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You're not going to get another Saryn or Mesa because there is more of a focus now on specifically not creating another Saryn or Mesa. The downside of being very focused and quickly nerfing is that there's no more crazy outliers. You don't get as many opportunities for niche cases and weird interactions. It makes for a much more bland experience when everything is so hyper-focused on ~balance~ that nothing can stand out as crazy. The service game maxim that nerfs are near the top of the priority list and buffs are near the bottom doesn't help, either. It's great when you get a Protea, but it's more likely that you'll get a Xaku.
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Jan 29, 2021 03:01
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Gonkish posted:DE when there's meme-y poo poo to add to the game: "We will spend months perfecting this useless bullshit." im glad of it
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Jan 29, 2021 03:01
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Xaku is really, really strong. Once you hit 200% Strength, you have an AOE 100% defense strip, 14 aimbotting level-scaled guns that do damage that nothing resists, and a 40-some second timer freeze on both mixed with that dodge chance. Add an extra 100% extra Void damage for anything you're shooting at. Just an absolutely perfect sortie and Steel Path frame. I've been using this build and have zero complaints. https://overframe.gg/build/74158/xaku/xaku-dodgemaster-friendsmaker-weapondealer/
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Jan 29, 2021 06:23
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Grendel and Xaku both have infinitely scaling damage and ways to negate enemy defence scaling they are in no way bad frames they are instead heavily slept on.
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Jan 29, 2021 08:41
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Echophonic posted:Xaku is really, really strong. Once you hit 200% Strength, you have an AOE 100% defense strip, 14 aimbotting level-scaled guns that do damage that nothing resists, and a 40-some second timer freeze on both mixed with that dodge chance. Also they're a loving cool spooky scary skeleton  but you wouldn't believe how many stupid "not mesa or saryn or 99%dr godmode, real letdown, pass" takes you see for frames like that.
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Jan 29, 2021 11:10
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Mesa and Saryn are very good, but they're not oppressively strong either. Mesa's damage is high, it plays the game for you, but it's not infinitely scaling. Saryn has infinite scaling, but it takes time to scale up, and once it gets high enough, it starts "slipping", where enemies die before you can spread it, meaning you instantly lose spore DPS and you need to recast it. It's kind of annoying, but I guess it can be thought off as a soft-cap.
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Jan 29, 2021 11:32
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I'm at work right now, but I have a Xaku build that basically dumps all efficiency in order to turn them into a screaming skeletal murdergod and I love it. Xaku is still as janky as they come, but it's fun jank. The only problem is that you need every tool at your disposal to keep your energy high enough to keep Untime up, because if it runs out you're a sitting semi-skeletal duck.
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Jan 29, 2021 15:10
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an eternal constant is that no matter what a frame does people are going to take 5 minutes to try some hackneyed build the moment it's released, find out it doesn't immediately blow up everything within 3 miles in a mission, and then never touch it again after leveling it while loudly saying that it's garbage no matter how many insanely good builds are made for it by people who actually attempted to give it a chance
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Jan 29, 2021 15:28
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Johnny Joestar posted:an eternal constant is that no matter what a frame does people are going to take 5 minutes to try some hackneyed build the moment it's released, find out it doesn't immediately blow up everything within 3 miles in a mission, and then never touch it again after leveling it while loudly saying that it's garbage no matter how many insanely good builds are made for it by people who actually attempted to give it a chance remember when people insisted khora was bad for like a year? lol
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Jan 29, 2021 15:40
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Echophonic posted:Xaku is really, really strong. Once you hit 200% Strength, you have an AOE 100% defense strip, 14 aimbotting level-scaled guns that do damage that nothing resists, and a 40-some second timer freeze on both mixed with that dodge chance. Add an extra 100% extra Void damage for anything you're shooting at. Just an absolutely perfect sortie and Steel Path frame. I do love insane builds, but I'm still sticking with Valkyr (when I play) because nothing feels quite as good as WHARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGARBLing my way through an entire map and just Not Dying.
