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persona 5 is so intensely stylish, but its extremely weird to me that the persona games are the only games that seem to put so much thought into tying the UI design with the games so well. they've been doing this going back to persona 3
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Feb 8, 2021 18:52
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Yakuza 7 needs Persona 5's style, and Persona 5 needs Yakuza 7's heart.
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Feb 8, 2021 18:59
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Gort posted:Yakuza 7 needs Persona 5's style, and Persona 5 needs Yakuza 7's heart. 
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Feb 8, 2021 19:00
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BP i woke up late and spent an hour failing to beat the second real boss in Nioh 2 and then having done nothing of value went to work where I continue to accomplish nothing of value to this very moment. My studio head is setting up an ancient PC so a friend of his who's visiting and hanging out here can play the original Unreal from 1998.
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Feb 8, 2021 19:13
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veni veni veni posted:BOTW is toe to toe with Bloodborne for the best game I have ever played. sorry (not really) to harp back on this point, but whenever anyone defende botw they never really have much to backup their claim except to say that it's "engrossing" or "immersive" but never explain how. it's fine to like a game just because it clicks for you and maybe it doesn't need further explanation, but when criticizers are able to articulate their specific pitfalls with the game, it makes ME feel like i'm the one in crazy town when fans of the game just shrug and go "idk what's wrong w your taste it's the best game ever made." my snark and cynicism default to trying to fill in the blanks in those arguments and i think about the bullet points that could be seen as good: • using various items to cook food • physics that allow starting a fire and swinging a big leaf at it to create an updraft • "go anywhere" traversal botw feels like a tech demo for the physics engine in a big playground for open world nerds. neither of which feel especially tied to what makes zelda games special so i just dont get it. i think i just really hate open world games and this game highlights what i dislike about them in a franchise i love
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Feb 8, 2021 19:20
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VideoGames posted:I do not enjoy turn based combat at all, which is one reason I am glad Yakuza 7 does not feature my friend Kiryu Kazama. You say this now but you also didn’t get into Bloodborne at first. I’m giving it two years tops before you try Yakuza 7, love it, and then marathon your way through half the Dragon Quests.
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Feb 8, 2021 19:20
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ShoogaSlim posted:[legit complaints about the nature of criticism] BotW does one thing nearly better than any other example of the genre, and that's verisimilitude. You're introduced to the arcane and weird rules of the world reasonably gently, and given time to let them process, so later when you intuit a solution to a given problem it just works without the need for convoluted video game logic to justify it. The real genius bit is that that explanation works for every solution, so once you've grokked the concept of how things work you're free to do things how you want, not how the game wants.
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Feb 8, 2021 19:27
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ShoogaSlim posted:botw feels like a tech demo for the physics engine in a big playground for open world nerds. neither of which feel especially tied to what makes zelda games special so i just dont get it. i think i just really hate open world games and this game highlights what i dislike about them in a franchise i love When I sit down to play BotW, I log in and just... look around. I peep the map and look at my stuff and ask myself "what do i want to do today?" and then I go and explore the places I need to explore. The sense of scale and exploration are the parts of OoT and Majora's Mask that I liked the most. Skyward Sword showed me that a zelda game that hyperfocused on dungeons and items at the expense of the overworld actually sucks insanely bad, so it makes sense to me that a game that focused on the opposite would be good. I like the way the game is constantly rewarding your curiosity and your ingenuity. It makes me feel incredibly smart, and also incredibly dumb at times, which is more than I can say for basically any Zelda game before it. Finding all the weird secret temples and fairy shrines and labyrinths and ancient ruins was extremely satisfying to me, because sometimes they had rare or special weapons and armor, and sometimes they had cool enemies, and sometimes it would unlock a shrine. I also liken it kind of to an MMO-lite, in that I really wasn't fully vibing with the game until i had looted Hyrule Castle and gotten all the magic powers and was no longer instantly disintegrating in combat with tougher enemies, so the "leveling process" is a little rough. If I were telling someone how to get into BotW, i would tell them to zerg rush the 4 beast dungeons and then spread out and explore at their leisure.
