|
I just built a levain. 
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2021 16:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 06:19 |
|
|
What does different flour to do sourdough cultures? I have a ton of extra wide mouth mason jars so I just decided on a whim to split my (white whole wheat) starter into 3 batches: 1 bread flour, 1 all-purpose, and 1 with the same same white whole wheat for control. Just kinda curios how it’ll affect the flavor. I’m guessing the AP and bread flour are pretty much the same thing but the whole wheat would taste different but I’m not a bread scientist.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2021 19:06
|
|
|
fourwood posted:A levain is just a mini second starter you make from your main starter, and then the entirety of the levain gets mixed into the dough when it’s risen to its peak. So let's say I would like to have 100g levain, I take 30 from my starter and add 35gr of water and 35gr of wheat flour and leave that for something like a day and then mix that into my bread dough? So a levain is basically starter intended for baking? I am a developer, would levain be a branch and your starter the trunk in your VCS? And the purpose of the feeding of the starter is just so you always have live yeast at hand in a nice sour culture that allows only for the yeast and the desired bacteria to survive?
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2021 19:19
|
|
|
Keetron posted:So let's say I would like to have 100g levain, I take 30 from my starter and add 35gr of water and 35gr of wheat flour and leave that for something like a day and then mix that into my bread dough? So a levain is basically starter intended for baking? I am a developer, would levain be a branch and your starter the trunk in your VCS? And the purpose of the feeding of the starter is just so you always have live yeast at hand in a nice sour culture that allows only for the yeast and the desired bacteria to survive? But you’ll probably only leave it for like 6-8 hours before it’s ripe for baking. (Change the ratio to have less starter if you want it to take longer to rise, e.g 20 g starter and 40 g water and 40 g flour for a 1:2:2 ratio, or 1 : 3 : 3, etc.) I fed my starter on Sunday night at 1:1:1 with retaining 40 g starter, which is 100% all-purpose flour. I took it out of the fridge last night to be room temp by this morning. This morning I did 22 g of that, 22 g of water, and 22 g of a combo of whole wheat and AP to make my levain be 50% whole wheat. Then I stuck the remaining ~100 g of starter back in the fridge. If it totally fails then you can disregard everything I say.  Boris Galerkin posted:What does different flour to do sourdough cultures? I have a ton of extra wide mouth mason jars so I just decided on a whim to split my (white whole wheat) starter into 3 batches: 1 bread flour, 1 all-purpose, and 1 with the same same white whole wheat for control. Just kinda curios how it’ll affect the flavor. I’m guessing the AP and bread flour are pretty much the same thing but the whole wheat would taste different but I’m not a bread scientist. fourwood fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Feb 3, 2021 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2021 19:27
|
|
|
fourwood posted:Yep, you got it. Just don’t merge it back to trunk. Of course there’s an article on Serious Eats. I like the website too.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2021 19:31
|
|
|
Iirc the flour you feed will completely take over a starter after like 8 months. I just feed mine whatever but if you want say a pure tartine 50/50 white/WW and you start from a rye, any rye cultures will eventually just be overtaken by the yeasties that exist from the white/WW.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2021 19:33
|
|
|
Submarine Sandpaper posted:I tried a bunch of gimic steam poo poo and I think the best is just boiling water in a cheap sauce pan you throw in right before or with the bread on thr bottom or bottom rack, heat element depending i mean i agree you shouldn't use a sheet pan, but i don't get this handles are necessary thing. you leave a pan in there for preheat, you pour in boiling water, and you can take it out when the oven is cool. not sure why you need handles. Boris Galerkin posted:What does different flour to do sourdough cultures? I have a ton of extra wide mouth mason jars so I just decided on a whim to split my (white whole wheat) starter into 3 batches: 1 bread flour, 1 all-purpose, and 1 with the same same white whole wheat for control. Just kinda curios how it’ll affect the flavor. I’m guessing the AP and bread flour are pretty much the same thing but the whole wheat would taste different but I’m not a bread scientist. whole wheat will often exhibit more activity, there's different stuff for the microbes to eat, and they can sometimes exhibit off flavours due to fat oxidation and breakdown (though that shouldn't scare you off). your cultures will change over time based on flour, based on room temperature, based on a lot of factors. they're rarely as static as anyone thinks. mediaphage fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Feb 3, 2021 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2021 19:47
