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I feel like this whole chapter is going to be an excuse for a bunch of hella cool imagery that Abaddon's spent the last five years thinking up.
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Feb 13, 2021 06:42
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IMJack posted:Maiden, Mother, Crone Yeah, this is a dope as hell envisioning of that concept.
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Feb 13, 2021 07:06
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habeasdorkus posted:Yeah, this is a dope as hell envisioning of that concept. A bit more badass than the Gunnerkrigg Court rendition but no less striking
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Feb 13, 2021 07:23
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Duodecimal posted:Spinner, Weaver, Cutter was my first thought. The Fates. And about to Bind Jagganoth with Fate itself I reckon. You literally cannot escape Fate, after all.
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Feb 13, 2021 07:51
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Zero_Tactility posted:How is this comic just consistently the coolest poo poo?
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Feb 13, 2021 09:06
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IMJack posted:Maiden, Mother, Crone Maidom, Mottom, Crom
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Feb 13, 2021 11:23
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IMJack posted:Maiden, Mother, Crone Zero_Tactility posted:How is this comic just consistently the coolest poo poo?
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Feb 13, 2021 11:26
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MikeJF posted:I feel like this whole
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Feb 13, 2021 13:45
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Mottom is loving this poo poo!
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Feb 13, 2021 14:40
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GunnerJ posted:Mottom is loving this poo poo! Yeah, the alt text is "Mottom only gets to bust this one out every few thousand years so she's understandably stoked." I'm stoked too, Granny.
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Feb 13, 2021 15:43
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habeasdorkus posted:Yeah, the alt text is "Mottom only gets to bust this one out every few thousand years so she's understandably stoked." I'm stoked too, Granny. To be a huge dork about this, this establishes Mottom has been an apocalyptic sorceress for long enough to have 'every few thousand years' make sense. So the reign of the New Gods is crushingly long. Multiple times the length of urban civilization on Earth.
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Feb 13, 2021 20:11
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I'm still giggling about Mottom's Bottom
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Feb 13, 2021 20:12
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NEVER TALK TO ME, MYSELF OR I AGAIN! / 
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Feb 13, 2021 20:17
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dope
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Feb 13, 2021 20:24
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It would be kinda hilarious if it turns out the thing Abbadon was talking about that would make everyone mad is in fact Jagg getting beaten pretty quickly by the other demiurges now that they're working together to some extent after getting built up so heavily by the comic prior to this Even more so if this turned out to be Jagg's plan the whole time to setup something even bigger
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Feb 13, 2021 21:42
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drrockso20 posted:It would be kinda hilarious if it turns out the thing Abbadon was talking about that would make everyone mad is in fact Jagg getting beaten pretty quickly by the other demiurges now that they're working together to some extent after getting built up so heavily by the comic prior to this Jagg is defeated so they all squabble over the key and then realize Allison is right over there.
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Feb 13, 2021 22:14
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drrockso20 posted:It would be kinda hilarious if it turns out the thing Abbadon was talking about that would make everyone mad is in fact Jagg getting beaten pretty quickly by the other demiurges now that they're working together to some extent after getting built up so heavily by the comic prior to this i really don't believe, based on the comic so far, that Operant is interested in telling the kind of story where a glancing interaction with the hero's golden heart and indomitable will automagically converts/redeems thousand-year despots into protagonists. the fact that half the thread is now cheering them on because they pulled out some flashy combo moves to oppose the one other force in the comic really intent on disrupting what's portrayed as an utterly rotten system is evidence enough, i m o, that jagg is if not 100% in the right here definitely an ally in her holy mission to expunge the demons that Allison will be made to rue rejecting HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Feb 13, 2021 |
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Feb 13, 2021 22:15
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Oh no I still think all six of the other demiurges are gonna die here. But they will all get a full page named anime attack out of it before they get murdered and the story moves on.
