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Indiana_Krom posted:So I'm thinking the "roll" and "crawl" modes will be gone from the Model S in favor of always being in "hold" mode. I mean hold is the best and I use it for my Model 3, but without a shift stalk and if the car has a habit of automatically putting itself into gear, you wouldn't want it to be able to roll freely or worse crawl forward like an ICE vehicle with a torque converter does. Granted even the Model 3 automatically shifts to park when you get out, but I wouldn't trust it. (For it to automatically shift into park, any two of these three conditions must be met: drivers seat occupancy sensor, seat belt has to be unbuckled, driver door opens.) People had a poo poo-fit when BMW introduced their variation of the turn signal stack that basically always returned back to center when you flicked it. A short flick was a 3 blink signal and a longer flick kept it on until you flicked the other way made a turn. I really hate how Tesla is so openly antagonistic towards making cars easier and safer to operate beyond just using software to fill the gaps. Even if you have a self driving mode, the driver is the operator of last resort. It's like the complete opposite of the Germans who tilt mirrors down when you go in reverse so you can see the curb when you're parallel parking. My car parks it self, but it still has that feature.
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Jan 29, 2021 17:25
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Removing the gear selector and indicator stalk is a highly advanced case of Silicon Valley disruptor brain damage. Change is good for it’s own sake and you must constantly be making changes to stay relevant, even if those changes are obviously stupid. Sadly you can’t do A/B testing on a car so reverting your dumb changes isn’t quite so easy when it turns out that people actually want to be able to select their direction of progress and signal their intent to change direction.
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Jan 29, 2021 18:29
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sanchez posted:It’s a nice refresh overall, the bottom spec model s is a good deal for 80k but the gear shifter moving to the screen is madness. It will be in the right gear until it guesses wrong and you end up hitting something. WHAT.
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Jan 29, 2021 20:09
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Trust me. You don't want that steering wheel. I've driven a car with a similar 'custom' design and it was difficult to both turn and keep straight. It just doesn't work aside from looking 'cool'.
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Jan 29, 2021 20:15
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I think the back seat screen is too low, most cars have it at the headrest level. The steering wheel looks pants on head stupid. On the other hand I bet the accessory manufacturers will have a little attachment to remedy that within 30 days so it probably won't be as big of a deal as it seems. Either way though it doesn't solve any problems and arguably creates some so I don't know why they would even bother with it. The turning stalk is more disconcerting, I don't like Musk's tweet about "oh the car does it automatically and you can override it on the touch screen". That sounds like something that will work well 90% of the time and 10% of the time it will be potentially dangerous. I don't want to be hitting the touch screen while I'm trying to perform a K turn or something. It's also going to be pretty jarring for their target market on the S which is equity rich boomers. No one wants to think about what buttons to hit for turning indicators either, that's just dumb.
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Jan 29, 2021 20:20
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I thought Tesla Bjorn showed pics of a round wheel too (I was watching while falling asleep), but I don't see a way to order it. It's funny though, a day before it was revealed I was telling a family member the Model S still has an instrument cluster and mostly traditional controls.
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Jan 29, 2021 20:44
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The Gunslinger posted:I think the back seat screen is too low, most cars have it at the headrest level. There's a really good reason for that, having a horizon for reference can help with motion sickness. Looking down towards the floor while moving is uncomfortable for a lot of people, myself included.
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Jan 29, 2021 21:14
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Darchangel posted:WHAT. Of all the weird hosed up UI decisions Tesla makes, this is like the least egregious. Most stuff the "gear selector" is just a switch that sends a signal or a data word or whatever to the computer to say "driver has selected D". There's no reason you need a physical control to do that. A button that says D R P and maybe some other mode you've invented can just as easily be a touchscreen button as a physical switch.
