|
The Puppy Bowl posted:I don't love this WR class. Chase and Smith will be good but I doubt they live up to their top ten draft spots. Rashod Bateman seems way overhyped. The way he moves and protects the ball with his body remind me of Keenan Allen. Problem is I think Keenan Allen is a totally unique guy who gets open with insane route running ability that Bateman doesn't have. I'd be interested in Amon-Ra St. Brown if he fell to the Ravens' 2nd round pick. Outside of him I don't see anyone Baltimore could get that would likely improve their passing game substantially next year. It is a deep class, especially for slot WRs, so maybe one of the late day 2/early day 3 guys comes alive in the NFL. Tylan Wallace, Amari Rodgers, and Demetic Felton all seem to have potential. Not that they'd meet that potential if drafted by Baltimore. Before I know how seriously to take your opinion, do you scout receivers for the Baltimore Ravens professionally?
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2021 23:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 20:30 |
|
|
Not anymore. I work for the Texans now.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2021 23:23
|
|
|
I can see people being iffy on Chase and Smith because they're not traditional Madden quality WRs. Everyone wants the Calvin Johnson and Andre Johnsons of the world. What everyones gotta understand is that people can be 3-4 inches shorter and 20 lbs lighters and still be amazing. I mean look at Jerry Rice. WRs also have different philosophies in their route trees. Some are really good high pointers and walk up to the point of catch. Others try to get behind DBs and catch a lower trajectory ball. There's a lot of success in the NFL for the latter at the moment and a huge reason for Mahomes' success. WRs that can confuse defenses and take advantage of soft spots in coverage are trumping the big guys that run down sidelines. That's not to say they've lost value, it's just more that GMs don't salivate as much over the Kevin Whites of the world anymore.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2021 23:42
|
|
|
God, I was really excited about Kevin White. I definitely have a biases towards those bigger, stronger WRs that catch fade TDs and every jump ball coming there way. Probably because of really falling hard into football around the time Calvin, Andre, and their ilk were dominating the league. You're right though, today's game is different. There's more space than ever before so there's an increased premium on people who can get open in that space. To a degree I think that decoupling of top end WR play from freakish physical attributes has made the position more fungible. That more than anything is why I question the value of top 5 draft picks on guys like Devonta Smith. It seems easier these days to get 80% of his value out of like a day 2 pick while competent tackle and QB play is still exceedingly rare. And yeah I am scared of Smith's size. His legs look like straight twigs.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 00:22
|
|
|
Speaking of receivers for Mahomes I definitely want another one. Not to mimic the Tyreek Hills or Mecole Hardmans of the world but rather to replace broke rear end Sammy Watkins. Any ideas? edit: Bateman? Marshall? kiimo fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Feb 6, 2021 |
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 00:26
|
|
|
The Puppy Bowl posted:God, I was really excited about Kevin White. I definitely have a biases towards those bigger, stronger WRs that catch fade TDs and every jump ball coming there way. Probably because of really falling hard into football around the time Calvin, Andre, and their ilk were dominating the league. You're right though, today's game is different. There's more space than ever before so there's an increased premium on people who can get open in that space. To a degree I think that decoupling of top end WR play from freakish physical attributes has made the position more fungible. That more than anything is why I question the value of top 5 draft picks on guys like Devonta Smith. It seems easier these days to get 80% of his value out of like a day 2 pick while competent tackle and QB play is still exceedingly rare. He's thinner but still solid enough. He also has surprising upper body strength. He just digs his arms straight into people during jump balls and it allows him to get position. Basically a pre-catch stiffarm. But you're right, Chase and Waddle are way better doing the sluggo routes and can usually take hits better. Either way most WRs seem to wear down at the same rate and it's an underrated wear down position that has about as much shelf life as RBs. I'd rather have a guy that can get to spots quicker than anyone than someone who can take a hit if the difference is a few months on average. I also feel that people on these forums constantly say you can take X or Y player late regardless of what position it is. They'll also back this up with offhand examples of good late round picks ignoring that if you're getting drafted into the NFL you're either A) Unbelievably talented or B) Unbelievably athletic already. There's 22 spots on a starting roster and 224 picks which means you're basically seeing the top 10 of each position every time the draft comes around. Who goes where in that ranking is up to teams preference and scarcity. Go BPA and wish for your team to go BPA. You'll feel a lot better about picks.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 00:54
|
|
|
I hope a Rashod Bateman or Jaycee Horn are available at 23. Huge needs and I love them both.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 01:42
|
|
|
What do you see in Bateman? I really don't get it. I want to like him, he's the body type I usually overvalue, just don't see it. For the record Marshall in KC seems like it would work well. Playmaker with inconsistency and the occasional drop. With Mahomes the Chiefs don't seem to give a poo poo about keeping the offense in schedule at all. So the big play potential in Terrance Marshall would probably mesh well with that offensive identify.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 01:47
|
|
|
Batemans frame and hands are excellent and while he’s no one is really in Keenan Allen’s class at route running, I don’t see any obviously flaws. He’s gets in and out of his breaks without a lot of wasted motion and it looks smooth. I think he’d be a very good outside receiver which happens to be an area of major need for us.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 01:53
