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LionArcher posted:Cool. Are you white? because if you are, and you're not more pissed at someone like Tom Brady (who is both clearly a worse human being and also a worse athlete) then your high horsing something that's at least partly fueled in racial biases. Kobe's legal team did what they were paid to do. And yes, it was lovely. And yes, he at least admitted fault and paid a fee. Was justice served? That feels like a different conversation honestly. But I will say if you look at his actions after the case, it appears that he was in fact trying to right wrongs. He championed female sports, put a spotlight on them and was doing a drat good job of being a coach. And now he's dead, so if nothing else your post is in poor taste, but this feels like a derail. wow Anyway I've read through the thread and it's been a somewhat frustrating experience, and illustrated one of the biggest disappointments about the metoo movement for me. It was great that a culture shift was attempted towards a place where women would be able to talk about their experiences of sexual violence, but I was hoping the inverse would also be true, that we would move towards a world where we wouldn't have to, where we could discuss the lovely behaviour of men without having to preface it with a list of our personal experiences of sexual assault. But thag didn't happen and there still seems be an expectation that you either discuss these subjects with dispassionate professionalism in object terms, and if you want to get emotional about it you'd better express a personal stake or I will block my ears to your uncouth behaviour I hope this makes sense, I'm a bit all over the place e: also wanted to add that seeing Biden’s behaviour dismissed as "creepy grandpa poo poo" is infuriating
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Feb 10, 2021 01:35
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LionArcher posted:Cool. Are you white? because if you are, and you're not more pissed at someone like Tom Brady (who is both clearly a worse human being and also a worse athlete) then your high horsing something that's at least partly fueled in racial biases. Kobe's legal team did what they were paid to do. And yes, it was lovely. And yes, he at least admitted fault and paid a fee. Was justice served? That feels like a different conversation honestly. But I will say if you look at his actions after the case, it appears that he was in fact trying to right wrongs. He championed female sports, put a spotlight on them and was doing a drat good job of being a coach. And now he's dead, so if nothing else your post is in poor taste, but this feels like a derail. Yes, I think I can meet this exacting standard of “gently caress Tom Brady”
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Feb 10, 2021 02:07
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I dont think its an unreasonable statement to say "gently caress any person who escapes sexual assault scrutiny/allegations because of their power, job, money etc"
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Feb 10, 2021 02:41
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LionArcher posted:Cool. Are you white? because if you are, and you're not more pissed at someone like Tom Brady (who is both clearly a worse human being and also a worse athlete) then your high horsing something that's at least partly fueled in racial biases. Kobe's legal team did what they were paid to do. And yes, it was lovely. And yes, he at least admitted fault and paid a fee. Was justice served? That feels like a different conversation honestly. But I will say if you look at his actions after the case, it appears that he was in fact trying to right wrongs. He championed female sports, put a spotlight on them and was doing a drat good job of being a coach. And now he's dead, so if nothing else your post is in poor taste, but this feels like a derail. I think it's bad when powerful people get away with rape or sexual assault, whether or not their lawyers did what they were paid to. Besides, he never admitted or acknowledged anything about his other possible victims, or the impact his behavior had on the woman and on the community. I don't care if he bought indulgences, just like every rich person, or if his lawyers acted within the law, when this is what he was responsible for: quote:Just days before the criminal case went to trial, the alleged victim decided to stop cooperating and the charges were dropped. Up until that moment, she had been put through the ringer. She had friends, acquaintances, and even strangers accept money from the tabloids or gifts from television producers to tell stories — some the truth with a spin to it, others outright lies. Photos of the alleged victim were also leaked and plastered all over magazines in the supermarket. Even the Eagle County court contributed to the onslaught, by inadvertently making private court documents public. https://thinkprogress.org/the-legacy-of-the-kobe-bryant-rape-case-6a42f159be7b/ quote:Through her attorney, the woman who pressed charges declined to comment following Bryant’s death. She does not speak publicly about the events that upended her life. Over the years, she has been maligned and threatened. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-02-04/kobe-bryant-sexual-assault-survivors-legacy And I actually think this is relevant, because these things are absolutely happening to Tara Reade, just like they happened to Christine Ford. And smearing these women as liars, publishing personal information about them, never letting them forget what happened for the rest of their lives - it will always lead to this. Besides simply being unconscionably cruel. Meanwhile Joe Biden will never give Reade a second thought for the rest of his life.
