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Phenotype posted:As a corollary, I pretend that, during FF14 cutscenes, everyone's watching my character talk to all the people and do all the things. Why would your slutty catgirl be center stage? I'm the Warrior of Light, you're just some random goober I convinced to help out. Vitamean posted:you get to live that out in reality in the crystal chronicles remaster where you all sit around while the host reads a letter from their mom 
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Feb 4, 2021 23:04
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Andrew Verse posted:But plot is one of the primary ways how you build a world. MMO plots are universally awful, just give us a sand box and the player interactions and relationships will build the plot. All the good story elements in MMO's are effectively experienced as single player games that somehow ended up in online game. Like I enjoy the story content of SWTOR and ESO but I don't get why either of them is an MMO, and not some co-op type game instead. I can't even remember the story of a instanced dungeon or raid and I've done countless runs of both in various games over the past 20 years.
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Feb 5, 2021 00:51
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Mustang posted:MMO plots are universally awful, just give us a sand box and the player interactions and relationships will build the plot. How will we get cash shop money when goons camp and spawn kill every new player that appears?
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Feb 5, 2021 00:56
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Mustang posted:MMO plots are universally awful, just give us a sand box and the player interactions and relationships will build the plot. Yeah that's my issue - a lot of these games don't make sense as an MMO. ESO is an extremely weird example because it doesn't play like an Elder Scrolls game at all. If I want an Elder Scrolls MMO I'd want it to play like one of those games. Might just be a generation gap between players.
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Feb 5, 2021 01:02
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Mustang posted:MMO plots are universally awful, just give us a sand box and the player interactions and relationships will build the plot. I mean if they were just regular co op RPGs they would be exceedingly boring ones. You can get away with very shallow mechanics and questing areas in mmos because punching buttons isn't the focus, if you want to do a single player or co op game the standards will be far higher.
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Feb 5, 2021 01:24
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Sure, I just think that kind of content doesn't belong in MMO's and actively detracts from the massively multiplayer experience. They certainly don't add anything to it. What's the point of having such robust and fleshed out single player experiences in an MMO?
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Feb 5, 2021 01:32
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I think they're fine as long as it isn't "YOURE THE CHOSEN ONE"
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Feb 5, 2021 02:25
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I like that FF14 has a quote about the protagonist (you) just being a blender murdering everything around you. It’s something like “wherever the warrior of light goes, death follows” and it very often includes the characters around you friend and foe. Never you, though. Unless you’re doing a new raid with pubbies. It’s an interesting perspective. Like, how many sentient victims of circumstance do “protagonists” kill in MMOs? Yeah they killed a demon but they also robbed and murdered a shitload of poor bandits and killed a shitload of slaves. And don’t get me started on killing dragons for loot, or the entire VanCleef thing.
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Feb 5, 2021 06:16
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jokes posted:I like that FF14 has a quote about the protagonist (you) just being a blender murdering everything around you. It’s something like “wherever the warrior of light goes, death follows” and it very often includes the characters around you friend and foe. yeah I mean you kill Ala Mhigans in the game, which could be war crimes level poo poo IMO
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Feb 5, 2021 07:55
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There's also the Guild Wars 2 route in the base game where it keeps seeming like there's a good plot about to happen and then making GBS threads on it at the 70% mark of every arc. GW2 handles its main plot by essentially (based on your story choices) having three-ish plots for each level range, sometimes more early on based on your starting race. So e.g. as a human you have three potential plots, then you pick your longterm faction and have three plots to pick from, and then you pick your focus in the endgame and that gives you three plots. And then as a dungeon sidestory there's also a separate parallel plot. Anyway the game can't get over the fact that it doesn't seem to know ho to actually write your character as someone with agency even though FF14 somehow manages it with a silent protagonist that occasionally makes dialogue choices. At every point GW2 basically gives you a side character who actually gives you your orders, despite the fact that the game is fully voiced and they could have had your characters give the orders or make decisions. Not only is the main plot "ah, well your destiny is to beat the big dragon; but we're going to focus on the big NPC, whose destiny is much harder since they actually have to heal the land" but the dungeon plots are the same thing because you're apparently trying to get back together a heroic guild that can't stop infighting for no real reason. The writers wrote themselves into a corner of one character very clearly being in the wrong (but maybe being under mind control) but the plot keeps being "we just can't get back together" instead of "what if we all agree that one guy sucked, but the rest of us are cool and can get back together". One of the endgame storylines is you picking "betraying my allies" as your worst fear and then your character goes through like three story missions of "i thought I saw enemies but then when I looked around there are only dead allies around me, huhhh whuhhhh???" which is really just insulting to everybody's intelligence. Also this could all be out of date by now because I haven't played the game since like 2014 but I'm definitely assuming they didn't rewrite the whole game.
