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Krispy Wafer posted:losing their virginity AceOfFlames posted:All those things require money which young people no longer have. I uh
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Feb 4, 2021 17:27
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Krispy Wafer posted:Zoomers getting their licenses later seems related to social media and technology more than anything else. Sociologists are still trying to figure out why it's occurring, but teenagers right now are hitting their various milestones of youth later than Gen-X's or Millennials (driving, losing their virginity, getting their first jobs, etc) in significant numbers. A lot of the jobs that used to be open to teenagers either don't exist any more due to automation or are being filled by older people because there are no jobs for them.
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Feb 4, 2021 17:27
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These changes are being seen in families that have money as well. Being poor or underemployed is always a factor, but these trends are happening whether the Zoomers have money or not. If you can't afford a car you can't lose your virginity in a car.
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Feb 4, 2021 17:31
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I recall losing my virginity for free, but it was a long time ago and eventually led to an objectively expensive divorce 20 years later, so I guess I can see it either way.
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Feb 4, 2021 17:42
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Krispy Wafer posted:These changes are being seen in families that have money as well. Being poor or underemployed is always a factor, but these trends are happening whether the Zoomers have money or not. Rich failchildren don't see the need to get a car or whatever because they have chauffers probably. Poor kids can't afford cars. There I solved it.
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Feb 4, 2021 18:08
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Also, just like rent, college tuition, gas, and basically everything else that keeps young people living at home with family longer, the cost of even a used car today has inflated a ton compared to the past. Even cheap compacts that go for like $20K or less brand new will still cost you $10K+ for something that's nearly 10 years old and with a ton of mileage on it.
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Feb 4, 2021 18:24
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Biplane posted:Rich failchildren don't see the need to get a car or whatever because they have chauffers probably. Poor kids can't afford cars. There I solved it. I think you’re missing the prevalence of ride share in there. A certain level of family can probably afford frequent rideshares over a separate vehicle, insurance, etc.
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Feb 4, 2021 18:26
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"Just call an Uber" is definitely a thing for teens. Car ownership confers a lot of benefits but the economic costs are too much for some people
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Feb 4, 2021 18:29
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FilthyImp posted:"Just call an Uber" is definitely a thing for teens. Car ownership confers a lot of benefits but the economic costs are too much for some people Teens? Owning a car is hundreds of dollars a month in financing/insurance/parking/gasoline/maintenance. What if you'd only drive it once or twice?
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Feb 4, 2021 18:52
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The internet makes you
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Feb 5, 2021 01:51
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Cars, huh? Fun. What's up with GameStop nowadays?
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Feb 5, 2021 02:40
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If you can’t afford means of transportation it’s pretty difficult to date. When “long distance relationship” means “outside reasonable walking distance” it tends to limit your options.
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Feb 5, 2021 03:56
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Krispy Wafer posted:These changes are being seen in families that have money as well. Being poor or underemployed is always a factor, but these trends are happening whether the Zoomers have money or not. Again, parental support is a biggie, and a shitload of millennials are basically feral children due to parents being overworked or just lazy and indifferent and were raised by video games and the internet. Promoted Pawn posted:If you can’t afford means of transportation it’s pretty difficult to date. When “long distance relationship” means “outside reasonable walking distance” it tends to limit your options. And remember these kids often live in suburbs that basically make you completely isolated without motor transport and have little to no public transport.
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Feb 5, 2021 04:51
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MrKatharsis posted:Cars, huh? Fun. Lots of stories about how much the #diamondhands crowd has lost since the previous day. I'm sure by now anyone who bought in after Jan 25th has seen their money evaporate. It's like a pump and dump scheme except the same people doing the pumping forgot to do the dumping.
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Feb 5, 2021 11:43
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I know lots of people my age and below that don't have cars or even licenses. One of the big reasons to have a car is having children, and I don't doubt that's a factor. There is also a huge geography and urban/rural split. If you live in a major metropolis with good public transport links, you actually 'need' a car almost never. Most of the city kids I know don't drive, most of those born in towns/villages got a car as soon as possible. Driving in the U.S seems way more entrenched and necessary. If you live in Hong Kong or whatever, why bother. I don't doubt at all that the percentage of people who can drive will fall further and further over time with urbanisation and ride share apps. And some people will just have a license and no car, so they can hire whenever they really need to.
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Feb 5, 2021 15:08
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There's an utilization issue with cars where you pay an average of $550 a month for 69 months (ugh, but nice) plus insurance and maintenance to have a depreciating asset that's not moving in your driveway 90%+ of the time. There just isn't another option for a lot of people. If more people WFH home or if ride sharing/autonomous taxis become a thing, a lot of families are, at the very least, going to downgrade to one car. I have no idea what that does to car culture. There are 8 places within a 5 mile radius of my home where I can buy tires.