|
|
|
kiimo posted:Speaking of receivers for Mahomes I definitely want another one. Not to mimic the Tyreek Hills or Mecole Hardmans of the world but rather to replace broke rear end Sammy Watkins. Any ideas? no...no...more....make it stop.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 01:55
|
|
|
The Bengals only really need speed at WR. They have everything else. If I could put any former WR on the roster for next year I'm windmill slamming the "2005 Chris Henry" button.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 02:18
|
|
|
Doltos posted:He's thinner but still solid enough. He also has surprising upper body strength. He just digs his arms straight into people during jump balls and it allows him to get position. Basically a pre-catch stiffarm. But you're right, Chase and Waddle are way better doing the sluggo routes and can usually take hits better. Either way most WRs seem to wear down at the same rate and it's an underrated wear down position that has about as much shelf life as RBs. I'd rather have a guy that can get to spots quicker than anyone than someone who can take a hit if the difference is a few months on average. I've always thought you should take your shots late on the best possible technicians regardless of their triangle numbers, their school or their competition, time and time again the players late who seem to pan out are the guys who were well coached from their junior days and know their fundamentals. Scouts and GMs seem to get caught up too much in what a guy could be instead of what they are. I know running backs grow on trees but how many times have we seen guys drop to the 5-7th round because they don't have blazing speed but end up starters because they can read blocks, dont fumble and get low in contact.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 02:27
|
|
|
BlindSite posted:I've always thought you should take your shots late on the best possible technicians regardless of their triangle numbers, their school or their competition, time and time again the players late who seem to pan out are the guys who were well coached from their junior days and know their fundamentals. Scouts and GMs seem to get caught up too much in what a guy could be instead of what they are. I know running backs grow on trees but how many times have we seen guys drop to the 5-7th round because they don't have blazing speed but end up starters because they can read blocks, dont fumble and get low in contact. I agree but those late round RBs that you guys covet in this thread are starting to go in the top 100 reliably. Cam Akers was stuck on a poo poo team that opened no holes and Darrynton Evans was on a FCS team which means unless you have god tier athleticism you're dropping no matter what. They're both perfectly fine runners but they were both taken high last year pretty much due to them taking a poo poo ton of snaps out of shotgun. It's all draft philosophies. Scouts and GMs usually rank 10-15 players on a big board based on system fit, talent, or preference, then select based on who's left on that board when their pick happens. That's just the good ones too, the bad ones have poo poo like Dan Snyder calling in a name they heard 10 minutes before during a cocaine binge. Either way I think prospects go exactly where the NFL values them just due to supply and demand. A bunch of teams BPA and build systems around the players, a bunch of teams BPA for their system. It weaves a tapestry wherein the Lions are perpetually doomed. It's beautiful.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 03:11
|
|
|
Eifert Posting posted:The Bengals only really need speed at WR. They have everything else. If I could put any former WR on the roster for next year I'm windmill slamming the "2005 Chris Henry" button. John ross is the speed guy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 03:17
|
|
|
Doltos posted:I agree but those late round RBs that you guys covet in this thread are starting to go in the top 100 reliably. Cam Akers was stuck on a poo poo team that opened no holes and Darrynton Evans was on a FCS team which means unless you have god tier athleticism you're dropping no matter what. They're both perfectly fine runners but they were both taken high last year pretty much due to them taking a poo poo ton of snaps out of shotgun. I think it applies to a lot of other positions too. We see a lot of solid lineman come out of the late rounds too. I'll always be in favor of BPA but I think the first round is fine to fill a position of need since fundamentally most teams have groups of guys and not necessarily a direct ranking system.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 03:39
|
|
|
I’ve decided Miami needs to trade from 3 to 8-10, draft waddle, then trade from 18 to 13-14 and grab Pitts. Just go all in madden style. Grab your 3rd rounder OL prospect. Get your starting RB in the 2nd (williams or Etienne) and a pass rusher in the bottom. Live it up. If you’re going all in on Tua just do go full retard
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 05:17
|
|
|
So what position groups are people actually feeling high on this year? We've been on a lot about nearly every group being underwhelming to bad it feels like.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 05:41
|
|
|
i can't handle all the hype a northwestern guy is getting this year, the last time they had a first round pick luis castillo had to apologize for doing Roids
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 05:41
|
|
|
Ches Neckbeard posted:So what position groups are people actually feeling high on this year? We've been on a lot about nearly every group being underwhelming to bad it feels like. There is a ton of quality guard depth. And less, but still quality, center depth as well. TEs also seem good in this class.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 05:57
|
|
|
The weaker looking classes always end up middle heavy and I think teams find them stronger than the pundits. It always seems like there's a big class and all the pundits cream their pants only for teams to go oh we only rated these 15 guys as legit first rounders.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 06:04
|
|
|
