UKMT February 2021 - No deal is better than a Baddiel

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT February 2021 - No deal is better than a Baddiel

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Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

WhatEvil posted:

I'm not saying Starmer is an op but if you were in MI5 trying to uphold power for the establishment, and Starmer was your man, what would you have him do differently?

I'm struggling to think of anything.

I mean, I'd rather get my literal man in the office than just a moron like Boris who is absolutely on side and completely pliable, but such a bumbling oaf that he could easily gently caress something up and get our agents in Iran executed or something.

e; 31 is like card game 21 but... your target is 31.

Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Feb 5, 2021

# ? Feb 5, 2021 23:22

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 24, 2024 16:37

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

BalloonFish posted:

I thought that, at worst he'd be another Ed Miliband in terms of policy, and that I'd probably end up thinking "It's annoying how far to the right he's gone but before Corbyn I'd probably be all over this platform since I had never known anything better!"

But he's not only worse from a policy perspective (judging from the few times when he has actually stated a position on something) but he's just useless at even playing the political game. Worse than JC, and he wasn't very good at it and had the entire media out to get him.

Totally agree. I thought JC didn�t play the political game very well and that at least Starmer would do that. He doesn�t, and his policies (or lack thereof) are worse. What a disappointment.

# ? Feb 5, 2021 23:36

Dogatron: Jun 24, 2020

Guavanaut posted:

That's the problem with broad 'race' based analyses, you call sickle cell a 'black' condition and you end up misdiagnosing Turks, Greeks, and other non-Africans with it, and wasting time running tests on Zulus who are less likely to have sickle cell than an average person picked from the street in Carmarthen.

Unless you know that the vast majority of your black presenting population is from the Congo or Niger delta region (as it is in Jamaica and the American South for reasons) you're better off asking what language they speak at home than going by skin melanation.

I ended up in an office with a manager from HR for saying non white. I am not going to provide a detailed description of the history of colonialism, slavery and its geography when explaining why you should be careful about putting on pneumatic tourniquets.

# ? Feb 5, 2021 23:37

CoolCab: Apr 17, 2005; glem

honestly he's performed about as i expected - his role is to act as ablative armour for all the unpopular things the labour right thinks are necessary, for the next candidate to be the compromise/unity offering.

# ? Feb 5, 2021 23:38

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Pistol_Pete posted:

Re: Starmer, I just read a Marina Hyde article (yeah, I know) where she plausibly argues that, much as we tell our GP that we only drink 14 units a week (then get shitfaced), we tell pollsters that we want bland, managerial, centrist politicians (then go out and vote for energetic politicians who'll do fun, exciting stuff and keep us entertained). Starmer's incessant avoidance of risk bores the electorate to death and he'd honestly do better if he found a few good controversies and leapt into them with his fists swinging.

Someone find Kieth a field to run through!

# ? Feb 5, 2021 23:51

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

Guavanaut posted:

That's the problem with broad 'race' based analyses, you call sickle cell a 'black' condition and you end up misdiagnosing Turks, Greeks, and other non-Africans with it, and wasting time running tests on Zulus who are less likely to have sickle cell than an average person picked from the street in Carmarthen.

Unless you know that the vast majority of your black presenting population is from the Congo or Niger delta region (as it is in Jamaica and the American South for reasons) you're better off asking what language they speak at home than going by skin melanation.

Isn't screening for sickle trait just part of a routine blood panel for newborns anyway? Like, I don't think there's any time being wasted here, mothers and babies get screened for a lot of things that they may or may not have.

And even if testing for variant hemoglobin was some onerous or expensive thing, you could still just have a decision-tree that started with a spectrophotometer and it would be a pretty ok first-pass filter. Like, race is fake and everything, but the one thing it's good at is broadly sifting people into buckets of slightly increased propensity to certain phenotypic traits. The problem then is that people go down a slippery slope of haplogroups and blood quanta and next thing you know you're James Watson and you don't get invited to any of the nice luncheons anymore and even if you do they make you sit next to Prince Philip

# ? Feb 5, 2021 23:57

Vitamin P: Nov 19, 2013; Truth is game rigging is more difficult than it looks pls stay ded

Borrovan posted:

Kieth's political beliefs are literally whatever he thinks will make people like him at the time. Hence why no fucker likes him.

Anyone claiming to know what his actual, private beliefs are is clearly beholden to far more information about him than the general public.

