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Misija: “I hate Bozja and love the Empire. I turned the Blades of Gunnhildr into horrifying abominations” Stanik: “I bet there’s still good in you” Misija: “gently caress you”
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Feb 2, 2021 19:39
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thetoughestbean posted:Misija: “I hate Bozja and love the Empire. I turned the Blades of Gunnhildr into horrifying abominations” I admit I do really like that the ending of the whole thing with her is that hrothgar's comment of essentially 'I understand why she did it, but she doesn't get mercy because of it'. Matsuno's good at war stories, that single little speech is better than Yotsuyu's whole arc. I also really like that little moment after the boss fight with her and Gunnhildr. Very strong.
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Feb 2, 2021 23:30
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Honestly, the characterization in all of the Bozja stuff is surprisingly strong for being told in so many little fragments. Misija runs along the same vein as Fordola and Yotsuyu, but she hits altogether differently: she's still motivated in part by vengeance, but she also has deeply-held political convictions that inform her decisions. She just doesn't see the inequality and oppression that marred old Bozja vanishing, no matter how well-intentioned Bajsaljan might be, and thinks that tearing it all down and starting over with Gabranth's new nation is the only way to assure that her past doesn't become someone else's future. It's an entirely understandable motivation. Mikoto's sympathies towards Misija also make a lot more sense now that I know about her past with Moenbryda. I think she sees a lot of her old friend in Misija, which is both why the betrayal seemed to sting so much more than it ought to have considering how little time they've spent together, and why Mikoto seems so intent on not killing the woman who betrayed her, kidnapped her, and stole a portion of her Echo. Vermain fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Feb 3, 2021 |
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Feb 3, 2021 00:41
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Mikoto is very amusing to me because on paper she looks like a character from a fanfiction. She’s a young Archon who just so happens to have had a Scion as a mentor, she’s got a working relationship with Cid (and I think she’s implied to have feelings for him?) she’s got the Echo except it’s a special kind that lets her see into the future, and she has a twin that’s the polar opposite of her (that I am convinced is one of Matsuno’s alts and a way for him to pit his OC in the game) except she constantly looks like a hit puppy because life somehow keeps finding new and interesting ways to poo poo on her. The guy you meet if you did the Gunbreaker quests showing up is pretty cool. I liked that a lot.
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Feb 3, 2021 01:00
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thetoughestbean posted:The guy you meet if you did the Gunbreaker quests showing up is pretty cool. I liked that a lot. i was wondering who that guy was. he seems cool
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Feb 3, 2021 01:56
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thetoughestbean posted:Mikoto is very amusing to me because on paper she looks like a character from a fanfiction. She’s a young Archon who just so happens to have had a Scion as a mentor, she’s got a working relationship with Cid (and I think she’s implied to have feelings for him?) she’s got the Echo except it’s a special kind that lets her see into the future, and she has a twin that’s the polar opposite of her (that I am convinced is one of Matsuno’s alts and a way for him to pit his OC in the game) except she constantly looks like a hit puppy because life somehow keeps finding new and interesting ways to poo poo on her. From her perspective you're the oddly powerful and unique NPC who is having this interesting story along hers.
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Feb 3, 2021 02:07
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Vermain posted:
Is that why Mikoto gave up everything Misjija needed and got like, all of the blades tempered and turned into horrible abominations? This whole mess was entirely her fault and she should feel bad  I hate the trope of, "oh no our guy's captured we should give the super nazi what they want" Valleyant fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Feb 3, 2021 |
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Feb 3, 2021 02:29
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Valleyant posted:Is that why Mikoto gave up everything Misjija needed and got like, all of the blades tempered and turned into horrible abominations? This whole mess was entirely her fault and she should feel bad Please, tell us how you as the Cool, Rational And Smart Protagonist would have played things without getting literally everybody killed or worse by the woman who held all the cards.
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Feb 3, 2021 03:03
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I could've turned that primal into a luminous smear back in CLL. The cowards simply wouldn't let me.