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Feb 8, 2021 19:29
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:johnny mnemonic feels like a weird and awesome product of a very specific moment in mid 90s culture where wacky rear end niche poo poo was everywhere and still managed to make enough money to justify its existence. i guess i feel the same way about tank girl and rumble in the bronx. I first started working in theatres when all of these came out, it was glorious. I had a tank girl poster hanging in my room for the longest time. Johnny Mnemonic and Tank Girl were definitely more interesting than most stuff getting released those days
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Feb 8, 2021 19:34
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ShoogaSlim posted:sorry (not really) to harp back on this point, but whenever anyone defende botw they never really have much to backup their claim except to say that it's "engrossing" or "immersive" but never explain how. Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 19:35
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ShoogaSlim posted:botw feels like a tech demo for the physics engine in a big playground for open world nerds. neither of which feel especially tied to what makes zelda games special so i just dont get it. i think i just really hate open world games and this game highlights what i dislike about them in a franchise i love I also hate open world games for the most part, but BotW knocked my socks off because it succeeded at delivering the traditional Zelda hero's journey with almost zero linear rails, which is an incredibly tall order. Part of it is that I'm a longtime Zelda fan, so BotW spoke to my inner child who wanted to explore beyond the invisible walls in OoT. Visiting the traditional locations and going through the traditional rites of passage while feeling totally in control was a constant thrill. The other reason I love BotW that I think can be appreciated more broadly is that the structure of the game is pretty radical. Link is dropped into an open world with one big mission, literally everything else is optional. This is the part of BotW that other games ought to rip off, not just the art style. I'm at probably the 2/3 point in RDR2's campaign. It's incredible the amount of care and attention that has gone into the open world, but the critical path is the same linear mission structure that I've been playing since GTA3. It feels pretty rote by now. I can imagine a hybrid of RDR1 and 2 that borrows this element from BotW: you're dropped into the RDR2 map with the goal of capturing or killing a group of wanted outlaws, but it's completely nonlinear, and you can explore and engage with NPCs to find them while growing powerful enough to take them on. Something like that could be amazing. Cardiovorax posted:I wouldn't blame for doing that. I've made the experience that it can be much harder to articulate what you like about a game than what you dislike about it, because likings tend to be about the overall package effect while dislikes are often about something very specific that ruins the rest of the experience for you. It's strangely easier to say "this part of the game is bad" than "these are all the things that I like about the game." Yeah, I love BotW because of a feeling it's given me that no other game has. It's difficult to even put it into words, much less itemize it like a series of complaints. acksplode fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 19:54
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ShoogaSlim posted:sorry (not really) to harp back on this point, but whenever anyone defende botw they never really have much to backup their claim except to say that it's "engrossing" or "immersive" but never explain how. I hadn't played a Zelda game since Ocarina and BOTW is in my top 5 for greatest game of the decade. As to why it is so good, or why I loved it? I just liked the fact that I would go anywhere and discover little odds and ends and points on the map. That's it. It's the same reason I fell in love with Witcher 3. I love the freedom to go wherever the gently caress I want to and just find poo poo. Stuff like Eventide Island or completing Tarry Town was a lot of fun for me. I even loved finding and completing as many of the Shrines as I could. The combat is meh and I didn't care about the story. I say this as someone who could never get into Morrowind games. Also side-note, who did everyone end up romancing in Persona 5? I am 60 hours in and its end of August but right now I am on track with Makoto because she seems like a natural fit for the character. That said, I always make sure to set aside bro-time with my boy Ryuji. it also helps that my favorite party line up is Queen, Ryuji, Morgana.
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Feb 8, 2021 19:57
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I don't actually like playing breath of the pantsless very much, to clarify. Sometimes it's rad but I got a million zillion games and I ain't got time for a game that doesn't care whether I spent an hour or seven.
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Feb 8, 2021 20:43
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Solaris 2.0 posted:Also side-note, who did everyone end up romancing in Persona 5? I am 60 hours in and its end of August but right now I am on track with Makoto because she seems like a natural fit for the character. That said, I always make sure to set aside bro-time with my boy Ryuji. for some reason i found it intensely funny when you get to the step in that social link where you can't advance until makoto thinks you are believably cool enough to be her fake boyfriend
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Feb 8, 2021 20:55
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Makoto is w/life goals.