He's pure obedience doctrine, which isn't a thing but I'm gonna try and make a thing.

It's complete obedience to whatever the power structure demands of him at the time, which is obviously neoliberalism-with-racist-characteristics in the grand sense but moment to moment Keith will absolutely do a cringe photo taking a knee when BLM are briefly powerful, he'll absolutely lie about being lefty to the membership for a leadership election, he'll absolutely be the biggest Remain guy when that's an emotive wedge issue, he'll absolutely declare hard Leave is fine actually when emotive wedge issues no longer benefit him, he's functionally a sort of jellyfish.

# ? Feb 5, 2021 23:59

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

Dogatron posted:

I ended up in an office with a manager from HR for saying non white. I am not going to provide a detailed description of the history of colonialism, slavery and its geography when explaining why you should be careful about putting on pneumatic tourniquets.

How did it pan out (the meeting)? Did the manager understand about the sickle cell anaemia?

# ? Feb 6, 2021 00:13

Inexplicable Humblebrag: Sep 20, 2003

the loving toblerone fudge is out of stock already you absolute swine

# ? Feb 6, 2021 00:18

Nutapii: Jun 24, 2020

Kinda hoping this whole Handforth parish council zoom results in more centralisation of power. Far too many incentives for absolute fuckwits to get involved in spending public money, and inefficient planning and duplication of admin when the villages of Winifred-on-Tidley have a retired accountant who thinks benches and pedestrianisation add to shops; compared to Winifredtidleyside who are led by a retired quantity surveyor whose concerns are around making sure traffic flows neatly; with the resultant spend on custom signs from the taxpayers of cities where things happen; and equally hosed traffic/shopping for everyone else within 30 miles.

Guavanaut posted:

That's the problem with broad 'race' based analyses, you call sickle cell a 'black' condition and you end up misdiagnosing Turks, Greeks, and other non-Africans with it, and wasting time running tests on Zulus who are less likely to have sickle cell than an average person picked from the street in Carmarthen.

Unless you know that the vast majority of your black presenting population is from the Congo or Niger delta region (as it is in Jamaica and the American South for reasons) you're better off asking what language they speak at home than going by skin melanation.

Surely "he's black, so double check" rather than going "well technically we don't know his genetics are linked to two of the more populous regions for people of that colour so don't ask at all" is gonna end up in more racially discriminatory results, like that whole "Oh I don't see colour" thing.

Nutapii fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Feb 6, 2021

# ? Feb 6, 2021 00:19

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

Nutapii posted:

Kinda hoping this whole Handforth parish council zoom results in more centralisation of power. Far too many incentives for absolute fuckwits to get involved in spending public money, and inefficient planning and duplication of admin when the villages of Winifred-on-Tidley have a retired accountant who thinks benches and pedestrianisation add to shops; compared to Winifredtidleyside who are led by a retired quantity surveyor whose concerns are around making sure traffic flows neatly; with the resultant spend on custom signs from the taxpayers of cities where things happen; and equally hosed traffic/shopping for everyone else within 30 miles.

Surely "he's non-white, so double check" rather than going "well technically we don't know his genetics are linked to two of the more populous regions for people of that colour so don't ask at all" is gonna end up in more racially discriminatory results, like that whole "Oh I don't see colour" thing.

I think the point was that people of Mediterranean descent can also get sickle-cell at a much higher rate than northern Europeans and making skin colour your only criteria for testing for sickle-cell in a situation where someone with the disease is likely to have a severe adverse effect means you risk missing people. TBH I'd have thought it'd be safer to test *everyone* in that situation, it's not like it's a massively difficult or expensive test and very occasionally random mutations can make the palest Viking-looking person suffer from it too.

Actually, I wonder if the massive mechanisation of blood testing might be part of the problem here? Sickle-cell is obvious at a glance in a microscope, but almost all routine blood tests now are entirely automated - does the machine doing, say, a blood count actually notice if the red blood cells are misshapen?

# ? Feb 6, 2021 00:32

Nutapii: Jun 24, 2020

goddamnedtwisto posted:

I think the point was that people of Mediterranean descent can also get sickle-cell at a much higher rate than northern Europeans

Balls, I'd changed it to black as I thought I'd got it the wrong way round and defining people by what they're not is a bit lovely.