|
|
|
You generally want to stop steaming at a certain point to form crust. Less risk of scalding with a gandle if you don't know you need 3 oz of water for 20 mins of steam or whatever magic number it might be.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2021 19:51
|
|
|
Submarine Sandpaper posted:You generally want to stop steaming at a certain point to form crust. Less risk of scalding with a gandle if you don't know you need 3 oz of water for 20 mins of steam or whatever magic number it might be. I dunno how much water you're adding, but I've never had to worry about stopping the steam in my oven. I'm usually tossing like a cup and a half into a pan and just leaving the pan on the bottom shelf until I'm done.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2021 20:19
|
|
|
I have been making bread in my pullman for the last few weeks and it has mostly been pretty successful, even if I havn't managed a perfectly square one. Certainly a big improvement over sandwich bread from the store. This weekend I have been thinking about trying my hand at making bagels. Anyone one have any advice/can just tell me it isn't worth the trouble vs just going to a decent bagel shop.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2021 20:36
|
|
|
Lord_Hambrose posted:I have been making bread in my pullman for the last few weeks and it has mostly been pretty successful, even if I havn't managed a perfectly square one. Certainly a big improvement over sandwich bread from the store. Might as well try it out, not much else to do these days. The biggest thing I learned after a couple trays of bagels is when forming the bagels, make the hole a lot larger than you'd think, cuz when they go into the water, they're gonna puff up a lot and that hole is gonna close up.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2021 20:39
|
|
|
Casu Marzu posted:I dunno how much water you're adding, but I've never had to worry about stopping the steam in my oven. I'm usually tossing like a cup and a half into a pan and just leaving the pan on the bottom shelf until I'm done. exactly, you shouldn't be adding more water than evaporates in a minute or two. ideally you start the oven hotter than your overall bake time, add water when you first put the dough in, add some more water a minute or two later, and turn the oven down at this point and let it go. you should absolutely not be trying to take out a pan of hot water from your oven. Casu Marzu posted:Might as well try it out, not much else to do these days. The biggest thing I learned after a couple trays of bagels is when forming the bagels, make the hole a lot larger than you'd think, cuz when they go into the water, they're gonna puff up a lot and that hole is gonna close up. agree although tbh i don't care about the hole, really. i find they mostly close up in the oven and leave only a bit of a hole, but it doesn't change anything except perhaps appearance and i can't be bothered to do it any differently lol. i will say if you have a mixer, just knead the gently caress out of the dough. like, knead it for minutes and minutes. easier bagels imo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2021 20:39
|
|
|
I use AP flour for my starter just because it's the cheapest and usually the most versatile for when I get enough cast-off to make pancakes or something.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2021 20:45
|
|
|
fourwood posted:Just don’t merge it back to trunk. That was indeed the part of the analogy that I was uncertain about myself, but you confirmed what I thought. Thank you for the 8h rise on a levain, that means I mix it around lunch and then can use it in the evening for an overnight no knead ferment.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2021 22:28
|
|
|
