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CoolCab posted:it's definitely a reasonable thing to say to our NHS staff that we clap for you as hard as you can, so long as you don't socialize for a year straight - so long as you accept that you are now a secondclass citizen for your service No one is supposed to socialise you pillock.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:35
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If you were an NHS employee and observed this behaviour in a colleauge you'd be pretty much obligated to narc, right? Probably after giving him a serious talking to telling him to get his act together.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:38
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Jakabite posted:Being a dick about people wanting to go on holiday after a year of lockdown misery isn't as good a take as most of this thread seem to think. God forbid people should be asking whether they might be able to go and do something enjoyable to blow off some steam in the near future. I haven't been on holiday since I was like, fifteen, I'm sure people can manage without spreading the plague for a year or two.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:44
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How dare you get angry at this waiter for spending his lunch hour gorging on an enormous bag of peanuts and not washing his hands afterwards, contaminating every dish he serves and potentially killing any number of people with nut allergies? Don't you know he has a hard job? It is the system to blame somehow.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:44
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In my opinion, if somebody's being a oval office, you should tell them how much of a oval office they're being. Maybe ostracise them a bit. If criminal enforcement+narcing worked, everyone would be following the rules by now
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Feb 11, 2021 18:45
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There seem to be quite a few people ITT who think reporting someone to their boss/the police is an adequate substitute for actually, you know, confronting someone over their bad behaviour and encouraging them to rectify it. There is a Lampard in our heads.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:46
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Dabir posted:How dare you get angry at this waiter for spending his lunch hour gorging on an enormous bag of peanuts and not washing his hands afterwards, contaminating every dish he serves and potentially killing any number of people with nut allergies? Don't you know he has a hard job? It is the system to blame somehow. Do you really think socialising constitutes a bigger risk of infecting patients than *actually working in a loving hospital*?
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Feb 11, 2021 18:47
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Strom Cuzewon posted:If you were an NHS employee and observed this behaviour in a colleauge you'd be pretty much obligated to narc, right? Probably after giving him a serious talking to telling him to get his act together. if you're asking what i personally did in my role, it never came up - i gave lots of people good advice, lead by example and generally understood that my non-patient facing role that i could do from home made me VERY privileged. compared to the staff who were asked to put their entire lives on hold, indefinitely, and judged infinitely more harshly than anyone in any other profession. but, then i was a trade unionist - i would need extremely compelling, imminent danger for me to report someone to management who came to me in a professional context. in a personal context i can say without hesitation - if i knew someone was breaking quarantine i would call them a loving moron, and have, but it would take an EXTRAORDINARY breach for me to involve the cops or their boss. jesus christ.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:49
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i would cyber-hack into that man's virtual-reality head-set helmet and take him on a virtual adventure featuring 3 ghosts and a little lad with a crutch, to cause him to question and then change his selfish behaviour 
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Feb 11, 2021 18:52
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The Perfect Element posted:Nick Cohen is clearly an awful person, but the doctor exporting scheme does seem to be verifiably a bad thing, unless I'm missing something signficant? i recall it’s basically a huge organised bank of doctors who go abroad and supplement their meagre wages, probably a bit of a grey market too with them also moonlighting medically or as plumbers etc i imagine it’s like para-dropping the nhs on a poor village, really helps the locals but makes the usa furious like when china sent their doctors to lombardy last year
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Feb 11, 2021 18:53
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CoolCab posted:if i knew someone was breaking quarantine i would call them a loving moron, and have, Why? I thought you said the rules didn't work and were bullshit?
