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ApplesandOranges posted:I tend to use handheld though, is the performance rate bad on that? I pretty much only play handheld, and the few times I do play on TV I've never noticed a difference in performance. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Feb 15, 2021 03:07
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| # ? May 30, 2024 23:07 |
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Zenkichi's English VA is a treasure, his freak-out at Jails is amazing
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Feb 16, 2021 06:35
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Junpei posted:Zenkichi's English VA is a treasure, his freak-out at Jails is amazing Zenkichi's English VA is absolutely a huge standout. It's amazing just how good his dub is.
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Feb 16, 2021 06:42
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Playing some more through Devil Survivor 2 and I found out the hard way that the Nicaea videos are serious business. Sorry, Jungo.  I assumed they were more of a Persona "wow we'd better save that person quickly..... in 2 weeks time maybe" type deal. 
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Feb 16, 2021 11:38
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 It's fine. I did the same thing back in 2012. Poor Jungo. 
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Feb 16, 2021 14:22
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 I don't think the game successfully communicates the urgency of that particular case.
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Feb 16, 2021 15:17
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Considering his death is the only one that actively changed a character's social link events, it was probably expected.
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Feb 16, 2021 15:30
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Yeah, I think the folks that didn't have that occur on their first run are the exception not the rule.
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Feb 16, 2021 16:07
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Unlucky7 posted:I want to know its weird that blatant homophobia/transphobia is a recurring series trait in persona games, i assume thats what the thread title is about they clearly go out of their way to add it in, but why? is it in SMT too?
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Feb 16, 2021 16:17
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Characterization in most mainline games pre-Nocturne was slim and mostly relayed subtly or through side materials. Hell, even in Nocturne itself, characterization was brief, but well done sometimes. IIRC my audio novels/dramas, the DemiFiend is kind of a nerd wrt the occult and poo poo.
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Feb 16, 2021 16:35
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Communist Thoughts posted:its weird that blatant homophobia/transphobia is a recurring series trait in persona games, i assume thats what the thread title is about All but two shopkeepers in Nocturne are the same overexaggerated "fabulous" gay stereotype character who is always flirting with the main character; iirc it was also Katsura Hashino's directorial debut before Persona 3-5 and Catherine. While there isn't really proof of who is responsible for it, he usually gets the blame for these elements in the fan community since they have only appeared in games that he directed. There were also a couple of merchants in Soul Hackers that were bordering on that stereotype but not as bad. As far as the Persona games themselves it's only in 4 and 5; Persona 2 is notable for heavily implying that the main character and another central character are gay but treating them respectfully. While there's no excuse for the homophobic characters in Persona 5, in some of the other games it feels sometimes like they might be trying to seriously handle gay/trans issues but are so out of touch that they end up bungling them to the point where they become offensive instead. Item Getter fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Feb 16, 2021 |
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Feb 16, 2021 16:40
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Also take into account that, while Hashino might be the most blatant of the bunch, it's very unlikely he's the only one. Hell, Nocturne itself had four writers, including Kazuyuki Yamai (who would go on to direct the IV duology as well).
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Feb 16, 2021 16:44
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The localization team for P5 Royal tried their best to paper over the homophobia in their rewrite of those two scenes but it probably would've been better to just cut them entirely. You'd never even know those scenes were missing if you didn't know they were there to begin with.
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Feb 16, 2021 16:59
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None of this would be happened if tadashi was still around
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Feb 16, 2021 17:01
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Harrow posted:The localization team for P5 Royal tried their best to paper over the homophobia in their rewrite of those two scenes but it probably would've been better to just cut them entirely. You'd never even know those scenes were missing if you didn't know they were there to begin with. That is part of the reason why I hate them so much. They were just thrown in for shits and giggles and added nothing to the story.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:02
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Did the part of them being based on a comedy group that are huge LGBT activists end up not being true? I always thought that added extra malice to that scene, but I don't hear anyone bringing that part up anymore.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:09
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I don't think that most people have enough context to even know about that (but I've heard it before).