# ? Feb 6, 2021 00:44

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

The EU banned bendy bananas and bendy erythrocytes, post-Brexit everyone's free to get sickle cell. Bonus: preparedness for when malaria comes back into fashion in the British Isles in 20 years

# ? Feb 6, 2021 00:46

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:

the loving toblerone fudge is out of stock already you absolute swine

that was me as revenge for giving me this av

# ? Feb 6, 2021 01:00

Doctor_Fruitbat: Jun 2, 2013

I bought extra, sorry not sorry.

# ? Feb 6, 2021 01:07

TACD: Oct 27, 2000

Dead keen on fudge but can I ask which ones are / are not gluten free again?

# ? Feb 6, 2021 01:22

No Dignity: Oct 15, 2007

Where is this link to the goon crafted fudge?

# ? Feb 6, 2021 01:23

Maugrim: Feb 16, 2011; I eat your face

https://www.fudjit.co.uk

# ? Feb 6, 2021 01:26

TACD: Oct 27, 2000

Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:

the loving toblerone fudge is out of stock already you absolute swine

motherfucker

# ? Feb 6, 2021 01:27

The Perfect Element: Dec 5, 2005; "This is a bit of a... a poof song"

Looks like most of the Toblerone fudge sales were to bots and scalpers, unfortunately. On ebay packs are going for three or four times the original retail price. Camrath should do more to stop this kind of thing. Shame!!

# ? Feb 6, 2021 01:39

stev: Jan 22, 2013; Please be excited.

The Perfect Element posted:

Looks like most of the Toblerone fudge sales were to bots and scalpers, unfortunately. On ebay packs are going for three or four times the original retail price. Camrath should do more to stop this kind of thing. Shame!!

Give verified Fudge+ subscribers priority on pre-orders!

# ? Feb 6, 2021 01:40

No Dignity: Oct 15, 2007

Maugrim posted:

https://www.fudjit.co.uk

Thank you. I bought some fudge

# ? Feb 6, 2021 01:42

Camrath: Mar 19, 2004; The UKMT Fudge Baron

The Toblerone has certainly been a fast seller- well, all of it has, but that one in particular!

I�m planning the batches for next week, so it looks like we�re going to have some more Toblerone, vegan oreo and one tbc.

TACD posted:

Dead keen on fudge but can I ask which ones are / are not gluten free again?

So most of them are gluten free- however the kitchen is a domestic one where I also cook gluten containing stuff. I follow good hygiene procedure, but I can�t guarantee a lack of traces.

It�s really only the ones containing biscuit in some form that have gluten as an ingredient.

Camrath fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Feb 6, 2021

# ? Feb 6, 2021 03:08

Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

You, plebeian classes: I cannot get the fudge I want

Me, Matrician: I ordered a bunch of fudge just now no problem, because I do not like gross things :agesilaus:

# ? Feb 6, 2021 05:23

Bobby Deluxe: May 9, 2004

Darth Walrus posted:

The whiskey and ginger was excellent, so I'd like to see that making a comeback, and I deeply regret never trying the Irish cream.

Yeah same here, I was halfway through a house move and skint. Generic Irish Cream Brand™ fudge sounds amazing.

As does toblerone fudge you absolute bastards.

Bloodly posted:

Hm? I didn't realize 'quiz' was somehow a poor word?

woke: quiz as a noun
broke: quiz as a verb
bespoke: quiz as an adjective

# ? Feb 6, 2021 05:26

Bobby Deluxe: May 9, 2004

too much coke: i identify as a quiz

# ? Feb 6, 2021 05:27

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

I can't stand baileys because it tastes like licking a chemical spill but there was this very nice cream that the penderyn distillery did called merlyn, I think, bought it as a gift one year and it was surprisingly good.

# ? Feb 6, 2021 05:31

Pistol_Pete: Sep 15, 2007; Oven Wrangler

The media seem to be rapidly turning against Starmer. I wonder if it's related to my previous post where he's just too boring for them to get any good stories out of and they want someone more interesting in charge? Here's a headline story in The Times today:

The Times posted:

Knives sharpen for Keir Starmer after a bruising week

He may be regarded as one of the most reviled men in Britain, but Piers Morgan seems to have greater appeal among lapsed Labour voters than Sir Keir Starmer.

