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Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

Crosby B. Alfred posted:

What's the goon census on buying a generic apartment in a typical default big city high rise? Beyond normal buying advice such as deferred maintenance or HOAs is there anything else I should be looking at?

The context behind this is I'm originally from Southern California but it's ridiculous expensive for my budget but I could eventually save up. I'm thinking that I could buy a smaller place in a more affordable part of the Country for a few years and with my equity use that to get something back in Los Angeles.

Along with the hope that the housing crisis improves as well as it couldn't possible get any worse? :shrug:
General consensus is that it doesn't make sense to buy unless you plan to live there for 5+ years, given that the transaction costs are huge and the amortization rate means that you're not building much equity during the first couple years of a 30 year mortgage.

But run the numbers for your own situation and see if it makes sense.

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Gucci Loafers
May 20, 2006

Ask yourself, do you really want to talk to pair of really nice gaudy shoes?


Good call, I almost forgot about it but I'll play around with the NY Times Mortgage Calculator but does anyone know how to find or calculate some of the values like closing costs? Or do we think the defaults look good?

Hell, is like looking at the last decade of rent increasing going to even be that accurate in the first place?

Gucci Loafers fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Feb 16, 2021

Cormack
Apr 29, 2009
One things I've noticed about Zillow is that it it bounces around really hard based on on listing prices. We moved out of a rented condo whose owner had moved into a house. Zillow valued the condo at something like $565k. When we moved out the owner decided to sell the place rather than attempt to release it and set the price at $850k and the Zillow price estimate shot up to match. It was way overpriced and hit a double whammy with the pandemic and a year of cuts later finally sold for $650k, with Zillow's cost estimate following the price cuts all the way down.

Evil Robot
May 20, 2001
Universally hated.
Grimey Drawer
I work in a very related field to forecasting home prices and it's interesting to see the perspectives here match what we hear from customers. A lot of folks whose jobs depend on home price prediction (real estate industry) pooh poohing individual model outputs which is a bit silly when the overriding goals of the model are a) overall accuracy and b) reducing the number of "shocking" inaccuracies or inconsistencies (outside of the 30% range, reducing the variance day to day). I describe it to folks as if you're not an expert in this area, the forecasting algorithm will help get you situated and can reveal some interesting things comparing one property to another. I also try to give them a list of what it takes into account (self reported data + databases) and here's what it cannot know and what you should think about when coming up with your own predictions.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

Crosby B. Alfred posted:

What's the goon census on buying a generic apartment in a typical default big city high rise? Beyond normal buying advice such as deferred maintenance or HOAs is there anything else I should be looking at?

Like the other guy said, it does not make a lot of sense to buy one if you're gonna short term it. If you are going to short term it, make sure you have enough equity in it to turn it into a revenue neutral rental when you leave.

Long term it's fine if you like the neighborhood and both you and your neighbors vote in the same direction

$800 HOA is like buying a house for the same amount but $100,000 more expensive based on a standard 30 year mortgage. I.e. your 900,000 condo with $800/mo HOA is equivalent to buying a 1,000,000 house, so make sure you price that in accordingly, as your loan people will be as well

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

Hadlock posted:

Like the other guy said, it does not make a lot of sense to buy one if you're gonna short term it. If you are going to short term it, make sure you have enough equity in it to turn it into a revenue neutral rental when you leave.

Long term it's fine if you like the neighborhood and both you and your neighbors vote in the same direction

$800 HOA is like buying a house for the same amount but $100,000 more expensive based on a standard 30 year mortgage. I.e. your 900,000 condo with $800/mo HOA is equivalent to buying a 1,000,000 house, so make sure you price that in accordingly, as your loan people will be as well

The $800 HOA should be covering things that you'd be paying for out-of-pocket if you owned a house directly, so it's not a direct 1-for-1 comparison.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

Dik Hz posted:

The $800 HOA should be covering things that you'd be paying for out-of-pocket if you owned a house directly, so it's not a direct 1-for-1 comparison.