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Feb 8, 2021 20:56
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All games are boring and rote Go here, shoot a guy in a coat A quick physics puzzle Is sure to confuzzle And add several hours of bloat
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Feb 8, 2021 21:00
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One day I will finish BotW but I will never feel about it the way most people seem to. I'm largely fatigued on open world games to the point where simply having a vast sandbox to explore and make my own fun in doesn't really do it for me anymore. I spent a thousand hours in Oblivion and Skyrim doing that. I kind of wish I didn't because BotW seems like a much better environment to do that in, but it's done, and my sense of open-world wonder is all but dead. But honestly the thing that turns me off the game more than anything is the UI. Having to pause the game to scroll through my abilities is such a drag that I often can't even be bothered to try to come up with clever solutions to things because I find it so unpleasant to interact with that interface, especially if I want to use multiple powers in rapid succession. Even a radial menu would be better. I've been playing Fenyx Rising recently and while I think the similarities to BotW are overblown beyond the broad strokes, the ability to cast all my main abilities using just buttons on the controller is such a huge difference in terms of how enjoyable I find the gameplay and how willing I am to experiment and press onward.
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Feb 8, 2021 21:13
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appreciate all of the replies about why BotW is fun. again, i know sometimes it doesn't need explaining to just say you like something, and it can be harder to articulate "i like this overall" vs "here are things i dislike" but i do think i have a better sense for why people like the game now. a lot of it seems to equate to a larger sense of freedom than typical open world games which is enhanced by the way the game helps you intuit how to interact with things once you've learned the basics early on. something like the opposite of a rockstar game presenting you with an open world but giving you explicit instructions about how you need to do things for hours and hours. ever since i was a young little poo poo, i've fantasized about a kind of game you could play however you want and have a meaningful ending that was a result of your actions that you chose to carry out without the game holding your hand. BotW and... ugh... Cyberpunk seem like they're on the right track for this kind of ideal game, but both wind up failing to be actually good games *to me* because of all the things they get wrong: BotW is non-linear but no overarching story i care about, Cyberpunk is non-linear but plays like poo poo and the choices presented are mostly just window dressing. i would love a game like BotW that didn't require you to stop playing to open the menu every 30 seconds and that had multiple endings based on what you did in the world. call me a dirty fanboy but i think an open world game by Naughty Dog would hit more of the targets i'm looking for if they borrowed ideas from BotW/Cyberpunk FYI i'm only using Cyberpunk as a recent example of trying to achieve meaningful open world even though i only played like 2 hours and hated it. if anyone has suggestions for games like i'm describing, i'm all ears. maybe not in the same realm, but one of my most anticipated games this year is the console version of Disco Elysium bc i really dig the idea of a game that reacts to how i play it in a meaningful way, but who knows if i'll actually wind up hating it.
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Feb 8, 2021 21:31
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The Witcher 3 is more what you want.
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Feb 8, 2021 21:32
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It's easy to bounce off it though because The Witcher 3 doesn't care whether you're comfortable with it or not.
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Feb 8, 2021 21:33
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Cardiovorax posted:I wouldn't blame people too much for doing that. I've made the experience that it can be much harder to articulate what you like about a game than what you dislike about it, because likings tend to be about the overall package effect while dislikes are often about something very specific that ruins the rest of the experience for you. It's strangely easier to say "this part of the game is bad" than "these are all the things that I like about the game." It's a classic bad brain issue. You think about the three negative comments way more than you would the dozens of compliments. Or maybe that's just a me issue.
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Feb 8, 2021 21:41
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Dewgy posted:You say this now but you also didn’t get into Bloodborne at first. Asking for a friend - they tried Yakuza 7 and loved it. Which Dragon Quest should
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Feb 8, 2021 22:02
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Gort posted:Asking for a friend - they tried Yakuza 7 and loved it. Which Dragon Quest should 5, 8, 9, 11 These are honestly the best the series has to offer imo, and are excellent for newcomers as well. I would start with the oldest and work your way up, but any order would work as well.
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Feb 8, 2021 22:06
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Dragon Quest 5 is twenty nine years old, though. It's probably utterly terrible, just because games have moved on in thirty years. Edit: OK, it got remade a mere twelve years ago but still that's drat old in game terms
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Feb 8, 2021 22:08
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Please start on 8 or 11, good lord. The others are fine as follow ups.