That, at least, is the fear that has taken hold among members of the leader�s top team. Their efforts to win back voters in Red Wall seats, who deserted Labour at the last election, are not bearing fruit.

�Even Piers Morgan has more traction with these voters to criticise this government than we do,� a Labour source said. �Our problem is that the public wants Boris Johnson to do well. They think he�s had a really bad hand and they want him to succeed. We haven�t got permission to be in the room.�

Starmer set the tone of his leadership early last year when he warned that Labour had �a mountain to climb� to regain power. �We�re not up the mountain,� the source said. �We�re not even at the difficult point yet, where you�re huffing and puffing and feel like your heart is going to explode. The voters that we need to win back didn�t leave us overnight.�

Starmer, 58, has had a bruising week. The leak of an internal memo urging the party to make more use of the Union Jack and the emergence of an old video in which Starmer expresses support for republicanism put Labour spin doctors on the defensive.

Then, while watching the video of prime minister�s questions in his office on Wednesday, Starmer realised he had made a mistake. He had caused uproar by telling the prime minister that �the truth escapes him� and confronting him after the session to set the record straight. However, Johnson had accused him not, as he thought, of wanting to join the EU�s vaccination programme but the EU�s medicines regulator, which Labour did support in 2017. Starmer�s office had to issue a hasty retraction.

Meanwhile the leader�s office has had to deal with murmurs among senior Labour MPs who are concerned that Starmer�s risk-averse, carefully managed approach and moderate politics risk turning him into �continuity Ed Miliband�.

�There�s something missing,� one MP said. �We�re not in the relegation zone anymore, but equally we�re not ahead of the Tories in the polls and given the mess they�re in, we ought to be. Even Ed Miliband was constantly eight or nine points ahead of David Cameron � and look where that ended up.�

Another senior MP said Starmer was too afraid to stray into less familiar territory and lay out a vision that sets him apart from his predecessors, especially on the economy. �Investing in public services, supporting the NHS and attacking the Tories on universal credit � these are all important, but they are also our comfort zone,� the MP said. �In their heart many people still think we are an anti-business party. Keir and Anneliese [Dodds, the shadow chancellor] need to be saying that we will strain every fibre to support enterprise.�

Labour�s strategy since April has been driven by two principles: to provide a �constructive opposition� that does not attack the government merely for the sake of it, and to introduce Starmer to voters.

This has left little room for others to shine. Angela Rayner, his deputy, has been tasked with internal party reform and kept out of the limelight, despite the fact she is seen by many as possessing the �star quality� that the leader lacks.

Among frontbenchers there is frustration that the leader�s office only allows a handful of trusted lieutenants, such as Wes Streeting, shadow education minister, and Rachel Reeves, the shadow Cabinet Office minister, on to the airwaves.

Some see the May 6 local elections as a key test of Starmer�s leadership. �They�re the last set of national elections before the general election. They will be a temperature check about voting intentions and the Labour Party,� one MP said.

The party is braced for Tory victories in strategically important contests, including the Tees Valley mayoralty, where Ben Houchen is expected to win a landslide.

Starmer�s allies insist the progress he has made since spring is enormous, but that shaking off the toxicity of the Corbyn years will take more time. �People don�t understand just how big the challenge is,� one said.

Another insisted that merely not being written off by the public represented a big achievement compared with his predecessors. �We have not had a leader who�s not been blown up on the beach within three months since Tony Blair,� they said.

Starmer�s office points to the party�s fortunes in the polls. Labour was 24 points behind in April, but is now neck and neck with the Tories. Starmer has the highest satisfaction ratings of any opposition leader since Blair. He has levelled with � and at times overtaken � Johnson on the question of who would make the best prime minister. �It�s been a while since Labour has had a leader who passes the test of whether the British public imagine him or her as the prime minister of this country,� one source said.

Party strategists seem to have taken heed of a memo that was leaked last week suggesting they needed to project a sense of patriotism. A public broadcast on Monday saw Starmer address voters in front of a Union Jack.

The approach is being criticised by some internally who argue there is a risk of appearing contrived and jingoistic. Party officials believe a member of the community organising unit, which was formed under Corbyn and is set to be disbanded later this year, was responsible for the leak, and for a quote likening the themes of the presentation to the storming of the Capitol in Washington last month.