This was still a line item in our financing package, presumably because it's a fixed monthly cost that's extremely unlikely to ever decrease. That's about $10,000/year

Maybe some financing doesn't factor that in, but being over $250.00 usd, I'm gonna guess most companies are going to look at that

At least with a house if you have a leak or failing hot water heater, you might be able to limp along until the rainy season or winter or whatever. The bill is not due each month

Queen Victorian
Feb 21, 2018

I work for a data analytics company (not in real estate specifically) and the end goal isn’t so much determining the properties and behavior trajectories of an individual entity as it is predicting likely behavior trajectories of groups of entities based on shared characteristics, and what you assign to an individual entity is probability of behaving a certain way or having certain affinities. Or something like that. I’m just a designer, not a data scientist.

It makes sense that real estate analysis models are way better at predicting price or whatever when there are tons of quantitative attributes you can have an AI compare. I imagine it gets way harder when you get into neighborhoods with lots of arbitrary, qualitative differences in properties that don’t follow any particular pattern. Like “oh that house shares a property line with the guy with a pack of loud lovely dogs”.

But like what was mentioned earlier, the idiosyncrasies of an individual property matter a lot less if you’re a giant evil private equity firm buying up hundreds or thousands of houses to manage as overpriced rentals so that you can squeeze even more money out of the working class and make the American dream of homeownership even more difficult for huge swaths of the population.

Houses really should not be commoditized further (or at all, in an ideal world).

alnilam
Nov 10, 2009

Evil Robot posted:

I work in a very related field to forecasting home prices and it's interesting to see the perspectives here match what we hear from customers. A lot of folks whose jobs depend on home price prediction (real estate industry) pooh poohing individual model outputs which is a bit silly when the overriding goals of the model are a) overall accuracy and b) reducing the number of "shocking" inaccuracies or inconsistencies (outside of the 30% range, reducing the variance day to day). I describe it to folks as if you're not an expert in this area, the forecasting algorithm will help get you situated and can reveal some interesting things comparing one property to another. I also try to give them a list of what it takes into account (self reported data + databases) and here's what it cannot know and what you should think about when coming up with your own predictions.

Username/post combo :v:

lol but really yeah that's basically what I was saying. It's just that when on the hunt to buy a house, it doesn't take long to encounter a hilariously wrong zestimate (20% off is hilariously wrong because it means tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars). Ignore the hell out of zestimates for any house you are thinking about buying, but perhaps pay attention to them in aggregate when you are browsing around and casually trying to get a feel for what things cost.

Tezer
Jul 9, 2001

Ya, I agree, these property valuation models (zillow, redfin, etc.) may have accuracy appropriate for macro studies, or even micro property by property decisions if we are talking about an investor who can absorb risk into a larger portfolio.

But in the context of the 'house-buying' thread where most people are trying to buy a single home that fits their personal lifestyle, a home valuation algorithm just isn't going to provide terribly useful advice.

meanolmrcloud
Apr 5, 2004

rock out with your stock out

There’s a 50k difference in estimates between Zillow and Redfin on my sub 200k home. They are doing something radically different somewhere along the way.

biceps crimes
Apr 12, 2008


I wasn't filled with a ton of confidence talking to my Redfin agent in our last interaction after we had a quick meeting to go over a questionnaire after I asked about putting in an offer, since he suggested getting an inspector from an inspection company that can "have someone out in 24 hours" when I asked about the 10 days option period potentially being extended to be a bit longer. He talked about companies having a ton of inspectors ready to go as if it was a good thing. I have my own inspector that I found, he's a solo guy that's been doing it for 20 years and worked as a contractor before that, I don't want a dang inspector from the inspector vending machine. I'm having my own inspector, but the interaction soured me on Redfin. The inspection being an hour long rubber-stamp ordeal by a moron who doesn't care would stress me the gently caress out and make me walk on something that may be perfectly suitable

This market isn't red hot like some places, houses are hanging around for a week before they get bought, but I've already had two houses I really liked go pending in the past week. I used to live in the area for 15 years before, and I have a lot of family here, so I figured that I could rely on myself more, but I'm wondering if I should switch to a realtor outside Redfin, though I don't know what I would get out of doing it at this point when I'm already considering offers and am getting a crack at most properties that interest me.

biceps crimes fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Feb 17, 2021

Gucci Loafers
May 20, 2006

Ask yourself, do you really want to talk to pair of really nice gaudy shoes?