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Feb 8, 2021 22:10
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ShoogaSlim posted:appreciate all of the replies about why BotW is fun. again, i know sometimes it doesn't need explaining to just say you like something, and it can be harder to articulate "i like this overall" vs "here are things i dislike" but i do think i have a better sense for why people like the game now. Honestly I think everyone is incapable of disliking games for dumb reasons and it takes 1 dumb reason to put you off a game compared to however many constant good reasons to like it. Take Breath of the Wild, I remember exactly where I realised I wasn't having a great time. I was just getting to grips with the game and came upon my first combat shrine and the unwieldy controls, stiffness of the combat and seeing my favourite part of the game (cool puzzle shrines) become my least favourite (tedious fights) was enough to make me put it down and never really think about picking it back up
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Feb 8, 2021 22:11
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ShoogaSlim posted:sorry (not really) to harp back on this point, but whenever anyone defende botw they never really have much to backup their claim except to say that it's "engrossing" or "immersive" but never explain how. It's not hard to articulate. Just because I didn't decide to go into great detail in that one specific post doesn't mean it's unexplainable. But since you asked, I'll tell you why for me it's on the short list of the greatest games ever made. For one, there's nothing a game can do to win me over more than making exploration of it's world really satisfying. BOTW is absolutely stuffed with interesting stuff to find, and it's rarely just handed to you. It's not a hard game by any means (for the most part. There is some really tough stuff peppered in there) but it doesn't hold your hand and communicates almost everything through it's own consistent rules and visual language. So when I find something to uncover, I'm doing it because I want to, not because the game explicitly states there is something there I need to go pick up. Even the most basic collectable currency in the game if often hidden behind some sort of small mystery that makes me want to solve it. I'm not trying to pick up a korok seed because I see one on the minimap. I am trying to find it because I found say, a conspicuous ramp carved into the side of a hill with a curious hole at the bottom of a cliff. Now I want to find a rock and roll it down the ramp to see what happens. There's a certain level of mystery in the world that makes it so I feel like I rarely know exactly what I'll find around the next corner. The game is frequently throwing obvious things you need to interact with at you, without explicitly stating how and leaving you to your own devices to figure it out. Which to me is one of the most engaging ways you can interact with a game world. The story totally facilitates this too. You are given a specific, world saving goal at the beginning, but also story reasons for it not really being time sensitive at all. From there you are free to go off and have any adventures that you want. Above all I think it does a better job of making the player feel like they are really "having an adventure" than any game I have played. Going from the beginning to the final castle feels like a real journey imo. Beyond that, the combat is simple but fun, the art style is fantastic, the world feels like a real, organic place and has a ridiculous attention to detail, the puzzles are simple but not overly so, there's all sorts of cool locations like massive ruins and charming, unique towns, all of which are extremely explorable....I mean honestly I'm barely scratching the surface here. I feel like I could just go off for 10 more paragraphs about all of the little things I like about the game. That's not to say it's perfect. I think all of the Shrines having the same visual style gets a bit rote after a while. I think I'd like to have less, but more substantial shrines that were more akin to real dungeons. I still really enjoyed the shrines for the most part though. Also I think the game could use a bit more enemy variety. Those are my only major complaints though really. I think people complaining about weapons breaking is so overblown it's sort of comical. Weapons constantly breaking stops being a thing very early on and after a bit you'll start to know which ones to grab to keep the action going. i think it facilitates playing with a wide range of weapons throughout the game instead of just clinging to one, and makes the Master Sword feel like the goat if you actually go find it. I've always found it funny that people claim that weapons break after like 2 enemies because that really only happens when you are picking sticks up off the ground in the starting area and maybe a bit beyond. I feel like it likely sometimes says something about how much they actually played the game. veni veni veni fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 22:15
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I'd suggest starting with DQ9. It's the most open and least plot-heavy of the ones I've played. You've got a lot of flexibility in the kind of characters you want to build and there are few to no hour-long cutscenes.
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Feb 8, 2021 22:19
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I don’t have a super detailed reason but I loved BOTW because of nostalgia. It’s the closest feeling I had to being a child again and blowing into my gold Zelda 1 nes cartridge, jamming that poo poo in, and loving around the overworld for hours. No other game has really come close to that gameplay loop for me.
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Feb 8, 2021 22:21
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veni veni veni posted:I think people complaining about weapons breaking is so overblown it's sort of comical. Weapons constantly breaking stops being a thing very early on and after a bit you'll start to know which ones to grab to keep the action going. i think it facilitates playing with a wide range of weapons throughout the game instead of just clinging to one, and makes the Master Sword feel like the goat if you actually go find it. I've always found it funny that people claim that weapons break after like 2 enemies because that really only happens when you are picking sticks up off the ground in the starting area and maybe a bit beyond. I feel like it likely sometimes says something about how much they actually played the game. if weapons stop breaking frequently further on why is it a good thing at any point? if you think it shows how little people played the game that it's a turn off can't you logically see the problem here? it's hard to take this argument seriously when it always alludes to people just wanting to use one weapon forever, as if there's some binary where there's no possible way anyone would ever use more than one weapon if there wasn't major weapon breakage as one of the first systems in the game.