In Starmer�s orbit there is a sense of exasperation that what they see as basic elements of patriotism, which they regard as essential to regaining the trust of voters, are being questioned by a segment of the party. �Trust people on the left to over-intellectualise our bloody flag,� one ally lamented.

Lord Mandelson, the architect of New Labour, said: �Surely you have to love a country if you want to lead it. It is extraordinary that Labour even has to say this to reassure people, but that�s the legacy Starmer took from Corbyn, and I am glad he is doing the rebuilding.�

Received opinion is that Sir Keir Starmer had a shocker this week (Quentin Letts writes). He told a laughable whopper at PMQs and then there were handbags in the Commons lobby. But at least he is being talked about. This, comrades, is progress.

In parliament the Labour leader is the antonym of a moth to the flame. He courts obscurity. When a snappy soundbite is required, �Suhkeer� produces legalese. Where low vulgarity might catch the mood, he lays down oatmeal dullness by the yard. In the press gallery we blunt nibs gather after PMQs most weeks to scour our notebooks in search of something quotable from him.

And on Wednesday there it was, a story. After the PM accused him of having called for Britain to rejoin the European Medicines Agency, Starmer snorted: �Complete nonsense � the truth escapes him!� It almost had a ring of Aeschylus to it. Except Starmer was wrong. Oops.

To be trapped in a fib by so nonchalant a fabulist must have stung. Starmer claimed to have �misheard� the prime minister. But does this saga tell us something about his character and leadership operation? Is he wargaming lines of attack? Does anyone in his office ask him difficult questions?

It was six hours before his office released a tortuous explanation. His admission that he �made a mistake in his response� was preceded by several lines of qualification. The apology should have been swifter, shorter and had an ounce of self-teasing. Alas, he does not do humour.

On Thursday morning Labour frontbenchers went doggo. Media blackout. Eventually Starmer did a clip for TV. He was wearing a mask that muffled his words. Images tell a thousand words and these screamed cover-up.

Presentational bungles are minor beside electoral strategy. The medicines agency to-do was sensitive because it was linked to vaccines, which have been a success for the government. Starmer has struggled to approach the story. His gut reaction was resentful: demand priority jabs for teachers and merely praise �our NHS�. Labour is anguished by the thought of not being able to play its traditional �Tories threaten the NHS� card.

What about patriotism? Advisers suggest he embrace the flag to impress lost working-class voters. It will only work if it is authentic. Up popped a clip of a younger Starmer talking of scrapping the monarchy. Time to rip off that mask, smile and sing Things Can Only Get Better.

They're not calling him "hapless" yet but I think it's only a matter of time...

# ? Feb 6, 2021 08:24

Dabir: Nov 10, 2012

speedrunning Nicola Murray's career trajectory

# ? Feb 6, 2021 08:34

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1357826641758744576?s=20

Boris has finally saved the union, by sending the Queen's totally forgotten 3rd son to live in Scotland.

# ? Feb 6, 2021 08:41

Noxville: Dec 7, 2003

Pistol_Pete posted:

�Our problem is that the public wants Boris Johnson to do well. They think he�s had a really bad hand and they want him to succeed. We haven�t got permission to be in the room.�

loving tell they still don�t get that the reason the public hasn�t turned on Boris is because nobody spent time hitting him on all the catastrophic fuckups last year that resulted in 100,000 dead! Stupid poo poo party, gently caress Labour.

# ? Feb 6, 2021 09:11

CGI Stardust: Nov 7, 2010; Brexit is but a door,
election time is but a window.

I'll be back

Pistol_Pete posted:

Starmer�s allies insist the progress he has made since spring is enormous, but that shaking off the toxicity of the Corbyn years will take more time. �People don�t understand just how big the challenge is,� one said.

Another insisted that merely not being written off by the public represented a big achievement compared with his predecessors. �We have not had a leader who�s not been blown up on the beach within three months since Tony Blair,� they said

[quickly shoving 2017 under the bed so no-one can see it] aaah no! not The Toxicity Of The Corbyn Years! anything but that!

quote:

In Starmer�s orbit there is a sense of exasperation that what they see as basic elements of patriotism, which they regard as essential to regaining the trust of voters, are being questioned by a segment of the party. �Trust people on the left to over-intellectualise our bloody flag,� one ally lamented.

