgame trigger, the systems are simpler, and it plays in half the time. They're both mediocre games, but Scythe is definitely easier to teach new players and easier for them to play in the system without floundering.
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 02:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 05:22 |
|
|
Tekopo posted:The thread must accept that it's not that TfM in of itself is bad, but that all drafting games are bad.  b-b-but I just purchased Inis!
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 07:11
|
|
|
Consider: Drafting games are just simultaneous-play worker placement games with cards instead of dudes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 07:55
|
|
|
Bottom Liner posted:Completely disagree with all of this. I've taught Scythe to folks that have only played Cards Against Humanity and the like and it was smooth and quick. The decision space is a lot smaller, the game naturally flows towards the endgame trigger, the systems are simpler, and it plays in half the time. They're both mediocre games, but Scythe is definitely easier to teach new players and easier for them to play in the system without floundering. I was mostly just taking the opportunity to list stuff I thought was good and accessible about Terraforming Mars. I feel Scythe does have a couple unintuitive bits, but nothing that'll break people's brains or anything(*) * unless you count that it is not primarily a game about giant robots duking it out 
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 08:38
|
|
|
Radioactive Toy posted:
Drafting in Innis is just secret action selection so it doesn't count. With TfM it's easy to see you need to terrform Mars, but when you're drafting half the cards do not involve terraforming mars. Do you draft the card about have pets? Who knows.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 09:24
|
|
|
Aggro posted:For the record, I thought it was funny and did not report it. I'm glad you weren't offended, that wasn't my intent. I should have spent a little time explaining why TfM is a bad game, though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 09:54
|
|
|
That probe is hilarious given the history of this thread.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 10:45
|
|
|
Control Volume posted:Thats not true, just look at Magic the gatherrrrhmmmmm. huh. Cube draft is my favourite game, by some way. Drafting from regular boosters ranks among regular board games though for sure, and might be bad. Also: I have a LOT of friends that I know through magic, a lot of my social and online life revolve around it, I travel across the county for tournaments etc. But even I think it's sometimes (maybe often) a trash game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 10:58
|
|
|
Hi thread, so at the beginning of last year I got really into boardgames, that worked out pretty well. I'm sitting on 20 games not counting expansions, and have played most of them like 1-2 times with other people, and some of them not at all. This sadly doesn't stop me from buying more. Just ordered Dune even though it's going to be really tough finding a group for it, even disregarding isolation concerns. But I just love the idea of it and want to have it and look at it and whisper to it on long winter nights. Also ordered High Frontier, before learning that Eklund is a trashman, but I'm extremely thirsty for any realistic space games and this seems like specifically tailored to me not ever leaving my house again. Man, that map.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 15:07
|
|
|
Seems to be working out badly for you, op.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 15:32
|
|
|
The Eyes Have It posted:* unless you count that it is not primarily a game about giant robots duking it out At the end of the day, I think its this betrayal that makes me hate Scythe the most
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 15:50
|
|
|
DoW just announced the 15th Anniversary Edition of TTR: Europe. Features a larger board, pretty cards and of course sick new trains like the TTR: 10th edition. I have the 10th edition of TTR and love it but rarely break it out these days. Probably going to get this for someone in my though. https://www.daysofwonder.com/tickettoride/en/europe-anniversary/ 
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 16:29
|
|
|
Control Volume posted:At the end of the day, I think its this betrayal that makes me hate Scythe the most I think the fact that the game looks so nice while being so boring to play is the worst, but the lack of giant robot punching is definitely up there
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 17:26
|
|
|
Tekopo posted:The thread must accept that it's not that TfM in of itself is bad, but that all drafting games are bad. Them's fightin' words. I love pure drafting games like 7 Wonders, Sushi Go, Greed (hidden gem!), etc. I do think that most games that have a drafting portion within a bigger game can sometimes be an indication of lazy design. MTG draft is an exception because that's basically a prologue to the real game, just like deck building in sealed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 17:47
|
|
|
For the record, TTR Europe was the first hobby board game I ever played way back in the mid to late 2000s and it's what got me into the hobby. Anyway, that anniversary edition looks cool, but yeah, I have the 10th anniversary of TTR and don't really play it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 17:53
|
|
|
theroachman posted:Them's fightin' words. I love pure drafting games like 7 Wonders, Sushi Go, Greed (hidden gem!), etc. I do think that most games that have a drafting portion within a bigger game can sometimes be an indication of lazy design. MTG draft is an exception because that's basically a prologue to the real game, just like deck building in sealed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 18:01
|
|
|
That’s probably why most drafting games are best at 3. Inis and 7 Wonders fall into that at least.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 18:22
|
|
|
I feel like drafting games run into a problem where there's a depth limit beyond which you basically require players to memorize all the cards. It's like a board game where the vast majority of the board is covered so players are either acting blind to most of the gamespace or they've memorized the whole board beforehand. And the board is the size of your living room.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 18:47
|
|
|
7 wonders has some toxic poo poo where, if the cards line up right, you can completely scuttle a civ. I managed it once against Giza B where he never had a chance to play stone because me and the other player just tossed them into wonders or the discard every chance we saw. There was a total of 2 stone on the board that game so Giza just collapsed.
