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It’s getting late and I can’t be bothered to bloom extra yeast and wait for it to rise again, especially since I need about an hour for it to proof after I shape them anyway. I wish I took pictures to see if it grew or not. YOLO I guess.
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Feb 6, 2021 02:04
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Boris Galerkin posted:It’s getting late and I can’t be bothered to bloom extra yeast and wait for it to rise again, especially since I need about an hour for it to proof after I shape them anyway. I wish I took pictures to see if it grew or not. YOLO I guess. i get that. you can add a little extra flour and yeast and shove it in the fridge, too, if you want, then shape and proof in the morning. this is mostly an alternative to throwing it out, say, as if they never rise much at all, they probably won't make for great buns. here's hoping they turn out, though!
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Feb 6, 2021 02:57
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I use 160g of starter (100% hydration) for my 750g sandwich bread loaves, which I prefer lean. I don't knead anything so it gets to ferment for like 12-16 hours at room temp. So as mediaphage points out, the yeast may not like the enriched dough so much (Red Star has a line that specifically likes it, IIRC), and you may not have had enough yeast to begin with for a quick rise. (There's a 2 hour dinner roll recipe that has like 3 spoons of yeast in it for extra-quick rise-- I can't remember where I saw that now.) I say mark the container so you know how it's growing and bang it into the fridge overnight. e:fb
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Feb 6, 2021 03:06
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More weekend bread
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Feb 6, 2021 05:11
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If didn’t proof at all even putting it in the oven with two bowls of boiling water for heat/steam. Tossed the tray into the fridge (forgot to cover it with plastic foil 🤦♂️) and this morning they were hard as clay. Figured it wasn’t even worth wasting the gas to bake them at this point. But on the good news, my mom said she ordered me a KitchenAid cause of all the baking I’ve been posting on Facebook 😀.
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Feb 6, 2021 13:58
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Boris Galerkin posted:If didn’t proof at all even putting it in the oven with two bowls of boiling water for heat/steam. Tossed the tray into the fridge (forgot to cover it with plastic foil 🤦♂️) and this morning they were hard as clay. Figured it wasn’t even worth wasting the gas to bake them at this point. fun news about the mixer.
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Feb 6, 2021 14:41
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Boris Galerkin posted:If didn’t proof at all even putting it in the oven with two bowls of boiling water for heat/steam. Tossed the tray into the fridge (forgot to cover it with plastic foil 🤦♂️) and this morning they were hard as clay. Figured it wasn’t even worth wasting the gas to bake them at this point. That’s great! For a wedding present my brother was going to get us a decorated ketubah (Jewish marriage certificate). After about a year I hadn’t chosen one - I realised I didn’t really want one. What did I want instead? A red KitchenAid stand mixer. It was the right decision! If you bake a lot of cakes a second bowl is really handy. I bake a fair amount of kneaded bread and my wife and I both like baking cakes and biscuits (cookies), so it’s had a good amount of use over the years.
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Feb 6, 2021 15:09
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If anyone cared here are my three sourdough cultures doing on their 4th day (3rd feeding, haven’t fed yet today; the larger one has been going for weeks now): From left to right I have the OG (white whole wheat), son of OG (also white whole wheat), AP, and bread flour. I’m gonna dehydrate like half of that large container cause it looks ready. The smaller ones all started with 20g of the OG but are fed with the different flours now. I feed the smaller white whole wheat separate from the big jar just cause, I dunno, as control I guess. Not surprisingly that one has been growing like crazy which I’m assuming is cause the yeast in it are used to eating the WWW flour so nothings changed. The AP and bread cultures are lagging but there are air bubbles on the side and they’ve expanded a bit. I’m gonna try that sourdough cinnamon roll recipe again once my bread based starter has reliably grown since that recipe also uses bread flour, in case that makes a difference. Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Feb 6, 2021 |
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Feb 6, 2021 16:08
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Made sourdough burger buns to mix things up: https://www.baking-sense.com/2020/04/21/sourdough-hamburger-buns/   I think I need to flatten them a bit more, they felt a bit heavy in the middle but will see what happens next time, really happy with the fresh on I just had, will see how well they keep, drop a couple in the freezer.
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Feb 6, 2021 20:29
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So my pan-de-mei doesn’t come out square. It just kind of domes. Should I just put the lid on and let it rise until it’s filled all the corners and then bake it? Let it rise over the lip and the. Deflate the middle?
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Feb 7, 2021 01:35
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I tried to bake this https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/japanese-milk-bread-recipe today to break in the stand mixer. I had the setting on 2 because that’s what the booklet said to use for yeasted dough. The recipe says it’ll take 15 minutes but 15 minutes later my dough looked nothing like dough. It was still wet and stuck to the bottom/sides of the bowl. There was nothing cohesive about it and definitely not possible to pick up and “form into a ball.” I changed it to setting 4 and after another 15 minutes it looked like a lump of dough, although still a bit sticky. Should I have used setting 4 the entire time? Is it possible for their 15 minute guideline to be off by 15 minutes? And when it says to form it into a ball and let it rise in a bowl, am I suppose to form it like in those videos recently posted or do I just squeeze it into something like a ball?
