Babylon 5: Reboot and Zooty

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Torrannor: Apr 27, 2013; ---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE

Baronjutter posted:

Lennier or Marcus??

Yes

# ? Feb 8, 2021 10:33

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# ? May 15, 2024 04:37

VinylonUnderground: Dec 14, 2020; by Athanatos

Also on a more meta-level JMS himself since he absolutely found nobility in that bathos. And absolutely lives that life. I'd like to see JMS's private notes where Jerry Doyle was banging his way through the cast by exposing himself on set while JMS was sending flowers and limos while getting rejected. I'm actually surprised that Garibaldi's character didn't suffer because of that.

# ? Feb 8, 2021 17:05

Narsham: Jun 5, 2008

Really? Someone wants to discuss this unironically? Maybe bring up the topic in a way that doesn't make it sound like you're getting off on the discussion first.

Also, Garibaldi has nothing to do with the JMS/Claudia Christian awkwardness. That was clearly worked through on screen via Lt. Corwin in Exogenesis.

# ? Feb 8, 2021 19:48

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

Narsham posted:

Really? Someone wants to discuss this unironically? Maybe bring up the topic in a way that doesn't make it sound like you're getting off on the discussion first.

Also, Garibaldi has nothing to do with the JMS/Claudia Christian awkwardness. That was clearly worked through on screen via Lt. Corwin in Exogenesis.

That account is a rereg of the Incelshok Na / Shbobdb account which has a history of being a gross rear end in a top hat.

# ? Feb 8, 2021 19:53

VinylonUnderground: Dec 14, 2020; by Athanatos

Narsham posted:

Really? Someone wants to discuss this unironically? Maybe bring up the topic in a way that doesn't make it sound like you're getting off on the discussion first.

Also, Garibaldi has nothing to do with the JMS/Claudia Christian awkwardness. That was clearly worked through on screen via Lt. Corwin in Exogenesis.

What's wrong with the discussion? JMS absolutely found nobility in Marcus and Lennier and based on his date with Claudia he's very much a "nice guy". I'm just surprised he didn't take his lack of romantic success out on Jerry Doyle who sexually harassed Andrea Thompson who then married him. It's anachronistic to frame it as a chad/incel situation but it's pretty easy to view JMS through that lens. Taking it out on Garibaldi would absolutely be the kind of petty poo poo a nice guy would do. I'm surprised he didn't.

# ? Feb 8, 2021 20:28

MrL_JaKiri: Sep 23, 2003; A bracing glass of carrot juice!

He found nobility in Lennier before the incel plot. Nothing at all noble in that bit, quite the opposite in fact.

# ? Feb 8, 2021 20:55

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

In the script book JMS mentions that Mumy came to JMS and said "I think Lennier is in love with Delenn" and JMS said "are you absolutely sure you want to go down that road?" Cause it might not be where you think." And Mumy was insistent.

Don't know how true it is, but it's a drat hilarious case of "be careful what you wish for" if so.

# ? Feb 8, 2021 21:10

VinylonUnderground: Dec 14, 2020; by Athanatos

The Lennier incel plot went on for as long as the Delenn-John plot. Possibly longer, I'd need to rewatch the scene where Delenn marries Sinclair and see his reaction, though that's a little early.

Whooo-hooo

Markus is the real bad guy though. The creepy rape story is just the poo poo icing on the poo poo cake.

# ? Feb 8, 2021 21:14

I AM GRANDO: Aug 20, 2006

Bill Mumy has pretty powerful naive virgin (though not incel) energy in how he plays the character. It seems like a natural outgrowth of everything else about the performance.

# ? Feb 8, 2021 21:17

SlothfulCobra: Mar 27, 2011

It does seem to fit with what the character was brought up to believe. He idolizes Delenn while she's going through this whole self-sacrifice routine to put herself on the line in every way for her beliefs, so why not do his own sort of self-sacrifice to show his own devotion to her.

Not like he really has time to find his own romance while isolated away from most of his species and working long shifts for Delenn, especially when she lost her Grey Council status and he was probably the only loyal staff she had.

# ? Feb 8, 2021 23:00

Seemlar: Jun 18, 2002

Narsham posted:

Also, Garibaldi has nothing to do with the JMS/Claudia Christian awkwardness. That was clearly worked through on screen via Lt. Corwin in Exogenesis.