Lord Mandelson, the architect of New Labour, said: �Surely you have to love a country if you want to lead it. It is extraordinary that Labour even has to say this to reassure people, but that�s the legacy Starmer took from Corbyn, and I am glad he is doing the rebuilding.�

the general public are going to forensically examine the flag with a blacklight to make absolutely sure that Starmer both hosed and cummed in it; this is a basic element of patriotism

what an absolute shower

CGI Stardust fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Feb 6, 2021

# ? Feb 6, 2021 09:44

peanut-: Feb 17, 2004; Fun Shoe

You've quoted the wrong Times editorial, the more telling one is this one outlining what Starmer needs to do to win full-throated approval from the press

quote:

Voters will never warm to timid Keir Starmer

I�ve sacked my publisher,� says Jeffrey Bernard in Keith Waterhouse�s play about the hard-drinking columnist, �I told her one of us has to be sober, and it isn�t going to be me.� Watching the Labour leadership, a feeling dawns that somebody is going to have to reach out to the wider nation, and it isn�t going to be Sir Keir.

This week, cack-handed suggestions that the Labour leader might spearhead a drive to present his party as �patriotic� only underlined the image problem such a move was meant to remedy. But leaked mission statements do not fulfil the mission. One bold move by a party leader is worth a hundred strategy documents. For example: how about Starmer�s stating an obvious truth that even most Tories shrink from? That in the distribution of vaccine stocks, our government�s first responsibility is to its own citizens. The rest of our continent and the world come second. A British prime minister should be trying to cool the row with the EU, so Boris Johnson can�t say that. An opposition leader can.

But he won�t. This column is not about vaccine stocks but about why you just know Starmer is not going to do the other things that a bold, forward and inquisitive opposition leader would sniff out as proof of a party�s nose for what the voters crave.

Last month on this page I described a nagging sense that the leader of the opposition was struggling to get out of second gear. His silly spat with the prime minister on Wednesday only heightens the suspicion that an interrogative Commons style that was at first labelled �forensic� and now begins to look like �peevish�, adds to worries that Starmer stays in second gear because he doesn�t have any more gears. His gritty facing down of his party�s Corbynite left impressed most of us, and he�s right to confront a minority of his party and show he�s not afraid. But the ultras to his left will surely be vanquished: he can and will meet this challenge, as did the early Tony Blair. That is first and second gear work. Next he�ll need the overdrive, the inspiration. Blair (and sometimes Neil Kinnock) had it. Does Starmer?

I recognise Labour�s aversion to acknowledging Blair, who irritated the hell out of Tory tribalists like me and infuriated hard-core Labour; but the former prime minister�s achievement in dragging a whole party out of the shadows and into the sunlight of broad public approval has to be the outstanding example of a rescue mission. So let�s look at the equivalent gestures an opposition leader in Starmer�s shoes today should consider: the aim being to rekindle his party�s relationship with the wider public. As you read, it will occur to you why Starmer won�t be going there, but hold your horses: I�ll come to that.

Take that �patriotism� rebrand. The moment it was leaked, Starmer drew in his horns and denied it was policy. Nervous back-pedalling can be almost a reflex with him. He should instead have doubled down, scorning shouts of �jingoism� from a few on his own side. Or take some other news this week: the death of Captain Sir Tom Moore. Johnson missed, and Starmer could have seized, the chance to say there were two heroes here. Captain Tom, of course � but also the great British public, whose warm heart and open generosity were what catapulted Moore to national attention in the first place. The Zimmer-frame walkathon was his, and good for him. The millions raised were from his fellow-citizens. Three cheers for them too.

Or another news item, revealed by The Times: Len McCluskey�s brush with construction-industry corruption on Merseyside. Why not speak out � risk a lawsuit, risk trade union wrath? The public would take Starmer�s side: just as they would have done last year if he had openly criticised teachers� unions� foot-dragging on a return to the classroom. He could be audacious too, on the behemoths of the British state; on nonsense about racial awareness-training for Covid taskforce volunteers, about the culture of �gov-dot-uk-says-no�. He could be the friend of the Deliveroo scooterman, the Uber driver who actually prefers a zero-hours contract, the new self-employed. He could complain not about free enterprise but the strangling of competition. There are issues here he could make common cause with the Lib Dems about, transcending the tribalism that voters detest. Voters (not his party) would like that.

