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tango alpha delta posted:bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme. No more so than gold or silver or pick your favorite store of value. Trying to estimate each of their values via their inherent usefulness is doomed to failure. The truth is that people just like them a lot so they are worth a lot. If everyone changes their mind, then their value will drop back down to that dictated by their usefulness. But even if that did happen, it wouldn't show that that store of value was a ponzi scheme.
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Feb 5, 2021 19:44
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Gold and Silver are very useful and important in electronics manufacturing, so there's certainly some inherent value.
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Feb 5, 2021 20:03
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CompeAnansi posted:No more so than gold or silver or pick your favorite store of value. Trying to estimate each of their values via their inherent usefulness is doomed to failure. The truth is that people just like them a lot so they are worth a lot. If everyone changes their mind, then their value will drop back down to that dictated by their usefulness. But even if that did happen, it wouldn't show that that store of value was a ponzi scheme. I love it when people burst into the thread to spout their wrong opinions.
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Feb 5, 2021 20:10
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Waltzing Along posted:I love it when people burst into the thread to spout their wrong opinions. It was an impressively stupid statement lol. Precious metals have been accepted as valuable by basically every culture on earth for thousands of years, for a multitude of reasons. Goon: yeah but if they weren't it would be like bitcoin
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Feb 5, 2021 20:14
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To the extent that the spot price above industrial use is dictated by humans liking shining things, then yeaaaaaaaaaahhhhh it could be a "ponzi" if you squint and tilt your head? Like with other speculative bets, and precious metals are definitely a favorite of "the economy is gonna collapse, get gold coins because your feudal overlords will not accept worthless dollars" people, then okay I suppose? The price of the gold index would be driven by market forces that aren't necessarily grounded in fundamentals? Otherwise, the comparison is lacking because bitcoin has value only literally because there's someone who says it has value. The analysis that bitcoin is worth $x applies to literally anything you can think of in the crypto space, which is trivially not true in metals and other commodity stores of value. People will likely value gold even in the post-apocalypse, because gold is shiny. Until we start seeing only in infrared will the "it's shiny!" niche will not be terribly threatened. You can't rely on a brick of shiny metal somehow sustaining you in a world without an economy, but then, nothing else but a shotgun, a case of shells and your wits will in that case.
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Feb 5, 2021 20:29
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Fame Douglas posted:Gold and Silver are very useful and important in electronics manufacturing, so there's certainly some inherent value. Yeah but the only value of the electronics is mining bitcoin. Checkmate.
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Feb 5, 2021 20:30
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CompeAnansi posted:No more so than gold or silver or pick your favorite store of value. Trying to estimate each of their values via their inherent usefulness is doomed to failure. The truth is that people just like them a lot so they are worth a lot. If everyone changes their mind, then their value will drop back down to that dictated by their usefulness. But even if that did happen, it wouldn't show that that store of value was a ponzi scheme. So, you're saying that the Emperor's new clothes really ARE fabulous?
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Feb 5, 2021 20:31
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gold is useful because its easily molded no electricity required, it is easily authenticated and instantly recognizable. Its scarcity is not in question. It exists in physical reality. Bitcoin is useless the second the power goes out lol.
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Feb 5, 2021 20:33
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HugeGrossBurrito posted:gold is useful because its easily molded no electricity required, it is easily authenticated and instantly recognizable. Its scarcity is not in question. It exists in physical reality. Bitcoin is useless the second the power goes out lol. tell that to my cold wallet philistine!!!!
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Feb 5, 2021 20:38
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Fur20 posted:tell that to my cold wallet philistine!!!! getting killed in the wasteland because I typed 1 million bitcoin into a zune and traded it for a goat
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Feb 5, 2021 20:41
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"wait wait let me try the transaction again, " i plead desperately as men with rocks come to violate the NAP and take away the goat
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Feb 5, 2021 20:44
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I still think about how someone, somewhere, fat fingered a lot of bitcoins into a blackhole wallet when trying to conduct a large scale weapon and/or drug trade, and was then killed by very unhappy associates within 24 hours
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Feb 5, 2021 21:01
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HugeGrossBurrito posted:It was an impressively stupid statement lol. Precious metals have been accepted as valuable by basically every culture on earth for thousands of years, for a multitude of reasons. Goon: yeah but if they weren't it would be like bitcoin Our findings: * It would have definitely been useful for a lot of easy and direct things * Most of the money poo poo could have been done fine with silver * Our houses would look like the interior of Trump Tower * Trump himself would poo poo in a silver toilet
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Feb 5, 2021 22:19
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To a certain extent scarcity is attractive in of itself. Aluminum was the world's most valuable metal for a period in the early 19th century because the processes known to get pure quantities was prohibitive. The tip of the Washington Memorial was plated in aluminum. Napoleon III impressed guests with his aluminum flatware. It's...kind of not a really attractive metal? But it is light and strong. So there's that.