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Feb 10, 2021 09:46
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The idea that it's inappropriate to criticize the late Bryant for his history of rape and sexual assault if you're insufficiently black is a great example of how, divorced from any real theory of change and material analysis, anything can be cynically dismissed with this sort of faux-progressive woke posturing. "Intersectional analysis" (or the perverted shadow of it that exists within the progressive sphere) can and is being used, just like anything else, to shut down discussion and protect abusers from being held accountable. LionArcher's post was unsubtle, but it's not really that different from the admonishments from Democrats and their supporters about Joe Biden, just a step removed: It's not that you can't call Biden a rapist because he's X, it's that you can't call Biden a rapist because then the Republicans will gain power and that will be be bad for/outright kill X -- sub in black people/immigrants/trans people/disabled people/etc. etc. etc. for X based on your audience and then you've effectively shut down any challenge of Biden's image within nearly any progressive-aligned space that isn't watching for this specific rhetorical trick.
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Feb 10, 2021 16:49
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Tom Brady would have found a way to make it work with Shaq, imo
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Feb 10, 2021 17:57
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LionArcher posted:Cool. Are you white? because if you are, and you're not more pissed at someone like Tom Brady (who is both clearly a worse human being and also a worse athlete) then your high horsing something that's at least partly fueled in racial biases. Kobe's legal team did what they were paid to do. And yes, it was lovely. And yes, he at least admitted fault and paid a fee. Was justice served? That feels like a different conversation honestly. But I will say if you look at his actions after the case, it appears that he was in fact trying to right wrongs. He championed female sports, put a spotlight on them and was doing a drat good job of being a coach. And now he's dead, so if nothing else your post is in poor taste, but this feels like a derail. I think that people who rape are in fact bad, no matter who they are or what else they've done
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Feb 10, 2021 18:30
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some plague rats posted:e: also wanted to add that seeing Biden’s behaviour dismissed as "creepy grandpa poo poo" is infuriating Agreed. It's also disheartening to see him talked about as a cute old man (He has rescue dogs! He likes ice cream!) while these accusations are never addressed. I feel like a big selling point was his personal demeanor, which all of these accusations undercut, but not really because they just get swept under the rug. It reminds me of the MAGA fanatics who go all starry eyed over Trump while ignoring every single thing about his personal life.
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Feb 10, 2021 19:50
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Lester Shy posted:Agreed. It's also disheartening to see him talked about as a cute old man (He has rescue dogs! He likes ice cream!) while these accusations are never addressed. I feel like a big selling point was his personal demeanor, which all of these accusations undercut, but not really because they just get swept under the rug. It reminds me of the MAGA fanatics who go all starry eyed over Trump while ignoring every single thing about his personal life. His demeanor in-person, much like Trump, is almost always extremely combative and ill-tempered outside of speeches. Joe's biggest weakness is that Joe Biden is, put as politely as possible, an extremely unpleasant person and his popularity depends entirely on the illusion that he's a saint of healing and understanding. So basically: Pentecoastal Elites posted:In order to keep their voting base so as to pursue their economic and political goals, the Democrats CANNOT allow Reade to be perceived as telling the truth. It undermines their entire project. That's why they had to go after her, and that's why they'll continue to go after her for at least as long as keeps speaking out about what Biden did to her (and probably until she, or maybe Biden, dies)
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Feb 11, 2021 02:00
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Yinlock posted:His demeanor in-person, much like Trump, is almost always extremely combative and ill-tempered outside of speeches. I was under the impression that Joe Biden is actually pretty personable to those around him, and about as far from Trump as you can get. I'm not naive, I assume that every politician no matter how evil is putting on a character. But my understanding was that he had a better in-person game.
