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theironjef posted:You're not wrong but that billboard is from I Am Legend. Yes? 
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Feb 15, 2021 19:07
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theironjef posted:You're not wrong but that billboard is from I Am Legend. It was put into I Am Legend as marketing.
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Feb 15, 2021 19:30
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Vince MechMahon posted:It was put into I Am Legend as marketing. Ah, I thought it was just a joke in the movie, like the Clone High movie reference in Spiderverse.
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Feb 15, 2021 19:48
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Fangz posted:The director is an important part of film production but is far from the only creative voice in most movies, and a lot of movies that were very successful critically or artistically ended up in the form they ended up *because* of the director having to work under heavy constraints, or were fixed in the edit by someone else. Star Wars is the biggest example, which also happens to be an example of a director going back to edit a released work to be closer to his vision and ruining it as a result. Indeed, in a great many movies, the director is not the main guy at all, and these movies are not intrinsically lesser. Say what you want about the quality of the Star Wars special editions (and I wouldn't necessarily disagree) but I think it's a net positive that they exist and that Lucas was able to produce them.
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Feb 15, 2021 19:55
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Schwarzwald posted:Say what you want about the quality of the Star Wars special editions (and I wouldn't necessarily disagree) but I think it's a net positive that they exist and that Lucas was able to produce them. Truth if only he hadn't immediately bent all his considerable efforts into also killing off the original versions.
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Feb 15, 2021 20:01
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:My favorite example of studio notes genuinely making the movie 1 million percent better is that we only go the Delorean in Back to the Future because the studio's lawyers put their foot down on Zemekis's original plan, which was that Marty McFly would travel back to the future by climbing inside a refrigerator located at an atomic bomb testing range*. They pointed out the massive legal liability in inspiring thousands of American children to experiment with time travel by climbing inside discarded refrigerators, and a movie icon was reluctantly born. ...huh. I was not aware of that.
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Feb 15, 2021 20:04
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Schwarzwald posted:Say what you want about the quality of the Star Wars special editions (and I wouldn't necessarily disagree) but I think it's a net positive that they exist and that Lucas was able to produce them. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Feb 15, 2021 20:13
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theironjef posted:Truth if only he hadn't immediately bent all his considerable efforts into also killing off the original versions. "Bent all his considerable efforts into also killing off the original versions" is a very loaded way of saying "choose not to sell as a product." As it happens, the original Star Wars films are some of the most accessible and available films in the world. Only, you can't pay money for them.
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Feb 15, 2021 20:15
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bushisms.txt posted:And this is where we disagree, the fact you think it's edgy means you don't know what the words means. There's nothing edgy about Snyder's dcu. That it makes you have feelings isn't edgy. Is nolan edgy now? He did the same thing, with a Batman in the " real world". Burton made Batman a lunatic, is he edgy? Just another reason why people that like the films have reason to believe you just don't get them. Which is fine, but you don't think it is. I guess the issue I have here is that Snyder fans are constantly asserting that anyone who feels differently to them clearly doesn’t know anything about analysing movies. Like, there’s no way maybe they’re reading too much into things! The other party must be a simpleton! The claims of edginess don’t come just from like “Batman does kill” or whatever, they come from the mix of this characterisation with his entire visual aesthetic. Steppenwolf’s new design is a good example of this. While it looks better than the Whedon version, what do you think it’s meant to portray besides “drat look how cool and badass this big monster is look at all the spikes isn’t that awesome”? It’s got that entire 90s comics overly xxxTREME thing going on with literally every aspect of it.
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Feb 15, 2021 20:21
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BrianWilly posted:But of course it's a semantic argument. If someone claims that a cut of a film that doesn't have sound, effects, color correction, or all the scenes shot is a finished cut or even almost finished...they're just wrong, or embellishing to give a false impression. An almost-finished cut of a film doesn't take thirty-million dollars to finish. The 214 cut was mostly done by almost any metric. The editing and previz was done, vxf ranged from completely done in some scenes to partially or not at all in others. That's a big difference from "oh it's just a workprint" or "it's a rough cut" or "it's not a workable cut" that was being (erroneously) reported at the time. Fans knew it wasn't entirely done, and campaigned for it to be released anyway because they didn't care. This whole "oh it wasn't 100% done, therefore we were right in that there never was a snyder cut" nonsense is what's disingenuous because that is not at all what was meant back then when they were writing articles saying there was no Snyder cut. It's hiding behind semantics.
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Feb 15, 2021 20:25
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The new design is literally covered in edges.
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Feb 15, 2021 20:25
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Steppenwolf looks like someone wearing a Destroyer onesie. Have we seen him from behind? Does he have the cute little butt flap?
