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CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

azflyboy posted:

The other thing about the "supersonic airliner/business jet" business model that makes zero sense is that both of the companies promising one of those airplanes are relying combining a new airframe and new engine, which rarely works for companies like Boeing or Airbus, let alone a startup based on VC morons giving them money.

Eh, as someone who has engineered planes and other things that fly I feel like there’s a lot that goes on at the big companies that simply isn’t needed for a clean sheet development.

I worked on a 600 person development program that if it was cut to 300 and the money was private and not govt the thing still would’ve flown and nearly on schedule. At the prototype stage you’re better off with good subsystem and system level tests and test engineers rather than a litany of people who track and write 400 pages on every minute risk, and are hunting contract mod opportunities at every turn. Such is the life of govt and big company developed things that fly.

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hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Sagebrush posted:

The article says they are planning to have the first flight in 2024 and on the market in 2026.

And while the public does appreciate shorter flight times, I don't think they appreciate them enough to pay for the exponentially higher costs of operating a supersonic airplane, let alone one that has to amortize the cost over 12 people.

The general traveling public did not consider the shorter flight time to be worth the price of a Concorde ticket, and that was a full-sized airliner that flew at Mach 2. Aeronautical engineering has gotten better since the 1960s but it will always cost more money to fly at m=1.4 than m=0.85.

If the plane ever exists (I would give them, generously, a one in four chance of making it to a supersonic test flight) it will be for rich assholes like Musk and Bezos, full stop.


I believe it is unethical to design things that could only be used by the vampire class that are ruining the planet. gently caress them.

The only upside here is that it's taking a shitload of money from those same rich assholes and distributing it to relatively normal aeronautical engineers and such (but mostly just to slightly-less rich assholes)

One problem with Concorde is JFK-LHR/CDG isn’t even that long of a flight. Now, something that could do JFK-NRT/ICN and all of China that would imply? That might have more takers because those 14+ hour flights are bad even in business class with a $10k bed.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

My personal "say what" from that article was that they were going to use "synthetic fuel".

My guess is JetA

OR Hydrazine and red fuming nitric acid

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

Nebakenezzer posted:

My personal "say what" from that article was that they were going to use "synthetic fuel".

My guess is JetA

OR Hydrazine and red fuming nitric acid

Well, Hydrazine and RFNA would indeed work for not emitting any carbon.... (at least directly)

Edit: MMH and UDMH, which is what's usually used do have carbons, though.

OddObserver fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jan 28, 2021

HookedOnChthonics
Dec 5, 2015

Profoundly dull


T-stoff unt C-stoff





VVV 'optimized the pilot's liquidity,' excuse you

HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Jan 28, 2021

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

oops we melted the pilot

ThisIsJohnWayne
Feb 23, 2007
Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!



Build a ramair compression intake and use air oxygen as oxidizer with your solid fuel of longchain dense hydrocarbon asphalt. It's cheap!

Launch booster could be made with very economical TriNitroToluene.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

shame on an IGA posted:

oops we melted the pilot

Listen, the magic word here is hypergolic. It's our killer app. Also what do you mean hi-test peroxide maxes out at 95%?

Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008

Midjack posted:

It was Sandwich Anarchist and he stopped the thread when the restaurant closed and laid everyone off several months ago. :smith:

Yeah, ended up leaving there to run another spot, doing well. Had the thread removed by an admin after there were some credible doxxing threats by chuds on the forums :shrug:

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Sandwich Anarchist posted:

Yeah, ended up leaving there to run another spot, doing well. Had the thread removed by an admin after there were some credible doxxing threats by chuds on the forums :shrug:

Well, in any event, I'm very glad to hear you're doing okay!

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Sandwich Anarchist posted:

Yeah, ended up leaving there to run another spot, doing well. Had the thread removed by an admin after there were some credible doxxing threats by chuds on the forums :shrug:

Glad to hear you’re doing okay and sorry to hear about the harassment.

EasilyConfused
Nov 21, 2009


one strong toad

Midjack posted:

Glad to hear you’re doing okay and sorry to hear about the harassment.

ThisIsJohnWayne
Feb 23, 2007
Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!



SAAB has gotten a leasing service contract
order (?) from Sweden & EU for two more firebombing Sir Tractors.

I made this post so I get to misspell lord Sir Tractor's name and post the mellow yellow picture



https://www.saab.com/newsroom/press-releases/2021/saab-receives-order-for-two-further-firefighting-aircraft

Warbird
May 23, 2012

America's Favorite Dumbass

Oh that sucks, sorry to hear that. Good to know you’re back on your feet somewhere else.

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013

ThisIsJohnWayne posted:

SAAB has gotten a leasing service contract
order (?) from Sweden & EU for two more firebombing Sir Tractors.

I made this post so I get to misspell lord Sir Tractor's name and post the mellow yellow picture



https://www.saab.com/newsroom/press-releases/2021/saab-receives-order-for-two-further-firefighting-aircraft

I love how that press release goes out of the way not to mention that Saab doesn't actually make these.