EmbryoSteve posted:John ross is the speed guy. Presumably he wants a speed guy who isn't made of glass, and who is at least a little bit good at other aspects of the game
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 06:26
|
|
|
Ches Neckbeard posted:So what position groups are people actually feeling high on this year? We've been on a lot about nearly every group being underwhelming to bad it feels like. Most people seem to think it's another top wr draft. Also QB! Fields and Wilson would both be 1st overall picks in some other recent drafts, Lawrence is god tier and there might be 6 first round capable qbs.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 08:21
|
|
|
PupsOfWar posted:Presumably he wants a speed guy who isn't made of glass, and who is at least a little bit good at other aspects of the game Yeah Ross is a head case. I think Marv didn't help, but that dude isn't relevant.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 09:52
|
|
|
Ches Neckbeard posted:So what position groups are people actually feeling high on this year? We've been on a lot about nearly every group being underwhelming to bad it feels like. It's a bit niche, but this draft looks like it's going to be great for the teams who want to put linebackers on the LOS... the 3-4 teams looking for more than just a stand-up DE, the Pete Carroll teams looking for SAMs, the Belichick defensive guys looking for hybrid guys, etc. Micah Parsons and Zaven Collins are both good prospects as pure off-the-ball linebackers with legitimate edge skills. Joseph Ossai and Azeez Ojulari are going to give you 3-4 OLBs w/ coverage reps pretty much out of the box early on. There's so many guys who are like 6'3" 245 pounds who are very athletic but probably can't do the job in a 4-3 on an every down basis that you're likely to get some bargains there. Then there's some kind of interesting and odd developmental prospects that might give someone a good player if they can figure out wtf to do with them like Charles Snowden Jr.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 22:31
|
|
|
Catfish Noodlin posted:It's a bit niche, but this draft looks like it's going to be great for the teams who want to put linebackers on the LOS... the 3-4 teams looking for more than just a stand-up DE, the Pete Carroll teams looking for SAMs, the Belichick defensive guys looking for hybrid guys, etc. The year Bud Dupree leaves in FA? Sign me up my dude
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 22:41
|
|
|
Ches Neckbeard posted:So what position groups are people actually feeling high on this year? We've been on a lot about nearly every group being underwhelming to bad it feels like. Who are you listening to that's saying this? This is one of the most stacked draft classes of the last 10 years.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2021 02:00
|
|
|
Doltos posted:Who are you listening to that's saying this? This is one of the most stacked draft classes of the last 10 years. Yea, it seems like actual D Line is eh but every other position group is stacked.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2021 02:10
|
|
|
Doltos posted:Who are you listening to that's saying this? This is one of the most stacked draft classes of the last 10 years. When I say we I mean the thread. Maybe it's just what's caught my eye but man does it feel like we've been super down on this year's class.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2021 02:13
|
|
|
Ches Neckbeard posted:When I say we I mean the thread. Maybe it's just what's caught my eye but man does it feel like we've been super down on this year's class. TFF is always down on every class
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2021 02:13
|
|
|
I thought TFF would be more positive about the sheer amount of o-line and QBs in this draft but I guess the new shift is to LBs and DEs which admittedly is just an average to good class.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2021 02:20
|
|
|
Doltos posted:I thought TFF would be more positive about the sheer amount of o-line and QBs in this draft but I guess the new shift is to LBs and DEs which admittedly is just an average to good class. i am pumped about whatever OL the chargers pass on
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2021 02:22
|
|
|
This is the first draft I can remember in a decade where the O line is more exciting than the D line.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2021 02:29
|
|
|
I think this draft is a bit funny in that you'll probably be drafting 2nd round talents by the time you hit #20 overall, but then you still might have some guys of that general quality on the board when day 3 starts.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2021 16:30
|
|
|
Owns https://twitter.com/jayceehorn_10/status/1358588817473609730?s=21
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2021 04:03
|
|
|
Catfish Noodlin posted:I think this draft is a bit funny in that you'll probably be drafting 2nd round talents by the time you hit #20 overall, but then you still might have some guys of that general quality on the board when day 3 starts. All the more reason to trade down and trade up enough to secure 8 + 12. You can do it with only the 3 and 18
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2021 04:04
|
|
|
The only thing that's important, AIR YARDS https://twitter.com/PFF_Mike/status/1358809995249410048
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2021 17:16
|
|
|
Kalli posted:The only thing that's important, AIR YARDS Also known as the Favre Factor or the Grossman Gauge
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2021 18:46
|
|
|
Kalli posted:The only thing that's important, AIR YARDS  I didn't realize it was flat out farthest they threw the ball in a game, not farthest completion. Good on the guys who hit their shots I guess.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2021 02:31
|
|
|
Grittybeard posted:
they do at least all seem to be catchable balls
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2021 02:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 20:30 |
|
|
Hmm, yeah I guess he's probably approaching it as 'farthest good pass.' Which makes sense since you're evaluating the QB and not the receiver. But it was still funny because I was expecting a thread full of awesome plays instead of...you know, some awesome plays.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2021 02:46
|
|