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I blame Adol
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Feb 8, 2021 00:45
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Snooze Cruise posted:olivier listens to trueanon podcast SPOILERS FOR CROSSBELL GAMES To be fair, in the Trails universe, it is literally true that a secretive cult of elites torture children to death to harvest a chemical from them to turn themselves into immortal superhumans so QAnon would make considerably more sense in their universe than it does ours. U-DO Burger posted:pretty hosed up that estelle supports the monarchy This is somewhat disingenuous, especially compared to the system in place in Erebonia. Liberl is a Constitutional Monarchy, with much of the state power belonging to elected mayors. (Though, the position of Mayor is frequently de facto hereditary, this seems to be because the mayors were quite popular. When you throw the one mayor in jail, the town fairly rapidly gets to work on holding a new set of elections.) Lying to the mayors about the Queen's intent with regards to succession, and preventing the mayors from speaking with the queen was a key piece of Richard's attempted coup. The autocrats were the bad guys in Sky, make no mistake.
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Feb 8, 2021 00:50
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Supremezero posted:Is it the minority? Sure. like, are there right-wing otaku? obviously. is there media that panders to those types? obviously. is there some very successful stuff that does that? sure. but i dont at all get why that immediately becomes the default, especially without any qualification of what 'majority' or 'minority' mean. are we talking raw numbers? cultural cache? both? how do we define what's rightwing/leftist, anyway? it's just one of those things people immediately cede ground on, like yeah, of course the majority of ___ is rightwing, but that's not really true.
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Feb 8, 2021 01:00
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anyway, the ys stuff sounds dumb but id attribute it way more to 7th grade level 'heh, what if we made a TWIST on what you thought was good,' since the whole theme of ys 9 is like, twisted fairy tales/things that seem good being bad. like adol is the conquering hero but actually hes a wanted criminal, and he used to have red hair but now its BLUE, etc. i doubt they thought that deeply about the political implications. what if robin hood... was in the wrong? that said people are free to dunk on it. that said that said, ys and trails have different writers im pretty sure.
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Feb 8, 2021 01:02
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Ys more like Yiis
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Feb 8, 2021 01:19
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I think that was my post. I was trying to make a dumb joke in regards to hoping Falcom stops talking about politics or whatever. Because like I do think people talking about Ys IX's writing as Falcom's politics is the wrong way of looking at it since as far as I know the Trails games have a different writer from Ys IX and I don't think it's like the entire company that holds these views. Oh I would agree too yeah. Trails has some eye rolley bits but I don't remember anything on the level of what is being describe in Ys and I think for the most part its fine in those aspects. Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 01:34
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Ys Seven and Napishtim were all about capitalism ruining everything, so I could believe that this unfortunate writing in IX is unintentional
Hwurmp fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 01:44
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Hwurmp posted:Ys Seven and Napishtim were all about capitalism ruining everything, so I could believe that this unfortunate writing in IX is unintentional It's been over a decade since Seven, maybe they've been taken over by chuds.
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Feb 8, 2021 02:29
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Ignoring how dumb that is to begin with, the only game that's been strongly credited their younger staff is Tokyo Xanadu, and even in that case iunno if that extends to direction and writing.
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Feb 8, 2021 02:33
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It's not cool that CS4 puts that one 10 AP bonus condition fight immediately after another boss fight at the end of Act 1! Fortunately only took two tries. First try I was hosed over by an S-Craft critting one of them but not the other. Hwurmp posted:Ys Seven and Napishtim were all about capitalism ruining everything, so I could believe that this unfortunate writing in IX is unintentional Some degree of "bootstraps" mentality seems to just be a sort of "default" ideology in Japan (which itself doesn't really have the same sort of partisan divide as the US due to perpetual domination of the Lib Dems) that people who otherwise don't care much about politics still believe (though more in a "this is common sense" sort of way than a directly ideological one). That sort of thing isn't really mutually exclusive with someone also believing "some corporations can be evil" (which is sometimes confused with an anti-capitalism critique, though I haven't played Ys VII so I'm not commenting on that). While the same is effectively true in the US, there's at least some partisan tendency to not explicitly say things like "if you give people money they'll be lazy" (due to the association of such opinions with the Republicans Party).