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Jan 29, 2021 19:51
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Devstream is on, and the new intro is adorable 
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Jan 29, 2021 20:02
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 Wings are an ephemera, non-seasonal, can be colored, fade during combat   https://www.warframe.com/2020stats new page you can use to be a hipster and use unpopular frames/weapons Malloc Voidstar fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Jan 29, 2021 |
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Jan 29, 2021 20:58
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 Domestic Drone Alert I repeat the Gift of the Lotus Alert is a Domestic Drone
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Jan 29, 2021 21:17
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temple posted:
Thank you!
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Jan 29, 2021 21:20
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Johnny Joestar posted:an eternal constant is that no matter what a frame does people are going to take 5 minutes to try some hackneyed build the moment it's released, find out it doesn't immediately blow up everything within 3 miles in a mission, and then never touch it again after leveling it while loudly saying that it's garbage no matter how many insanely good builds are made for it by people who actually attempted to give it a chance I sincerely hope people don't figure out what an omnicidial murder machine Baruuk is. Or Hildryn's ability to just set fire to absolutely everything all the time forever.
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Jan 29, 2021 21:52
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Malloc Voidstar posted:https://www.warframe.com/2020stats I legitimately felt a little called out because the MR30 bracket is the home of all the dumb project weapons I got cheap Rivens for and love in dark red.
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Jan 29, 2021 23:11
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Zephyr chat from dev stream Still the best frame fight me you won't Not ready  Landing craft deluxe Changing tailwind from movement to suspend in air, increasing dive bomb damage (idk sus) Changing air burst to be a radial suck Reducing tornados to 3, increasing suction, more damage Adding crit while aerial to passive Non zephyr stuff Dry dock will be in 2nd floor of relays Railjack is getting more attention, adding new missions that integrate rj. Orphix Venom will be a railjack mission type. Apologized for rj twice in 1 stream. Rebalancing intrinsics, making some baseline, adding mechs to rj (inside ships), adding mech intrinsics
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Jan 29, 2021 23:25
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temple posted:Changing tailwind from movement to suspend in air, increasing dive bomb damage (idk sus) good but what it really needs is more range. like how the gently caress are you supposed to aim it from that high up also you forgot the ui deluxe
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Jan 29, 2021 23:34
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Zephyr changes sound good, but let's wait for those numbers. Also, Primed Pandero and Tenora might actually make me use those guns. I never found either really effective.
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Jan 30, 2021 00:27
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The Tenora is a loving beast. Check out Leyzar's build and see how it just melts things. It's a good workhorse rifle.
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Jan 30, 2021 00:42
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Johnny Joestar posted:an eternal constant is that no matter what a frame does people are going to take 5 minutes to try some hackneyed build the moment it's released, find out it doesn't immediately blow up everything within 3 miles in a mission, and then never touch it again after leveling it while loudly saying that it's garbage no matter how many insanely good builds are made for it by people who actually attempted to give it a chance The problem is that there are frames (Mesa) that don't require any setup to murderize everything. So 75% of the time I'm going to saryn/mesa/baruuk murderize my way through maps with one button. When I feel like playing the game I'll spend the time to cycle all my abilities and set up some terribly complex Lavos thing or something else.
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Jan 30, 2021 00:54
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temple posted:Reducing tornados to 3, increasing suction, more damage come to think of it i wonder how this affects the tornadoes with the augment. they dont have any suction
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Jan 30, 2021 02:45
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Dev stream was good. Also made me laugh that we've been seeing both Wraith and that Zephyr deluxe for years now and we're getting them mostly or exactly at the same time.