There�s so much to be said about Edmund Burke�s small platoons, about liberty, about the British spirit of voluntarism and our open wallets when it isn�t for the taxman, about the power of the individual acting as free agent � and the contrast with corporate Tory fat cats, the City, greed and cronyism. Coming from a Labour leader, some of this would shock; draw fire from Starmer�s left; frighten the trade union horses. But if only he could see this, the surprise would help his wider purpose of making friends with 21st-century Britain. In a party leader struggling to be noticed, surprise is good. Alas, you could have coded a StarmerBot based on his first weeks as leader and it would have pretty much mapped the path Sir Keir has followed.

And I�m afraid there�s a reason beyond this particular man�s innate timidity and instinct to niggle and juggle rather than trumpet. The reason lies in what the Labour Party, in its very essence, to its very core, actually is.

Labour�s roots, structure, machinery, entire history, pit it against getting behind most of the surprises I�ve mentioned. Take the National Executive Committee. Arcane and remote, a grey monolithic mystery to most voters, the NEC�s whole historic purpose is in part to exercise a dead hand over the self-confidence of purposeful individual politicians. It�s the repository of the party�s long-term institutional memory: their inheritance. The primacy of the collective, the concept of Labour as a �movement�, is what has animated their century-old struggles.

�You don�t get me, I�m part of the union� is the song in the party�s heart � what gets them out of bed in the morning. This is a party not just led by Starmer but which has in part created him.

Blair was never that. So he cracked the whip for a while, and you can ride a zebra � for a while. But in the end it will throw you off, because it is a zebra.

So to return to where I started: one of us � modern Britain or a British Labour Party � is going to shape opposition politics for the years ahead. And it isn�t going to be Starmer�s Labour Party.

All Kieth needs to do is publicly poo poo on teachers for not wanting death and to embrace the notion that Uber Drivers Like Their Job Actually and the great British public will become big fans.

tbf I doubt he'd have any problem doing either of those.

# ? Feb 6, 2021 09:51

Beefeater1980: Sep 12, 2008; My God, it's full of Horatios!

Late to Battle of France chat, but anyone who hasn�t read it already might be interested to try Blitzed, which is a fascinating description of how the Germans were high as kites on methadone as a matter of military �medical� policy (because it let them keep going) in 1940, and ended up going cold turkey out on the eastern front.

# ? Feb 6, 2021 09:59

Biggus Dickus: May 18, 2005; Roadies know where to focus the spotlight.

Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:

the loving toblerone fudge is out of stock already you absolute swine

Having to make do with double Dark Chocolate. Thanks, Antifa.

# ? Feb 6, 2021 10:06

Marmaduke!: May 19, 2009; Why would it do that!?

That second Times article has one thing in favour of 'suhkeef', it shows that as bad as he is now, he would he so much worse if he really listens to our godamnned atrocious media. I like the part that they mention that a successful party is one that is targeting minorities though, oddly honest. Also didn't know he was 58, looking forward to him ageing rapidly between now and the election (or more likely, his replacement).

OwlFancier posted:

I can't stand baileys because it tastes like licking a chemical spill but there was this very nice cream that the penderyn distillery did called merlyn, I think, bought it as a gift one year and it was surprisingly good.

I actually added a bottle of Merlyn to my tesco order yesterday, if it's rubbish I'm blaming you.

# ? Feb 6, 2021 10:08

crispix: Mar 28, 2015; Grand-Maman m'a raconté
_{(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)}

Hello, dear

I really expected Keir when he won the leadership to be sort of milquetoast poo poo - I knew very little about him. I had no idea he was such an utter cretin and would be so spectacularly, actively poo poo lol :/

# ? Feb 6, 2021 10:20

Maugrim: Feb 16, 2011; I eat your face

Marmaduke! posted:

That second Times article has one thing in favour of 'suhkeef', it shows that as bad as he is now, he would he so much worse if he really listens to our godamnned atrocious media. I like the part that they mention that a successful party is one that is targeting minorities though, oddly honest. Also didn't know he was 58, looking forward to him ageing rapidly between now and the election (or more likely, his replacement).

I actually added a bottle of Merlyn to my tesco order yesterday, if it's rubbish I'm blaming you.

It's very nice, not quite as sweet and cloying as Baileys. But do keep it in the fridge as it can go off, which I've never known Baileys to do.