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Feb 8, 2021 02:35
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Ytlaya posted:Some degree of "bootstraps" mentality seems to just be a sort of "default" ideology in Japan (which itself doesn't really have the same sort of partisan divide as the US due to perpetual domination of the Lib Dems) that people who otherwise don't care much about politics still believe (though more in a "this is common sense" sort of way than a directly ideological one). That sort of thing isn't really mutually exclusive with someone also believing "some corporations can be evil" (which is sometimes confused with an anti-capitalism critique, though I haven't played Ys VII so I'm not commenting on that). Yeah, that's the issue here. They aren't intentionally giving political commentary, they're just giving their "common sense opinion" that happens to be aligned with a fairly right-wing worldview. As far as the writers were concerned, they probably though it was an uncontroversial, non-political statement. There is no practical difference between what people consider common sense and their politics though.
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Feb 8, 2021 02:43
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I like the Gifts unlocking new areas more than the usual Ys style of unlocking accessories for, like, climbing vined walls, walking on mud, walking through spikes, breathing underwater, etc.
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Feb 8, 2021 02:45
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Endorph posted:anyway, the ys stuff sounds dumb but id attribute it way more to 7th grade level 'heh, what if we made a TWIST on what you thought was good,' since the whole theme of ys 9 is like, twisted fairy tales/things that seem good being bad. like adol is the conquering hero but actually hes a wanted criminal, and he used to have red hair but now its BLUE, etc. i doubt they thought that deeply about the political implications. what if robin hood... was in the wrong? that said people are free to dunk on it. "Ys 9 is all about Fairytales being twisted" You win, this is almost assuredly the entire truth.
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Feb 8, 2021 02:46
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Endorph posted:anyway, the ys stuff sounds dumb but id attribute it way more to 7th grade level 'heh, what if we made a TWIST on what you thought was good,' since the whole theme of ys 9 is like, twisted fairy tales/things that seem good being bad. like adol is the conquering hero but actually hes a wanted criminal, and he used to have red hair but now its BLUE, etc. i doubt they thought that deeply about the political implications. what if robin hood... was in the wrong? that said people are free to dunk on it. It's also not 100% germane to the discussion of the thread of Falcom games, but it perhaps requires noting in more places that Robin Hood is by no means a communist or socialist folk hero, but is more accurately a libertarian folk hero. The whole "Robs from the rich and gives to the poor" was a bit of a latter invention. In the beginning it was more "Robin Hood robs from the rich and not the poor" and also "Robin Hood might donate some of his stolen money to you if he likes you, which is much more likely to be true if you're poor". Mostly it was "Robin was a man who did not much care for anyone else's authority, but still very strictly enforced his own" and seemed to rebel against the notion of the Church's authority, as well as that of the local sheriff. Even the more later stories that invented a bunch of things about the character never strayed too overwhelmingly far from this perspective. Robin Hood, by no means gave a poo poo about class struggle or the working class, ever. He just didn't like authority (except his own). The "....and gives to the poor" invention on the character is still "personal charity" for use of wealth, as opposed to "an organized working class." Robin Hood would be opposed to that system of government because it is a government. He wasn't a bandit because he gave a poo poo about the lowest classes (and was, himself, a Yeoman, so a fairly high class peasant), he was a bandit because he didn't want to work for someone else at all. Though it'd be interesting how he'd feel about the US take on Libertarianism---I doubt he'd much care for corporations, but he'd almost certainly be one of the "Free men of the Land", informing the Nottingham County Sheriff that he cannot so be ticketed because he is not a driver, yay, merely a travl'r. So perhaps its most fair to portray him as an anarchist. Thank you for attending my TED talk about Robin the Hood. EDIT And for the sake of clarity to Endorph: I'm also not saying you, specifically, were saying Robin Hood was a socialist or communist folk hero, just that he came up several times in the discussion and I'm quoting you, specifically, because you were the most recent person to mention him at all and it was convenient. Veryslightlymad fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 02:51
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Agean90 posted:so I heard ys 9 runs like poo poo on ps 4, anyone know if this is tru runs basically fine on a pro, for what thats worth. definitely not perfect, but not distractingly bad SettingSun posted:I get some strange hitching in Ys IX around Balduq but the cutscenes with Aprilis preceding the Grimwald encounters run VERY poorly. Like something out of the PS2. It's bizarre. those seem like they run at thirty and are pre-rendered at a lower resolution or something, they're really weird.
