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All-Camarilla Ventrue would work as well. Feel how absolutely great it is to play for the winning team and try to stay ahead of your conscience.
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Feb 10, 2021 06:36
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PoorWeather posted:Hey C/WoD thread, I'm looking for some edition/system advice. A friend of mine and I were discussing doing a vampire-themed game, but one with a different thematic framing than VtM and VtR tend to lean into that instead goes hard on the idea of Vampires as allegory for class conflict/privilege. So the narrative focus would be less on how becoming an undead monster inherently sucks and you'll inevitably do murders and lose your humanity because you're tragically compelled to by your supernatural nature, and more about how becoming an undead monster is actually materially great, and you'll inevitably do murders and lose your humanity because doing so is massively rewarded and results in extremely positive social feedback. So a game where the drama comes from having power within an unjust system, and seeing if they're willing to rock the boat despite being discouraged from doing so both mechanically and in roleplay. You also probably want to make sure that your table has buy in with your general thematic arc, in the sense of "you are all alright with exploring this topic in this context of this game." It would not be likely to come up in the near term future, but I have been in several games where I felt as if my long-term investment was wasted due to what amounted to a difference in ethical values between myself and the GM's portrayal of the world. It's not exactly a common issue, but you are taking the rare (and laudable!) course that would actually point you towards that. And! You may want to read some of the stuff on Golconda - even if you do not intend to use it there would probably be some parallels if the group at large starts going, "Wait a minute, we're cannibal assholes. But I don't want to go get a tan. What can be done?"
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Feb 10, 2021 09:49
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I have a dumb question that has probably been answered somewhere in the mass of books but are there any prometheans created through methods only possible by being made by any of the other core book classes? Like, is it possible for a fetch to be considered a promethean, or for prometheans to be made through magic, or as a result of demons going into their covers? I'm curious because I'm not sure if any of those could potentially grant the azoth spark necessary to create a promethean or if the creatures made by others through their own magical powers are inherently elevated above or otherwise removed from alchemy and azoth poo poo. I'd wonder if such a promethean would be at least partially capable of the feats bestowed by its parent or if they would become like their parent through achieving the great work.
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Feb 10, 2021 16:52
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FirstAidKite posted:I have a dumb question that has probably been answered somewhere in the mass of books but are there any prometheans created through methods only possible by being made by any of the other core book classes? Like, is it possible for a fetch to be considered a promethean, or for prometheans to be made through magic, or as a result of demons going into their covers? Sam Haight is also a Promethean.
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Feb 10, 2021 16:58
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FirstAidKite posted:I have a dumb question that has probably been answered somewhere in the mass of books but are there any prometheans created through methods only possible by being made by any of the other core book classes? Like, is it possible for a fetch to be considered a promethean, or for prometheans to be made through magic, or as a result of demons going into their covers? There are a couple mechanics/fiction conceits that would enable that, with the least complicated being Extempore (an explicit mechanical setup for a one-off no-ancestors promethean), but it's also just not THAT weird to make up a new lineage, the Night Horrors book has a couple antagonists that are from lineages that were made up pretty much purely for that antagonist. There's also Unfleshed, which is a pseudo-lineage where the Promethean isn't actually a corpse, so a Fetch that somehow got all azothic I think would qualify. That said, it's somewhat important that Prometheans often make other Prometheans, so if you have a player doing that I'd put at least a little thought into their multiplicato milestone rather than just leaving it simple. The shortest route is to look for conceits that are similar between groups, with the most obvious link (to me at least) being between Moros (who are death & matter) and Prometheans (which are corpses powered by alchemy). But Prometheans are kind of designed explicitly to play well with other supernaturals, since the Refinement of Silver is really all about "there's other things that are like humans but also supernatural, how does that reflect on my own supernaturalness and path toward becoming natural." So y'know, you've got options.
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Feb 10, 2021 17:08
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Oh I'm not running or playing it at all, I know about extempore (even came up with one myself) but I just wasn't sure if there were any examples from the books, any kind of precedent for that having happened.
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Feb 10, 2021 17:19
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It is theoretically possible but very rare, because supernatural stuff is itself relatively rare compared to normal humans and also because there’s no way to force it, so it comes down to “did this vampire actually end up a Demiurge by sheer chance?”