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Jan 29, 2021 21:17
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I've always thought the N/P/R/D(B) little selector thing in my Leaf was really unnecessary D/B (low/high regen) should be a permanently selectable setting in the menu, and the others should be push buttons somewhere. I'm sure Teslas auto-park, but I'd imagine for any other backing operation having to fumble gently caress a touch screen would be annoying.
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Jan 29, 2021 21:35
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Just got a call from a local Ford dealership that they are getting a demo Mach-E in tomorrow. I am scheduled to take it for a test drive on Tuesday. Really kinda looking forward to seeing how it drives.
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Jan 29, 2021 21:50
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It's nice to have the gear (drive?) selector to hand without having to look at it in parking lots.
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Jan 29, 2021 21:51
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The gear selector is inside the left rear speaker cavity next to the emergency rear door release.
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Jan 29, 2021 21:54
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Orvin posted:Just got a call from a local Ford dealership that they are getting a demo Mach-E in tomorrow. I am scheduled to take it for a test drive on Tuesday. Really kinda looking forward to seeing how it drives. Yeah the two dealerships near me both have one in transit. Should be getting them any day and I’m hoping for a test drive.
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Jan 29, 2021 21:56
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Finger Prince posted:Of all the weird hosed up UI decisions Tesla makes, this is like the least egregious. Most stuff the "gear selector" is just a switch that sends a signal or a data word or whatever to the computer to say "driver has selected D". There's no reason you need a physical control to do that. A button that says D R P and maybe some other mode you've invented can just as easily be a touchscreen button as a physical switch. Buttons, fine, but I don't trust a goddamned touchscreen for a critical function like "go this way or that way or not at all". Elviscat posted:I've always thought the N/P/R/D(B) little selector thing in my Leaf was really unnecessary D/B (low/high regen) should be a permanently selectable setting in the menu, and the others should be push buttons somewhere. Exactly my point. bird with big dick posted:The gear selector is inside the left rear speaker cavity next to the emergency rear door release. 
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Jan 29, 2021 22:22
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Voice controlled shifting, coming soon!
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Jan 29, 2021 22:28
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Pictured: Literal murder
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Jan 29, 2021 22:30
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bird with big dick posted:The gear selector is inside the left rear speaker cavity next to the emergency rear door release. The emergency release has been disrupted and you will now need to use the touch screen to get out of the burning vehicle. Tesla sure does act like it's some weird Apple cargo cult at times.
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Jan 29, 2021 22:33
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Darchangel posted:Buttons, fine, but I don't trust a goddamned touchscreen for a critical function like "go this way or that way or not at all". Well, more importantly, the car should not be trying to intuit my intended direction and forcing me to override it, and, secondarily, that override should not be in the loving touchscreen. When you get in a car and turn it on it should behave the same way every single time if you do the same things every single time. That’s just a basic safety mechanism when dealing with 2 ton machinery.
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Jan 29, 2021 22:34
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Just wait until they back-port these features and turn current gear stalks into fart selectors.
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Jan 29, 2021 23:22
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Darchangel posted:Buttons, fine, but I don't trust a goddamned touchscreen for a critical function like "go this way or that way or not at all". you know the button is all hooked up to the same vehicle systems bus right
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Jan 29, 2021 23:35
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:you know the button is all hooked up to the same vehicle systems bus right You're missing the point. I understand that it's still activating an electrical circuit, but I trust a physical button more than a touch screen overlay. Particularly one that is more than 0 layers deep in a menu.
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Jan 29, 2021 23:46
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For the people that have these fancy 360°cameras that display everything you can't even see from your windows and mirrors on the giant screen on the console, does it make more sense to push the R button from the very screen that you're going to be checking your surroundings on, or fumbling around on the center console for a knob that you turn some soft click or momentary contact to the right or left that does the same thing?