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Feb 5, 2021 15:38
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Krispy Wafer posted:There's an utilization issue with cars where you pay an average of $550 a month for 69 months (ugh, but nice) plus insurance and maintenance to have a depreciating asset that's not moving in your driveway 90%+ of the time. There just isn't another option for a lot of people. The thing about cars is they don't depreciate nearly as much as they used to. If you drive it off the lot, you don't lose any value until it's around 10 years old. I'd rather not have to use a car, but there's no mass transit to where I work, and even before the plague catching a Lyft to or from work was always a major hassle. One thing about rideshares that no one mentions is that it's really not good. It's all independent, so when it's lovely outside, drivers don't log on, and compounding that with the fact that most people don't want to do a 30 minute drive, it becomes nearly impossible to catch a ride some days. I recently had to get my car repaired, and just catching a ride for the ~3 miles between my home and the shop was nearly impossible, when a year ago, it was easy as gently caress.
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Feb 5, 2021 15:48
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I use a car share program where in there are a buncha cars around the city and I can book one when I need it. Monthly fee, which works out to about $100cdn a month for me. Don't need to pay insurance or gas or maintenance. I mean it's worth it for me.
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Feb 5, 2021 15:52
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Iron Crowned posted:The thing about cars is they don't depreciate nearly as much as they used to. If you drive it off the lot, you don't lose any value until it's around 10 years old. I don't know if we're using the same definitions for "depreciate" and "value", but... huh?
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Feb 5, 2021 16:07
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Iron Crowned posted:The thing about cars is they don't depreciate nearly as much as they used to. If you drive it off the lot, you don't lose any value until it's around 10 years old. Umm... New 2021 Toyota Camry LE: $24,970 Used 2020 Toyota Camry LE: $19,998 (-$4,972 in one year) Used 2011 Toyota Camry LE: $7,998 (-$16,970 in ten years) New 2021 Honda Civic LX: $21,250 Used 2020 Honda Civic LX: $17,998 (-$3,252 in one year) Used 2011 Honda Civic LX: $8,950 (-$17,998 in ten years) Go electric and it's even worse: New 2021 Nissan Leaf SV: $35,835 Used 2020 Nissan Leaf SV: $21,990 (-$13,845 in one year) Used 2011 Nissan Leaf SV: $6,999 (-$28,836 in ten years)
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Feb 5, 2021 18:15
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Older generation Leafs are sort of an edge case though; they were built to be super cheap and don’t have battery temperature regulation worth a poo poo, plus a tiny battery, means you have like a 50 mile range on older used ones. Volts, Bolts and Tesla’s depreciation is much better than Leafs(although your point still stands, cars definitely depreciate quite a bit)
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Feb 5, 2021 19:10
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yeah batteries are like if the clutch on a manual transmission car was 65% of the cost of the car. with so much of the manufacturing cost wrapped up in a giant wear item the value of a used electric car is essentially just the value of the battery plus or minus the value of the paint and interior
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Feb 6, 2021 07:05
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if companies made standardized batteries, or even standardized cells, used electrics would probably retain their value a lot better because it'd be a lot cheaper and easier to repair or replace batteries, but no publicly traded company will ever do anything that fuckin dumb
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Feb 6, 2021 07:07
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Probably doesn't help that the technology is changing really really fast, since battery life is kind of the whole thing that took electric cars from derided hippie gimmicks to genuinely viable, seems like. I was making a comparison to other electronic products, but phones and laptops devalue ridiculously fast simply because while Moore's Law or whatever it was may not quite be in effect as much as it was, the newer models still rapidly outpace the older ones and software is built with the newer ones in mind even when phone makers aren't deliberately sabotaging their back catalogue to force upgrades.
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Feb 6, 2021 07:31
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A lot of the reason driving is down is that truly debilitating anxiety has spiked an absurd degree.
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Feb 6, 2021 07:36
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Proper water cooled batteries are showing excellent performance against degradation, lots of the original Tesla Roadsters have gone over 200kmi on their original packs, some have done 400k, the statistics and data aren't their yet, but it's looking like Model 3's are seeing ~15% degradation at 100k, which isn't bad at all, and means they should be good at least to 200 before needing a battery replacement, which is a fair sight better than almost any clutch, and more miles than a lot of ICE cars will ever see. The CA compliance cars and others with air cooled batteries, like my Nissan Leaf, are significantly worse, especially in exceptionally hot or cold climates, but there's a cottage industry springing up around them (partly because of the terrible OEM support) if my battery lasts through the 8 year/100kmi warranty (6 years from when I purchased it used) I'll gladly cough up the 8 g's to get a refurbed and upgraded pack put in. Point is, in a couple years when every OEM has a liquid conditioned battery, and with the continuous work battery developers are putting in to upgrade the anion and cation interfaces on cells (the main cause of degradation in Lion batteries) battery degradation's not going to be more of a concern than mechanical failures on ICE powered vehicles. This isn't some hand-waving "the future will solve all problems" poo poo either, as I said well designed EVs are already hitting mileages where transmission or engine failure are common on ICE vehicles. And I loving hate Tesla and Musk, but Tesla's battery engineering is rock solid.