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Feb 11, 2021 18:54
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Dabir posted:How dare you get angry at this waiter for spending his lunch hour gorging on an enormous bag of peanuts and not washing his hands afterwards, contaminating every dish he serves and potentially killing any number of people with nut allergies? Don't you know he has a hard job? It is the system to blame somehow. fortunately, wait staff is a profession where you save human beings routinely, the lack of wait staff is killing thousands right now and also all waiters sign up to be isolated from their friends and families, often indefinitely and without prior consent for a year or more. wait staff further of course also endanger themselves by serving people who have extremely contagious disease constantly or exclusively (lol that i had to add "constantly"). otherwise that would be a pretty shite comparison, huh? NotJustANumber99 posted:Why? I thought you said the rules didn't work and were bullshit? the rules don't work, and are bullshit, and i still follow them - and engage in more strenuous measures and have since April, too. I have no desire to get sick, nor for my family to get sick. there is a colossal loving gap between that and narcing on someone based on a fuckin anecdote.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:06
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Do you really think socialising constitutes a bigger risk of infecting patients than *actually working in a loving hospital*? It probably represents a fairly big risk they could be exposed to it in the hospital then spread it to the people they're socializing with.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:06
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Random Integer posted:It probably represents a fairly big risk they could be exposed to it in the hospital then spread it to the people they're socializing with. Right, but that wasn't what the metaphor was about, was it?
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Feb 11, 2021 19:08
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yeah it's an imperfect analogy, a better one might be an idiot doctor inviting all his friends around to his house to cough on a thing he wears on his face, infecting him with a horrible disease he can then spread to all his patients
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Feb 11, 2021 19:11
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it ain't a coincidence that NHS workers are leaving in droves, let me tell you.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:12
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Just to make my thoughts absolutely clear here - it is of course unacceptable for *anyone* to be breaking the lockdown restrictions. It is however not a level of unacceptable that justifies someone losing their entire livelihood, which is easily within the spectrum of possible outcomes if this person is reported to the police and/or their employers, *particularly* when the person involved is known to OP and social pressure is both available and by far the most appropriate measure. If they're licking patients on ventilators, or writing a suspicious amount of prescriptions for rohypnol, go hog wild.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:15
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CoolCab posted:it ain't a coincidence that NHS workers are leaving in droves, let me tell you. Because they can't have VR headset nights with their friends like the rest of us?
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Feb 11, 2021 19:15
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Just to make my thoughts absolutely clear here - it is of course unacceptable for *anyone* to be breaking the lockdown restrictions. It is however not a level of unacceptable that justifies someone losing their entire livelihood, which is easily within the spectrum of possible outcomes if this person is reported to the police and/or their employers, *particularly* when the person involved is known to OP and social pressure is both available and by far the most appropriate measure. how many people would they have to provably have infected and killed before this became an ok consequence
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Feb 11, 2021 19:16
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Dabir posted:yeah it's an imperfect analogy, a better one might be an idiot doctor inviting all his friends around to his house to cough on a thing he wears on his face, infecting him with a horrible disease he can then spread to all his patients also, i am assuming from this conversation that you also have not been to a pub, or to get your hair cut, left your hometown or had anyone in your home or been in anyone else's home for the past year. because otherwise it sort of seems like you expect NHS workers to accept uncritically and without the slightest rebellion that they have less rights and privileges than you do because of their profession, that because they are the frontline against this pandemic they deserve less than you do.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:17
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Dabir posted:how many people would they have to provably have infected and killed before this became an ok consequence From a consequentialist perspective, more than the number of people who would be killed by having one less practicing doctor at the moment.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:18
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CoolCab posted:it sort of seems like you expect NHS workers to accept uncritically and without the slightest rebellion that they have less rights and privileges than you do because of their profession, that because they are the frontline against this pandemic they deserve less than you do. I dunno why it would seem like that when no one here has suggested that at all.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:20
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Just to make my thoughts absolutely clear here - it is of course unacceptable for *anyone* to be breaking the lockdown restrictions. It is however not a level of unacceptable that justifies someone losing their entire livelihood, which is easily within the spectrum of possible outcomes if this person is reported to the police and/or their employers, *particularly* when the person involved is known to OP and social pressure is both available and by far the most appropriate measure. i agree this man is a mere poo poo-man, not a shipman!!!!!!!!!! 