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Feb 13, 2021 22:27
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HookedOnChthonics posted:i really don't believe, based on the comic so far, that Operant is interested in telling the kind of story where a glancing interaction with the hero's golden heart and indomitable will automagically converts/redeems thousand-year despots into protagonists. the fact that half the thread is now cheering them on because they pulled out some flashy combo moves to oppose the one other force in the comic really intent on disrupting what's portrayed as an utterly rotten system is evidence enough, i m o, that jagg is if not 100% in the right here definitely an ally in her holy mission to expunge the demons that Allison will be made to rue rejecting Jagg is definitely not 100% in the right. If you think that the comic is going to suddenly endorse Hard Men Making Hard Decisions (to kill a ton of innocent people as idle collateral damage) then you have not been paying attention. Jagg is definitely right that the system is fundamentally corrupt, but he's still a part of it.
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Feb 13, 2021 22:50
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Captain Oblivious posted:Jagg is definitely not 100% in the right. If you think that the comic is going to suddenly endorse Hard Men Making Hard Decisions (to kill a ton of innocent people as idle collateral damage) then you have not been paying attention. Hard Men Making Hard Decisions (to kill a ton of innocent people as idle collateral damage) describes the people fighting Jagg just as much as it describes Jagg. Mottom was introduced having killed a ton of innocent people as just the price of her doing demigod business. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Feb 13, 2021 |
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Feb 13, 2021 22:56
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The conversation with zoss was about how none of the demiurges could ever be correct or worth allying with. Participating in the system of "killing to amass singular power" will ruin any ambition, even if its heroic.
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Feb 13, 2021 23:16
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The demiurges are awful monsters that need to be taken down, but they've got some really cool wizard kung fu.
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Feb 13, 2021 23:35
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HookedOnChthonics posted:i really don't believe, based on the comic so far, that Operant is interested in telling the kind of story where a glancing interaction with the hero's golden heart and indomitable will automagically converts/redeems thousand-year despots into protagonists. the fact that half the thread is now cheering them on because they pulled out some flashy combo moves to oppose the one other force in the comic really intent on disrupting what's portrayed as an utterly rotten system is evidence enough, i m o, that jagg is if not 100% in the right here definitely an ally in her holy mission to expunge the demons that Allison will be made to rue rejecting Jaggs is the villain lol The other demiurges are also villains, but he's absolutely not on Allison's side. Y'know, like how he responded to her asking why he killed a bunch of innocent civilians by saying "they're better off dead help me kill everyone else"
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Feb 14, 2021 00:03
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aegof posted:The demiurges are awful monsters that need to be taken down, but they've got some really cool wizard kung fu. So it's impossible to say if they're bad or not
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Feb 14, 2021 00:09
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Schwarzwald posted:Hard Men Making Hard Decisions (to kill a ton of innocent people as idle collateral damage) describes the people fighting Jagg just as much as it describes Jagg. Yes? Thus the meaning of the part of the quote you snipped. Jagganoth is part of the system he protests against, whatever he may believe. If he succeeds he will just slam head first into the same problem Zoss did. Every single one of them including Jagganoth is an obstacle to meaningful change.
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Feb 14, 2021 00:16
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skaianDestiny posted:Jaggs is the villain lol yeop as the demiurge bearer of the word Blade, jaggs' only answer is annihilation. his limited view of the solution to the existential quandary posed by zoss doesn't make his solution any more viable
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Feb 14, 2021 00:20
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They have power, but not strength beyond strength.
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Feb 14, 2021 00:20
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Jaggs is a villain just as Salami Dave is a villain. They are both architects of the same system and responsible for the corruption of that system. Both are set in their ways and see no way out except the narrow path they set for themselves. Dave has no out and Jaggs wants to burn it to the ground because he sees no ways to redeem it. Because of this are limited in what they can achieve. Mottom on the other hand is unchained, which is cool to see, but i feel like she's burning out and has no place in this world after this is done. Same as Mammon in a way. They both woke up and they're not going back to the prisons they created for themselves. Unlike Dave who would go back, but probably can't after this is over. Alison has on multiple occasions rejected to follow in their footsteps and has shown willingness to change. She refused Mottons offer, she refused to step in when she lost in the Tournament and White Chain had to fight alone. She denied herself the power Incubus gave her. She walked away in Mammon's Vault. I don't know what her goals might be after this, but so far she's been willing to change her goals and reflect on what's she's been willing to do to achieve those goals. She's everything the Demiurges are not. I'm still worried about the Concordance of Angels though. We haven't seen them in this fight and we know they are gathering. If Michael 2 seizes this moment to restore the old order then there will be (more) bloodshed. If Jaggs isn't in an alliance with the Concordance then they won't hesitate exploiting this situation for their own agenda. I really like this comic. It has thrown me for a loop on multiple occasions and it never felt trite or a cliche. Abadon is really good at what he does. The development of themes, politics, worldbuilding and characters really is excellent. And the loving artwork is fantastic. AND IT'S FREE!
