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how to pronounce "ø", a guide for Americans 1. say "bird" 2. now say just the vowel sound 3. close enough
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Feb 2, 2021 15:28
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how to pronounce "ø", a guide for Americans 1. say "ö" 
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Feb 2, 2021 15:34
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Nenonen posted:Small communities separated by great distances, and only davvisamegiella counts in the thousands. The others are in the hundreds or dozens. In Swedish, vowel length is indicated by doubling the following consonant (which will incidentally be long for phonological reasons) of short vowels, and failing that not at all. In Finnish, vowel length is indicated by doubling the vowel for long vowels. Thus, ää will be unlikely to occur in Swedish (could happen in composite nouns I guess), but it's super common in Finnish. Also å is literally called "Swedish O" in Finnish, so it's not really a full member of the alphabet in my headcannon. Edit: it has been proposed to introduce ö to Danish in addition to ø, to be able to distinguish dør (dies, verb) from dør/dör (door, noun). BonHair has a new favorite as of 15:45 on Feb 2, 2021 |
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Feb 2, 2021 15:43
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jeebus bob posted:how to pronounce "ø", a guide for Americans No, it isn't.
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Feb 2, 2021 16:58
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If the European language smuggery doesn't stop this instant, I swear to god I'll post the video of Germans trying to say "squirrel".
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Feb 2, 2021 17:39
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BonHair posted:Edit: it has been proposed to introduce ö to Danish in addition to ø, to be able to distinguish dør (dies, verb) from dør/dör (door, noun). A very Kamelåså move.
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Feb 2, 2021 17:43
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jeebus bob posted:how to pronounce "ø", a guide for Americans If you do that with northen english you get something a lot closer to ä  bääärd.
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Feb 2, 2021 17:45
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Vowel sounds are hard for people (english speakers) who just do a formless grunt (schwa) 60 % of the time.
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Feb 2, 2021 18:53
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The sequence of faintly modulated grunts is the most elegant and efficient form of language.
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Feb 2, 2021 18:56
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BonHair posted:In Swedish, vowel length is indicated by doubling the following consonant (which will incidentally be long for phonological reasons) of short vowels, and failing that not at all. In Finnish, vowel length is indicated by doubling the vowel for long vowels. Thus, ää will be unlikely to occur in Swedish (could happen in composite nouns I guess), but it's super common in Finnish. Yea, this is the confusing part to me. It's not exactly about the alphabet nor about the sounds, because 'ää' is not an alphabet but 'å' is not a sound (just like c,f, w, x or z are not featured in any Finnish word despite being part of the alphabet for compatibility purposes).
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Feb 2, 2021 19:04
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IYKK posted:Vowel sounds are hard for people (english speakers) who just do a formless grunt (schwa) 60 % of the time. Describing vowel sounds in English is hard because English has like twenty vowels described with five letters.
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Feb 2, 2021 19:08
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Nenonen posted:Yea, this is the confusing part to me. It's not exactly about the alphabet nor about the sounds, because 'ää' is not an alphabet but 'å' is not a sound (just like c,f, w, x or z are not featured in any Finnish word despite being part of the alphabet for compatibility purposes). It seems like it's purely about the official alphabet and the orthographic conventions on using it. Sound doesn't influence the chart except by it's (varying) influence on the orthographies. As a tool for identifying am the language of a text, it makes some sense. Of course, it's super unlikely that you'll find an å in a Finnish text, since it's used primarily for Swedish (city) names like Åbo/Turku. But nominally, å and ää occur in Finnish, and ää doesn't occur in Swedish, where å is common.
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Feb 2, 2021 20:27
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BonHair posted:Edit: it has been proposed to introduce ö to Danish in addition to ø, to be able to distinguish dør (dies, verb) from dør/dör (door, noun). pfft, english gets along fine with multiple words being spelled the same way
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Feb 2, 2021 22:30
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Dearest creature in creation, Studying English pronunciation, I will teach you in my verse Sounds like corpse, corps, horse and worse...
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Feb 2, 2021 22:55
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I quite like that poem because either the pronunciations have drifted or you need a quite specific english accent for all of it to make sense.
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Feb 2, 2021 23:01
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OwlFancier posted:I quite like that poem because either the pronunciations have drifted or you need a quite specific english accent for all of it to make sense. There is a whole thing in english about how vowel sounds shifted over time so generally the way you are supposed to pronounce a word depends on how old that word is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift
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Feb 2, 2021 23:12
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Sure, but what I mean is that literally in the last 100 years that poem doesn't work, so either it demonstrates that there isn't even a consistent pronunciation across England or it's out of date. eg. actual/victual are pronounced the same, though I assume the very upper class elocution the author is writing in would pronounce it more like vict-you-al rather than vic-chew-al Also pretty sure made and bade are pronounced the same and if they aren't it definitely doens't rhyme with plaid. OwlFancier has a new favorite as of 23:31 on Feb 2, 2021 |
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Feb 2, 2021 23:18
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Most languages with an alphabet actually update their spelling when a word pronunciation changes. English is the only language I know that basically stopped doing that many centuries ago, which is why so many words have the pronunciation shifted much further from the spelling than you'd expect.