Ok, so, I think I might be in some trouble with this recipe I am testing out. Thankfully it's a test, so I halved it, so if it goes completely to waste then I'm out 6 dinner rolls worth of flour. Woop-dee-doo. Anyway, my problems are, 1.) My starter seems like it's way too wet compared to what the recipe wanted. I made the dough last night, and then when I went to work with it today, it was like pancake batter. I added a bunch more flour till the dough kind of came together, then let it sit for about half an hour to help it hydrate a bit more before trying to work with it again. I'm sure that killed the whole attempt, but in the future, how do I work around that problem? Should I have added less water than the recipe called for, and then slowly added more till the dough gets to the right consistency? Problem 2 is, this recipe was a no-knead recipe, after I portioned the dough into roll-sized lumps, the dough was just this... shaggy, flaccid mess. I ended up kind of kneading the dough balls in my hands with extra flour to try and get them to shape up a bit more and kind of form boules before letting them rest. If I didn't kill it before, did I kill it now? I'm not specifically looking for a no-knead recipe, so did I do the right thing here? If not, what should I have done differently? The dough's still in it's last rising stage before baking. I'm not expecting much rise out of these things, given how things have gone. I guess I'm expecting sourdough cookies rather than sourdough rolls. I'll report back with how it goes. EDIT: Rolls came out. Overall, they did the same thing Redreader's rolls did and kinda slumped and didn't rise especially well. So, yay, they didn't die, but yeah, I definitely needed to fold/knead them more next time and form boules better. And also figure out how to best compensate for the different hydration level of my starter compared to what the recipe is expecting. neogeo0823 fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Feb 4, 2021 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2021 22:53
|
|
|
neogeo0823 posted:Ok, so, I think I might be in some trouble with this recipe I am testing out. Thankfully it's a test, so I halved it, so if it goes completely to waste then I'm out 6 dinner rolls worth of flour. Woop-dee-doo. what was your overall hydration level?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 03:08
|
|
|
mediaphage posted:what was your overall hydration level? Of the starter, or the dough in the recipe? TBH I have no idea. I really should dump most of my starter and start again with weighing out the inputs. I think for a while, the wife was discarding without mixing the starter, so she'd dump a lot of the water that settled on the top, and the stuff started getting really doughy. So, to attempt to correct it, I would feed it a 1:1.5 of flour:water till the consistency got better, but I think I went too far in the other direction. As for the recipe itself, here's what it called for: 3 ½ cups bread flour 1 ¼ cups warm, filtered or distilled water ½ tsp salt ¾ cup sourdough starter It didn't mention anything about the consistency of the starter, so I think they must've had much dryer starter. Also, the bread needed more salt. Like, just a pinch more. Salted butter slathered on would have worked as well, I guess.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 05:47
|
|
|
fourwood posted:I just built a levain.  . Too late tonight, so I’ll have to cut into it tomorrow. I’m getting a lot better at handling very wet/slack bread dough, though, so that felt good. This thing was still a pretty big puddle after bulk ferm.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 06:47
|
|
|
neogeo0823 posted:Of the starter, or the dough in the recipe? TBH I have no idea. I really should dump most of my starter and start again with weighing out the inputs. I think for a while, the wife was discarding without mixing the starter, so she'd dump a lot of the water that settled on the top, and the stuff started getting really doughy. So, to attempt to correct it, I would feed it a 1:1.5 of flour:water till the consistency got better, but I think I went too far in the other direction. You’ll find this easier if you weight by mass rather than volume.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 10:45
|
|
|
You all made the pullman loafs look too nice, so now I've got a pan coming tomorrow. Anyone have a recipe they like for a 13x4 pan (or just have the proportions figured out already)?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 14:52
|
|
|
I usually try to aim for a 1200 gram loaf or so in a 13x4 pullman. The last couple I posted were more or less the King Arthur Pain Mie recipe. It's a perfectly good milk bread recipe as written. But, I do usually make a couple modifications. I tend to not have potato flakes or flour around, so I usually just skip it or add in a small amount of some other flour I have laying around, whole wheat, light rye, whatev. I also like adding a scoop of diastatic malt to the recipe. Edit: I'm also terrible at having butter softened, so I'm usually shoving a stick of butter in my pocket while I'm getting the dough going and just adding it in later in the mix. I guess what I'm saying is this is a super flexible recipe lol Casu Marzu fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Feb 4, 2021 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 15:00
|
|
|
lol at melted butter. "Uh, I'll just throw this in the microwave for 1 minute and check on it halfway." [5 minutes later] "Well, I guess butter doesn't get much softer than completely melted."