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Feb 14, 2021 00:51
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a big part of this is that we haven't gotten any characterization at all on what the red army is like, where operant definitely uses an examination of the system a ruler perpetuates as character development for them, and i'm projecting righteous rejection of the 7's status quo and/or metatron's awful scheming onto them we've seen life under mottom (sucks hardcore), mammon (sucks hardcore), soldave (sucks hardcore), incubus (sucks hardcore, literally), and gog (owns (because you're worms))—all we have on jagg's folks is that they really, really believe in his mission. if it turns out that they're a bunch of mindless berserker fighting-for-fightings' sake dudes i;ll happily acknowledge my mistake but rn it seems likely to me that he has stumbled on the cause of Justice if only as a broken-clock-twice-right kind of thing but right now jagganoth's status as 'obvious big bad' is solely an informed characteristic as related to us by his enemies i don't think nuking rayuba is good, but i also think it's totally explicable within jagg's understanding of how death and life work within metatron's cosmos (ie a totally meaningless division, and given what we know about the cosmic order of things is he really wrong???). i think its precise role in the story is giving allison a 'legitimate' reason to oppose him here, when their goals ultimately will align closely (like does anyone think allison will end up not fighting michael and metatron??? really?????) the jadis cultists are similarly a mystery, who the gently caress knows what her deal is
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Feb 14, 2021 01:30
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Draadnagel posted:She denied herself the power Incubus gave her. While I broadly agree with you, if not in detail, she absolutely hasn't done this. She just got her ambition under control - she still trains with Incubus. Incubus is still the one to watch, because like Jagganoth he expected this rotten order to collapse eventually and planned for it. Like Jagganoth, he sees that the world is rotten - in fact, he's the character that first said 'this rotten world' when he was exhorting Allison to recognize that violence is the only thing that matters, because violence is inescapable and all things can be undone by it. Which, incidentally, appears to be a major part of Jagganoth's problem with the universe: That violence is inescapable, and those who can do great violence can undo anything else. Allison, on the other hand, is someone we know is capable of recognizing that something sucks without either being overtaken by it or deciding that any price (paid mostly by other people) is worthwhile to deal with it. She's the real change to the cycle, and what that will look like we don't know yet, but I'm reasonably certain that it's going to look something like 'a better world is possible' - the antithesis of both Incubus and Jagganoths' perspectives, and generally an alien view to the Seven. Incubus is interesting because he might be capable of recognizing that, but he'll never accept it. He can't stand losing, nor being potentially proven wrong. He also has Maya bearing down on him, which is going to be exciting. As for Jagganoth vs. the Seven, I think choosing between the world dying fast vs. dying slow, I'd prefer slow but I would prefer neither more than anything else. If Jagganoth were right that no better world was possible, then maybe multiversal megadeath could be a mercy, but he's transparently wrong.
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Feb 14, 2021 01:31
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HookedOnChthonics posted:a big part of this is that we haven't gotten any characterization at all on what the red army is like, where operant definitely uses an examination of the system a ruler perpetuates as character development for them, and i'm projecting righteous rejection of the 7's status quo and/or metatron's awful scheming onto them We know that Abbadon once said he'd prefer to live in the Celestial Empire of Solomon David, compared to any of the other domains. Including Jagganoth's worlds. Make of that what you will.