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Feb 3, 2021 03:11
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So what exactly is the lore reason why Queen Gunnhildr 1. wears nothing but a bikini and jewelry, and 2. is fought in Delubrum Reginae in a battle mech with outspread robo-legs with high heels? One of my only complaints with this game (having thousands of hours in it) is the bad track record with female primals (Garuda, both Shivas, Sophia, Lakshmi all being fanservicey in different ways). This is the most nonsensical and demeaning design yet. I wish there was one female primal in this game that was both 1. fully clothed and 2. did not shove you into her breasts as her ultimate attack. At least they restrained themselves with Titania, but she's not technically a primal, either.
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Feb 3, 2021 03:34
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Cleretic posted:Please, tell us how you as the Cool, Rational And Smart Protagonist would have played things without getting literally everybody killed or worse by the woman who held all the cards. The only card she had at that moment was Mikoto, after which she then did in fact have all the cards after she tempered a whole bunch of people I would have probably walk the like, two feet to go in front of the captured lady but I'm personally not an engine of destruction who in 1/3 of instances can cast rescue, another 1/3 can become literally invulnerable and the other can punch real good or do a standoff. Also kinda weird to do the fates knowing that half the npcs you fight alongside are horrible Cronenberg's that you have to kill because you and mikoto gave the villain what they wanted. Honestly It's similar to the problem problem I had with Ran'jit; the game usually avoiding these situations is what makes them stand out so much more to me. Eox posted:I could've turned that primal into a luminous smear back in CLL. The cowards simply wouldn't let me. also this
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Feb 3, 2021 03:36
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Great, so your plan was to basically kick off a firefight with the woman who has the biggest, scariest gun in the room. It's a good thing you're immune to tempering, 'cause you're gonna be the only one in the room that isn't about five seconds after trying that.
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Feb 3, 2021 03:41
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Cleretic posted:Great, so your plan was to basically kick off a firefight with the woman who has the biggest, scariest gun in the room. It's a good thing you're immune to tempering, 'cause you're gonna be the only one in the room that isn't about five seconds after trying that. I mean, at that point it's like +2 bodies over what actually happened and probably -1 primal. It's not the big of a loss over what actually happened.
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Feb 3, 2021 03:42
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Cleretic posted:Great, so your plan was to basically kick off a firefight with the woman who has the biggest, scariest gun in the room. It's a good thing you're immune to tempering, 'cause you're gonna be the only one in the room that isn't about five seconds after trying that. she couldn't temper at that point
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Feb 3, 2021 03:42
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Watching her temper those soldiers this patch was a little weird, we can shield people from tempering and there was like five guys backing Misija up
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Feb 3, 2021 03:45
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Eox posted:Watching her temper those soldiers this patch was a little weird, we can shield people from tempering and there was like five guys backing Misija up Yeah, we just kind of keep letting misja do things. Like, the arguement for saving mikoto is that we're big drat heroes right? But then we just let misja temper a bunch of people in front of us Valleyant fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Feb 3, 2021 |
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Feb 3, 2021 03:48
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You were far away, she had a better chance to react than you, and you didn't know her crystal had low battery. She could've seen you coming and quickly tempered/executed people before you could stop her. Not only that, but with Lyon on the way you would've engaged a fight that you swiftly lost. I'm sure the theoretical game where your character is perfect, hypercompetent and never loses any ground sounds fun, but it's not the one we're playing. We're playing Final Fantasy XIV, a game where there's sometimes people stronger than you, often people smarter than you, and you have exploitable weaknesses--usually, your habit of making friends with people who are significantly more mortal than you. Maybe the Warrior of Light should just find more invincible friends.
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Feb 3, 2021 04:03
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I've killed Lyon before and I can do it again edit: i will Eox fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Feb 3, 2021 |
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Feb 3, 2021 04:55
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Misija's motivation - that members of the old Bozjan aristocracy are fighting for the "freedom" to oppress the common people - is a good story idea. Pretty much everything else about Bozja is incredibly uninspired at best and a complete flop in presentation at worst. I hate the place and feel no connection to it or the people involved in it at this point.