Hadlock posted:

Like the other guy said, it does not make a lot of sense to buy one if you're gonna short term it. If you are going to short term it, make sure you have enough equity in it to turn it into a revenue neutral rental when you leave.

Long term it's fine if you like the neighborhood and both you and your neighbors vote in the same direction

$800 HOA is like buying a house for the same amount but $100,000 more expensive based on a standard 30 year mortgage. I.e. your 900,000 condo with $800/mo HOA is equivalent to buying a 1,000,000 house, so make sure you price that in accordingly, as your loan people will be as well

Do most HOAs simply let you rent? I'd think it'd be more complicated than that but anyway playing with the NY Mortgage Calculator numbers. I'm a little skeptical about the price growth and buying/selling costs numbers but the last year has been crazy. Feel free to check my math but this is what I found searching...

  • Home Price Growth Rate - 5-8%
  • Rent Growth Rate - 3-5%
  • Inflation Rate - 3%
  • Buying Costs - 6-10%
  • Selling Costs - 2-5%
  • Investment - 5%

The costs of buying are just :eyepop:

Gucci Loafers fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Feb 17, 2021

AmbientParadox
Mar 2, 2005

Thanks. Although I meant this more for NJ Deac.The last few pages have been him denigrating traditional agents, but I wasn't sure his position on why the Redfin Agent was such a great alternative.

Crosby B. Alfred posted:

does anyone know how to find or calculate some of the values like closing costs? Or do we think the defaults look good?

Hell, is like looking at the last decade of rent increasing going to even be that accurate in the first place?
At least in California, it won't be. 1-2 years ago we passed a law putting a cap on rent price increases to 5% a year.


Queen Victorian posted:

It makes sense that real estate analysis models are way better at predicting price or whatever when there are tons of quantitative attributes you can have an AI compare. I imagine it gets way harder when you get into neighborhoods with lots of arbitrary, qualitative differences in properties that don’t follow any particular pattern. Like “oh that house shares a property line with the guy with a pack of loud lovely dogs”.

So there's this suburb of San Diego called Santee. Up until about 20 years ago it was mostly small farms. There's a Chicken Egg Ranch on the former outskirts of town. See, the constant need for housing means that a subdivision was built right next door to this place. If you check the area on Redfin, there's 1 house for sale and its about 20% less than anything near by, because that whole area will sometimes smell like dead chickens and chicken poop, and other times you'll have swarms of flies.

But none of that's listed on the MLS, so happy hunting.

NJ Deac
Apr 6, 2006

AmbientParadox posted:

Thanks. Although I meant this more for NJ Deac.The last few pages have been him denigrating traditional agents, but I wasn't sure his position on why the Redfin Agent was such a great alternative.


Sorry, I didn't realize the question was directed at me. Yeah, the customer value proposition is that it's cheaper. It's a gamble that the few thousand in savings on fees is larger than unrealized value on sale due to using a premium agent. Seems the thread consensus is that that is a losing bet, and I've been trying to understand why.

biceps crimes
Apr 12, 2008


BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:

Just chase the best rates from any lender that won't gently caress around and screw up closing.

Any advice on finding a lender that doesn't gently caress up closing? I'm shopping rates right now, I'm leaning local but it's not based on anything except gut feel and unreliable reviews.

Inner Light
Jan 2, 2020



I might put in a list price offer on a 1BR1BA small condo in Chicago's downtown central business district. The HOA is not bad at around $400/mo for a high rise, most high rises will be $800+. I figure this is not a forever home, but if I stay 3 years I will be ahead vs. paying rent at the amount I would've paid.

Garage parking included :unsmith:

It's a small place but it's just me, so I figure I'd be fine. I scheduled a tour for tomorrow, assuming someone doesn't nab it before then. If I get it, hopefully when I sell in a few years it doesn't take me 6 months to get rid of it!

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

gay_crimes posted:

Any advice on finding a lender that doesn't gently caress up closing? I'm shopping rates right now, I'm leaning local but it's not based on anything except gut feel and unreliable reviews.