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Feb 6, 2021 07:37
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Did they stop using daisy-chained vape batteries at some point?
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Feb 6, 2021 07:50
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Yes, Tesla moved to 21700 cells for the M3, which had a slightly lower energy density, but better lifespan, they're currently moving to even larger tabless cells. And as dismissive as you want to be about "daisy chained vape cells" the 18650 packs performed fine, and provide two layers of protection for the electrolyte in event of a crash.
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Feb 6, 2021 08:13
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Batteries also don't need to last forever. They just need to have even slightly more life expectancy than the other major failure points on ICE vehicles before adoption becomes exponentially more popular.
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Feb 6, 2021 08:15
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Krispy Wafer posted:There's an utilization issue with cars where you pay an average of $550 a month for 69 months (ugh, but nice) plus insurance and maintenance to have a depreciating asset that's not moving in your driveway 90%+ of the time. There just isn't another option for a lot of people. Since COVID I’ve been WFH and I have to remind myself to take the other car out sometimes so the engine and gas don’t sit there for too long. I suspect car culture will be fine because like all hobbies practicality doesn’t matter. If you have space for a tuner or project car then it doesn’t matter what your daily driver is. Me, the guy who has owned 3 Camrys will continue to not care about cars outside of the place to sit while I commute to work (whenever that comes back) and will pray for their demise in favor of bullet trains or something.
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Feb 7, 2021 15:10
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What's the plan for all the dead batteries the future will generate? I think pretty much everything in an internal combustion car can be smelted down back to raw materials, can we do anything with the old batteries besides throw them in landfills? Like, I know there are battery recyclers, but how much of that is actually recycling versus just separating things into conventional-landfill garbage and ultra-toxic-chemical-pit garbage? I've heard things still work out better for the environment even accounting for all the batteries, but I've never heard the details.
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Feb 8, 2021 05:49
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Knormal posted:What's the plan for all the dead batteries the future will generate? I think pretty much everything in an internal combustion car can be smelted down back to raw materials, can we do anything with the old batteries besides throw them in landfills? Like, I know there are battery recyclers, but how much of that is actually recycling versus just separating things into conventional-landfill garbage and ultra-toxic-chemical-pit garbage? Throw them in the ocean, obviously
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Feb 8, 2021 06:06
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PERMACAV 50 posted:Throw them in the ocean, obviously
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Feb 8, 2021 06:17
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Knormal posted:Of course, how could I forget such a free and legal thrill? Question retracted. So people are setting up to do it and from what I've read the constituents are infinitely recyclable. Capitalism being what it is, I'm sure some perverse poo poo will happen because it's cheaper to extract fresh resources from Bolivian slave labor, while repeatedly couping their government, then pollute the gently caress out of some Southeast Asian nation because they'll accept batteries for "recycling" (dumping in a pit) for almost no money, than it is to properly recycle the things. But every Schoolboy knows the recycling technologies will save us!
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Feb 8, 2021 06:54
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Elviscat posted:So people are setting up to do it and from what I've read the constituents are infinitely recyclable.
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Feb 8, 2021 06:57
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Knormal posted:Of course, how could I forget such a free and legal thrill? Question retracted. Come on, come on, turn the radio off It's Friday night, and it won't be long Gotta pull my leads, put my waders on It's Friday night, and it won't be long 'Til I hit the beach front, hit the beach front I got all I need No, I ain't got cash, I ain't got cash But I got batteries Baby, I don't need dollar bills to have fun tonight (I love cheap thrills) Baby, I don't need dollar bills to have fun tonight (I love cheap thrills) But I don't need no money As long as I can feel the charge I don't need no money As long as I keep dumping
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Feb 8, 2021 07:46
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Knormal posted:That's good to hear it's at least technically possible, so maybe at some point it'll become cheaper than taking advantage of the third world. I think that's about the best we can ask for right now. It’s not going to be fast, but every electric car maker expects regulations requiring they recycle any batteries they sell, and most of them are working on their designs to make that possible and cheap. We are in no way even close yet, but battery makers are under direct pressure from car makers to make cell construction reversible. It’ll need regulations to make it happen, but it will happen, the components in a battery make it to valuable to ignore. The best thing governments could do is prevent exports of used cells, make sure they are recycled ‘at home’ to prevent dumping and false claims of ‘recyclability’ from manufacturers.
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Feb 8, 2021 08:16
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Old batteries make great artificial reefs! Batteries are a big issue though. There are some weird ideas about how you'd store renewable energy during the day for your power grid to use at night and none are traditional batteries. Instead it's a bunch of Rube Goldberg looking kinetic energy setups.
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Feb 8, 2021 16:22
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Krispy Wafer posted:Old batteries make great artificial reefs! The molten salt solar stuff is really cool at least.
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Feb 8, 2021 16:40
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Krispy Wafer posted:Old batteries make great artificial reefs! I've only got a basic understanding of electronics, but why don't they just make a capacitor like the size of a building to store the power and release it at night? Man, electrical engineers are stupid.
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Feb 8, 2021 19:30
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