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Jan 29, 2021 23:50
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Darchangel posted:Buttons, fine, but I don't trust a goddamned touchscreen for a critical function like "go this way or that way or not at all". Touchscreen failure is probably the least of the concerns. In reality as long as the screen itself is not cracked its reliable. The place I work has touch devices devices running heavy machinery in disgusting enviroments - about the only thing we really need to make sure of is to use rugged cases to ensure the screens arent broken when dropped. They are not purpose built either. I do personally hate touch interfaces in cars but the reliability of them isnt my issue. edit : Ahhh you were querying the UI. Well to be honest I dont think it's a real issue for something like forward / reverse / park CAT INTERCEPTOR fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Jan 29, 2021 |
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Jan 29, 2021 23:51
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Darchangel posted:You're missing the point. Would you balk at turning the car on from a touchscreen versus a pushbutton start? Or do you still need a key and ignition lock?
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Jan 29, 2021 23:52
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Finger Prince posted:For the people that have these fancy 360°cameras that display everything you can't even see from your windows and mirrors on the giant screen on the console, does it make more sense to push the R button from the very screen that you're going to be checking your surroundings on, or fumbling around on the center console for a knob that you turn some soft click or momentary contact to the right or left that does the same thing? Who fumbles for the gear lever? It should be muscle memory. And if I'm reaching for the screen then I'm blocking it with my hand
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Jan 29, 2021 23:53
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Which will happen first, being able to say “engage warp drive” or “punch it chewie!” to change to drive mode in a tesla?
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Jan 29, 2021 23:53
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Like, touchscreens get a lot of justifiable flak in cars, but for a function you touch once, maybe twice in a journey, before even driving away... It's kind of a non issue.
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Jan 29, 2021 23:54
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Touchscreen failure is probably the least of the concerns. In reality as long as the screen itself is not cracked its reliable. The place I work has touch devices devices running heavy machinery in disgusting enviroments - about the only thing we really need to make sure of is to use rugged cases to ensure the screens arent broken when dropped. They are not purpose built either. My concern is that the touchscreen is in the middle of the dashboard and finding the right spot to touch is not intuitive. A stalk or a button you can flick as you get ready to turn the wheel, while reaching over to the touchscreen requires you to take your hand off the wheel and your eye off the road.
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Jan 29, 2021 23:55
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kronix posted:People had a poo poo-fit when BMW introduced their variation of the turn signal stack that basically always returned back to center when you flicked it. A short flick was a 3 blink signal and a longer flick kept it on until you flicked the other way made a turn. I really hate how Tesla is so openly antagonistic towards making cars easier and safer to operate beyond just using software to fill the gaps. Even if you have a self driving mode, the driver is the operator of last resort. Tesla's follow the BMW short/long flick for turn signals. They also tilt the mirrors down when you go in reverse. With that said getting rid of the gear selector is crazy. The computer will do a lovely job of knowing. I like my Tesla but the automatic wipers are awful and not sensitive enough. I find myself having to override them (using the touch screen) when it's raining especially at night. Another example of Tesla half baked computer sensing implementation is the auto parking function. I don't have it but I've read a lot of people say it does a really good job of curbing your wheels.
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Jan 30, 2021 00:04
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Deteriorata posted:My concern is that the touchscreen is in the middle of the dashboard and finding the right spot to touch is not intuitive. A stalk or a button you can flick as you get ready to turn the wheel, while reaching over to the touchscreen requires you to take your hand off the wheel and your eye off the road. Wait what part of touch interfaces are we discussing.....I'm confused? Indicators, reliability or replacing P/D/R switch with touch? Or all three? Indicators - stupid real stupid agreed Reliability - not a concern P/D/R - prolly not a huge UI issue, just different. Worth having a look at given a bunch of cars arent using traditional selector levers anymore anyway
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Jan 30, 2021 00:04
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Wait what part of touch interfaces are we discussing.....I'm confused? Indicators, reliability or replacing P/D/R switch with touch? Or all three? We've been discussing the indicators being on the touchscreen. Ergonomically, it's a dumb place to put them and a distraction when driving. People will just not use them.