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Feb 15, 2021 20:29
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Escobarbarian posted:I guess the issue I have here is that Snyder fans are constantly asserting that anyone who feels differently to them clearly doesn’t know anything about analysing movies. Like, there’s no way maybe they’re reading too much into things! The other party must be a simpleton! Anyone who thinks Snyder doesn't get the characters, or that the movies are about objectivist whatever do not get they're opinions validated no, because they're not pulling from the films, they're grasping at straws. Some people still fundamentally misunderstand Pa Kent, why entertain them after this long? At some point you'll have to realize not every movie is gonna be for or easy to grasp for you, doesn't matter what ip it is, true idiocy is thinking you know it all. Step is an alien warrior from another planet that has interdimensional travel tech while also dealing in nihilism and more. Snyder choosing not to make him a regular him a regular humanoid is a good thing.
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Feb 15, 2021 20:46
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The "Batman might get prison raped in my movie" guy isn't about being edgy I have no idea why you would all say this.
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Feb 15, 2021 20:50
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Well, either a director's style speaks to you or it doesn't. You can try to explain why you think what you think about it, and then other people might tell you that the thing you said doesn't make any sense to them. As long as the goal is to find some common ground, rather than to slot a movie (or worse, the people who like or dislike it) definitively into a category like Good or Bad or Edgy - as long as the goal is to try to learn something from the art - then that should be fine, right?
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Feb 15, 2021 20:53
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bushisms.txt posted:Step is an alien warrior from another planet that has interdimensional travel tech while also dealing in nihilism and more. Snyder choosing not to make him a regular him a regular humanoid is a good thing. I mean, that's also what Zod is. DC is pretty consistent with the whole "space is just full of humans, near humans, humans with wings, and New Gods, most of which look pretty dang human." If anything the big reason to turn Steppenwolf into a monster is to differentiate him from Ares, because they've always looked sorta samey.
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Feb 15, 2021 20:54
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Aphrodite posted:The "Batman might get prison raped in my movie" guy isn't about being edgy I have no idea why you would all say this. Are we gonna continue taking this out of context? Maybe read the whole thing. This was during a watchmen interview and Zack was comparing the then current hero trend vs watchmen's take. Watchmen had rorschach watching his mom get hosed, but we're too believe bruce wayne is just the toughest ever and no one could ever hang with him at any time, especially when he was slumming it prebatman. theironjef posted:I mean, that's also what Zod is. DC is pretty consistent with the whole "space is just full of humans, near humans, humans with wings, and New Gods, most of which look pretty dang human."
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Feb 15, 2021 20:57
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Yes, because Zack Snyder has made Watchmen 3 times.
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Feb 15, 2021 20:58
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Aphrodite posted:Yes, because Zack Snyder has made Watchmen 3 times. Thank you for proving you don't get the movies I guess. All you have to do is find zacks interviews on the subjects, he's done a bunch. His words are plain enough.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:00
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bushisms.txt posted:Are we gonna continue taking this out of context? Maybe read the whole thing. This was during a watchmen interview and Zack was comparing the then current hero trend vs watchmen's take. Watchmen had rorschach watching his mom get hosed, but we're too believe bruce wayne is just the toughest ever and no one could ever hang with him at any time, especially when he was slumming it prebatman. "Everyone says that about "Batman Begins." "Batman's dark." I'm like, "Okay, no, Batman's cool." He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn't, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that's how that would go." how does that change the context at all
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Feb 15, 2021 21:01
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Later on, he made a Batman movie where that doesn't happen.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:01
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Lunatic Sledge posted:.my movie" Yes in watchmen. What else? See how he mentions batman begins, where wayne goes to prison before becoming a ninja in a "poo poo hole" country?
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Feb 15, 2021 21:03
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Bongo Bill posted:Later on, he made a Batman movie where that doesn't happen. I mean we don't know the backstory of his Batman, maybe it did.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:04
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Feb 15, 2021 21:06
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The context he means is that Zack Snyder was upset that a “second tier” hero like Iron Man made so much money. More than he did later with the 2 biggest superheroes ever and the full momentum of superhero cinema in fact, but who’s counting? He was upset that people called the Nolan Batman movies dark, because that’s not dark rape is dark! That’s not dark, Superman tearing people apart is dark! That’s the brilliant wisdom that we lose taking the quote out of context. My apologies. Incidentally he has numerous prison scenes in Watchmen and in them makes Rorschach a super untouchable badass.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:11
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Rorschach is an untouchable badass for like 90% of the comic, Alan Moore has even said he probably made the character too cool. I’ve never understood the criticism that the movie was the one that made Rorschach “cool” when there were plenty of nerds online who thought he was a badass well before the movie came out.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:14
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Insisting that there's nothing dark or edgy about Zack Snyder's films is easily the most disingenuous position I've ever seen anyone take on any topic outside of political arguments.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:14
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Aphrodite posted:The context he means is that Zack Snyder was upset that a “second tier” hero like Iron Man made so much money. More than he did later with the 2 biggest superheroes ever and the full momentum of superhero cinema in fact, but who’s counting? He wasn't wrong because now you're calling his current films dark, and they aren't!  And watchmen did a good enough job on it's own, Snyder just elevated the movie because people expect more from modern superheroes than a couple punches. Not enough rape by the standards of your Snyder Strawman I know.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:17
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bushisms.txt posted:Thank you for proving you don't get the movies I guess. All you have to do is find zacks interviews on the subjects, he's done a bunch. His words are plain enough. It always ends up boiling down to this. There’s nothing to “get”, dude makes stylish but mediocre movies and there’s nothing wrong with liking them. You don’t also need to try to elevate them to some kind of masterpiece to justify your enjoyment of bad movies. Everyone likes dumb poo poo.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:18
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There's actually no such thing as depth.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:19
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A talking coyote posted:It always ends up boiling down to this. Never said masterpiece, and why are they bad? There's something to get, that's why they're constantly talked about, unlike any individual mcu film. Is it just the same old, got your characters wrong complaint? The cgi not colorful enough?