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Feb 5, 2021 12:50
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the base game 1-80 personal story was garbage, but around living story 3 it gets pretty good imo e: unlike ff14 you can also skip the story completely and catch up on what happened on the wiki, too.
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Feb 5, 2021 13:30
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Is gw2 still locking all the "living story" garbage and most content updates behind the cashshop and then whining that making new armor sets is just too difficult the artists need to spend all their time churning out uncustomizable cash shop stuff every 2 weeks instead
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Feb 5, 2021 13:54
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absolutely e: gw2 launched with a single pair of caster pants, the level 10 craftable ones. it took them over 6 years to add another pair lmfao Truga fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Feb 5, 2021 |
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Feb 5, 2021 14:03
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jokes posted:I like that FF14 has a quote about the protagonist (you) just being a blender murdering everything around you. It’s something like “wherever the warrior of light goes, death follows” and it very often includes the characters around you friend and foe. vancleef is like the tip of the iceburg in WoW, honestly. expansion after expansion is just more "so we found a new continent/dimension/whatever...wanna be a death squad agent for our colonial imperialism?" and at a certain point you start to realize, oh, no, blizzard is not trying to make some kind of anti-colonial statement here. they just think colonialism is really fun and cool
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Feb 5, 2021 16:48
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Mustang posted:MMO plots are universally awful, just give us a sand box and the player interactions and relationships will build the plot. says the one who won't give FFXIV's plot a chance?
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Feb 5, 2021 17:07
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bewilderment posted:Also this could all be out of date by now because I haven't played the game since like 2014 but I'm definitely assuming they didn't rewrite the whole game. Nope, the base game story is indeed just as bad as you remember. It does get much better in the living world story seasons 3 and especially 4, however. Xun posted:Is gw2 still locking all the "living story" garbage and most content updates behind the cashshop and then whining that making new armor sets is just too difficult the artists need to spend all their time churning out uncustomizable cash shop stuff every 2 weeks instead Living story: yes and no - it's free if you log on at least once during the episode (a month or two). After that, yes, you need to purchase the ones you missed. As for cosmetics: armor sets, no not really, they usualy seem to include a new one you can collect every now and then. However most other cosmetics, especially glider and mount skins are 100% cash shop only, yes.
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Feb 5, 2021 17:58
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Truga posted:absolutely I'm quite serious when I say thats a shame. I played gw2 a ton through launch and the first expansion but in the end the barrage of cashshop lootboxes and only adding the occasional multi month mega grinds (unless you pay real money to skip it!!) really killed my interest. They have such a good fashion system and they just abandoned it?
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Feb 5, 2021 18:07
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Xun posted:the barrage of cashshop lootboxes and only adding the occasional multi month mega grinds (unless you pay real money to skip it!!) really killed my interest. They have such a good fashion system and they just abandoned it? There is only one type of cash shop loot box (always has been) and I am not aware of any mega grinds you can pay cash to skip. Are you sure you're thinking of the right game?
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Feb 5, 2021 18:29
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Mr. Neutron posted:There is only one type of cash shop loot box (always has been) and I am not aware of any mega grinds you can pay cash to skip. Are you sure you're thinking of the right game? You've always been able to turn gems into gold, and you can use gold to buy the materials for your legendary weapons. There's always been a mega grind you can pay cash to skip.
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Feb 5, 2021 20:59
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Mr. Neutron posted:There is only one type of cash shop loot box (always has been) and I am not aware of any mega grinds you can pay cash to skip. Are you sure you're thinking of the right game? the dye set loot boxes, mount skin loot boxes, standard loot box...
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Feb 6, 2021 04:28
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Xun posted:the dye set loot boxes, mount skin loot boxes, standard loot box... Ah I didn't think of those. Yeah fair enough. Altought the mount skins you can buy directly.
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Feb 6, 2021 16:13
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except the star* ones i want, which are specifically limited to the lootbox mechanic for some reason (the reason is cashmoney)
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Feb 6, 2021 16:44
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apostateCourier posted:says the one who won't give FFXIV's plot a chance? Not that guy, but if buying the latest expansion came with a free month I'd give it another whirl. They haven't done that since vanilla 2.0 though so I'm not holding my breath.
