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If you work at a very large company, the nameless HR drone that might get that call is likely only going to confirm that you work there from date X to present, and possibly whether or not they would hire you again. Few large companies will disclose much more than that for fear of any sort of liability or blowback.
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Feb 3, 2021 19:41
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E: ^most large companies will only say that you worked there from X to Y. Put your two weeks in once you pass everything and have a start date.
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Feb 3, 2021 19:42
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spwrozek posted:Put your two weeks in once you pass everything and have a start date. Yep! Just wondering if the call to my current employer would somehow flag me in their system or something. Sounds like "probably not", though. Edit: Is employment verified in this matter with something as simple as when doing credit checks?
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Feb 3, 2021 19:43
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Have they told you they're going to contact your current employer? Most large companies use an automated service like TheWorkNumber.com to verify employment. The company I just started with used a 3rd party company to verify my employment history, and I provided some redacted W-2 statements, and a redacted current pay stub and that was all they needed.
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Feb 3, 2021 20:11
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Zarin posted:Question for the thread: I've recently accepted an offer, and now it's time to move forward with a background screen, drug test, etc.
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Feb 3, 2021 20:19
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Zarin posted:Question for the thread: I've recently accepted an offer, and now it's time to move forward with a background screen, drug test, etc. Usually you should tell them not to contact your current employer, and they'll respect that request.
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Feb 3, 2021 20:22
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If you've already accepted the offer having them find out by your future employer calling to verify is a hell of a power move though
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Feb 3, 2021 20:32
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skipdogg posted:Have they told you they're going to contact your current employer? A third party company is handling this background check. Part of their process is to contact the current employer; I can ask them not to, but then that makes extra paperwork for me (and could potentially slow things down). Thanatosian posted:Employment checks get done for things other than switching jobs, like loan applications. Excellent. Of course, if they say "We're from NewHireVerificationCompany, tell me about this person", then that gives the game away I suppose. (I don't know if they would announce who they are or not) Chainclaw posted:Usually you should tell them not to contact your current employer, and they'll respect that request. Yeah. I'm just not sure if it's worth the extra hassle or not. I was curious if people in this thread generally make that request, or just let the background verification people just do whatever. PIZZA.BAT posted:If you've already accepted the offer having them find out by your future employer calling to verify is a hell of a power move though Hah, true, although I'm not sure I'm a PowerMove(TM) kinda guy 
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Feb 3, 2021 21:01
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Yeah I make it clear that they have no permission to contact my current employer and I would be pissed if they did it anyway.
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Feb 3, 2021 22:05
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Yeah, you should tell them not to contact your current employer. Offers can fall through for any number of reasons and if they've now flagged for your employer you were leaving, could be a bad look depending on your corporate culture.
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Feb 3, 2021 22:49
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Zarin posted:A third party company is handling this background check. Part of their process is to contact the current employer; I can ask them not to, but then that makes extra paperwork for me (and could potentially slow things down). Keep in mind that verifying employment is a component of several processes such as renting an apartment, buying a house, etc. so it's not necessarily a red flag. I'd be flabbergasted if a company doing the inquiring revealed anything about why they were checking and even more shocked if data made it back from a third party about a specific employee.
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Feb 4, 2021 00:13
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BeastOfExmoor posted:Keep in mind that verifying employment is a component of several processes such as renting an apartment, buying a house, etc. so it's not necessarily a red flag. I'd be flabbergasted if a company doing the inquiring revealed anything about why they were checking and even more shocked if data made it back from a third party about a specific employee.
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Feb 4, 2021 01:18
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You can absolutely tell the difference between a housing application check and the like, and an employment verification check. The housing ones are a pain in the rear end and the people requesting them make it sound like you have nothing better to do so snap loving to it, while employment is "hi this is so and so from x employment check services, we wanted to ask you some questions about employee." If it's a small to mid company yeah it'll stand out, and depending on the relationship between HR and your manager they might get a message about it. When I got one I would give our ops manager a heads up because that means there might be a staffing hole to fill in the near future. If you're at a larger one it's done through a third party and nobody will have a clue, they have more important things to worry about.