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Feb 8, 2021 02:59
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just ran into the Ys Origin boss callback in IX, very much enjoyed that.
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Feb 8, 2021 03:02
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"robs from everyone, gives to his friends", sums up early robin hood
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Feb 8, 2021 03:11
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death of the author maybe the OG Robin Hood writers didn't mean that, but that's what we can take away from it
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Feb 8, 2021 03:20
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I mean, the game doesn't allude to Robin Hood in any specific way whatsoever, we're just using "Robin Hood" as a shorthand to describe the charitable thief archetype.
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Feb 8, 2021 03:23
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Junpei posted:death of the author death of the author isn't applicable here? we take that from later robin hood folklore, which is the vast majority of robin hood folklore. you are just saying words now... Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 03:40
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uhhhh... How long should we wait until we can just say Krysha, Credo, Amenoma, Yufa and Jules instead of calling them White Cat, Hawk, Doll, Bull and Renegade?
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Feb 8, 2021 03:49
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Clarste posted:Yeah, that's the issue here. They aren't intentionally giving political commentary, they're just giving their "common sense opinion" that happens to be aligned with a fairly right-wing worldview. As far as the writers were concerned, they probably though it was an uncontroversial, non-political statement. Yeah, that's why I said "directly ideological" - obviously these things are all still ideology/politics, but in a way where the person expressing the opinions is completely oblivious that they're not just common sense reality.
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Feb 8, 2021 04:37
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As I've finally gotten off my lazy rear end to find the first post, instead of merely the most recent post:King of Solomon posted:Even if you're catering to right wingers, you don't have to put "Robin Hood was bad, actually" in your video game. It would appear that the original statement didn't mention socialism at all, and was just an implication that the right wing would consider Robin Hood a bad character. And it's absolutely right; they probably would. Anarchism is generally considered the extreme left wing. Although, later editions of Robin Hood sometimes had/have some seriously right wing sentiments to lampshade his anarchist views. With several saying he supported the "true" king, Richard over John, or others getting heavy into nationalist sentiment from some kind of Normans/Saxons conflict. In these his anarchic views are shown to be justifiable under the pretense of "It's ok, he's only opposed to the illegitimate authority" But since I suppose I brought it up: He's nonetheless never portrayed as a class-struggle socialist, except maybe as some kind of anarcho-libertarian. The hundreds of years of works on the character are incredibly consistent in this portrayal, even as the character has wildly diverged from his older works in several ways. Also, somewhat crucially, buying into the narrative that the summary of Robin Hood of "He robs from the rich and gives to the poor" is intrinsically socialist in nature undermines socialism because it frames socialism as robbery, even if it is romanticizing the notion by associating it with a folk hero. My argument is that a hypothetical heavily socialist utopia, where the citizenry lived in absolute equality would nonetheless be opposed by Robin Hood, because, ultimately, he just wants to do what he wants. He might or might not rob anybody, but he'd still live in the woods and not pay his taxes. I think it got brought up because the similar character sees that people given money become complacent and lazy, which  is pretty gross. Less to do about Robin Hood the character and more a fairly toxic philosophy about money and labor in general. Both Japan and the United States have a fairly toxic view of the values of work and of leisure.And I'm sorry about my random topic derailment, I was seeing Robin Hood (the character) come up a lot recently because of the whole Gamestop nonsense from earlier, and in particular the bizarre conception of Robin Hood as a socialist, so, like, it's an argument that I've had swirling around in my head that was suddenly relevant again soon enough for my argument to still be in my head. I guess I was projecting onto this topic a point I wanted to make a week ago. Ytlaya posted:Yeah, that's why I said "directly ideological" - obviously these things are all still ideology/politics, but in a way where the person expressing the opinions is completely oblivious that they're not just common sense reality. Alas, not every work is as aware of these things as Disco Elysium. ~~~~~~~ Junpei posted:uhhhh... I still refer to the final party member of Dragon Quest XI as "McKnight", but that's mostly because I think it's funny to. If it were a more popular series, I'd say "Wait until the fan art starts spoiling everything anyhow"
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Feb 8, 2021 04:51
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I think I speak for everyone when I say, post as much as you want about mythology and folk tales at any time.