So about that Zack/Lyta elevator scene in Thirdspace... :stare:

# ? Feb 9, 2021 02:40

VinylonUnderground: Dec 14, 2020; by Athanatos

One of the enduring themes of B5 is the "microcosm as the macrocosm and the macrocosm as the microcosm" with different characters fulfilling that role. Na'Toth gets tortured. To a lesser degree than G'Kar and for a lesser reason. Her suffering is also off-screen. If Lennier serves as similar corollary for Delenn that's . . . not a good look. If I didn't think JMS didn't believe it, then that would be something different. But the character of Marcus plus his whole thing suggests that he very clearly does.

"The noble suffering of unrequited love is true and pure like suffering under a genocidal occupation." That is some real broke-brained poo poo. JMS got a lot of things right (Palestine, the Republican Party) some things more right than not (Homosexuality is normal and everyone should love who they love -- contrasted with the very '90s "lesbians are a special sub-class of homosexual that is acceptable so long as it satisfies the male gaze") so it makes his creepy nice guy views stand in starker relief.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 03:08

VinylonUnderground: Dec 14, 2020; by Athanatos

# ? Feb 9, 2021 04:50

ElBrak: Aug 24, 2004; "Muerte, buen compinche. Muerte."

I gotta say, I've never seen a double post that had an hour and a half gap. That is impressive.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 07:00

MrL_JaKiri: Sep 23, 2003; A bracing glass of carrot juice!

ElBrak posted:

I gotta say, I've never seen a double post that had an hour and a half gap. That is impressive.

More impressive than the content, anyway

# ? Feb 9, 2021 09:15

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

VinylonUnderground posted:

I'm actually surprised that Garibaldi's character didn't suffer because of that.

How sure can you possibly be that Garibaldi didn't ?

# ? Feb 9, 2021 09:43

ZRM: Nov 25, 2007

mllaneza posted:

How sure can you possibly be that Garibaldi didn't ?

I dunno man, he looks pretty happy to me...

# ? Feb 9, 2021 09:48

MrL_JaKiri: Sep 23, 2003; A bracing glass of carrot juice!

mllaneza posted:

How sure can you possibly be that Garibaldi didn't ?

The text supporting an interpretation is not an important part of their posting

# ? Feb 9, 2021 09:49

VinylonUnderground: Dec 14, 2020; by Athanatos

ZRM posted:

I dunno man, he looks pretty happy to me...

I hadn't thought of his arc in that light. It seemed more baked into who Garibaldi is but I like that angle. Plus sticking it to Doyle because he was an rear end in a top hat is a good thing.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 19:41

Canned Sunshine: Nov 20, 2005; CAUTION: POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION

Sorry if I missed this, but what version/site with the remastered episodes should I buy from, if all would get an option? And if I buy from Amazon or iTunes and they had the messed up episodes, would any fixes be passed on as updates?

# ? Feb 9, 2021 22:08

Zat: Jan 16, 2008

SourKraut posted:

Sorry if I missed this, but what version/site with the remastered episodes should I buy from, if all would get an option? And if I buy from Amazon or iTunes and they had the messed up episodes, would any fixes be passed on as updates?

Based on a picture quality comparison I saw I'd say go with Amazon over HBO Max; the former looked visibly better in the same scenes (less obvious compression artifacts/softening). iTunes wasn't included, so I dunno how that one stacks up.

I would think all the services will get the fixes but who can say for sure. But at worst you're missing less than 5 minutes across the entire series so, you know. Maybe not a dealbreaker.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 22:55

I AM GRANDO: Aug 20, 2006

Hey, do we ever find out what the first two ages of mankind are? Or what distinguishes the third?

# ? Feb 9, 2021 23:13

Grand Fromage: Jan 30, 2006; L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?

Antifa Turkeesian posted:

Hey, do we ever find out what the first two ages of mankind are? Or what distinguishes the third?

No totally official one I know of but this is from the RPG books:

quote:

Ages of a Race

There are five distinct ages in the lifetime of a sapient species, from birth into the god-like echelon of the First Ones � if a race lives long enough to achieve it, that is:

During their First Age, the race is bounded to its homeworld. It still lacks the technology to travel in space. Not only technologically, but the species is also culturally primitive and unenlightened. In this age, the race is considered an infant.

Most races never live beyond the First Age. They simply wipe themselves out through war, disease, pollution. A few of these, though, are destroyed by matters beyond their control like a cataclysm or genocide caused by another race. Such was the case of the Xon, the Neanderthal, the Daltrons and the Hyach-do.

The Second Age begins when the race reaches the stars, begins exploring the Universe, and meets other space-faring species. The Second Age is marked by the race falling under the influence of older, more powerful species. This process is unavoidable; it�s very much like a child growing up dependent on its parents. Like the parents teach and shape the child, the young race inherits cultural and technological characteristics of its elder. The Minbari inherited a lot from the Vorlons, as the Drakh learnt much during their time as disciples of the Shadows.