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Feb 16, 2021 17:13
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Harrow posted:The localization team for P5 Royal tried their best to paper over the homophobia in their rewrite of those two scenes but it probably would've been better to just cut them entirely. You'd never even know those scenes were missing if you didn't know they were there to begin with. It would've been the right thing to do to cut them entirely, though I'm sure it would've drawn the ire of the vagina bones brigade
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Feb 16, 2021 17:13
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Electric Phantasm posted:Did the part of them being based on a comedy group that are huge LGBT activists end up not being true? It's bullshit apparently, but not 100% sure since it's hard to find solid stuff about it.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:32
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Persona 4 is an interesting case because I think the two stories about gender that it tries to tell--one about a boy who is still figuring out his sexuality and is made to feel ashamed about his interest in "girly" things, and one about a girl who dreams of entering an extremely male-dominated field and has internalized a ton of misogyny about that--are worthwhile stories to tell. It's just that the game cloaks them in a bunch of homophobia and transphobia and fumbles them both as a result. With Kanji, I think the game largely presents his sexuality as something he's still figuring out and is still uncomfortable with, right up to the end, and that's fine, he's 15 and has a ton of internalized homophobia. It's just that the story features a ton of over-the-top "gays are sexual predators" imagery and also portrays Yosuke's homophobia as a joke at Kanji's expense. Kanji himself is a perfectly good character (and my favorite in Persona 4) but everything around him is fumbled pretty badly. And then with Naoto, it's clear that the intention of the story is not that Naoto is a boy, but rather a cis girl who presents as a boy as a reaction to misogyny, both from others and internalized. But it's surrounded by a ton of transphobia, both in a sort of body horror sense with Naoto's shadow and in a weird fetishized schoolgirl scene with some of the scenes if your protagonist romances Naoto. And this is just speculation but it would not surprise me one bit if there's a big TERF narrative about trans men transitioning because of internalized misogyny that Naoto's story stumbles into as well. I think that's why I find Persona 4 kind of frustrating. I think the stories it wants to tell about Kanji and Naoto are worthwhile stories to tell, but because they're drenched in homophic and transphobic tropes, neither story can actually work. Item Getter posted:It would've been the right thing to do to cut them entirely, though I'm sure it would've drawn the ire of the vagina bones brigade Rewriting the scenes already did piss off that group, so yeah, they should have just cut the scenes entirely.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:36
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Harrow posted:And this is just speculation but it would not surprise me one bit if there's a big TERF narrative about trans men transitioning because of internalized misogyny that Naoto's story stumbles into as well. That absolutely is a thing, yes, in TERF and other radfem circles.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:41
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Item Getter posted:It would've been the right thing to do to cut them entirely, though I'm sure it would've drawn the ire of the vagina bones brigade If anything, I'd consider that another reason to cut it.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:43
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And just change Ryuji's line to complaining about being ditched when it comes up in the story.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:45
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I always feel a little uncomfortable discussing the Persona games because I really love these games. All of them. Well, maybe except for Persona 1, but it's still pretty cool in its own way. Persona 5 (especially Royal) is probably one of my top 5 favorite video games, and recently replaying Persona 4 Golden reminded me that I loved that game more than I remembered. I also know that Persona 4 and 5 feature some really hurtful poo poo. I think it's important to be aware of and acknowledge that kind of thing even, or especially, in media that you like, and that it doesn't mean you can't keep liking that media. And that it's also absolutely nobody's business what someone else doesn't like, so if those scenes are a dealbreaker to someone, that is their call and nobody else's. And yet I still feel weird admitting that I still really like these games, so I dunno, maybe that should tell me something.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:55
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really even without the ---phobia in p4 the stories with naoto and kanji would still be kind of lame in the context of the modern persona series. like they talk a big game about breaking social norms, your True Self, etc etc but the most socially unacceptable thing they're willing to get into is loving your hot teacher who's also a maid. like there's nothing wrong with the stories in a vacuum but they're lame in the context of it being the only thing they can think to do with gay or trans people. as opposed to you know, actually having one of them in the party.
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Feb 16, 2021 18:13
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Harrow posted:Persona 4 is an interesting case because I think the two stories about gender that it tries to tell--one about a boy who is still figuring out his sexuality and is made to feel ashamed about his interest in "girly" things, and one about a girl who dreams of entering an extremely male-dominated field and has internalized a ton of misogyny about that--are worthwhile stories to tell. It's just that the game cloaks them in a bunch of homophobia and transphobia and fumbles them both as a result. There's also the issue of just...mixing their narratives with plot things that make those narratives not make sense at all. Naoto's prepresenting as a man to get into the field would land a lot better if you ever saw anyone give her poo poo about being a detective because she was a woman, but they don't. They say later that it happens in her dungeon and S. Link but what they show contradicts that completely. The only cop you see complain about her is Dojima and even in his drunken stupor he's just mad that the big city cops sent a pre-teen because they think he couldn't do his job. They want to tell a story but also don't at all. it really feels like they just tacked it on later to go "Hey we're talking about ISSUES here." ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Feb 16, 2021 |
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Feb 16, 2021 18:24
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The best thing Persona 5 did was get me to finally branch out into the other SMT games out there, and realize that Persona is really the weakest of the entire franchise.