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Feb 3, 2021 08:18
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I don't mind that we didn't kill Misija, and it's kind of interesting that seemingly in general life imprisonment and summary execution are things that are Not Done in Hydaelyn's good-guy ranks to the point of them persistently offering atonement even to horrible war criminals like her, but we have killed people for considerably less than what she did. I like Bozja well enough, but I think the core problem is we don't actually have any direct interaction with Bozja's people outside the context of war. In general Ilsabard seems like a really interesting setting, but it's offscreen so much.
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Feb 3, 2021 09:35
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King Cohort posted:So what exactly is the lore reason why Queen Gunnhildr 1. wears nothing but a bikini and jewelry, and 2. is fought in Delubrum Reginae in a battle mech with outspread robo-legs with high heels? Tsukuyomi? Suzaku? I guess Suzaku fits under "not technically a Primal" though.
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Feb 3, 2021 09:59
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There's a lot of naked male primals too. They're abstract, aestheticised beings, they don't need to dress sensibly or wear armour for protection, in a sense 'fan service' is a diegetic part of their conception and form
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Feb 3, 2021 10:06
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Female primals and raid bosses tend to be far more sexualized than their male counterparts and the game has a lot of instances where pants become shorts and shoes become thigh-highs, but comparatively speaking its sexualization is shockingly egalitarian by comparison to most other products of its ilk.
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Feb 3, 2021 10:10
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Jetrauben posted:I don't mind that we didn't kill Misija, and it's kind of interesting that seemingly in general life imprisonment and summary execution are things that are Not Done in Hydaelyn's good-guy ranks to the point of them persistently offering atonement even to horrible war criminals like her, but we have killed people for considerably less than what she did. Most of the major characters we've 'killed for less' are people who kinda forced the issue and were trying for our lives. The one exception is, like... Thordan? He wasn't trying to kill us at the time, but he definitely still wanted to. Unless you're talking about generic enemies like bandits and soldiers. In that case, remember that this is a video game, so it doesn't count unless you learn their name.
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Feb 3, 2021 10:14
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Jetrauben posted:I don't mind that we didn't kill Misija, and it's kind of interesting that seemingly in general life imprisonment and summary execution are things that are Not Done in Hydaelyn's good-guy ranks to the point of them persistently offering atonement even to horrible war criminals like her, but we have killed people for considerably less than what she did. Once we beat her primal form, she wasn’t a threat and we could capture her, and the WoL typically doesn’t do summary executions. Plus Mikoto was right there, and she would rather you not kill her. The field note that records Stanik interviewing Misija, she’s pretty sure that once they get together a court martial, she’s going to be executed, and it’s hard to disagree. I wouldn’t expect for Misija to get Fordola’s deal, tbh. Stanik is sympathetic to her but has way less pull than Lyse does
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Feb 3, 2021 10:53
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thetoughestbean posted:Once we beat her primal form, she wasn’t a threat and we could capture her, and the WoL typically doesn’t do summary executions. Plus Mikoto was right there, and she would rather you not kill her. The field note that records Stanik interviewing Misija, she’s pretty sure that once they get together a court martial, she’s going to be executed, and it’s hard to disagree. Staniks dead as gently caress, he was monster mashed into the hot and cold boss
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Feb 3, 2021 13:10
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King Cohort posted:So what exactly is the lore reason why Queen Gunnhildr 1. wears nothing but a bikini and jewelry, and 2. is fought in Delubrum Reginae in a battle mech with outspread robo-legs with high heels? i guess ffxiv has more justification for it than others, since primals are an idea brought to life, rather than a real entity. most conceptions of goddesses through history have been pretty racy, and most primals in the game are pretty underdressed regardless of gender. it makes a lot less sense with shiva and gunnhildr though, since those are based on one person's vision, rather than a collective idea, and i dont feel like ysale or misija would imagine their primal forms as super sexy. edit: i think its also canon that the WoL tries to avoid killing people in battle for the most part. a big part of the black mage storyline is that suddenly the mooks you fight are dead afterwards, and naturally the white mage assumes its because you can't control your magic. so presumably up that point the WoL had not been just murdering every mob they came across. juggalo baby coffin fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Feb 3, 2021 |
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Feb 3, 2021 13:25
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Gunnhildr's look, though, is detailed in apparently-common-knowledge wall art; we see it in cutscenes and the ending cards for each part of the Bozja storyline, not sure if we ever see where the murals are physically. But we do see the art depicting Gunnhildr as wearing that, including the headdress. The primal (or almost-primal) version is a roe because Misija knows that particular Gunnhildr is her ancestor, but dressed like the murals because she is 'the real queen'. As for Shiva... I mean, Ysayle's relationship with the story of Shiva is loving complicated. There's like six different ways Ysayle's interpretation of her could end up weirdly sexualized, and Ysayle's not exactly around to ask.