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Jan 30, 2021 00:10
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bird with big dick posted:Yeah the two dealerships near me both have one in transit. Should be getting them any day and I’m hoping for a test drive. I called a dealership last week that supposedly had 3 in stock and like 5 more in transit. They said they did not have any for test drive, and it would probably be next month before they would have a demo vehicle. I am guessing those early vehicles were either pre-orders, or not really in stock.
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Jan 30, 2021 00:19
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Finger Prince posted:Like, touchscreens get a lot of justifiable flak in cars, but for a function you touch once, maybe twice in a journey, before even driving away... It's kind of a non issue. Does it in any way improve on the myriad other methods for selecting your drive modes beyond making it easier for a Tesla to cut costs by cramming yet more functions into the IPad?
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Jan 30, 2021 00:27
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Does it in any way improve on the myriad other methods for selecting your drive modes beyond making it easier for a Tesla to cut costs by cramming yet more functions into the IPad? No, but neither does a twisty knob next to the cupholder improve on a little dong next to the steering wheel.
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Jan 30, 2021 00:45
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Wait what part of touch interfaces are we discussing.....I'm confused? Indicators, reliability or replacing P/D/R switch with touch? Or all three? I have to back at least once, often twice to get out of my parking spot, having to dig through a touchscreen menu to select R would get old fast.
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Jan 30, 2021 00:51
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Finger Prince posted:No, but neither does a twisty knob next to the cupholder improve on a little dong next to the steering wheel. You could make an argument, ergonomically, for either. I don’t think there’s any way you can make the argument that a context dependent touchscreen function is not ergonomically worse, 100% of the time, than a knob or stalk that falls readily to hand. And again, the touchscreen thing is dumb but mostly an annoyance, the idea that the car is going to SELECT A GEAR FOR ME based on what it thinks I want is extremely idiotic and unsafe.
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Jan 30, 2021 01:10
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I'm totally in favor of reduced buttons and poo poo for EV "gearchange" interfaces - in reality it's a button that says park/go forward/go backward. There is no reason you would ever want to access that while moving. Take out a lead and some wire and a button and free up some additional interior space. Now, lane change indicators? that's real bad. I also don't think the car is going to select a gear for you - it's a fuckin EV, it doesn't have gears to select. The car is going to predict which way you are wanting to turn or whatever and illuminate the indicator. I can see how this could possibly kind of sort of work based on navigation routes but I don't know how this is going to work for freeway lane changes - though I suppose the vision is that freeway driving will be using some form of autonomy so the driver will never try to change lanes.
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Jan 30, 2021 01:32
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Finger Prince posted:No, but neither does a twisty knob next to the cupholder improve on a little dong next to the steering wheel. The exception is the BMW i3 shifter which is more of a knob.
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Jan 30, 2021 01:38
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Finger Prince posted:Would you balk at turning the car on from a touchscreen versus a pushbutton start? Or do you still need a key and ignition lock? Would mainly depend on how they implement it. A giant Eye Of Sauron presented when I get in and shut the door would be fine. Mind you, I’m poor and have yet to experience keyless anything. I’m hardly a Luddite, but I’m not a fan of “just because we could.” Unless that gear selector is persistent on the screen, I don’t care for it, and I definitely don’t want the car guessing about which direction I want to go. Moot point really, since I’ll likely never be able to afford a Model S. (the “punch it Chewie” voice command I can get behind. Or “let’s roll”. As long as it’s reliable...)
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Jan 30, 2021 01:42
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Navigate on Autopilot suggests lane changes on the interstate that I rarely want to make. If it's controlling the blinkers, you'll be constantly fighting it. Also, when all the MCU1s crap out the cars are usually still driveable, but maybe without HVAC. I bet anyone that had an MCU1 die on them is thinking HARD before getting a Tesla that put MORE of the essential bits into the center screen.
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Jan 30, 2021 01:42
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