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Feb 11, 2021 19:20
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There would at least need to be some evidence that individual narcing was a halfway effective intervention before the consequences could be justified e: seriously, just tell people that they're loving idiots. The reason why the policeman in all of our heads is so appealing to listen to is because narcing sounds much loving easier, but it is not effective, as well as being demonstrably A Bad Thing Borrovan fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Feb 11, 2021 |
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Feb 11, 2021 19:21
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CoolCab posted:also, i am assuming from this conversation that you also have not been to a pub, or to get your hair cut, left your hometown or had anyone in your home or been in anyone else's home for the past year. The last time I did anything you could refer to as normal is literally coming up to a year ago. I am going loving stir crazy and I'm a shut in nerd who's normal only social outlet was board games in a pub function room once every two weeks. This poo poo is breaking peoples brains. We don't even have a death stranding like uber 3D printer to make all our cosplay outfits 
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Feb 11, 2021 19:21
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Dabir posted:how many people would they have to provably have infected and killed before this became an ok consequence Quite apart from the fact that they've already been infected so are an extremely low transmission risk, the question comes back to what's the greater risk of them being infected and passing it on to their patients? An evening of VR headset use or a year of literally touching infected patients every single day? Why do you think using the same piece of electronics is a bigger risk than being in a room with an infected patient undergoing intubation, nebuliser use or any of the dozens of other things that turn people into literal virus geysers? Does this Oculus Variant somehow have the ability to negate the cross-contamination precautions they take when moving between patients? (And to head off the inevitable - yes, if they're *not* following the infection control processes in hospital that definitely is something that their employer should be told about, because that's orders of magnitude worse).
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Feb 11, 2021 19:24
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I don't think it's unreasonable to want to report it, at least in theory. Medical ethics is its own field, what's "right" is not necessarily obvious to a layperson, and expecting people to run everything they see through their own filter means some bad stuff is probably going to slip through the cracks in the system. In a healthy process, that should be fine - you should be able to assume that the issue you raise will be dealt with fairly, reasonably, and taking the relevant context into account. Then you read about the GMC though:Wikipedia posted:According to the recent Horsfall review, the number of deaths of doctors under GMC procedures in the eight years between 2005 and 2013 accounted for more than 10% of the country's death rate at work of the entire UK workforce, annually and consistently. No other organisation besides the GMC had come anywhere near this occupational fatality rate. The process of working out if doctors have even done anything wrong is itself potentially lethal to doctors. That's hosed up. e: Also CoolCab, I know there are some issues that you really feel strongly about and you're arguing in good faith, but launching straight in with an extreme strawman from the get-go is just unnecessary aggro for all sides of the argument. Scikar fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Feb 11, 2021 |
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Feb 11, 2021 19:25
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LordVorbis posted:We don't even have a death stranding like uber 3D printer to make all our cosplay outfits
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Feb 11, 2021 19:25
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CoolCab posted:also, i am assuming from this conversation that you also have not been to a pub, or to get your hair cut, left your hometown or had anyone in your home or been in anyone else's home for the past year. Only the past year?  Guavanaut posted:Wait what? OwlFancier said you just had to throw your poo poo and piss at ghosts so that's mostly what I've been doing all day. You can do that while wearing a cosplay outfit. The cosplay outfit is given to you by conan o brian.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:26
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NotJustANumber99 posted:I dunno why it would seem like that when no one here has suggested that at all. oh yes, i'm sure his NHS status was brought up as a pure coinky-dink and this individual - the only person we're talking about narcing on is the only person we collectively all know who is breaking the rules. horseshit it is - same poo poo that lead to that loving clap, because what they're doing is Heroic they're heroes - we're so appreciative that you decided to martyr yourselves for us, you decided, yes you did, here we'll be EFFUSIVE in our praise - can't believe you ingrates don't appreciate it.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:30
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nhs workers are neither loving mother teresa, nor superman nor robots. we are human beings and we make mistakes good loving god none of us signed up for this, i assure you when i was signing up my band 2 contract there was nothing in there about putting myself in mortal danger for 16 grand a loving year. give me a break. e: Scikar posted:
yeah i get a little protective about the workers who are keeping our country from being a mass funeral pyre, i'm funny that way. CoolCab fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Feb 11, 2021 |
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Feb 11, 2021 19:34
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Comrade Fakename posted:The new Adam Curtis doc series is up on iPlayer now: Any way for an American to watch this?