Noosphere
Aug 31, 2008

[[[error]]] Damn not found.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGF4ovuSrK0

Always good to remember how dangerous flying in the mountains can be.

Kia Soul Enthusias
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom
Toilet Rascal
Can you fly an Icon a5 (LSA) at night?

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Charles posted:

Can you fly an Icon a5 (LSA) at night?

Not with a sport aircraft license.

With a “real” license so long as the required equipment is there and working night VFR should be possible.

Kia Soul Enthusias
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom
Toilet Rascal

hobbesmaster posted:

Not with a sport aircraft license.

With a “real” license so long as the required equipment is there and working night VFR should be possible.

The tail number says LSA / acrobatic on a websearch. It's owned by an LLC so I don't think you can check on the pilot's license. It was twilight, maybe that is okay. :P It probably was full darkness by the time it got back to the airport.
It had a gear up landing last year 🤔

Warbird
May 23, 2012

America's Favorite Dumbass

I hope that was on the water. I’m a bit jealous; we only have regular floatplanes on the lake. I wish one of the rich assholes around here would get an A5. Love how it looks.

Kia Soul Enthusias
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom
Toilet Rascal

Warbird posted:

I hope that was on the water. I’m a bit jealous; we only have regular floatplanes on the lake. I wish one of the rich assholes around here would get an A5. Love how it looks.

It never landed in the water. There are a few in the Seattle area I think. One landed gear down in the water last year.

Edit: I misunderstood what you meant. The gear up landing was an incident, so on land.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Charles posted:

It never landed in the water. There are a few in the Seattle area I think. One landed gear down in the water last year.

Edit: I misunderstood what you meant. The gear up landing was an incident, so on land.

One of the flight training schools at Lunken has a demonstrator model, sadly I've not been lucky enough to see it.

Of course, when the infield almost inevitably floods in springtime they could try using it as a water runway.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
The Icon A5 seems like another aircraft that's doomed to have an undeserved poor reputation because it attracts morons like poo poo attracts flies.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



PT6A posted:

The Icon A5 seems like another aircraft that's doomed to have an undeserved poor reputation because it attracts morons like poo poo attracts flies.

They market it to people with zero flight experience so they deserve the reputation they get.

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005

PT6A posted:

The Icon A5 seems like another aircraft that's doomed to have an undeserved poor reputation because it attracts morons like poo poo attracts flies.

On one hand, there's some significant things Icon tries to do right, since the wing is designed to be difficult to stall or spin, there's a prominent AoA indicator, and an airframe parachute (although the FAA required that one), but on the other hand, it's marketed to people with enough disposable income that a $360,000 LSA which tops out at 95kts and can't fly in clouds isn't a terrible idea, so there's going to be more than a few morons buying them.

FBS
Apr 27, 2015

The real fun of living wisely is that you get to be smug about it.

Noosphere posted:

Always good to remember how dangerous flying in the mountains can be.

:hmmyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eFD_Wj6dhk

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull
Dynamic soaring RC gliders are true aeronautical insanity. The airframes take peak loads of something like 100G, and they're edging into transonic territory with straight wings.

Ardeem
Sep 16, 2010

There is no problem that cannot be solved through sufficient application of lasers and friendship.

Quite possibly the coolest thing to happen in Acton, Ca.

Jimmy Carter
Nov 3, 2005

THIS MOTHERDUCKER
FLIES IN STYLE
lol Icons are getting seriously hosed up every 4 months at this point.

My fave so far is the one where a guy bought one for himself another for his wife, they both took off, but he never bothered to check the fuel level, left it at 100% throttle the entire time, so besides seriously loving up the engine he ran out of fuel very quickly.

At this point we're probably going to see the first LSA that requires a type rating.

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull

Jimmy Carter posted:

lol Icons are getting seriously hosed up every 4 months at this point.

My fave so far is the one where a guy bought one for himself another for his wife, they both took off, but he never bothered to check the fuel level, left it at 100% throttle the entire time, so besides seriously loving up the engine he ran out of fuel very quickly.

I looked this accident up and your memory is exaggerating some things pretty badly.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/07/icon-a5-n83ba-accident-occurred-july-11_12.html

He and his wife had already completed a flight leg without problems. Both airplanes were refueled to 17 gal for the second leg, which the pilot's flight planning software predicted would use 13 gal. Even with the throttle at 100% for over half of the 2+ hour flight, he almost made it - he crashed 1.2 miles short of the runway. His wife landed normally at the destination airport with 1.4gal fuel remaining. Although the NTSB report doesn't say so, this suggests that either the pilot's fuel planning was deficient or his wife also spent excessive time at max throttle, just not as much as him.

But it wasn't that he never bothered to check fuel levels, and it wasn't super fast fuel exhaustion, and it doesn't sound like he had any immediate engine trouble. He just inexplicably left the throttle firewalled (or close to it) most of they way.