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Feb 4, 2021 08:01
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Zarin posted:A third party company is handling this background check. Part of their process is to contact the current employer; I can ask them not to, but then that makes extra paperwork for me (and could potentially slow things down). You can just sign up for an account on the IRS website and pull your transcripts from the years that you worked there to prove it. If you have them ready it slows things down by like... an hour. I've had to do this twice because a company that I worked for went bankrupt and by the time I was out of unemployment, it no longer existed so there was no way to contact them. If you haven't settled your pay for the new job yet (which I hadn't the first time I had to do this), they accepted the transcripts with the income blacked out without any issue. It sounds like you have settled it though so you might even be able to send those right over. But yeah, I have never ever had a company contact my current job when I've said no. The only time I put a reference for my current job on an application was when I had a manager that I was *already* friends with before I worked there and they were encouraging me to apply to other jobs because our company was underpaying me and after like 2 review cycles of her trying to convince management to give me more money they kept refusing. I doubt that this is your situation.
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Feb 4, 2021 15:59
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m0therfux0r posted:You can just sign up for an account on the IRS website and pull your transcripts from the years that you worked there to prove it. If you have them ready it slows things down by like... an hour. I've had to do this twice because a company that I worked for went bankrupt and by the time I was out of unemployment, it no longer existed so there was no way to contact them. If you haven't settled your pay for the new job yet (which I hadn't the first time I had to do this), they accepted the transcripts with the income blacked out without any issue. It sounds like you have settled it though so you might even be able to send those right over. Good info! You are correct that that is not my situation, haha. Yeah, I was trying to decide if I should allow the verification service to to contact my current employer, and it sounds like it's probably not worth it.
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Feb 4, 2021 16:02
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Dumb idea check: My field is rather niche so i've been trying to break out of it. I had a job lined up but covid nuked it. Year end reviews are coming up and for years I've been trying to grow at my current job. But I've been cockblocked by a gatekeeping rear end in a top hat. The owner knows this, and this is who I have my reviews with. The owner doesn't push the issue too hard because I think he feels suck with the gatekeeper as he is good at what he does. So I can't grow. Do I mention I was going to leave? Or do I just quietly keep looking for another job where I can grow?
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Feb 4, 2021 17:37
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Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.
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You don't mention you're going to leave until you've accepted an offer and are leaving.
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Feb 4, 2021 17:50
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Parallelwoody posted:You don't mention you're going to leave until you've accepted an offer and are leaving. Thanks.
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Feb 4, 2021 18:05
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Parallelwoody posted:You don't mention you're going to leave until you've accepted an offer and are leaving. 1000x this. Companies will treat you as mercenary, so you must act like a mercenary. At-will laws working as intended
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Feb 4, 2021 18:12
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The successful paths I've seen for that are: pitching something unrelated and then you're out from under on something greenfield. Having a friendly manager in another group who will take you on. They need the clout and balls to fight for it if necessary. Leave the company, come back in a new role/division.
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Feb 4, 2021 23:02
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Parallelwoody posted:You don't mention you're going to leave until you've accepted an offer and are leaving. Just had this conversation with my boss. He's afraid of a brain drain because we probably aren't getting raises this year. I told him I was not considering leaving (the truth) but also he should not believe me because I likely wouldn't tell him if I was. That concerned him but he did say that if I decided it was time he would be willing to be a reference. That surprised me a little bit, but we have had a good working relationship thus far, so I don't think he is trying to beguile me here. Of the three tech jobs I've had, none ended up requiring references. One was out of college but gave me no one to use for the second, and the latest one never asked. Do references matter anymore, especially considering that a valuable one could potentially sabotage my current employment? I think the answer is "NO" but that seems odd. Does that mean everyone uses references from two jobs ago?
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Feb 4, 2021 23:20
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Magnetic North posted:Of the three tech jobs I've had, none ended up requiring references. One was out of college but gave me no one to use for the second, and the latest one never asked. Do references matter anymore, especially considering that a valuable one could potentially sabotage my current employment? I think the answer is "NO" but that seems odd. Does that mean everyone uses references from two jobs ago? At least in my corner of tech, no one asks for or calls references. Just a run of the mill public records background check for an accepted offer. You either pass the interview or you don't.
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Feb 4, 2021 23:26
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Magnetic North posted:Just had this conversation with my boss. He's afraid of a brain drain because we probably aren't getting raises this year. I told him I was not considering leaving (the truth) but also he should not believe me because I likely wouldn't tell him if I was. That concerned him but he did say that if I decided it was time he would be willing to be a reference. That surprised me a little bit, but we have had a good working relationship thus far, so I don't think he is trying to beguile me here. Most of the places I've been have asked for references. A couple have called them. I've also gotten reference calls for former colleagues.