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Jan 30, 2021 03:54
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Was great to see they still have the Power-saw weapon in development hell. Zephyr Deluxe looks like Jehuty from Zone of the Enders, the Deluxe Landing Craft looks like something from Wipeout. TheMostFrench fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Jan 30, 2021 |
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Jan 30, 2021 05:05
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Guilty posted:The problem is that there are frames (Mesa) that don't require any setup to murderize everything. So 75% of the time I'm going to saryn/mesa/baruuk murderize my way through maps with one button. When I feel like playing the game I'll spend the time to cycle all my abilities and set up some terribly complex Lavos thing or something else. And that's all I see from frames like Octavia, Harrow, Grendel, Xaku, Lavos... and this new one they demoed today, even. Frustrating, annoying, fiddly bullshit. Narrow use cases. Builds requiring opposed stats. "Defense" that requires you to cast a power on every enemy in every direction. Artificially complex gameplay, in the name of power synergy. Power synergy is a fine goal in of itself, but when they use it as a crutch to making powers good at all, it makes the entire package useless. It's not that frames like Mesa are flawless. (Not just her other two powers, but even Shatter Shield is kind of rear end.) It's just that they're particularly well suited to the type of gameplay that WF presents in most mission types, while so many other frames make me wonder what game the devs were playing. There's also cases where they tried to make each power have its own on-demand role, but still fell completely flat, like Inaros. It's not all of the new frames. Sometimes they nail it. Gauss, for instance, has a good mix of straightforward effectiveness and interesting mechanics. His 1 and 3 aren't outstandingly useful, and there is a hole in his kinetic plating thing, but it's pretty small one. This could all be read as either a case against Mesa, Saryn, and Ember's existence; maybe, but honestly, even if their room-blasting powers didn't exist as they do now, I'd be the guy playing defense-happy weapon platform frames with simple powers. Wukong has been my favorite since his rework, and before that it was Saryn and Rhino. Maybe it's that I'm a shittastic player and can only comprehend use cases for PRES BUTAN style powers. And maybe I do suck; I'm past 40 now, I'm not as good as I used to be, and my aim in FPS games never was worth a drat... but as every post about pubbies in this thread suggests, we should probably assume most players are that bad and fiddly powers won't appeal to them either. Coldbird fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Jan 30, 2021 |
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Jan 30, 2021 05:13
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I want to recognize that this is absolutely a pithy, rear end in a top hat response when you wrote an entire, good post about it but Octavia is most certainly not any of those things and is one of the best all around do anything frames in the game. That said I do generally agree with you that a lot of the frames from the past few years are "neat but not great" and many of them are a bit of a pain to work with in some ways. That said, we kind of already have every base in the game covered. We have tremendous defense frames, we have immensely survivable frames, hyper killframes and basically any kind of gameplay you can (currently) find in Warframe has a frame that can absolutely annihilate any sense of challenge it has. It's alright if not every frame is incredible or perfect at everything, there can be weird, quirky frames and you don't have to like all of them. It's gonna keep happening more as the game gets even older still and more and more obvious and semi-obvious warframe powers have been used.
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Jan 30, 2021 05:27
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de kind of went simple early on and from there you can pretty much only go in the direction of more complicated and involved, which is fine by me. for a game that can be as braindead easy as warframe i kind of want something that actually involves me giving a poo poo. like, frost shielding an objective is one of the most rock-solid tactics in the game and it's hard to actively 'beat' that, but i find frost boring as hell to play unless i'm doing weird poo poo with spamming the 4.
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Jan 30, 2021 06:19
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yeah man Octavia absolutely is an S-tier frame too bad her prime looks like poo poo
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Jan 30, 2021 06:24
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Orv posted:That said I do generally agree with you that a lot of the frames from the past few years are "neat but not great" and many of them are a bit of a pain to work with in some ways. Excepting Grendel, and maybe Lavos (haven't touched him), I think everything released so far is pretty usable. Protea is great, but she also is so close to Mesa that this isn't surprising. I think a lot of it just comes down to designers designing and then maybe getting one round of feedback->rework before moving on. Maybe it looks cool to combo four abilities, probably including a press-or-hold cycler because those are great, in a demo but in the actual game the enemies are already dead.
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Jan 30, 2021 07:48
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loving lich stole my roomba.