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Feb 10, 2021 17:48
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Doesn't the new Vampire Night Horror book have a bloodline of vampire alchemists? Seems pretty easy if Vampires can learn Alchemy for one to have made a Promethean. Also, as always, an archmaster could do it at seven dots in the relevant arcana. Probably Death/Life/Prime? Maybe Matter?
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Feb 10, 2021 18:08
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One of the possible origins for COUNT MOTHERFUCKING DRACULA (not to be confused for all the other Draculas) is that he's a Promethean so there is that.
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Feb 10, 2021 18:26
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FirstAidKite posted:I have a dumb question that has probably been answered somewhere in the mass of books but are there any prometheans created through methods only possible by being made by any of the other core book classes? Like, is it possible for a fetch to be considered a promethean, or for prometheans to be made through magic, or as a result of demons going into their covers? The position of the Promethean books when touching on this subject has always been that yes, it's as possible for non-humans to become demiurges of new lineage progenitors as it is for humans to do so, but no, it's not accomplished through their supernatural powers. Perhaps a vampire might use vitae in the desperate work of creative alchemy that steals the Divine Fire, in a way that colors the quirks of the Promethean's humours, but it's never the product of a Scale of the Dragon or blood sorcery or anything repeatable, and the more they rely on their supernatural abilities the harder it is to do. Like the work of human demiurges, it remains an act of desperate mania that calls the Divine Fire. The question of fetches and Prometheans is addressed in a unique manner in Dark Eras 2's The Seven Wonders chapter, when exposure to a vibrant Azothic radiance makes it possible for fetches to take in enough of the Divine Fire to attempt the Pilgrimage despite not being Prometheans.
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Feb 10, 2021 19:05
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Mors Rattus posted:It is theoretically possible but very rare, because supernatural stuff is itself relatively rare compared to normal humans and also because there’s no way to force it, so it comes down to “did this vampire actually end up a Demiurge by sheer chance?” The supernatural population thing is a pretty consistent problem in *OD games. My general policy has been that supernaturals have to be rare enough that whatever conspiracy enables the mundane world to operate as if vampires etc are myths is slightly believable, but you still need enough for there to be communities and violence. In Promethean this is somewhat less of a problem since they're explicitly supposed to interact with other supernaturals and be rare compared to them, but as a matter of actually playing the game in practice, the rules around athanors and mentorship turn into absolute millstones if you're trying to play like there's 100 prometheans worldwide. It's all much easier if you just have a couple dozen supernaturals in the general region of your campaign. I Am Just a Box posted:The position of the Promethean books when touching on this subject has always been that yes, it's as possible for non-humans to become demiurges of new lineage progenitors as it is for humans to do so, but no, it's not accomplished through their supernatural powers. Perhaps a vampire might use vitae in the desperate work of creative alchemy that steals the Divine Fire, in a way that colors the quirks of the Promethean's humours, but it's never the product of a Scale of the Dragon or blood sorcery or anything repeatable, and the more they rely on their supernatural abilities the harder it is to do. Like the work of human demiurges, it remains an act of desperate mania that calls the Divine Fire. drat, Changeling and Promethean own.
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Feb 10, 2021 19:45
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TheCenturion posted:Sam Haight is also a Promethean. True. Sam Haight is a self-made man.  Also a self-made Garou, ghoul, mage, ashtray... no, wait, he had help on the last one.
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Feb 10, 2021 19:45
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I assume theoretically a Promethean could become human and then get kidnapped by the Gentry and replaced with a fetch, right? If you were the unluckiest motherfucker in the world (of darkness)
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Feb 11, 2021 00:49
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Evergreen:
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Feb 11, 2021 00:53
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cptn_dr posted:I assume theoretically a Promethean could become human and then get kidnapped by the Gentry and replaced with a fetch, right? If you were the unluckiest motherfucker in the world (of darkness) Elder Hardluck goes with him because the Fae wants to craft a buddy cop story.