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Feb 3, 2021 13:32
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it's just kinda a Final Fantasy Thing that Shiva is usually hot ( ), idk that I'd look into character motivations as to why
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Feb 3, 2021 13:35
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Eventually both the doylist and watsonian perspectives dovetail into "horny"
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Feb 3, 2021 13:37
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CYBEReris posted:it's just kinda a Final Fantasy Thing that Shiva is usually hot ( Redolent Rose needs to get the echo so he can do retroactive fashion week
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Feb 3, 2021 13:38
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Valleyant posted:Staniks dead as gently caress, he was monster mashed into the hot and cold boss gently caress, I meant Marsak. I am terrible with names
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Feb 3, 2021 14:44
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Well, you're not wrong that Stanik has way less pull than Lyse does now
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Feb 3, 2021 14:47
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Farg posted:what tha gently caress is a woobie 
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Feb 3, 2021 14:49
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Cleretic posted:Gunnhildr's look, though, is detailed in apparently-common-knowledge wall art; we see it in cutscenes and the ending cards for each part of the Bozja storyline, not sure if we ever see where the murals are physically. But we do see the art depicting Gunnhildr as wearing that, including the headdress. The primal (or almost-primal) version is a roe because Misija knows that particular Gunnhildr is her ancestor, but dressed like the murals because she is 'the real queen'. Why did the designers decide that's what Gunnhildr wore, though? SirSamVimes posted:Tsukuyomi? Suzaku? Had entirely forgotten Tsukuyomi--she and Titania at least defy the usual. Suzaku's design is also great. I wish her entire character wasn't just a romantic obsession with Tenzen, but I won't nitpick in comparison to the others. I still can't get over Gunnhildr's completely superfluous spread robo-legs.
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Feb 3, 2021 15:58
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Titania's not a she, they're a they.
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Feb 3, 2021 16:17
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thetoughestbean posted:gently caress, I meant Marsak. I am terrible with names how dare you not remember the name of stanik t hegehog, may he rest in piece Ironslave posted:Titania's not a she, they're a they. I'm pretty sure all the pixies are non-binary which is pretty neat
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Feb 3, 2021 18:47
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thetoughestbean posted:Once we beat her primal form, she wasn’t a threat and we could capture her, and the WoL typically doesn’t do summary executions. Plus Mikoto was right there, and she would rather you not kill her. The field note that records Stanik interviewing Misija, she’s pretty sure that once they get together a court martial, she’s going to be executed, and it’s hard to disagree. Oh sure, I get it, it's just a bit eyebrow raising given she fusion danced a bunch of her victims, who are largely people we know. That's a pretty extraordinary offense! (Seriously, what the hell, Misija? A: how, and B: why?) That said, Balsajien also seems somewhat sympathetic.
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Feb 3, 2021 19:20
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King Cohort posted:Gunnhildr's completely superfluous spread robo-legs. But they're backwards, brass, segmented and spinning mechano legs. It's not like full spread eagle Gunnhildr here
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Feb 3, 2021 19:39
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There's also Agrias, Ultima, Eden's Promise, and the Oracle of Darkness. The game doesn't present all God-like female characters as sexualized. That said, that doesn't justify Ryne-Shiva's design, which is literally the "no she's actually a 1000 year old Goddess in a 15 year old's body" bit, nor does it justify Queen Gunnhildr's design. I get that the Misija-Gunnhildr is supposed to be a handmaiden forced to sacrifice herself and become a primal, and not the actual queen, but that still doesn't explain why she's wearing a bikini. It's lame, and the kind of poo poo they should be above doing.
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Feb 3, 2021 20:07
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