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Jan 30, 2021 07:57
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chumbler posted:loving lich stole my roomba. Oh my god  He took you to the cleaners!
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Jan 30, 2021 08:17
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How early can you get lavos now, he's probably better when you're a newbie with no zenurik and no operator healing
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Jan 30, 2021 08:32
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slow_twitch posted:yeah man Octavia absolutely is an S-tier frame Get the Maestra skin. It really whips the llama's rear end.
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Jan 30, 2021 09:20
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Malloc Voidstar posted:https://www.warframe.com/2020stats  Phew. Don't have to worry about the riven going anywhere anytime soon.  Aww. This is just sad. 
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Jan 30, 2021 09:21
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Quill posted:Zephyr changes sound good, but let's wait for those numbers. OH gently caress YES. My Pandero riven is ready for Pandero Prime. Too ready for this 
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Jan 30, 2021 09:25
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People don't know about vile acceleration. the recoil is the worst part of those guns
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Jan 30, 2021 09:25
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Coldbird posted:Something like this is my problem with so many of the newer frames. I follow a real simple approach to modding, configuring, choosing talents/powers/trees/whatever in any game; it goes something like 'power that isn't there when you need it, isn't power'. I look at, say, Lavos, and sure - you can get significant numbers out of him. There's plenty of builds and theorycraft already out there, I'm sure - but none of them are performance on demand like a lot of the older frames have. So many of the new frames require this big complex setup, with multiple powers that need to go off in a row, and every step in that sequence requires a commitment. Every threshold of difficulty you go up - whether it's picking the mission itself, or bumping into an eximus heavy gunner in that mission, or G3 showing up or whatever - every extra little bump in difficulty means you're that much less likely to see that sequence go off. Every little fiddly bullshit step they add to a new frame's gameplay means that frame is that much less effective every time the difficulty steps up. I see your criticism of recent warframes demanding more complex building and min-maxing to use effectively... and I see the exact opposite dynamic in play. If anything, it's older frames that demand min-maxing. For instance, take Volt, range doesn't work on its 3, and only benefits your allies when you use your 1 and 2. So a min-maxed Volt build can only really utilize a fraction of his toolkit at a time. Or take Rhino or Mirage or Chroma, who again don't shine unless you min-max a few stats to the detriment of some of your abilities. Meanwhile, newer frames can be built in a more balanced fashion and can utilize more of their toolkit at once. Full utilization is only a benefit, they're hardly mandatory for use. And these newer frames often have more defensive mechanics from the get go. For instance, Protea is immortal as long as you keep refreshing her shield satellites. Lavos and Grendel are inherently bulky. Wisp and Khora have fair bulk and have ways to simply not get hit. Gauss and Baruuk and Gara have huge damage reductions. Hildryn and Harrow tap a button and you both debuff foes and refresh your shields.
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Jan 30, 2021 10:27
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Coldbird posted:And that's all I see from frames like Octavia, Harrow, Grendel, Xaku, Lavos... and this new one they demoed today, even. Frustrating, annoying, fiddly bullshit. Thank you for being a part of the reason why the most incredibly busted (and for me, fun) powerhouses in the game will never get on DE's radar enough to be nerfed. That's not even sarcasm.all snark aside, there's enough "make 1 build, hit 1 button over and over to kill everything" chillout options in the game to no worry about them adding a few frames with more intricate and engaging playstyles. I've certainly played both kinds for thousands of hours depending on mood. The game is completely fine with either existing (as long as it doesn't become a prevalent ahk script afk-bot situation) and serving both. RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Jan 30, 2021 |
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Jan 30, 2021 10:43
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some people want a really simple kit and to stop thinking about having to do anything more complex with it, and some people want to figure out how to make a seemingly less-immediately-optimal setup work with all the tools the game provides to do so both are fine ways to play the game (do whatever you enjoy the most) but it's really not a bad thing that you can choose to go down either path
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Jan 30, 2021 14:27
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I've sworn off all live-service games but Octavia Prime is so goddamn tempting...
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