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Feb 5, 2021 22:46
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Nessus posted:I had a thought experiment with my roommate on how human history would be different if gold had been abundant enough to get widely used for non-decorative/monetary purposes. We sort of had this in Mesoamerica before the colonizers arrived
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Feb 6, 2021 02:22
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I went to some gold and weapon museum while in Peru, and jesus the stuff they had... Here's my glove made out of gold.  hmmm it's getting cold in here, I need some Wall Cladding... what do we have so much of that I could use it to insulate my whole house....  I think there was some BBC report that like everything in that place was fake gold, but I don't know/care, it looked cool as gently caress
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Feb 6, 2021 02:36
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Why not have the best of both worlds: just build your mining GPU's out of gold, silver and/or platinum? I swear: if only I earned a Satoshi for every time I turned over a stone for you no-coiners, I would have owned all our system's moons by now.
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Feb 6, 2021 03:10
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kw0134 posted:It's...kind of not a really attractive metal? But it is light and strong. So there's that. I remember when apple first started making metal powerbooks they used titanium for like 2 years and then switched to aluminum and both hyped it up in the same way and charged even more for it, and everyone was like WHOA ALUMINUM RULES again for a little bit as if its not the literally disposable stuff soda cans are made of
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Feb 6, 2021 05:56
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Just mine Pegglecoin and contribute to the heat death of the universe.
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Feb 6, 2021 06:10
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d0s posted:I remember when apple first started making metal powerbooks they used titanium for like 2 years and then switched to aluminum and both hyped it up in the same way and charged even more for it, and everyone was like WHOA ALUMINUM RULES again for a little bit as if its not the literally disposable stuff soda cans are made of Was that the contemporary of the G4 iBooks that were all white and tended to cook themselves quite obviously? Or were they after that?
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Feb 6, 2021 06:14
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Hello again, nocoiners of GBS. I greet you warmly. I've been charging up my Bitcoin Spirit Bomb for the past 24 hours, and now I'm ready to utterly annihilate you all with it. Ready? Okay, here we go: ChronoBasher posted:I'll be the first to admit I'm pretty clueless about cryptos; but are you saying the points above wouldn't be applicable to BitCoin? Or other AltCoins? ChronoBasher posted:My point was these are really bad attributes for a currency. If someone gets locked out of thousands of dollars, and has no recourse, that's not good. People are dumb, and they are not going to make backups. But you neglect to make a map or any description of the location for yourself so you could reliably find it later, and end up forgetting where you buried it. You've lost access to that wealth from your own stupidity, and you wouldn't blame the gold for being so difficult to secure. So why would you blame Bitcoin? Yes, people are dumb! And lazy! That said, custodial services like Coinbase, Gemini, and Kraken exist for a reason. Plenty of people don't have the knowledge or even the desire to learn how to securely store or safely send their crypto themselves. These folks should absolutely use those custodial services rather than risking losing everything out of sheer laziness and/or unwillingness to learn. TL;DR: It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools. EorayMel posted:Can you still spend Fame Douglas posted:7 is also a theoretical maximum, it's going to be lower most of the time. kw0134 posted:Also I love the lightning network, the toy system that at its heart declares it's trustless, then explicitly uses a BGP equivalent (a trustful protocol) to figure out routing, because doing a version of the Traveling Salesman problem every single transaction is totally a trivially solvable computational task, right? Check this out, here is what the lightning network makes possible with Bitcoin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bOo3zLFhEk EorayMel posted:I'm still not convinced he has even that, but maybe if his next rereg gets more than four posts showing 12 or more random article URLs I might reconsider it not EorayMel posted:Unrelated tangent: sometimes I sincerely wonder about the thought processes of the people who heard about bitcoin one day and all of a sudden