A Second Age race evolves and learns a great deal through its elder, but there�s a catch. Like a child grows and must learn to fend for itself without its parents, so must the younger race. If a race grows too dependent on its elder, it loses the capacity to evolve on its own. And when that happens, the race may permanently ruin its chance to mature into something more than a shadow of its elder.

For example, the Drakh are an old race and even though the Shadows are gone, they still pursue the cause of their masters instead of forging their own destiny. The Minbari, on the other hand, managed to grow into more than puppets of the Vorlons.

In the Third Age, a race has rejected its elder�s further guidance and influence and stands for its own actions. It could be compared to the young adulthood of a person. The child/race has grown into an independent - though still relatively young � adult/species ready to set out alone.

During the Third Age, the race goes through a technological boost since it�s no longer bound to the elders� rules. However, with this new freedom returns the danger of self-destruction. A Third Age race could exterminate itself with its new technological discoveries. Such was the case of the Ikarrans, killed by the machines they created to protect themselves. Or the Markab, killed by the Drafa plague, but actually driven to extinction by their own ignorance. Or the Dilgar who failed to carve out a new homeworld for their empire before the death of their sun.

For a race to survive its Third Age, it must redefine itself. Like a young adult aging, the race must keep learning and go through a deep change. So deep that it practically severs its primitive roots, becoming an entirely different species. This cultural evolution is so hard that most races retreat from it.

The Fourth Age is the last step for a race to become a full-grown elder in its own right. Following the cultural change, the race has passed beyond its Third Age. If the Narns can heed G�Kar�s warnings and move beyond their hate for the Centauri, they may set themselves on a good course into eventually passing through their Third Age.

Following the cultural change, the race has reached its Fourth Age. It is now a fully grown adult species, free, wise and powerful enough to shape the Universe as it sees fit and walk among the stars like a giant. The Walkers of Sigma 957 and most of the other First Ones have existed in the Fourth Age for a long, long time. The Fourth Age is to many the last step for a race, since they are now like gods. The Fourth Age race is powerful enough to fight any outside threat, and wise enough to avoid killing itself with its power.

However, it could still kill itself culturally, if not physically. Should the cultural change of the Third Age have not being strong enough, should the race�s transformation not being deep-seated and complete enough, then it will simply begin to fade. When a race can fulfill all the dreams it had when it was young and has nothing more to search and achieve, it stagnates and begins to die off. At best, it degenerates, becoming a race of alien monsters who use lesser races for their pleasure, becoming cultural and emotional voyeurs. The Centauri are likely destined for this fate. It is possible the Thirdspace Aliens are a failed Fourth Age race, seeing as they have no goal but to eradicate all life.

Not all races enter a Fifth Age. As stated before, the Fourth Age is the official finish line and going beyond that won�t take much of an evolution. In the Milky Way galaxy, only three races have entered their Fifth Age. � Lorien�s race, the Vorlons and the Shadows. During the Fifth Age, a race becomes the parent of the galaxy and guardian of the younger races. It guides them through their Second Age until they�re ready to stand on their own.

And if there is a Sixth Age for a race, it lies out there, beyond the Rim.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 23:16

ultrafilter: Aug 23, 2007; It's okay if you have any questions.

Antifa Turkeesian posted:

Hey, do we ever find out what the first two ages of mankind are? Or what distinguishes the third?

Yes. See the guide page for 406.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 23:17

Erulisse: Feb 12, 2019; A bad poster trying to get better.

From now on I will officially call vorlons The Vorlon, because they are one.

# ? Feb 10, 2021 00:55

Number_6: Jul 23, 2006; BAN ALL GAS GUZZLERS

(except for mine); Pillbug

Zat posted:

Based on a picture quality comparison I saw I'd say go with Amazon over HBO Max; the former looked visibly better in the same scenes (less obvious compression artifacts/softening). iTunes wasn't included, so I dunno how that one stacks up.

I would think all the services will get the fixes but who can say for sure. But at worst you're missing less than 5 minutes across the entire series so, you know. Maybe not a dealbreaker.

The downside with Amazon is that (as far as I can tell) you must buy all the seasons individually at a cost of roughly $150 USD. On Vudu you can buy all the seasons in a bundle for $70 (last time I checked). But, the picture quality looked a little softer to me on Vudu, so I'm not sure if they are using source files of the same quality (or maybe Vudu just doesn't stream as well for me, I don't know). In the screencaps posted here a few pages ago, fine details were noticeably sharper with the Amazon version than the Vudu one.