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Feb 11, 2021 00:57
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cptn_dr posted:I assume theoretically a Promethean could become human and then get kidnapped by the Gentry and replaced with a fetch, right? If you were the unluckiest motherfucker in the world (of darkness) gonna make a vampire prince that was a promethean like 300 years ago
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Feb 11, 2021 01:40
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cptn_dr posted:I assume theoretically a Promethean could become human and then get kidnapped by the Gentry and replaced with a fetch, right? If you were the unluckiest motherfucker in the world (of darkness) The short story that bookends the First Edition Promethean corebook is about Frankenstein's monster finding a Promethean apprentice of his Bride, his first-created progeny who turned her back on the Pilgrimage and spited him by bringing over more of his Lineage to the Hundred-Handed. The Centimani apprentice doesn't behave like she recognizes him, acting like she's just the local criminal psychologist interviewing him after an incident of mob violence. He kidnaps a local family for the leverage to lock her in with him, tries to force her to tell him what she's plotting and what his Bride has to do with it, gets violent... and she dies, crumbling in a few blows that would be nothing to a Promethean. In their years apart she'd returned to the Pilgrimage and completed it, becoming an ordinary woman with only scraps of memories of her time as a Promethean. She'd gone to school, got a job as a psychologist, and settled down. He hacks her body apart and stitches it back together as a new Promethean. He needs to know how she did it. And if she did it once, then she can do it again.
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Feb 11, 2021 01:45
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Tulip posted:gonna make a vampire prince that was a promethean like 300 years ago One of the most extreme violations in the World of Darkness. Edit: poo poo, beaten by the above story.
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Feb 11, 2021 01:45
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Who’s played Deviant
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Feb 11, 2021 02:38
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I'm running a Deviant game.
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Feb 11, 2021 06:10
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Ferrinus posted:Evergreen: I see no problems here.
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Feb 11, 2021 09:54
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I appreciate being able to choose which half of the Scion Dragon/Mask of the Mythos kickstarter you can back. Like Dragon looks cool but it's also something I can just wait to buy when it comes out. Mythos is more intriguing to me from a gameplay standpoint.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:08
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Dave Brookshaw posted:I see no problems here. You wouldn't!
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Feb 11, 2021 20:05
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Basic Chunnel posted:Who’s played Deviant Can't til they start sellin' the darn book!
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Feb 11, 2021 20:29
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Jonas Albrecht posted:Can't til they start sellin' the darn book!  It is the first White Wolf descended kickstarter I didn't back. Pretty much purely because of Beast.
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Feb 11, 2021 20:38
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Lord_Hambrose posted:
I backed it but backed out. Something about the character generation system I just bounced off of, but admittedly this is kind of a problem for me when I look at the early edition of a game before the art and such is put in.
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Feb 11, 2021 22:24
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Jonas Albrecht posted:Can't til they start sellin' the darn book! https://deviant-the-renegades.backerkit.com/hosted_preorders/207938 You can buy the backers-only PDF here for $20. It's out to backers, the post-layout book with illustrations and tables and everything. Pre-errata, but you'll get the post-errata version for free when they update it. (You can order the Prestige Edition hardcover too if you want. Those haven't been printed yet.)
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Feb 11, 2021 23:17
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LatwPIAT posted:I know late 2e/early Revised also tapped a lot into the popularity of hidden cabals and millenialism that was really taking off in the same period, as the turn of the millennium approached. It's really telling how Bloodlines just perfectly captures that part of the setting by aspiring to be Deus Ex, a game in an entirely different genre in an entirely different setting. You're right, and now I have to reinstall it, again.
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Feb 12, 2021 07:13
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Scion 2E question - more of a brainstorming thing. I will be running a shortish story arc to let my GM of several years take a break and actually play, and I have a loose idea of a structure involving investigating a few hazardous Terra Incognitae. (I will plan in more detail after we do a session zero on Sunday.) However, I kind of know what I want the ultimate goal or source to be -- I want to tie it in to the Roswell/Grey mythology, but I am not sure what Titans, or potentially Mythos-entities-as-constructed, would work best for something like this. I know the kind of go-to analogy for the Greys has been unseelie style faeries which is kind of my, "I can't think of anything better or more bizarre" fallback. But what else might serve?
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Feb 12, 2021 12:37
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Nessus posted:Scion 2E question - more of a brainstorming thing. Extradimensional actual aliens whose bizarre tech lets them compete against Scions? It could either be a big reveal that helps defeat a threat, or unveils a larger problem they were fleeing from their home dimension. No pantheon at all!