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Feb 7, 2021 01:37
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I made that recipe recently and I recall it did take a long time before I could get enough gluten developed so that it would form a ball. For me the trick was letting it rest for 15 minutes or so after mixing the first time for 8-10 minutes and then mixing again until it’s the right consistency. It will get a bit warm when mixing for that long so you might need to let it cool back down to form a good ball. I think for the kneaded doughs it’s not quite as important to form a tight ball for bulk fermentation because they will have more gluten (unlike the no knead sourdoughs). Also for this dough in particular you end up flattening it out into a sheet, cut it, and then roll it up anyway.
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Feb 7, 2021 01:48
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Murgos posted:So my pan-de-mei doesn’t come out square. It just kind of domes. Should I just put the lid on and let it rise until it’s filled all the corners and then bake it? Let it rise over the lip and the. Deflate the middle? are you baking it in a pullman pan? it should be covered (whether with the lid or plastic) while it rises to maintain a humid environment. ideally you'll get enough oven spring to fill the loaf pan; you don't want it full up before you bake. you might just need to put some more dough in the pan.
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Feb 7, 2021 03:25
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slave to my cravings posted:I made that recipe recently and I recall it did take a long time before I could get enough gluten developed so that it would form a ball. For me the trick was letting it rest for 15 minutes or so after mixing the first time for 8-10 minutes and then mixing again until it’s the right consistency. It will get a bit warm when mixing for that long so you might need to let it cool back down to form a good ball. I think for the kneaded doughs it’s not quite as important to form a tight ball for bulk fermentation because they will have more gluten (unlike the no knead sourdoughs). Also for this dough in particular you end up flattening it out into a sheet, cut it, and then roll it up anyway. Never thought letting it rest would help, sounds kinda counter productive but I’ll keep that in mind. Just ate this bread and it was the fluffiest bread I’ve ever eaten.
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Feb 7, 2021 03:40
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Murgos posted:So my pan-de-mei doesn’t come out square. It just kind of domes. Should I just put the lid on and let it rise until it’s filled all the corners and then bake it? Let it rise over the lip and the. Deflate the middle? What size pan and how large of a dough are you doing? I have a 13x4 pullman and I aim for 1200g for the loaf. For a 9x4 or 9x5, I like 800g or so. I let it proof until the dome is juuuust about to get to the height of the rim. Boris Galerkin posted:Never thought letting it rest would help, sounds kinda counter productive but I’ll keep that in mind. Just ate this bread and it was the fluffiest bread I’ve ever eaten. Resting the dough after combining is called autolysis. It helps the flour hydrate completely, as well as starts the gluten forming process cutting actual knead time down by quite a bit. It also helps develop flavor more. Casu Marzu fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Feb 7, 2021 |
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Feb 7, 2021 03:42
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Boris Galerkin posted:Never thought letting it rest would help, sounds kinda counter productive but I’ll keep that in mind. Just ate this bread and it was the fluffiest bread I’ve ever eaten. It's called autolyse there's a whole buncha  behind ithttps://www.kingarthurbaking.com/bl...0bread%20dough.
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Feb 7, 2021 04:03
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I've been working on getting some crusty ears perfected. This past weekend I got a pretty good result (but scorched em a little!) My SO loves the crusty bits though, and when I left the room I came back to an ultra-heinous Bread Crime scene 
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Feb 7, 2021 04:47
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mediaphage posted:are you baking it in a pullman pan? it should be covered (whether with the lid or plastic) while it rises to maintain a humid environment. ideally you'll get enough oven spring to fill the loaf pan; you don't want it full up before you bake. you might just need to put some more dough in the pan. Yeah, 13x4 Pullman pan and lid following the KA recipe. It says to let the loaf get just below the rim. I’ve tried this recipe twice now and the middle does get flattened by the rim but the sides and ends don’t make it giving it a long curve from end to end. I saw something on line where they said to make the roll longer than the pan so that it’s thicker on the ends when you squeeze it in. I’ll try that next time.
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Feb 7, 2021 05:17
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Re: Bread crime, my son did the same yesterday. He is 6 yo and was so happy, he ran to me when I came back downstairs "Daddy, the crusty bit are so yum, I had to eat them." So I will put extra effort in more crusty bits next week.