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Feb 4, 2021 23:33
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One time the ceo of the small company I was joining called my reference and then complained to me about what a dick the guy was on the phone and made me give another one. It was pretty funny. The guy, my previous boss, offered to give me a reference and then did the very corporate "I refuse to say anything more than HR approved facts" thing which was weird but oh well, it worked out.
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Feb 4, 2021 23:51
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Really just depends on the position and the company. When I worked for a big hospital corp I would sometimes see references requested as part of the background check even for nurses which made me lol. Not sure if the recruiter wasn't paying attention when ordering the background check (very possible) or the site actually required it. I interviewed with a daycare company and they called my references before I even interviewed.
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Feb 5, 2021 05:58
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Let's make a deal.
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Feb 6, 2021 19:38
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How do you all figure out what an appropriate for a job salary is?I have an offer from a company who claims they "never do negotiations" and am feeling lowballed for the position. Like when we started talking the salary range floor that was being discussed was 10 grand higher than where we're coming in at now. I have till Friday to do an in person walk through of their offer and I'd rather be well armed before going in and asking for more.
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Feb 10, 2021 14:10
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To figure out market rate you need to do some research from the usual websites and ideally have a contact or two to ping about it. Based on what you said you should tell them to go gently caress themselves. Working there would be hell.
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Feb 10, 2021 14:22
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Barudak posted:How do you all figure out what an appropriate for a job salary is?I have an offer from a company who claims they "never do negotiations" and am feeling lowballed for the position. Like when we started talking the salary range floor that was being discussed was 10 grand higher than where we're coming in at now. I have till Friday to do an in person walk through of their offer and I'd rather be well armed before going in and asking for more. levels.fyi Also, "your previously stated floor was significantly higher than this offer" is a lovely point. Maybe append it with "I was hoping to be somewhere in the middle of that range, which was X-Y, and if you can't make that work then I don't see the point in burning more of our time." Then be prepared to walk away.
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Feb 10, 2021 14:24
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Barudak posted:How do you all figure out what an appropriate for a job salary is?I have an offer from a company who claims they "never do negotiations" and am feeling lowballed for the position. Like when we started talking the salary range floor that was being discussed was 10 grand higher than where we're coming in at now. I have till Friday to do an in person walk through of their offer and I'd rather be well armed before going in and asking for more. Hard agree with Eric- you'll always be underpaid at this place and even if we aren't considering pay, working there will probably be terrible. I'd pass on the company entirely simply based on that impression, but if you're unemployed or desperately just need some income right now like many people, you could take it, but keep looking for a new job the entire time and don't be afraid to move on if you get a better offer somewhere else, even if you've only been working there for a few weeks.
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Feb 10, 2021 14:46
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Hey thread. I've been lurking here the last ~month or so, and am curious if all this advice holds equally for a freelancer. I have independent working relationships with a number of companies at a number of different rates, and there is ALWAYS a "what is your hourly/day rate?" question early on in the process. I've worked with 6 different companies over the last year, so I'm getting a good sense of, if not how high I can go, at least how low is too low. Every one of these conversations has started with me saying a number. I have a former client coming back to me right now, asking if I can do another project with them at a rate that is about 15% lower than the rate my current client is paying me. I'd like to negotiate with this former client for a higher rate, at or above what my current client is paying me. Is "Well, I have current opportunities at X, so to consider working with you again you'd have to meet or beat X" useful, or breaking the law of never say a number? If that's not the way to go about it, how do I start the "I'd like to renegotiate my rate" conversation sans numbers? Thanks for your advice, it's been very helpful to read your advice to one another and success / less-than-success stories.
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Feb 10, 2021 16:52
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Just tell them what your rate is. It's not complicated. They already said a number so you're not violating any rules by countering. After you tell them what your rate is they either accept it or counter. At which point you either accept it or counter.
PIZZA.BAT fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 10, 2021 16:55
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Barudak posted:How do you all figure out what an appropriate for a job salary is?I have an offer from a company who claims they "never do negotiations" and am feeling lowballed for the position. Like when we started talking the salary range floor that was being discussed was 10 grand higher than where we're coming in at now. I have till Friday to do an in person walk through of their offer and I'd rather be well armed before going in and asking for more. If they told you they "always do golden showers" would you be trying to figure out how to work there? Tell them you need salary range floor + $20k and if they balk tell them to go gently caress themselves.