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Feb 14, 2021 01:32
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i mean a lot of people would prefer the experience of a german citizen 1939-45 than a polish partisan in the same timeframe, just saying
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Feb 14, 2021 01:49
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HookedOnChthonics posted:a big part of this is that we haven't gotten any characterization at all on what the red army is like, where operant definitely uses an examination of the system a ruler perpetuates as character development for them, and i'm projecting righteous rejection of the 7's status quo and/or metatron's awful scheming onto them They are. Some of Jagg's most ardent followers only follow him because they couldn't kill him. They're blood thirsty berserkers. People following Jaggs do so because they want to kill people and then kill themselves once they're done. Oh yeah, we actually do have characterization for one of Jagg's followers:  I'm sure he's the thoughtful revolutionary you're imagining. skaianDestiny fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Feb 14, 2021 |
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Feb 14, 2021 01:50
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HookedOnChthonics posted:i mean a lot of people would prefer the experience of a german citizen 1939-45 than a polish partisan in the same timeframe, just saying Polish partisans don't want to kill all Polish people.
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Feb 14, 2021 01:51
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You're trying to shoehorn Jaggs into "noble warrior fighting against the tyranny of the system" but he's actually "literally kill everyone because the very act of existing is suffering." His solution to the problem that there's homeless people? Kill the homeless people. Orphans? Kill the orphans (maybe raise them into warriors like himself so they can kill more people). Women's rights? Kill all the women. Racism? Can't be racism if everyone's equal (dead). Gay marriage? Under Jaggs, you can be with whomever you love (which is six feet underground, dead).
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Feb 14, 2021 01:54
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If I ask you "hey, the system doesn't allow me, a girl, to marry my girlfriend, what is your plan to fix it?" and your answer is "I'll shoot you both in the head so you don't have to suffer" you're probably not gonna be on Allison's side.
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Feb 14, 2021 02:00
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seems like a p skewed evaluation of the stakes of the conflict!skaianDestiny posted:They are. Some of Jagg's most ardent followers only follow him because they couldn't kill him. They're blood thirsty berserkers. counterpoint: maya's 'apprentice' is a red army soldier, right? she definitely doesnt fit the mindless edgelord mold and all of mammon's followers are apparently people who tried to kill him out of a base instinct for greed, failed, and had that failure catalyze into appreciation for him and devotion to his cause. i think until we're shown explicit contradictory evidence we can assume the same of jagg's folks—that they're focused on his divine calling, which the other demiurges can only process as bloodlust because it so violently contravenes their interests i dont know how anyone reads the yuan ten jantris segments with anything other than compassion, and that plus jagg's opposition to metatron (who im sure you wont deny is bad news) combined with the earlier depictions of jagg as solely and pointedly pensive, depressed, and dissatisfied with the prime evil of the story (the pact of the seven part world) vs every other demiurge's gleeful pursuit of power............... i guess end of the day i trust operant to tell a satisfying story 
HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Feb 14, 2021 |
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Feb 14, 2021 02:09
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skaianDestiny posted:You're trying to shoehorn Jaggs into "noble warrior fighting against the tyranny of the system" but he's actually "literally kill everyone because the very act of existing is suffering." He's Judge Death but way bigger, and Judge Death is a great character, but also not somebody you should listen to.
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Feb 14, 2021 02:15
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HookedOnChthonics posted:i dont know how anyone reads the yuan ten jantris segments with anything other than compassion, and that combined with the earlier depictions of jagg as solely and pointedly pensive, depressed, and dissatisfied with the prime evil of the story (the pact of the seven part world) vs every other demiurge's gleeful pursuit of power............... i guess end of the day i trust operant to tell a satisfying story Jaggs has a very sympathetic origin story. You know, like with Mottom. Or Dave. That doesn't stop him from being a villain. HookedOnChthonics posted:seems like a p skewed evaluation of the stakes of the conflict! It's literally Jagg's stated goal lmao what do you think it is. He says to Allison "gimme your key so I can kill everyone more effectively." skaianDestiny fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Feb 14, 2021 |
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Feb 14, 2021 02:18
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he says 'gimme your key so i can end this hosed cosmic system' the fact that every one else cares about the trivial cruft on top of that system, like 'mortality,' is their own affair
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Feb 14, 2021 02:20
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