decided that this would be the global financial revolution, or even those people's thoughts on economics or the fundamental concept of money before bitcoin happened. CompeAnansi posted:No more so than gold or silver or pick your favorite store of value. Trying to estimate each of their values via their inherent usefulness is doomed to failure. The truth is that people just like them a lot so they are worth a lot. If everyone changes their mind, then their value will drop back down to that dictated by their usefulness. But even if that did happen, it wouldn't show that that store of value was a ponzi scheme. tango alpha delta posted:hi seraph, another suggestion for you; if you want to really impress people with how amazing bitcoin really is, buy Platinum for everyone in every thread that you post. I'm honestly surprised that this simple act of altruism hasn't occurred to you. kw0134 posted:To the extent that the spot price above industrial use is dictated by humans liking shining things, then yeaaaaaaaaaahhhhh it could be a "ponzi" if you squint and tilt your head? Like with other speculative bets, and precious metals are definitely a favorite of "the economy is gonna collapse, get gold coins because your feudal overlords will not accept worthless dollars" people, then okay I suppose? The price of the gold index would be driven by market forces that aren't necessarily grounded in fundamentals? kw0134 posted:Otherwise, the comparison is lacking because bitcoin has value only literally because there's someone who says it has value. The analysis that bitcoin is worth $x applies to literally anything you can think of in the crypto space, which is trivially not true in metals and other commodity stores of value. While Bitcoin’s open-source software may be forked, its community and network effects cannot. Bitcoin makes trade-offs for core properties that the market deems valuable. Many digital assets have emerged that claim to improve on Bitcoin’s deficiencies. However, to date, none have been able to achieve Bitcoin’s network effects. Bitcoin has qualities that make it valuable, and it makes explicit trade-offs to offer those qualities. While competitors have attempted to improve upon Bitcoin’s limitations (e.g., its limited transaction throughput or its volatility), it has been at the cost of the core properties that make Bitcoin valuable (e.g., perfect scarcity, decentralization, immutability). This explains why Bitcoin continues to dominate in terms of market cap, investors and users, miners and validators, as well as retail and institutional infrastructure and products. As shown in the charts below, bitcoin’s market cap is orders of magnitude higher than the combined market cap of competitors (other proof-of-work digital assets).   While Bitcoin’s software is open-source and may be forked and “improved” upon, its network effects and community of stakeholders (users, miners, validators, developers, service providers) that understand and accept the trade-offs it makes cannot be so easily replicated away. kw0134 posted:People will likely value gold even in the post-apocalypse, because gold is shiny. Until we start seeing only in infrared will the "it's shiny!" niche will not be terribly threatened. You can't rely on a brick of shiny metal somehow sustaining you in a world without an economy, but then, nothing else but a shotgun, a case of shells and your wits will in that case. BigBadSteve posted:Seraph, no offense meant with the following, but it seems pretty clear from everything written by you and about you here that if you ever really do luck onto making money from cryptocurrency, your best investment would not be real estate, but a long course of psychotherapy. HugeGrossBurrito posted:gold is useful because its easily molded no electricity required, it is easily authenticated and instantly recognizable. Its scarcity is not in question. It exists in physical reality. https://www.thegoldanalyst.com/gold/news/fake-gold-bars-found-in-jpmorgans-vaults/455/ https://news.bitcoin.com/83-tons-fake-gold-bars-china-scandal/ To say nothing of the fact that large new sources of gold are still discovered regularly today, and that it's abundant in our solar system in asteroids. Regardless, Bitcoin is going to eat gold's lunch within 5 years. HugeGrossBurrito posted:Bitcoin is useless the second the power goes out lol. Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:oh lol that's even sadder  In other news, Bitcoin is back at 40k! 
Bitcoin King Kai fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Feb 6, 2021 |
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Feb 6, 2021 15:00
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you still don't have a bathroom lol do you just poo poo in a bucket or do you have a second one to brush your teeth with rainwater and snowmelt
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Feb 6, 2021 15:03
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Shumagorath posted:you still don't have a bathroom lol I have a bathroom.