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Feb 8, 2021 22:21
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was a very big fan of the freedom botw offered, and i don't mean the open world, but the way potential solutions to problems were seldom gated off by the standard conventions of the series or even the entire genre there's a chest on a high place. in a normal zelda game, i must reach the high place. instead i can levitate a rock to knock the chest off the high place, or just magnetize the whole drat chest and bring it to me. there is a ball-rolling puzzle where i have to remote-control a big track. i don't like doing this, would be nice if i could just flip the whole drat track over and roll it on the smooth- oh ok i can do that too. that's not even getting into the whackos who exploit the physics engine to propel themselves through the air and into the final boss's front door, and the game just shrugs and gives you a thumbs-up for it. and no matter where you end up, however far out of your way you go, there'll always be some minor puzzle or environmental detail waiting for you - even if the rewards are trifling, it's nice to know that the developers anticipated that kind of ambition and gave a little prize for it to overthink it a little, that all ties into botw's setting as well - the traditional world of zelda has undergone collapse, so all of its typical restrictions are gone as well. it hands you all your tools in the first couple of hours and tells you to go anywhere and try anything with them that and i really liked taking shelter in the occasional way station while thunderstorms raged outside, it was a nice feeling
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Feb 8, 2021 22:23
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while the rain frequency made climbing absolutely suck, i think all of my favorite botw moments came from things catching on fire from lightning hitting something and all hell breaking loose. boar catches fire lighting an entire plains on fire leading up to some bokoblins who now have flaming weapons and are all very upset about whats going on, et cetera.
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Feb 8, 2021 22:26
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https://youtu.be/SHnsqXWqaHI This video is fantastic and sums up a lot about why I love BotW so much.
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Feb 8, 2021 22:27
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I remember when I solved a puzzle in one of the shrines not by correctly rolling a ball down the little labyrinth of pachinko-like gaps that you were supposed to block or unblock as needed, but rather by stopping it at the top and then punting so drat hard that it skipped on top of the railing of the puzzle and rolled right over the wall into the target room. BOTW gives you a silly degree of freedom to solve basically any kind of situation the way you want it to, even if you're not intended to use that solution.
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Feb 8, 2021 22:28
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rabidsquid posted:if weapons stop breaking frequently further on why is it a good thing at any point? if you think it shows how little people played the game that it's a turn off can't you logically see the problem here? because it's a way assign different value to weapons without some obnoxious loot system dominating your time. Why does something thinking the weapon breakage was well done have less value than someone complaining about it?
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Feb 8, 2021 22:28
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Oh poo poo did Zelda get ported to the PS4?
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Feb 8, 2021 22:29
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veni veni veni posted:because it's a way assign different value to weapons without some obnoxious loot system dominating your time. i didnt think i was being vague when i said that bringing up some argument that people just want to use one weapon the whole game makes me feel like the defense of it is less credulous, like if someone isn't specifically complaining to you that is the issue bringing it up out of left field is just going to make me tune out whatever else was said because it seems to levy the argument as just being about how any complaint of the system is facile. "i think other people have this specific wrong opinion" just doesn't do it for me and isn't a compelling argument in favor of a system. i never said people can't like it, i started my whole initial statement about this explaining why i understand that other peopole like it but why i don't. i think the balance of the system is off, you could accomplish incentivizing weapon variety with different engaging move sets on different types of weapons, and that i feel like any game system which has the potential to be way more ruinous than additive is one i think should generally be avoided. edit: also isn't weapons with more durability/higher damage numbers but the exact same move set like, functionally identical to a loot system? rabidsquid fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 22:35
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I hate Nintendo for making dumb games that ppl go insane over for no reason
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Feb 8, 2021 22:38
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i kind of wish the sony game death threats were over something like review scores and not social issues tho
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Feb 8, 2021 22:41
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I hate Nintendo for always having a ton of good exclusives so you can't just ignore their consoles
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Feb 8, 2021 22:41
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