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Feb 11, 2021 02:05
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Jaxyon posted:I was under the impression that Joe Biden is actually pretty personable to those around him, and about as far from as you can get. Nah he sucks. The second he's treated with anything less than absolute deference he loses his poo poo and his personable mask just completely falls off. Remember the number of people he told to vote for trump? Or this poo poo? 
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Feb 11, 2021 02:26
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Yinlock posted:His demeanor in-person, much like Trump, is almost always extremely combative and ill-tempered outside of speeches. Not meaning to start a derail, but out of sheer curiosity, have you met Biden and Trump in person?
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Feb 11, 2021 02:29
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some plague rats posted:Nah he sucks. The second he's treated with anything less than absolute deference he loses his poo poo and his personable mask just completely falls off. Remember the number of people he told to vote for trump? Or this poo poo? I know he sucks, but my impression was that he's well liked in government. "Not being able to handle disagreement" is most people in power. Everybody who's interacted with trump for more than 5 seconds think's he's either deeply broken or the worst person they've ever met. Please keep in mind, I'm not making the argument that he's actually a good person, inside. I think he probably raped Tara Reade.
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Feb 11, 2021 02:29
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Jaxyon posted:I know he sucks, but my impression was that he's well liked in government. "Not being able to handle disagreement" is most people in power. Oh yeah he probably is extremely well liked in government, because it's a big country club and every member is aware they're in it together against the likes of us. Not sure what that's got to do with anything, if I'm honest?
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Feb 11, 2021 02:34
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Jaxyon posted:I was under the impression that Joe Biden is actually pretty personable to those around him, and about as far from Trump as you can get. He's got a repeated pattern of getting visibly angry and lashing out when he's off his script. The media has done a good job offering Biden cover on these outbursts as "gaffes" and characterizing him as a goofy uncle-type character, but if you actually watch the tape there's nothing goofy about the way he comes at people. some plague rats posted:Nah he sucks. The second he's treated with anything less than absolute deference he loses his poo poo and his personable mask just completely falls off. Remember the number of people he told to vote for trump? Or this poo poo? "You ain't black" springs to mind. As does "Talk about losers." As does "why why why why why" and putting his hands on a reporter.
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Feb 11, 2021 02:36
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Jaxyon posted:I was under the impression that Joe Biden is actually pretty personable to those around him, and about as far from Trump as you can get. He's very nice until you disagree with him. See the "dog faced pony soldier" incident. Or any of the times he has threatened to fight people.
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Feb 11, 2021 02:36
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The Oldest Man posted:"You ain't black" springs to mind. As does "Talk about losers." Ah man I'd forgotten about both of these, he's so cool
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Feb 11, 2021 02:38
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Jaxyon posted:I was under the impression that Joe Biden is actually pretty personable to those around him, and about as far from Trump as you can get. LOOK FAT You're too old to vote for me. From what I've seen of him, he's personable until challenged. Then, it really depends on if you're a serf or a donor.
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Feb 11, 2021 02:41
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some plague rats posted:Oh yeah he probably is extremely well liked in government, because it's a big country club and every member is aware they're in it together against the likes of us. Not sure what that's got to do with anything, if I'm honest? Because it affects how people interact with him in government and that's where he works and that's relevant to how rape charges get handled? The conversation was about perception of him. I'm sure he's a complete shitheel under all of that. It's kind of relevant how people act when talking about perceptions of who he is. Saying "he's just like trump in person" is kind of useless because he's not. He's a different type of rear end in a top hat. Their similarity comes from the the whole "being sexual predators" part.