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Feb 7, 2021 07:24
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Bread crime: my cat knocked the loaf of Japanese milk bread I just made last night onto the ground and then dragged it upstairs into my room where she eats all the other food she steals, like donuts, cinnamon rolls, tortillas, and one time a live mouse. I guess I’m making another loaf today. About the autolysis it says traditionally you do it before adding yeast or anything other than flour and liquid. Should I do that and then add the rest of the ingredients or just add it all according to the recipe at once?
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Feb 7, 2021 14:43
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Boris Galerkin posted:I tried to bake this https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/japanese-milk-bread-recipe today to break in the stand mixer. I had the setting on 2 because that’s what the booklet said to use for yeasted dough. The recipe says it’ll take 15 minutes but 15 minutes later my dough looked nothing like dough. It was still wet and stuck to the bottom/sides of the bowl. There was nothing cohesive about it and definitely not possible to pick up and “form into a ball.” I changed it to setting 4 and after another 15 minutes it looked like a lump of dough, although still a bit sticky. KA is very specific that you should only use 2 for kneading. It’s geared for that. 15 minutes of machine kneading sounds like a LOT. I second the autolyse suggestion. That said, I make a wholemeal loaf with very coarse wholemeal and even after a lot of kneading it’s still a sticky, shaggy mass. It rises ok given the wholemeal and bran content.
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Feb 7, 2021 14:46
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Boris Galerkin posted:Bread crime: my cat knocked the loaf of Japanese milk bread I just made last night onto the ground and then dragged it upstairs into my room where she eats all the other food she steals, like donuts, cinnamon rolls, tortillas, and one time a live mouse. I just remembered the America’s test kitchen bread book has a very similar Japanese milk bread recipe. They say to mix milk, egg, tangzhong paste, flour, and yeast on low speed with dough hook for 2 minutes to combine and then rest 15 minutes. Then mix in sugar and salt and mix for 5 minutes, then add softened butter slowly (1 tbsp at a time) and mix for 2 minutes. Then they do the rest of the kneading on medium low for about 5 minutes until dough clears the sides of the bowl, but sticks to the bottom. Then take out and shape into a ball to proof. I think I’ve tried both the KAF and ATK and both times I kneaded longer than the recipe says because it just didn’t have enough gluten and wasn’t elastic. It’s pretty hard to over knead dough so as long as your machine isn’t burning out it’s okay to keep going until you are satisfied. Milk bread freezes pretty well too so it doesn’t hurt to make more than one loaf at a time if you have an extra pan. With other breads you usually pre-slice before freezing but with a good bread knife you can slice through milk bread when frozen and it toasts/reheats really well.
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Feb 7, 2021 15:23
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i would only do fifteen minutes of kneading for something like bagels, definitely not for a normal bread.
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Feb 7, 2021 15:39
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I've found it varies tons from mixer to mixer. My Varimixer will turn anything into chewing gum in five minutes. The same recipe on a KitchenAid or a Kenwood will take half an hour.
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Feb 7, 2021 17:02
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I am literally making the bread again right now. I added all the ingredients into the bowl and mixed it on 2 for 10 minutes, then let it rest for 15 minutes, then turned it back on at 2 for 10 minutes now. This is what it looks like after all this time. What’s wrong with my dough/machine? Other than the bit on the hook, the majority of it is still stuck onto the bottom of the bowl.
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Feb 7, 2021 19:27
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Boris Galerkin posted:I am literally making the bread again right now. I added all the ingredients into the bowl and mixed it on 2 for 10 minutes, then let it rest for 15 minutes, then turned it back on at 2 for 10 minutes now. is your complaint that it’s not super smooth? are you measuring by weight or volume out of curiosity?
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Feb 7, 2021 19:39
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mediaphage posted:is your complaint that it’s not super smooth? I’m not complaining, just wondering why my dough isn’t turning out like how I thought it should. I am measuring everything by mass using the mass amounts listed on the King Arthur website. This particular one is light on pictures, but they have a recipe for cinnamon buns that are very similar in that you make tangzhong and use milk. In that recipe this is what the dough looks like after ~10 minutes (which is what it looked like for me as well).  I was expecting the recipe for the Japanese milk bread that I’m making to look something like that by now. After I took that picture I let it knead for another 15 minutes and it still didn’t look done. I turned it off again for 10 minutes and now I just turned it back on again. I feel like I’m doing something wrong here. Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Feb 7, 2021 |
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Feb 7, 2021 19:44
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i’m not trying to criticize just understand what the issue is. when i have a dough that feels too sticky i just add a little more flour. different ingredients are different. i wouldn’t knead it more, though, without doing something else because it doesn’t need it.
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Feb 7, 2021 19:51
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What are some of your favorite recipes for getting rid of a lot of starter? I know I've seen some pizza dough recipes that are primarily starter. Anything else? I've got a few cups of it to go through to get it back down to a more manageable size.