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Feb 6, 2021 16:49
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yeah the whole "pay upwards of 120 bux a year to play this game" thing some mmos do is some legit bullshit
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Feb 6, 2021 17:02
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Truga posted:yeah the whole "pay upwards of 120 bux a year to play this game" thing some mmos do is some legit bullshit For real. I only play FF14 off and on and it never really pushes me to stay subbed which is an excellent feeling after WoW’s, uh, not-as-nice approach
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Feb 6, 2021 17:15
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It'll be free like ARR and Heavensward eventually. They lied that they'd never make those free
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Feb 6, 2021 17:35
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yeah true, if you never actually buy ff14 you can play for free forever, it's just 4-6 years old content but who cares it's new to you lmao
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Feb 6, 2021 17:37
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galenanorth posted:It'll be free like ARR and Heavensward eventually. They lied that they'd never make those free Freeish. While in free mode you can't talk to anyone, or use the market boards, or anything else that would make it a multiplayer game.
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Feb 6, 2021 18:14
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Truga posted:yeah the whole "pay upwards of 120 bux a year to play this game" thing some mmos do is some legit bullshit when did "a subscription = you get updates" go away? every mmo these days seems to have buying the base game/expac AND monthly sub AND microtransaction cash shop all at once
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Feb 6, 2021 18:43
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Biowarfare posted:when did "a subscription = you get updates" go away? when they figured out they can get away with it. I'd have absolutely zero issue with ff14's sub if it was the only charge. having to also buy the expansion is some insane bullshit when it's already a hundo+/year if you play regularly, and oh boy the motherfucking mog station, lol. hey guys, i'm literally paying $100+ a year here, please put the loot inside the game jesus loving christ and then, after they rake in all this money and being one of the more popular online games out there, we don't even get voice acting in like 98% of the game. compared to something like gw2, which isn't nearly as popular and yet somehow manages to even have all the random npc banter voice acted, it's just silly. i love ff14 very much but there's some absolutely insane bullshit present around the game
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Feb 6, 2021 18:59
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Do you really want to hear alphinaud in portuguese?jokes posted:I only play FF14 off and on and it never really pushes me to stay subbed Mogstation's horrendous, terrible, rear end-backwards UI/UX is enough pain for me to not bother cancelling and resubbing every time. But it doesn't seem intentional, just all japanese web has this same form of UI. On the other hand, Blizzard tries its absolute loving best to collect your credit card for recurring billing and makes buying a single month obnoxious as hell (don't forget the "if you add balance it'll take a few days before you can use it!! but you can shortcut this by setting up recurring sub billing") to the point where I refuse to ever buy from them and just get a time card elsewhere to redeem
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Feb 6, 2021 19:08
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LLSix posted:Freeish. While in free mode you can't talk to anyone, or use the market boards, or anything else that would make it a multiplayer game. I've been partying/chatting and running dungeons with a friend of mine on the free trial successfully -- I think a paid account just has to initiate.
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Feb 6, 2021 19:10
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You can definitely talk to people and run dungeons on the trial. Looking at the mog station for the first time was a real  moment.
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Feb 6, 2021 19:16
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Aerox posted:I've been partying/chatting and running dungeons with a friend of mine on the free trial successfully -- I think a paid account just has to initiate. Yeah, a paid account has to initiate. Which they won't know to do unless you're friends IRL. And you still can't use the in-game DMs. FFXIV Free Trial Restrictions posted:Free Trial Players cannot use the "shout," "yell," or "tell" in-game chat options during the Free Trial. SE put in an exorbitant amount of effort to remove the multiplayer aspects of the free trial of their "Massively Multiplayer" game.
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Feb 6, 2021 19:47
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Isn’t all that to help combat the gold seller bots though?
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Feb 6, 2021 19:52
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The guild thing is annoying but yeah all the others make sense for spam.
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Feb 6, 2021 20:03
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kloa posted:Isn’t all that to help combat the gold seller bots though? Correct. The free trial used to not have as many restrictions before they found out that gold selling bots were heavily abusing them and making life miserable for regular players.
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Feb 6, 2021 22:55
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I thought those kind of restrictions were on par with most other free trials.
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Feb 6, 2021 22:58
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:I thought those kind of restrictions were on par with most other free trials. WoW allows access to whispers. GW & ES both allow access to the full game without subscriptions and so don't limit player interactions. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever encountered gold sellers in either game. Are there any other games worth discussing?
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Feb 6, 2021 23:49
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LLSix posted:WoW allows access to whispers. And at least as far as WoW is concerned, it is absolutely infested with gold sellers whispering everyone
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Feb 7, 2021 00:16
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