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Feb 8, 2021 08:03
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The russel Crowe Robin Hood was bad. The fox one is ok.
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Feb 8, 2021 17:07
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Well I finished Ys 9, it was mostly good apart from the bad stuff, kinda worse than 8 in every respect though. Anyone know who all the voices at the end were? One was obviously Dana but I'm not even sure which one on that lol
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Feb 8, 2021 17:52
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I just realized that I can barely remember the Ys 4 party members I think in my head I literally just call them "Kirk Thorton", "Cristina Vee", "Sean Chiplock", "Cassandra Lee Morris" and "Wendee Lee"
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Feb 8, 2021 19:46
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I think I get what you guys were talking about their being too many party members in CS4. I almost didn’t have enough accessories to go around for the Black Workshop raid and the quartz situation was so bad I actually had to use the defense and shield quartz. Also, the fact that Machias and Jusis have no unique dialogue if you take them to Crossbell is bullshit.
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Feb 8, 2021 21:03
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Which Ys game should I play out of the newer ones? I played and loved Origin and Oath but didn't keep up with the series after that
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Feb 10, 2021 13:25
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8. 7 and oath in felghana are pretty much just worse versions of 8. you should also consider playing 6 which is older than both of those ones you mentioned but still pretty good.
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Feb 10, 2021 13:54
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Amppelix posted:8. 7 and oath in felghana are pretty much just worse versions of 8. Celceta is the party-based game that preceded 8, not Felghana. And I assume one of those 8s is supposed to be a 9?
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Feb 10, 2021 13:59
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how is celceta? i'm playing though 7 currently and just thought I'd see what opinions are like
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Feb 10, 2021 15:01
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A lot better than 7, not as good as 8. I enjoyed it but it lacks the island exploration/basebuilding that put 8 over the top so it's kind of in this weird middle area of Ys for me.
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Feb 10, 2021 15:13
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fwiw celceta interested me a lot less than 7 actually. i finished 7 despite it being excruciatingly too long but i dropped celceta like 10 hours in and have felt no desire to go back.Admiral H. Curtiss posted:Celceta is the party-based game that preceded 8, not Felghana. And I assume one of those 8s is supposed to be a 9?
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Feb 10, 2021 16:38
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I’m playing 7 now and just kinda going through it just to do it. It’s really clunky and I wouldn’t recommend it unless you need to play every Ys.
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Feb 10, 2021 17:19
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Overbite posted:I’m playing 7 now and just kinda going through it just to do it. It’s really clunky and I wouldn’t recommend it unless you need to play every Ys. How far along are you? It does get a little better as you diversify your party, but it never gets as smooth as Celceta, 8, or 9.
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Feb 10, 2021 17:20
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I am currently going around punching dragons. Also one of my main complaints was about how slow gaining SP was and how I would just mash attack most of the time until I accidentally found out that I could hold attack to do a power move that gives a ton of SP. now I can actually use skills. If the game told me this then I must have forgotten. I played the first hour or so like half a year before I picked it up and continued from where I left off.
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Feb 10, 2021 17:23
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Paperhouse posted:Which Ys game should I play out of the newer ones? I played and loved Origin and Oath but didn't keep up with the series after that Honestly it depends a lot on what you liked about those games because the new ones have basically nothing in common with the solo Ys games other than the core combat and even then it's been spruced up with a bunch of different damage types, skill, flash move/guards, etc. 8 and 9 are these big, bloated "trying very hard to be a Trails game" RPGs which sometimes land and sometimes don't, 7 introduces the party system and is a little clunky in places but otherwise is pretty snappy and serviceable (except at the very very end), and Celceta is more refined but frankly kinda boring. I also got like 10 hours in and just never came back to it. All of the new ones other than 9 more or less throw out the platforming aspect of Oath/Origin if that matters to you.
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Feb 10, 2021 17:24
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https://twitter.com/Twinfinite/status/1359551511139868672
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Feb 10, 2021 18:40
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About done with ys9 and it was nice that we finally got some outside and different biomes and I'm waiting for big spoilers Punished Crimson King memes. I'm giving this game 70 points unless it pulls something out it's rear end. I need to go back and play Celceta, bought on PS4 when it came out. Played for about 8 hrs lost power and realized it did not do any autosaving... oof.
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Feb 10, 2021 18:53
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