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Feb 6, 2021 15:05
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Lmao buttcoin
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Feb 6, 2021 15:07
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Mood: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRyLC2M1K2w
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Feb 6, 2021 15:14
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serf post your bathroom with the current BTC price written in lipstick on the mirror tile acceptable if you have no mirror
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Feb 6, 2021 15:36
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Shumagorath posted:serf post your bathroom with the current BTC price written in lipstick on the mirror
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Feb 6, 2021 15:38
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Bitcoin King Kai posted:Hello again, nocoiners of GBS. I greet you warmly. I bid you dark greetings.
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Feb 6, 2021 15:46
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Did anyone even read that post
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Feb 6, 2021 16:39
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My eyes slid right off it, probably in self-defense.
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Feb 6, 2021 16:53
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xtal posted:Did anyone even read that post No.
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Feb 6, 2021 16:54
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Seraph makes the same idiotic points that explain why the USD won't be displaced when people ask why buttcoins can't be replaced by anything else. Any other noise about "open source" is also meaningless in light of the fact that all that means is the changes create hard forks that don't thrive when the actual power brokers (the miners) refuse to accept any change that diminishes their own position. "There's only one bitcoin" is among the most laughable statements out there. All the other bitcoin derivatives don't exist, and Clan MacDonald is thus claiming that Clan Sutherland are Not True Scotsmen.
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Feb 6, 2021 17:21
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No True Cryptocurrency
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Feb 6, 2021 17:51
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There are a lot of derivatives of Michael Jackson but only one Michael Jackson. Well, bad example, it's a common name.
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Feb 6, 2021 17:52
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Except that the bitcoin forks were literally bitcoin but a few modifications. Since that meant shifting power from the miners, that was obviously no good. It's like if Michael Jackson was actually cloned and they took out his pederasty but his handlers liked him better as a pederast and so the less offensive version got thrown into a dumpster.
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Feb 6, 2021 18:03
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kw0134 posted:Except that the bitcoin forks were literally bitcoin but a few modifications. Since that meant shifting power from the miners, that was obviously no good. It's like if Michael Jackson was actually cloned and they took out his pederasty but his handlers liked him better as a pederast and so the less offensive version got thrown into a dumpster. I should have realized this, since Michael Jackson was just a fork of The Jackson 5.
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Feb 6, 2021 18:05
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lol, i'm not reading any of that post. it's obvious seraph is full of poo poo. bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme. e:it doesn't matter how big bitcoin gets because I will never, ever touch it for the simple reason that I have absolutely no interest in downloading the CP that's ACTUALLY PART OF THE LEDGER. tango alpha delta fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Feb 6, 2021 |
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Feb 6, 2021 18:31
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xtal posted:There are a lot of derivatives of Michael Jackson but only one Michael Jackson. Well, bad example, it's a common name. Look up how many Donald Trump's are in the US. And it's not just TRumpgf and TRumpt JR http://howmanyofme.com/search/ reminds me that Michael Douglas has played batman or like 80% of the people with the lastname Dutroux or whatever in one of those Europeon Bog Lands (where they let known multiple child rapists go, after like 2 weeks and they build a dungeon that would make an austrian proud ) filed to change their lastname after his horrible mycrimes.txt came out (his confessions and being a prime watched suspect for a year...) dont read about him or you'll want to go out on a pedophile killing spree and no one would fault you --- but thats more for the the Epstein/Ghislaine thread in c-spam; where (i'm catching up a 100 pages behind) - C-Spam believes that Epstein/Maxwell are Satoshi after a mysterious $1 billion dollar transfer of bitcoin happened just after her arrest... and she literally controlled the Reddit Mind Hive and Narrative and posted about pedofelia being good or some similiar dispicable poo poo which is just a normal bitcoiners thing 
Hirez fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Feb 6, 2021 |
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Feb 6, 2021 18:33
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tango alpha delta posted:lol, i'm not reading any of that post. it's obvious seraph is full of poo poo. People defending Ponzi schemes: How can it be a Ponzi scheme if people make money in it
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Feb 6, 2021 18:34
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I mean why shouldn't people be awarded millions of dollars for leaving their computers running for a long time back in 2011?
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Feb 6, 2021 18:46
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