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 15:10
|
|
|
Casu Marzu posted:I usually try to aim for a 1200 gram loaf or so in a 13x4 pullman. For softening butter, boil up water and pour it into a tall (warmed, so it doesn’t shock and shatter) glass. Let it heat up while you weigh out your butter. Shape it into a tall rectangle and smash it onto a plate so it doesn’t fall over. Empty out the boiling water and cover your butter monolith. It should usually soften enough by the time you need it if it’s the first thing you do.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 15:12
|
|
|
therattle posted:You’ll find this easier if you weight by mass rather than volume. exactly. starters are easiest by keeping to a 1:1 ratio; just stir it together and add additions in the same 1:1 ratio. total hydration for your loaf is really flexible; if you're having trouble shaping and such, try keeping it to a max of 65% of flour weight or so. Huxley posted:You all made the pullman loafs look too nice, so now I've got a pan coming tomorrow. one thing to keep in mind is that how much flour you use will depend on the style of bread. a really poofy enriched dough will fill up a pullman pan with much less dough than a sourdough or rye loaf, say. Casu Marzu posted:I usually try to aim for a 1200 gram loaf or so in a 13x4 pullman. yeah i find almost all bread dough formulas are way more flexible than people like to admit. i talk about this a lot but i tend to only make two kinds of dough, and then use those for just about every conceivable baked good. one's a lean dough and the enriched dough is the same dough but with...enrichments...added. anyway for sammich bread i tend to shoot for a 67% hydration, 30g of buttermilk or milk powder, an egg, and a knob of butter. the egg makes it slightly stiffer than wonder bread style bread, which is good for french toast and the like. like casu said, you can sort of just add whatever, but typically sandwich breads are soft and sometimes pillowy. which usually means adding a fat like butter, and adding something like milk or milk powder, honey or molasses, malt powder, etc., that in addition to helping soften the crumb provide extra fuel for the yeast.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 15:13
|
|
|
To soften a stick of fridge butter microwave for 45 seconds at power 3. Results may vary if your fridge is much colder or warmer than normal.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 15:13
|
|
|
Boris Galerkin posted:For softening butter, boil up water and pour it into a tall (warmed, so it doesn’t shock and shatter) glass. Let it heat up while you weigh out your butter. Shape it into a tall rectangle and smash it onto a plate so it doesn’t fall over. Empty out the boiling water and cover your butter monolith. It should usually soften enough by the time you need it if it’s the first thing you do. i'm sure this works, but that's a lot of effort for something to just incorporate into bread dough imo. a few seconds in the microwave is generally fine if you have one. if not just setting it on a plate in your warming oven for a minute will work.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 15:15
|
|
|
Boris Galerkin posted:For softening butter, boil up water and pour it into a tall (warmed, so it doesn’t shock and shatter) glass. Let it heat up while you weigh out your butter. Shape it into a tall rectangle and smash it onto a plate so it doesn’t fall over. Empty out the boiling water and cover your butter monolith. It should usually soften enough by the time you need it if it’s the first thing you do. That's way too much work. It's a lot easier to shove it in a pocket. I'd soften in a microwave but I don't own one
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 15:21
|
|
|
Do you guys not have electric water kettles?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 15:22
|
|
|
yes? it’s still a lot of work. it’s sort of pointless for me since i always leave a block of butter out but even when i need to soften something i’m not going to smash a block of butter and heat up an extra dish to do it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 15:55
|
|
|
I've never had much problems rubbing cold butter in with my fingertips. Coconut butter, on the other hand, is a pig.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 15:58
|
|
|
pullman arrived yesterday. since this was a lean mostly sourdough the pans can take a lot more than a standard enriched bread and as such i didn’t fill it enough. so. snack breads. but i really like the crusts and this bodes well. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 16:04
|
|
|
That is a v nice looking crumb. I should start tossing leaner doughs into the pullman.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 16:22
|
|
|
Casu Marzu posted:That is a v nice looking crumb. I should start tossing leaner doughs into the pullman. thanks. really enjoying this two-stage hydration process for high-hydration doughs, first with less water and no salt, then folding in salt water later. i can’t tell if it’s really making a difference but i will say it’s making for great crumb and texture so i’ll keep doing it on the lean doughs for the time being.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 16:34
|
|
|
Why are you heathens discussing butter in a bread thread? Flour, Water, Yeast, Salt, Time, wasn't that the magic?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 16:46
|
|
|
If butter isn’t magic then I don’t know what is.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 16:47
|
|
|
Keetron posted:Why are you heathens discussing butter in a bread thread? Flour, Water, Yeast, Salt, Time, wasn't that the magic? Those are all chemicals and so is butter and by magic some chemicals form flour and others form butter. It’s like poetry it rhymes.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 16:49
|
|
|
fourwood posted:If butter isn’t magic then I don’t know what is. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 16:54
|
|
|
fourwood posted:If butter isn’t magic then I don’t know what is.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 16:55
|
|
|
People have been throwing butter into bread for as long as they had butter to spare, and we've got a lot of butter to spare right now.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 19:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 06:19 |
|
|
Has anyone successfully used oat milk in place of real milk?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2021 23:37
|
|