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Feb 16, 2021 18:28
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nobody hates Persona games more than Persona fans
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Feb 16, 2021 18:30
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:There's also the issue of just...mixing their narratives with plot things that make those narratives not make sense at all. Naoto's representing as a man to get into the field would land a lot better if you ever saw anyone give her poo poo about being a detective because she was a woman, but they don't. They say later that it happens in her dungeon and S. Link but what they show contradicts that completely. The only cop you see complain about her is Dojima and even in his drunken stupor he's just made that the big city cops sent a pre-teen because they think he couldn't do his job.
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Feb 16, 2021 18:34
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Endorph posted:the issue there is that the two cops in the game are in order, a guy the game really wants you to like and a guy the game really wants you to like so the twist works. so they cant show the inaba police as sexist or incompetent because those two are associated with it, so theyj ust have the cops make actually fairly reasonable complaints about a literal child coming in from the big city to yell at the yokel cops. But that's, you could just write generic INaba cop being pissy about a Woman Detective coming in. It didn't have to be Dojima Is The Only Real cop. Hell, Have Dojima slap that guy on the back of the head to show while the prejudice exists Dojima doesn't tolerate it so he's still personally likable. It's so easy to just...actually write the scenes you need in the story instead of the 9th "They Can't Cook" joke. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Feb 16, 2021 |
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Feb 16, 2021 18:37
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Junpei posted:nobody hates Persona games more than Persona fans this is true of every fandom but also lol if you think this thread or forum generally is representative of persona fans
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Feb 16, 2021 18:39
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Super No Vacancy posted:this is true of every fandom ZenMasterBullshit posted:But that's, you could just write generic INaba cop being pissy about a Woman Detective coming in. It didn't have to be Dojima Is The Only Real cop. Hell, Have Dojima slap that guy on the back of the head to show while the prejudice exists Dojima doesn't tolerate it so he's still personally likable.
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Feb 16, 2021 18:48
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Super No Vacancy posted:this is true of every fandom but also lol if you think this thread or forum generally is representative of persona fans I might be off the mark but I get the feeling most people posting about Persona in this thread would not consider themselves fans of the series to any degree
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Feb 16, 2021 18:51
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I think most people in this thread do in fact love Persona. The Persona haters mostly bitch about it in the RPG thread.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:00
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I mean i'll defend Persona 2 and 2 as being classics, personally. And 3 is interesting in concept but delivered poorly. I think 4 marked a massive shift in the franchise where every single cast member's inter-personal relationships flow through you the protagonist and turned these neat ensemble casts into one of the weirdest power fantasy where everyone's personal growth is reliant entirely on your willingness to deign to spend time with them instead of 3 having them develop on their own outside of your relationship with them and you being there. Persona 5 kind of doubles down on a lot of 4's issues, but has the glam to kind of try to cover it all up. Royal fixes some of them and adds new ones but I'd at least Rec. it as basically a popcorn flick of a video game. I think if you want gang of teenagers get together, save the world and kill a god(s) you're probably better off with SMT4:A or Digital Devil Saga at this point. They're not as overly polished but you'll probably get something more from them than modern persona. EDIT: Like in 3 almost all of Akihiko and Shinji's character growth is based on their relationship and happens almost entirely in cutscenes with MC not there at all to even witness it. Even Junpei, the one you have the most direct relationship and contact with, gets his growth without even a word of encouragement from you. It's a much more filled out and...human feeling cast for it. They feel like people with more going on in their lives than fucntions that exist to aid or entertain you. Persona 5 further gamifying the relationships with directly tying your combat and exploration ability to leveling them up really doubled down on making them feel hollow as all hell, which I mean is supposed to make it feel like you're building your crime network but it never landed that well with how personal they try to make the relationships and the fact that you never let anyone in on it until the very end of it each so it's the character using them as much as its you the player doing it. IT's a game who's mechanics and narratives are fighting one another a lot. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Feb 16, 2021 |
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Feb 16, 2021 19:04
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I'll say one thing that playing Royal really drove home to me: You could, without exaggeration, cut like a third of the words in the Persona 5 script without losing a single plot or characterization beat or making them harder to understand. Good god does this game like to vastly overexplain things. Again, I love the hell out of this game, but even I mash through just about every text message conversation, because instead of using the text chain as a nice way to do characterization, they instead use it to reiterate every plot beat about seven times over.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:05
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My love of Persona 1 and 2 is true and powerful. (I also like the other games)
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Feb 16, 2021 19:05
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Persona 1 is a fantastic soundtrack with a decent game attached to it, that's obfuscated by the most strange and unique battle system the series tried. It didn't really work often, but at least they gave it a shot.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:09
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Harrow posted:I'll say one thing that playing Royal really drove home to me: And that third of the words is Mona.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:10
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Persona 2s are 'good' and since then they're... forgivable if unambitious and cowardly. it genuinely is the weak link of the SMT line, so of course it's the most successful
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Feb 16, 2021 19:12
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