# ? Feb 6, 2021 10:31

justcola: May 22, 2004; La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo

seems like there's a few articles about how boring Keir is

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/05/britons-drama-keir-starmer-labour-leader-competence

quote:

Like all desperate thrill-seekers in this interminable lockdown, I was momentarily stirred to hear there were some handbags between Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer in one of parliament�s corridors after prime minister�s questions on Wednesday. Yes! Action! I briefly imagined the lightning exchange of cash bets as watching MPs behaved much like the hyped-up midnight crowd in one of those underground Chinese insect-fighting contests.

...

All of which brings us to the question: where is the British public at with Keir Starmer? Speaking for myself, I would say that I definitely get he can give sober and detailed university lectures in archaeology. But what most of the movie needs to be, if enough people are going to watch it, is him successfully outrunning a massive boulder hurtling down the tunnel after him. Can he outrun a boulder?

As always in the Labour party, any leading man � it�s always a man � has to deal with a lot of poison darts being blown at them by their own side. Thus this week there has been much ranting that Starmer�s Labour is planning to do one of those many political phrases I never understand, and �wrap itself in the flag�. I�d rather it attached itself to some jump leads, but there you go.

etc.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55943661

quote:

In her 2018 book the New Working Class, Claire Ainsley had warned politicians that while "policies do matter" they "should be viewed in the context of what the party or candidate stands for".

And there were important activities parties would have to embrace if they were to reconnect with voters who were feeling overlooked, or felt distant from them.

She advised that while "engaging in a discussion about morals, values and attitudes is uncomfortable territory for many politicians", it is "becoming increasingly essential".

She is now Sir Keir Starmer's policy chief.

'Brains trust'

But stressing the need to emphasise values over individual policies does not mean that a search for ideas is off the agenda.

In fact, work is going on beneath the radar on the offer Labour might make to the electorate in three or four years time.

Ainsley and shadow cabinet office minister Rachel Reeves have convened a kind of "brains trust" - or "a community of thinkers"- to discuss how the party might approach the challenges of the future.
Starmer's direction

In findings from focus groups commissioned last summer by Labour - and leaked this week to the Guardian - some respondents had talked about the party "sitting on the fence", or being "too quiet".

Starmer himself seems to have been viewed positively, but the need for a defining story seems pressing.

So far the think tank sessions seem to have been discursive rather than definitive.

One invitee wasn't even sure if a minute of the meetings was being kept.

In Ainsley's book she sets out what she sees as the key values which would chime with not just an increasingly diverse working-class but voters more generally: "family"; "fairness"; "hard work"; "decency".

But it seems this new forum has not yet been specifically asked to come out with the kind of policies which would symbolise each of these and connect Labour, under its new leadership, to the party in voters' minds.

And there is an elephant in the virtual room.

Some of those happy to help develop policy and exchange ideas are not yet clear on where Starmer wishes to take his party.

and so on. I like the idea that journalists all sat together at some point this week and decided to run stories about how boring Keir Starmer is after he said he wanted to gently caress the flag and argued with Boris Johnson partway through PMQs. I reckon, like May, he'll stick around for a while yet. The whole thing is hosed anyway, this pandemic is a disaster and all the opposition leader is known for is how boring and poo poo he is, yet all the centrist wankers were pretty much begging for someone like this to take over Labour.

How's the NIP doing anyway?

# ? Feb 6, 2021 10:32

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# ? May 24, 2024 16:37

knox_harrington: Feb 18, 2011; Running no point.

Dogatron posted:

I ended up in an office with a manager from HR for saying non white. I am not going to provide a detailed description of the history of colonialism, slavery and its geography when explaining why you should be careful about putting on pneumatic tourniquets.

You can probably point to a much more broad-brush use of race in the eGFR of any U&E test. It's still clinically useful though.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2028243

(when it was crucial to know kidney function at the institution I worked at we directly measured it with the radiolabelled EDTA method - very simple. I still have to get hospitals to directly measure kidney function sometimes and the US places have never heard of that, they measure 24 hours of piss)

Guavanaut posted:

Unless you know that the vast majority of your black presenting population is from the Congo or Niger delta region (as it is in Jamaica and the American South for reasons) you're better off asking what language they speak at home than going by skin melanation.

Aaah... What language do people in the American South speak at home? I don't think this is going to be any better.

knox_harrington fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Feb 6, 2021

# ? Feb 6, 2021 10:33

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT February 2021 - No deal is better than a Baddiel

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