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Feb 15, 2021 21:20
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Sure depth is a thing but Snyder’s splashing around in kiddy pools while his fans are trying to sell an ocean.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:21
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A talking coyote posted:Sure depth is a thing but Snyder’s splashing around in kiddy pools while his fans are trying to sell an ocean. Once again someone dabbling in gaslighting when you can't articulate the issue.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:22
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bushisms.txt posted:Never said masterpiece, and why are they bad? There's something to get, that's why they're constantly talked about, unlike any individual mcu film. Is it just the same old, got your characters wrong complaint? The cgi not colorful enough?  Just keep banging that drum.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:22
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bushisms.txt posted:Some people still fundamentally misunderstand Pa Kent, why entertain them after this long? At some point you'll have to realize not every movie is gonna be for or easy to grasp for you, doesn't matter what ip it is, true idiocy is thinking you know it all. I mean, c'mon, man. You're literally doing exactly what they said in the post you're responding to. You're not even trying not to.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:23
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It's one interview and I reckon we can give Snyder the benefit of the doubt for saying something dumb. I've said lots of dumb things, luckily no one interviews me so there's no record (apart from on these forums!). But, come on, what he said is really dumb edge lord stuff, and worthy of people making fun of it.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:24
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Phylodox posted:I mean, c'mon, man. You're literally doing exactly what they said in the post you're responding to. You're not even trying not to. I'm explicitly giving examples, in return I get told everyone is an idiot for liking an idiots work. Exactly the same yes.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:24
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bushisms.txt posted:Never said masterpiece, and why are they bad? There's something to get, that's why they're constantly talked about, unlike any individual mcu film. Is it just the same old, got your characters wrong complaint? The cgi not colorful enough? I don't agree with others that Snyder's films are totally shallow or anything. I think he's absolutely saying something, although I totally disagree with what he's saying in most cases. But this is a really lovely, disingenuous argument that's just as bad as anything being said from the other side here.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:25
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bushisms.txt posted:Thank you for proving you don't get the movies I guess. Okay. I really wanted to start avoiding these arguments because they just make me miserable in the end but I feel the need to respond here: "you just don't get it" is not helpful, it's not incisive, and 98% of the time it's not even correct. The only reason to say it and keep saying it here is to make some dumb rhetorical maneuver to try to dismiss opposing viewpoints. Believe it or not, most of Zack Snyder's oeuvre is not actually that complicated from a story perspective. That remains true of most blockbusters, even. If you're any good at interpreting films at all you can generally look at an entire movie and figure out what pieces placed where are combining to have what effect. And Snyder, for better or for worse, is an extremely blunt director in this regard. This is the dude who kept putting incredibly in-your-face Jesus imagery in Man of Steel. You see Pa Kent and see a father trying to protect his son. When I look at Pa Kent I see someone criticizing his son for his altruism and whose ultimate role in the story is to be an obstacle to that altruism that his son has to overcome. And neither of us are "wrong," per se. Those are both readings based in the film, so stop pretending one of them is "better." Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice isn't, like, Computer Chess (completely random example). It's not some arthouse film where half the point is being opaque. Saying "you don't get it" is lovely, because not only is it not true, it's an attempt to shut down the conversation when it goes in a direction that you don't like. Something can be "the point" and also not a good choice.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:27
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A talking coyote posted:It always ends up boiling down to this. This is pretty much what it comes down to for me yeah. It’s like we‘ve gone way beyond death of the author and “I got this from this movie, therefore it’s a valid reading and I appreciate it on that level” to “I got this from this movie, therefore it was TOTALLY INTENTIONAL on the part of the creator and he is unquestionably a genius, despite any evidence to the contrary!” I first encountered it with that fantastic Transformers analysis from god knows how many years ago now in CD. It’s an incredibly entertaining read on the films and how Bay accidentally ended up creating something so bizarre and with subtextual themes that go so against the surface level, but then people started arguing that no, Bay actually meant to do that, and it was just so weird, and the whole Snyder thing is that writ large with a director’s entire filmography
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Feb 15, 2021 21:27
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