Control Volume fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jan 25, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 18:47
|
|
|
The reason I bounced off drafting games is because while the base mechanism is simple, the games require a lot of upfront information to be known in order to feel like a game over an activity. Sushi Go Party is wonderful for that because there is a board that shows all of the card types in the middle of the table. Provides an easy reference plus variety. It also doesn't bog down the drafting with anything else. Sushi Go Party over 7 Wonders 10/10 days.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 18:50
|
|
|
Phigs posted:I feel like drafting games run into a problem where there's a depth limit beyond which you basically require players to memorize all the cards. It's like a board game where the vast majority of the board is covered so players are either acting blind to most of the gamespace or they've memorized the whole board beforehand. And the board is the size of your living room. Yeah that's one of the big concerns I have about Darwin's Journey, they want you to draft cards and you have no idea what's what. Same with 1846, it effectively forces you into a draft and again as a new player you don't know what to choose. One big reason to start newbies off with 18Chesapeake, it doesn't really matter what you draft there, you can't make any game killing errors in the draft.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 18:58
|
|
|
Phigs posted:I feel like drafting games run into a problem where there's a depth limit beyond which you basically require players to memorize all the cards. It's like a board game where the vast majority of the board is covered so players are either acting blind to most of the gamespace or they've memorized the whole board beforehand. And the board is the size of your living room. I think that can be true about some games with larger draft pools. To me, Lorenzo hits the sweet spot of essentially being a drafting game (it is) but also having a limited enough pool of both card choices and possible effects to where you're not hugely disadvantaged if you come into the game blind. You can either refresh quickly on a cheat sheet or figure it out reasonably quickly on the fly. Yes, experienced players will have the edge but show me a game of any depth where that isn't true. Personally, I just wouldn't play often with folks who'd memorize all the cards in one particular game anyhow. Life's too short. ;-)
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 19:08
|
|
|
Galaxy Trucker is a drafting game about drafting a plan for a spaceship
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 19:24
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:Galaxy Trucker is a drafting game about drafting a plan for a spaceship Probably going to pick this up once we burn through Maracaibos lifespan.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 19:31
|
|
|
Control Volume posted:Probably going to pick this up once we burn through Maracaibos lifespan. I don't know if it's been publicly announced, but there is an expansion for Maracaibo in the pipline.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 19:33
|
|
|
With the release of Dice Throne Adventures, I thought Dice Throne was a big enough thing to warrant a thread of its own. It can be found here
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 19:35
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:Galaxy Trucker is a drafting game about drafting a plan for a spaceship lotta airquotes missing in this post
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 19:41
|
|
|
Galaxy Trucker is a drafting "game" about drafting a "plan" for a "spaceship"
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 20:01
|
|
|
Control Volume posted:Galaxy Trucker is a drafting "game" about drafting a "plan" for a "spaceship"
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 20:12
|
|
|
Galaxy Trucker "is".
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 20:20
|
|
|
Ga"""lax"y"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Tr""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""ucker"""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" e.e. cummings
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 20:20
|
|
|
Phigs posted:I feel like drafting games run into a problem where there's a depth limit beyond which you basically require players to memorize all the cards. It's like a board game where the vast majority of the board is covered so players are either acting blind to most of the gamespace or they've memorized the whole board beforehand. And the board is the size of your living room. Yeah drafting needs to either have a small number of possibilities that players can learn immediately or open information so they can immediately see the value of each card relative to the game state. That's why Inis works so well IMO. It only has 14 cards to learn which people pick up on quickly, but further than that it's only a mix of a few actions spread across those cards in different ways (move/fight, recruit, place a building or tile, draw a card, counter, etc). Blood Rage is overall a solid game but uses drafting in that lazy way. The trap it falls into is that the cards dictate entire strategies and have a lot of built in synergy with one another as opposed to with the general goals of the game, and on top of that it has a seeded deck for progressive rounds. So players need to see the full game in action to be able to valuate the cards and strategies and the first game will be a wash generally. I agree that most drafting games fall into some form of lazy design for distribution of resources/powers, but there are a few that stand out as using it well. Looking over my collection, Sushi Roll, Inis, Res Arcana, and Paper Tales all do drafting well and in a way I see no faults with. Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Jan 25, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 20:44
|
|
|
The laziest drafting game is Agricola
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 21:07
|
|
|
Bottom Liner posted:Yeah drafting needs to either have a small number of possibilities that players can learn immediately or open information so they can immediately see the value of each card relative to the game state. Another factor that helps with the drafting in Inis is that cards held in your hand from the first round of drafting can still be passed along in later rounds. Its more flexible and allows you to shift to building a different sort of hand for the next round pretty quickly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 23:01
|
|
|
Control Volume posted:Ga"""lax"y"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Galaxy Trucker is an experience generator more than it is a game. If anything, it's the kind of game where actually trying hard and doing well makes it less fun. Which is a core problem of the design, yes, but if you have to play it? Don't play to win.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 23:09
|
|
|
Nothing beats the satisfaction of making a ship that's has storage,defense and offense; then getting the cold sweats as you realize that it's all fulcrumed on one piece that is out in the open unguarded from damage.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2021 01:29
|
|
|
Alternatively, if you want to play to win, play the app. It's got a pretty decent single player mode and automating all of the chaos gets you back to the fun part of the game quicker.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2021 03:16
|
|
|
Drafting in Flamme Rouge is a lot of fun.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2021 03:40
|
|
|
How good is branch and claw? So far spirit island is fun, but punishingly difficult, how much better does it make it? The digital version doesn't have it available so I have no way to tell.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2021 15:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 05:22 |
|
|
Jarvisi posted:How good is branch and claw? So far spirit island is fun, but punishingly difficult, how much better does it make it? The digital version doesn't have it available so I have no way to tell. YMMV. It brings good ideas to the table but I don't think it does the best job implementing most of them. Some people swear by it though. It does introduce concepts used in the bigger (and IMO better) second expansion so it doesn't hurt to pick it up to familiarize yourself with some of the new stuff. If you're a digital only player it might be a while before Jagged Earth hits.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2021 15:50
|
|