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Feb 2, 2021 23:18
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OwlFancier posted:Sure, but what I mean is that literally in the last 100 years that poem doesn't work, so either it demonstrates that there isn't even a consistent pronunciation across England or it's out of date. I rhyme made and bade (insofar as I say bade at all), but I say ack-chul and vic-chew-al
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Feb 2, 2021 23:37
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OwlFancier posted:The sequence of faintly modulated grunts is the most elegant and efficient form of language.
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Feb 2, 2021 23:39
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The poem implies that "victual" rhymes with "little," which is also the pronunciation Google recommends for it.
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Feb 2, 2021 23:46
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Kantesu posted:The poem implies that "victual" rhymes with "little," which is also the pronunciation Google recommends for it. The gently caress? That's like saying that cannot rhymes with can't. Like yes they mean the same thing and one is derived from the other but they're different words. loving google's off its tits.
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Feb 2, 2021 23:49
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Merriam-Webster and Wiktionary both agree. We are talking about the language that came up with Featherstonehaugh and Cholmondeley here.
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Feb 2, 2021 23:53
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I'm pretty sure the specific accent it's aimed at is a kind of middle class, home counties accent. It works almost perfectly for me, and most of the "misses" are words I'd just never ever use anyway, but I can see how immediately it would fall apart under exposure to even my posher neighbours I had growing up, let alone anything else.
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Feb 2, 2021 23:56
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redleader posted:pfft, english gets along fine with multiple words being spelled the same way  Also the same word spelled multiple ways!
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Feb 3, 2021 00:00
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OwlFancier posted:The gently caress? That's like saying that cannot rhymes with can't. You read it one way and heard it the other and assumed they were two different words, but they aren't. The word you pronounce "vittles" is spelled V-I-C-T-U-A-L-S
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Feb 3, 2021 00:48
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Yeah it's like boatswain. You spell it boatswain but it's only ever pronounced bosun.
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Feb 3, 2021 00:56
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flavor.flv posted:You read it one way and heard it the other and assumed they were two different words, but they aren't. The word you pronounce "vittles" is spelled V-I-C-T-U-A-L-S No I've read the word vittles multiple times, because it's how you spell the corruption of the word "victuals" Dictionaries are all lying everybody betray me I'm fed up with this language. I'm going to eat my vittles and cry. OwlFancier has a new favorite as of 01:01 on Feb 3, 2021 |
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Feb 3, 2021 00:59
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Memento posted:Yeah it's like boatswain. You spell it boatswain but it's only ever pronounced bosun. On the subject of nautical terms, I like how many apostrophes are in fo'c's'le, which is the only way people say "forecastle"
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Feb 3, 2021 01:01
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Assistant Manager Devil posted:
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Feb 3, 2021 01:12
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Assistant Manager Devil posted:
I’ll have the ghoti with a side of ghoughphtheightteeau chips!
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Feb 3, 2021 01:24
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Memento posted:Yeah it's like boatswain. You spell it boatswain but it's only ever pronounced bosun. Today I learned
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Feb 3, 2021 02:57
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flavor.flv posted:You read it one way and heard it the other and assumed they were two different words, but they aren't. The word you pronounce "vittles" is spelled V-I-C-T-U-A-L-S No it isn't   This is the only proof I have or need.
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Feb 3, 2021 03:09
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OwlFancier posted:No I've read the word vittles multiple times, because it's how you spell the corruption of the word "victuals" *"eat my Victuals and cry"
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Feb 3, 2021 03:15
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Karia posted:No it isn't dont the moles in that series literally call them vittles
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Feb 3, 2021 03:16
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Ignite Memories posted:dont the moles in that series literally call them vittles Iirc literally every character calls them vittles. I know it wasn't just the moles because as a child I hated reading mole-speak so I always skipped over every single mole character's dialogue.
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Feb 3, 2021 03:29
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Don Gato posted:Iirc literally every character calls them vittles. I know it wasn't just the moles because as a child I hated reading mole-speak so I always skipped over every single mole character's dialogue. The moles just want to eat zoup 'n cruster.
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Feb 3, 2021 03:41
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vittles:victuals::sez:says
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Feb 3, 2021 03:41
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Don Gato posted:Iirc literally every character calls them vittles. I know it wasn't just the moles because as a child I hated reading mole-speak so I always skipped over every single mole character's dialogue. My dad read it aloud to me and for like 2 or 3 books i thought they were saying complete nonsense, then I started reading them for myself and I could understand it completely
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Feb 3, 2021 03:47
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Assistant Manager Devil posted:Today I learned  This is one of those words where I've seen it written, and heard it spoken, but never in such a way where I would have been able to form a contextual link between the two words. English has so many of those weird semi-obscure words where you are fairly likely to encounter them at least a few times in your life, but not really enough times to make that connection.
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Feb 3, 2021 04:18
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