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Feb 11, 2021 02:46
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Anyone who was around the Senate at the same time as Biden generally seems to like the guy even if they disagree with him on issues, and frankly Democrats and Republicans were not that far apart on issues for most of his era. The Clinton Democrats continued the tough on crime (tough on minorities), anti-welfare approach of the Reagan era after all, which is why Biden was pretty much everyone's last choice for nominee here. This advertised sense of comradery contributed to media-driven perception that he might end the legislative stalemate in Congress and make Republicans "come to their senses." Trump, an avowed racist and infantile narcissist, is one of the least likeable human beings on the planet, news at 11.
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Feb 11, 2021 03:56
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Yeah it seems like a big part of the reason senate republicans like Biden is his absolute dedication to staying in their good graces, generally by rolling over and giving them exactly what they want
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Feb 11, 2021 04:11
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Anyone who was around the Senate at the same time as Biden generally seems to like the guy even if they disagree with him on issues, and frankly Democrats and Republicans were not that far apart on issues for most of his era. The Clinton Democrats continued the tough on crime (tough on minorities), anti-welfare approach of the Reagan era after all, which is why Biden was pretty much everyone's last choice for nominee here. This advertised sense of comradery contributed to media-driven perception that he might end the legislative stalemate in Congress and make Republicans "come to their senses." Those were his contemporaries, not his social inferiors.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:16
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Never forget - Chris Coons literally wrote an op ed to say his daughter definitely wasnt creeped out. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/01/11/coons-my-daughter-doesnt-think-joe-biden-is-creepy/
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Feb 11, 2021 21:46
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My oped about how my daughter wasn't extremely creeped out is raising a lot of etc
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Feb 11, 2021 22:07
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 This definitely looks like a young woman who is fully comfortable with this situation and what Joe Biden is doing.
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Feb 11, 2021 23:49
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The Oldest Man posted:
If she writes an article about being uncomfortable in 10 years some people will wonder if she's lying because she had a traffic ticket at one point.
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Feb 12, 2021 00:07
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If we're on a tangent for slight derails, what ever came of the allegations against Trump while he was running? I remember Gloria Steinem or... someone else, a well-known feminist lawyer, aligning with someone who wanted to push a story against Trump, but at the very second that press release was to run, it was dropped. What came to be that someone would back down from something so damning that it would just vanish into thin air?
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Feb 12, 2021 06:28
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The Oldest Man posted:
I never noticed Coons smiling in the background, that's just incredible. What a shithead.
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Feb 12, 2021 06:35
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The Oldest Man posted:
This picture turns my stomach. The blank stare and slight grimace from her makes me believe that this isn’t the first time she’s had to deal with this kind of thing. 
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Feb 12, 2021 06:36
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look, biden is a great salesman and this is why he can convince others that rape and inappropriate touching is ok. i don’t see what the issue is
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Feb 12, 2021 07:05
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Shut up and JAM! fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Feb 12, 2021 |
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Feb 12, 2021 07:20
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The Oldest Man posted:
DoomTrainPhD posted:If she writes an article about being uncomfortable in 10 years some people will wonder if she's lying because she had a traffic ticket at one point. I just don't understand why she didn't file a police report? What else is she hiding? Victory Position posted:If we're on a tangent for slight derails, what ever came of the allegations against Trump while he was running? I remember Gloria Steinem or... someone else, a well-known feminist lawyer, aligning with someone who wanted to push a story against Trump, but at the very second that press release was to run, it was dropped. What came to be that someone would back down from something so damning that it would just vanish into thin air? My bet is it's the same reason Epstein and Maxwell allegations aren't going anywhere. Team blue would be implicated as well (probably even more so considering both were big Dem donors.)