Also, while I'm not thrilled with a burst of new posts about weird incel stuff as it relates to B5 characters, I'm very happy that it's not bad news about yet another cast member.

# ? Feb 10, 2021 02:35

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Erulisse posted:

From now on I will officially call vorlons The Vorlon, because they are one.

We are all Kosh.

# ? Feb 10, 2021 04:44

Jet Jaguar: Feb 12, 2006; Don't touch my bags if you please, Mr Customs Man.

Doctor Zero posted:

We are all Kosh.

We have always been here.

# ? Feb 10, 2021 05:43

VinylonUnderground: Dec 14, 2020; by Athanatos

Truth is a three edged sword.

There is the truth you believe.

The truth others believe.

And the truth that will hurt people.

# ? Feb 10, 2021 06:01

Sedgr: Sep 16, 2007; Neat!

Been watching the latest version on HBO Max and its really great getting these in HD. Only complaint I have is that the color/saturation/contrast is a bit off somehow. Crushed blacks and blown out whites, colors are off which kills some of the detail. Still better than the old DVD's even with it being a bit wonky though.

# ? Feb 10, 2021 19:22

hope and vaseline: Feb 13, 2001

Sedgr posted:

Been watching the latest version on HBO Max and its really great getting these in HD. Only complaint I have is that the color/saturation/contrast is a bit off somehow. Crushed blacks and blown out whites, colors are off which kills some of the detail. Still better than the old DVD's even with it being a bit wonky though.

Yea, S3 is especially bad where it feels like a green filter is applied over everything. They really went overboard with contrast too. At S4 now and the transfer is remarkably better

# ? Feb 10, 2021 20:43

Jet Jaguar: Feb 12, 2006; Don't touch my bags if you please, Mr Customs Man.

We drive for the One. (I sometimes speculate about getting a ZATHRAS custom plate as well.)

https://twitter.com/straczynski/status/1359026522842034176

# ? Feb 10, 2021 22:21

ConfusedUs: Feb 24, 2004; Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!

Jet Jaguar posted:

We drive for the One. (I sometimes speculate about getting a ZATHRAS custom plate as well.)

https://twitter.com/straczynski/status/1359026522842034176

Cannot run out gas. There is infinite gas. You are finite. Zathras is finite. This is wrong car! No. Not good. No. Never drive this.

# ? Feb 10, 2021 22:31

Platonicsolid: Nov 17, 2008

Feel like the real deep cut would be to get a purple car with the plate "WHTSTR2"

# ? Feb 11, 2021 00:36

Narsham: Jun 5, 2008

Platonicsolid posted:

Feel like the real deep cut would be to get a purple car with the plate "WHTSTR2"

How about WHORU?

GDSNTME might get you into trouble.

But if you have real game, try BOOGEE and put a bucket sticker next to it.

# ? Feb 11, 2021 01:19

Blindeye: Sep 22, 2006; I can't believe I kissed you!

Platonicsolid posted:

Feel like the real deep cut would be to get a purple car with the plate "WHTSTR2"

I haye Elon Musk and Tesla is a bad company but the Model S was codenamed "White Star" and the model three "Blue Star" (Sheridan's small white star like ship in Sleeping In Light."

I credit the nerds below Elon because him loving B5 would likely be insufferable.

# ? Feb 11, 2021 01:32

VinylonUnderground: Dec 14, 2020; by Athanatos

It's worth remembering that W and Cheney are both big B5 fans. Possibly the most famous fans the franchise has.

I ... don't understand that at all. Then again, the viewpoint of W and Cheney is far more alien to me than anything in SciFi so their ways being fundamentally inscrutable is on-brand for them.

# ? Feb 11, 2021 03:37

Winifred Madgers: Feb 12, 2002

Blindeye posted:

I haye Elon Musk and Tesla is a bad company but the Model S was codenamed "White Star" and the model three "Blue Star" (Sheridan's small white star like ship in Sleeping In Light."

I credit the nerds below Elon because him loving B5 would likely be insufferable.

What if it gave us a shot at a spare-no-expense actual remaster?

# ? Feb 11, 2021 03:38

Epinephrine: Nov 7, 2008

Goblin Craft posted:

What if it gave us a shot at a spare-no-expense actual remaster?

Quick, someone get Bezos hooked on this while he still has influence at Amazon.

# ? Feb 11, 2021 04:05

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# ? May 15, 2024 04:37

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Epinephrine posted:

Quick, someone get Bezos hooked on this while he still has influence at Amazon.

No then we�d just get the Amazon Basics B5

# ? Feb 11, 2021 04:07

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Babylon 5: Reboot and Zooty

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