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Feb 7, 2021 19:53
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mediaphage posted:i’m not trying to criticize just understand what the issue is. when i have a dough that feels too sticky i just add a little more flour. different ingredients are different. i wouldn’t knead it more, though, without doing something else because it doesn’t need it. Thanks for understanding/helping, I appreciate that. I’m still in the newbie beginner “everything must have been written for a reason so I shouldn’t deviate because they know more than I do.” I don’t do this with regular cooking though where all the ingredients are more or less just suggestions at this point. I’m sure I’ll get there with baking at some point. e: This thing is finally starting to come together. After kneading for a combined 45 minutes though. Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Feb 7, 2021 |
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Feb 7, 2021 19:57
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neogeo0823 posted:What are some of your favorite recipes for getting rid of a lot of starter? I know I've seen some pizza dough recipes that are primarily starter. Anything else? I've got a few cups of it to go through to get it back down to a more manageable size. i just use it as preferment for any bread recipe. additionally you can basically add eggs and butter, a little sugar and some extra flour and get a sour pancake that tastes like buttermilk pancakes (esp if you add some milk powder).
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Feb 7, 2021 19:58
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Boris Galerkin posted:Thanks for understanding/helping, I appreciate that. I’m still in the newbie beginner “everything must have been written for a reason so I shouldn’t deviate because they know more than I do.” I don’t do this with regular cooking though where all the ingredients are more or less just suggestions at this point. I’m sure I’ll get there with baking at some point. yeah i’m sure you will. incidentally you could just proof and bake it without doing anything else. it’s going to be delicious bread regardless at this point i’m sure.
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Feb 7, 2021 19:59
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Boris Galerkin posted:Thanks for understanding/helping, I appreciate that. I’m still in the newbie beginner “everything must have been written for a reason so I shouldn’t deviate because they know more than I do.” I don’t do this with regular cooking though where all the ingredients are more or less just suggestions at this point. I’m sure I’ll get there with baking at some point. When I have that problem it’s usually with doughs that are too hydrated.
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Feb 7, 2021 20:07
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If it's the standard pullman pain de mie on the King Arthur website, I'd say your dough looks about right. If that was mine, I would dust the outside with a touch of flour, work it by hand for a second to form a ball, and then proceed with proofing. Edit: Oh are you doing the Japanese milk bread recipe again? Cuz with only 1 egg and 113g of milk, I have no idea how it gets that wet. Also how thick is your tangzhong? Casu Marzu fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Feb 7, 2021 |
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Feb 7, 2021 20:17
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therattle posted:When I have that problem it’s usually with doughs that are too hydrated. I’m not sure if I’m supposed to count the mass of everything else I add in (sugar etc) but if it’s liquid and flour only then this recipe is about 80%, if I count the egg as 50g of liquid which is about right.
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Feb 7, 2021 20:21
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Casu Marzu posted:If it's the standard pullman pain de mie on the King Arthur website, I'd say your dough looks about right. If that was mine, I would dust the outside with a touch of flour, work it by hand for a second to form a ball, and then proceed with proofing. Yeah I’m doing the same recipe again cause my cat stole my first loaf. The tangzhong was thick enough that it didn’t run when I turned the saucepan over to the side and when I scooped it into the mixing bowl with the spatula it just held its shape. I did cook it a bit less (about a minute or so) than yesterday because yesterday the sides were burning. The weird thing about this tangzhong compared to the one in their cinnamon rolls is that you add both milk and water. When I make it for the cinnamon rolls it cooks up nicely, faster, and thicker without burning. The extra water for the milk bread recipe makes it more runny. I think if I tried this recipe again I’ll just omit the water and use double the milk for the tangzhong.
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Feb 7, 2021 20:31
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therattle posted:When I have that problem it’s usually with doughs that are too hydrated. There is a lot of variables but usually the recommendation for when the dough isn't coming together is to add flour a couple of tablespoons worth at a time until it starts to pull away from the sides of the mixer.
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Feb 7, 2021 20:51
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Gotcha. I’ll keep that in mind for next time. Is there a good book for a beginner like me? I’m kinda just searching through King Arthur’s website for things that sound good and that works okay. A book that explains some of the basics and technique better could be useful though. I’m ok if it’s heavy on science.
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Feb 7, 2021 21:09
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Murgos posted:There is a lot of variables but usually the recommendation for when the dough isn't coming together is to add flour a couple of tablespoons worth at a time until it starts to pull away from the sides of the mixer. Yep. For me it’s usually a dense wholemeal baked in a tin so I don’t really care, but agreed, and thank you!
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Feb 7, 2021 21:11
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Boris Galerkin posted:Gotcha. I’ll keep that in mind for next time. peter reinhart’s the bread baker’s apprentice is my standard recommendation. everything in that book comes out perfect. plus the guy himself seems very much a cool dude.
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Feb 7, 2021 21:13
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