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Feb 12, 2021 13:52
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Nessus posted:Scion 2E question - more of a brainstorming thing. All Myths Are True doesn't just apply to human myths. Somewhere out there in the Milky Way there's a species that believes their Gods live on the third planet of a yellow star in their night sky, and they're right. GimpInBlack fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Feb 12, 2021 |
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Feb 12, 2021 14:33
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Nessus posted:Scion 2E question - more of a brainstorming thing.
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Feb 12, 2021 14:50
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A Scion Babies Halloween gone horribly awry.
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Feb 12, 2021 15:04
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That Old Tree posted:A Scion Babies Halloween gone horribly awry. Scion babies we'll make your dreams come true Scion babies the old ones come for yooou
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Feb 12, 2021 15:30
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C:tL 2e mostly drops the pledgecrafting rules that, while easily exploitable, were one of the easiest ways to really get into the web of weird obligations and promises and weird fairytale rule-following in 1e because if you broke one it'd jump right up and smack you right in the face with Merits evaporating alongside active punishments. It's a huge loss between editions, and it's a weird change because they went and put comparable stuff into Demon anyway.LatwPIAT posted:I vaguely recall the Kickstarter campaign showing off the style guide for writers on CtL2e, and how one of the things writers were advised to do was to avoid detailing edge cases of powers, because every table will play the game differently. Sadly I can't find the preview document anymore to confirm whether that was the case or just something my brain has made up, but I remember the attitude of avoiding detail in the rules shocking me at the time. CoD Conditions are just a mess, mechanically and conceptually, and I can't help but feel that most of that comes from the basic idea of trying to shoehorn in "resolve to gain a beat" on top of a system also being used to track status conditions. Actually, most of my most blatant complaints about CoD are beat-related in general, like how Aspirations work in direct conflict to any group that wants the GM to provide mystery stuff and plot twists mid-session. Roadie fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Feb 14, 2021 |
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Feb 14, 2021 11:07
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Roadie posted:CoD Conditions are just a mess, mechanically and conceptually, and I can't help but feel that most of that comes from the basic idea of trying to shoehorn in "resolve to gain a beat" on top of a system also being used to track status conditions. They're just an evolution of how drawbacks were treated in 1e, "if it causes problems for you then you gain 1xp". It's the chaining of one condition to another that makes it a hassle, as well as certain powers referencing their effect as "Dominate causes the 'Dominated' condition" instead of neatly summarising themselves when nothing else written causes 'Dominated'.
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Feb 14, 2021 13:35
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Easily the worst offenses of COD broadly are in layout/editing, and conditions are (as mentioned) a very significant contributor to that. There's something really frustrating about it - the books all have a lot of effort and expense put into making them look pretty and stylish, but that love doesn't extend to making the books useful for either learning or reference. Which gives the whole thing an overwhelming sense of sloppiness. Related but not actually important just kind of funny to me - in Promethean, the Osirans are "the only lineage claiming diving ancestry." Which is both a typo and a pretty funny pun given that the Osirans are the watery ones.
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Feb 14, 2021 14:41
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bewilderment posted:They're just an evolution of how drawbacks were treated in 1e, "if it causes problems for you then you gain 1xp". Don't forget all the Geist powers that give you a condition with points on it when you activate it, please see the back of the book for what the condition and points actually do.
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Feb 14, 2021 16:35
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That Old Tree posted:Extradimensional actual aliens whose bizarre tech lets them compete against Scions? It could either be a big reveal that helps defeat a threat, or unveils a larger problem they were fleeing from their home dimension. No pantheon at all! The big twist is that it's just a bunch of Mi-Gos that got lost LARPing.
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Feb 14, 2021 17:17
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I'm finally reading Scion and mostly like what I see. Kinda puzzled that they did the nWoD thing where Athletics is an all-around useful traversal and physical labor skill... but also usable for low-tech ranged attacks, while there's a separate Firearms skill that does nothing but operate guns, and a Close Combat skill for all close-ranged combat (except that apparently, despite implications otherwise in the skill list itself, you use Athletics to grapple?) Why isn't it just Athletics to move yourself or other things around, Close Combat to punch or stab, and Ranged Combat to throw or shoot?
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Feb 15, 2021 20:37
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