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Feb 13, 2021 02:49
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Kalit posted:Oh yea, of course I understand the concept of that approach. But the last part of DoomTrainPhD's post could have easily been left off, instead of having the unsaid part of it saying to other people "it's such a low bar, why don't you do it unless you support rape So, I've come to the conclusion that Biden should resign. Now, hear me out, this isn't flippant. Biden's well documented history of fondling, sniffing, commenting on, and invading the personal space of others fits the definition of sexual harassment. A person who displayed the same behavior in a professional setting would be fired, there is no reason that the President should be exempt from the same standards. After Sanders dropped out, the drum beat from Biden supporters was "well, I don't like him either, but he's better than Trump." We have to elect Biden because Trump is Hitler and Mussolini rolled into one, it's our last chance to defeat fascism, and darn it, I don't like Joe either, but he's all we've got. It's him or Trump. Well, Trump is gone. He's defeated, he's out of office, we've averted Fascism. Joe has done his job and now needs to go. This will never happen though.
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Feb 15, 2021 00:46
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:I'm not sure how much of this thread I'm going to be able to handle, frankly, and I expect to need to tap out sooner rather than later. This has always been the grossest part of this discussion. I've always hated the credibility attacks and character assassination. If she lied in that case, or even has a history of lying, I don't care, because liars can still be assaulted. Going after the details of the event is gross but justifiable, going after her character to say "ah hah! she's a bad person, therefore, she couldn't have been raped!" is just nightmarish to me. Is it even proven she did? Last I saw some lawyers from the defense had claimed people would be looking into it and if she had there would be repercussions. If there hasn't been any actual charges or investigation or any update on if there's been any movement forward on either of them I'm going to assume it was people looking to smear her characters for various reasons like protecting Biden, scoring a retrial for a client, or whatever.
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Feb 15, 2021 01:45
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Strange Poon posted:Is it even proven she did? Last I saw some lawyers from the defense had claimed people would be looking into it and if she had there would be repercussions. If there hasn't been any actual charges or investigation or any update on if there's been any movement forward on either of them I'm going to assume it was people looking to smear her characters for various reasons like protecting Biden, scoring a retrial for a client, or whatever. Not that it's even relevant, but no, she didn't. It was a smear concocted by Harvey Weinstein's defense team that went literally nowhere
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Feb 15, 2021 02:40
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PeterCat posted:So, I've come to the conclusion that Biden should resign. Now, hear me out, this isn't flippant. Biden's well documented history of fondling, sniffing, commenting on, and invading the personal space of others fits the definition of sexual harassment. A person who displayed the same behavior in a professional setting would be fired, there is no reason that the President should be exempt from the same standards. I agree--but if Biden resigned, we'd then get a president who sanctioned-by-silence the priest-rape of minors.
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Feb 15, 2021 19:42
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Willa Rogers posted:I agree--but if Biden resigned, we'd then get a president who sanctioned-by-silence the priest-rape of minors. Are you lesser of two eviling me about getting rid of Biden? That's how we got here in the first place. It illustrates my fear that by ignoring Biden's acts so that Trump could be put out of office, the electorate and the Democratic Party have set a bad precedent going forwards. I don't know how people don't become removed or apathetic about national politics when these are the people who are put in the highest positions.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:38
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PeterCat posted:Are you lesser of two eviling me about getting rid of Biden? That's how we got here in the first place. No, of course not; I was pointing out how riddled the ranks are with accessories to rape as well as rapists themselves. eta: I've never become "removed or apathetic" about national politics but my disillusionment with Dems dates back to watching self-ID'd "feminists" slut-shame & try to discredit Bill Clinton's rape victims. Clinton normalized the idea of rapist-in-chief. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Feb 15, 2021 |
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Feb 15, 2021 22:47
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bump So, does anyone have any thoughts about steps forward? It sucks seeing Joe Biden's face practically every day, but feeling angry and disappointed over it doesn't seem healthy on personal or societal levels in the long term.
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Feb 18, 2021 17:30
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Other than him stepping down, I dont know what else there is. It feels incredibly lovely that the US just accepts sex monsters as leaders. But it isnt like this is a new thing.
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Feb 18, 2021 18:04
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