Also, according to this 2019 AOPA article, the pilot was 74 years old.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/september/23/icon-accidents

Which ties into the main point of the article: despite the common assumption that ICON A5 crashes are due to slick marketing selling them to youthful low-time pilots who get into trouble, so far the theme is experienced pilots making bad mistakes.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
The common denominator with the A5 is that it's sold to people for whom a conventional airplane like a Cessna is too boring or too uncool. These people are likely to engage in riskier behavior regardless of age and experience.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

BobHoward posted:

Also, according to this 2019 AOPA article, the pilot was 74 years old.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/september/23/icon-accidents

Which ties into the main point of the article: despite the common assumption that ICON A5 crashes are due to slick marketing selling them to youthful low-time pilots who get into trouble, so far the theme is experienced pilots making bad mistakes.

Note it does not say how much experience he had. Just because he was old doesn't mean he'd been flying his whole life, and speaking as an instructor: the people who get into flying for something to do in retirement are a pretty questionable bunch, far more so in fact than young pilots in my experience (many of whom are looking at it as a career).

Beyond that, super low-time pilots are a bit dangerous, but the "killing zone" (defined in an excellent book of the same name) is really more like 300-1000 hours, not a brand new PPL holder.

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

HAIL TO THE VICTORS!
https://apnews.com/f56833f73c7ecfa34a5ed5e6461669bc

quote:

BERLIN (AP) — A man has been arrested in Berlin on allegations he made radio contact with air traffic, including police helicopters, and gave fake flight orders while impersonating an aviation official, German police said Friday.

The 32-year-old, whose identity wasn’t released in line with German privacy laws, was arrested Thursday night in the capital’s eastern Koepenick district, police said.

Police were able to swoop in on his apartment after he made contact with a police helicopter that was dispatched to the neighborhood in the hope of flushing him out.

During a search of his home, police found two radios that transmitted on the frequencies needed to make contact with aircraft.

“For everyone who has been asking about our police helicopter operations in Koepenick, an unusual arrest,” Berlin police tweeted, with a link to more details.

The man is alleged to have made contact with pilots of passenger and transport aircraft, as well as state and federal police helicopters, over the past six months, giving “potentially dangerous” instructions and becoming increasingly professional with his communications.

No accidents or other incidents are known to have been caused by his actions, police said.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

This is actually a scenario that's worried me, because it's actually pretty trivial to pull off. I bought a two-way aviation radio as a handheld backup in case I ever had a complete failure (especially at night) and no one ever asked to see a radio operator's certificate or anything. It relies on a surprising amount of good faith; a bad actor could easily cause chaos.

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull

PT6A posted:

Note it does not say how much experience he had. Just because he was old doesn't mean he'd been flying his whole life, and speaking as an instructor: the people who get into flying for something to do in retirement are a pretty questionable bunch, far more so in fact than young pilots in my experience (many of whom are looking at it as a career).

Beyond that, super low-time pilots are a bit dangerous, but the "killing zone" (defined in an excellent book of the same name) is really more like 300-1000 hours, not a brand new PPL holder.

Enough time for overconfidence to develop, I'm guessing?

Does the book have anything to say about the risks of pilots in that experience zone switching to a new type? Getting too locked in to the handling and other operational characteristics of their first type seems to be a factor in a lot of pilot-error GA accidents I've read about.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

PT6A posted:

This is actually a scenario that's worried me, because it's actually pretty trivial to pull off. I bought a two-way aviation radio as a handheld backup in case I ever had a complete failure (especially at night) and no one ever asked to see a radio operator's certificate or anything. It relies on a surprising amount of good faith; a bad actor could easily cause chaos.

According to the instructors out here, there is a crank with a radio somewhere around Half Moon Bay who will yell at you on the local CTAF and demand your tail number if he thinks you're flying too low.

Nobody does anything because it's sporadic enough to just be an annoyance rather than a real hazard. But it is really surprising how much stuff in aviation just works on the honor system (and the vague threat of federal prison, I guess). The planes I fly aren't even locked

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

BobHoward posted:

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/september/23/icon-accidents

Which ties into the main point of the article: despite the common assumption that ICON A5 crashes are due to slick marketing selling them to youthful low-time pilots who get into trouble, so far the theme is experienced pilots making bad mistakes.

quote:

In fact, low-time sport pilots are yet to be involved in a single Icon accident. Instead, it’s high-time, experienced pilots—many with advanced ratings—who are at fault. Not once has a mechanical problem contributed to an Icon crash. Every one of them has been pilot error, according to NTSB and FAA reports.

What's considered low-time? Roy Hallyday had under 700 hours which doesn't sound like a lot to me.

The Real Amethyst
Apr 20, 2018

When no one was looking, Serval took forty Japari buns. She took 40 buns. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
Don't ask....


Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Phanatic posted:

What's considered low-time? Roy Hallyday had under 700 hours which doesn't sound like a lot to me.

a sport pilot license technically only requires 20 hours so

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Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares



:stonklol:

What is the background?

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