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Feb 10, 2021 17:02
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I think something that may be useful to add to the OP would be something along the lines of getting comfortable with the concept of walking or saying no. We see a lot of people who are mostly getting it but it seems like they're getting tunnel vision on the current negotiation without realizing that a valid exit is just walking from it entirely. Something that goes in hand with, 'Know when you've won' that would be something like, 'Know when to walk'. edit: I'm not claiming that this is something easy to do either, especially for someone who's new to this. Just that it needs to be something to keep in mind. For me one of the best things that led me to securing larger offers and better jobs was knowing how to pick and choose opportunities and cut bait early when discussions aren't panning out like I expected. Similarly when you're early in your career it's helpful to feel out opportunities / take interviews even if you have no intention of following through for no other reason then it will help you get used to rejecting offers outright. It's something that feels unnatural at first and many HR departments do everything in their power to make it even harder. PIZZA.BAT fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 10, 2021 17:10
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PIZZA.BAT posted:I think something that may be useful to add to the OP would be something along the lines of getting comfortable with the concept of walking or saying no. We see a lot of people who are mostly getting it but it seems like they're getting tunnel vision on the current negotiation without realizing that a valid exit is just walking from it entirely. Something that goes in hand with, 'Know when you've won' that would be something like, 'Know when to walk'. I agree that we should add it and don't have a good expression handy. But turning down offers / otherwise letting bad opportunities die is essential to negotiating. If someone efforts up good prose I'll definitely add to OP.
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Feb 10, 2021 17:44
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Muscle Tracer posted:Hey thread. I've been lurking here the last ~month or so, and am curious if all this advice holds equally for a freelancer. I have independent working relationships with a number of companies at a number of different rates, and there is ALWAYS a "what is your hourly/day rate?" question early on in the process. I've worked with 6 different companies over the last year, so I'm getting a good sense of, if not how high I can go, at least how low is too low. Every one of these conversations has started with me saying a number. You're a freelancer. As someone who semi frequently buys freelance consulting work I would expect you to offer me a price first. Just tell them what they need to pay you, I don't think you have to justify it at all. "For this project, my rate will be $X." If they push back saying that your rate is higher than it was before, you can either try to justify it or you can tell them "well, you know the price and where to find me." Your proposed approach seems very weaselly and kind of passive and I would respect you less than if you just told me your hourly rate. If I think your hourly rate is too high, I'll let you know and you can decide if you want to negotiate or not.
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Feb 10, 2021 19:08
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IMO unless there are exceptional circumstances it's a bad idea for a freelancer to negotiate their rates. This is the price, this is the value you get for it, hire me or don't.
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Feb 10, 2021 19:17
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Agreed. It can be tough to price increase on longstanding clients, but you just gotta tell them in advance that you're raising rates, and accept that they may not go along with you. (Your clients are likely raising their prices for whatever goods or services they provide over time, so it's not like a horrid alien practice that they don't understand)
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Feb 10, 2021 19:29
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Different scenario than a corporate one, but when my PT raises her rates she tells me what the new rates are going to be and then I decide to re-up or not. One time when she told my SO, my SO said "hey that's a big raise" and she lowered the rate for us by like 10$/hr. I would have just paid her anyway though so she cost herself money for nothing. Totally agree with the above approaches. "Your rate is too high, it's over my budget" "Ok, well you know how much value I deliver, so maybe we can look at me doing scope - X, so that we get the total amount you pay me into your budget, without me lowering my rates or giving you free work" but not verbatim obviously
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Feb 10, 2021 19:50
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Freelancing/contracting is also somewhat paradoxical in that the higher rates you charge the better customers you tend to get. You have to view a freelancing position as a business-to-business transaction, not a business-to-individual transaction. You are a business and should know what your going rate is. And it should be high out the gate because you can always negotiate it down, but very difficult to negotiate it up. Tightwad lowballing customers are the worst and will waste hours of your time nitpicking invoices over a few hundred bucks. When I briefly had to deal with invoicing as a consultant, the customers with $50k invoices never complained and paid right away. The customers with $5k invoices were enormous shitheels about it and I never want to work with them again. Guinness fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 10, 2021 19:55
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