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Feb 11, 2021 19:43
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DukeDuke posted:Any way for an American to watch this? no you just have to wait two months until it comes out over there as revenge for hollywood doing that to us
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Feb 11, 2021 19:49
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CoolCab posted:you also have not been to a pub, or to get your hair cut, left your hometown or had anyone in your home or been in anyone else's home for the past year. Correct, correct, correct, correct, correct, and correct. I have obeyed the lockdown rules scrupulously, I have not left the house except for shopping (always masked etc) and one visit to the GP's that they told me to come in for. Of course it loving sucks, guess what, it's a global pandemic that's killed nearly two and a half million people, and of course the tories have spectacularly hosed up, that doesn't exempt anyone from following the medical advice (I'd love to know why you keep saying it doesn't work, because it sounds identical to banging on about how useless masks are). The pandemic isn't over because people are bored. Not that shopping the bloke to the plod is the right solution either, but yeah I would expect someone in the medical field to have a fairly loving acute appreciation for measures to slow the spread of the, again, deadly global pandemic, and the fact it's been a monstrosity of a year in that field only increases that expectation.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:52
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CoolCab, I agree with you that shopping this guy to managers/police/GMC is a terrible idea. What I can't glean from your posting is whether you think NHS workers should be following lockdown/tier/whatever rules we've got at the moment. You've said that not socialising would make them second class citizens, but no one following the rules is socialising at the moment. You said the rules don't work (agreed, our lockdowns have been shambolic) but while you are following stricter rules yourself you seem to be arguing on behalf of someone who has said gently caress it the rules don't work so I'm having a load of mates over. Just to be clear, because you're understandably worked up about this, I agree with the parts of your argument that I understand but I'm not understanding all of it.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:53
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CoolCab posted:also, i am assuming from this conversation that you also have not been to a pub, or to get your hair cut, left your hometown or had anyone in your home or been in anyone else's home for the past year you are pretty much correct. I've had my hair cut once, the guy was wearing a surgical shield and I had my own mask on until it made it impossible to trim around my ears
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Feb 11, 2021 19:57
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CoolCab posted:yeah i get a little protective about the workers who are keeping our country from being a mass funeral pyre, i'm funny that way. Look, you do you, I don't think he should report the doc either. Just remember that overreacting to the slightest criticism and citing exceptional circumstances are the same tactics the police use, part of why they're hosed up and so is narcing in the first place. Dude is concerned about his doc friends' behaviour and would like him to change it, you can point out that reporting him to the GMC is going to be way overboard without accusing him of wanting to get his friend sacked.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:58
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Borrovan posted:There would at least need to be some evidence that individual narcing was a halfway effective intervention before the consequences could be justified well we know that telling people they're idiots is completely ineffective and actually makes them double down. source: holy poo poo have you seen the last fifteen years
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Feb 11, 2021 19:59
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NHS workers are not second-class citizens, they are in fact zeroth-class citizens, immune from all laws of man. The Weekly Claptime has given them powers of divination and the ability to see individual virions and avoid them in bullet-timeDabir posted:well we know that telling people they're idiots is completely ineffective and actually makes them double down. source: holy poo poo have you seen the last fifteen years I've been telling people that exact thing on these forums since 2001 (?) and all I've gotten is a half-dozen account bans and literally infinity probations
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Feb 11, 2021 20:00
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Quite apart from the fact that they've already been infected so are an extremely low transmission risk, the question comes back to what's the greater risk of them being infected and passing it on to their patients? An evening of VR headset use or a year of literally touching infected patients every single day? Why do you think using the same piece of electronics is a bigger risk than being in a room with an infected patient undergoing intubation, nebuliser use or any of the dozens of other things that turn people into literal virus geysers? Does this Oculus Variant somehow have the ability to negate the cross-contamination precautions they take when moving between patients? it's not an either or thing, they're doing both and can easily not do one of them
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Feb 11, 2021 20:02
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