It's not like NASA phds give up their careers exploring the surface of Mars with nuclear powered rovers to take up the exciting profession of processing loan documents

Closing is going to suck, they're gonna lose your documents, and it's probably going to run longer than absolutely necessary simply because they have quotas to meet and nothing more

ho fan
Oct 6, 2014

I'm reading some conflicting information between the OP and other sources I've found: what exactly counts as a liquid asset for purposes of a down payment/closing costs? I have a chunk of money in a taxable brokerage account that I'm planning to use for a down payment. Some sources call these liquid assets that would be treated like cash, but some (like the OP) say these are evaluated differently by the lender and are subject to be counted differently. Which is correct?

Also, should I be choosing a realtor before or after the pre-approval process? I've seen a lot of conflicting information on this as well.

alnilam
Nov 10, 2009

ho fan posted:

I'm reading some conflicting information between the OP and other sources I've found: what exactly counts as a liquid asset for purposes of a down payment/closing costs? I have a chunk of money in a taxable brokerage account that I'm planning to use for a down payment. Some sources call these liquid assets that would be treated like cash, but some (like the OP) say these are evaluated differently by the lender and are subject to be counted differently. Which is correct?

Also, should I be choosing a realtor before or after the pre-approval process? I've seen a lot of conflicting information on this as well.

I was in a similar situation with brokerage account funds in a money market sweep account that gave slightly better interest than the credit union, and i found out that it complicates things more than it's worth. Since it's not insured, you're better off moving sufficient funds to close into a regular bank account during the time you're looking. It's not gonna kill you to miss out on a few months of weak rear end money market returns.

Queen Victorian
Feb 21, 2018

gay_crimes posted:

This market isn't red hot like some places, houses are hanging around for a week before they get bought, but I've already had two houses I really liked go pending in the past week. I used to live in the area for 15 years before, and I have a lot of family here, so I figured that I could rely on myself more, but I'm wondering if I should switch to a realtor outside Redfin, though I don't know what I would get out of doing it at this point when I'm already considering offers and am getting a crack at most properties that interest me.

Is your guy local...? Our realtor literally grew up in/around the neighborhoods we were looking to buy in and lived very nearby, so had a deep connection to the area and knew it and its houses very well. I don’t remember anything else we had to do leading up to making an offer other than deciding to make an offer and then her making it happen. No questionnaires or forms or anything. She had good intuition about what we wanted and knew when to move fast. Overall she provided good insight into issues with particular houses, whether and when to lowball, did a good job strong-arming the seller into eating more of the closing costs, was honest about when a house was too weird/hosed up and to walk away, etc.

Sounds like Redfin agents provide a compelling low cost alternative to listing with a traditional agent, but I don’t quite understand the benefit of Redfin over a savvy traditional agent when you’re buying because it’s not like you have to pay your agent’s commission as a buyer.

I suppose if you absolutely hate your current agent or if you don’t trust his advice about forming good offers or whatever you could consider finding another agent. I’d be super put off by insistence on using the services of Inspectors-2-Go when you’ve already found your own inspector too. To be honest, we used our agent’s suggested inspector (didn’t start reading this thread until too late in our process) but he ended up being super thorough (took like four hours and used a drone to closely examine roof and chimneys) and delivered a fat full-color report and was from a respected operation, not a mass-market speed service. Even though we happened to luck out, everyone should retain their own independent inspector.

lampey
Mar 27, 2012

ho fan posted:

I'm reading some conflicting information between the OP and other sources I've found: what exactly counts as a liquid asset for purposes of a down payment/closing costs? I have a chunk of money in a taxable brokerage account that I'm planning to use for a down payment. Some sources call these liquid assets that would be treated like cash, but some (like the OP) say these are evaluated differently by the lender and are subject to be counted differently. Which is correct?

Also, should I be choosing a realtor before or after the pre-approval process? I've seen a lot of conflicting information on this as well.


For a conventional, fha, va, usda owner occupied mortgage with non terrible credit there is no reserve requirement in most cases. Some lenders require two months, still not a big issue.

Investments in a brokerage would count as long as they are vested. Retirement accounts are usually counted at 70% of the value to factor in the tax burden, and volatility. For investments they might use an average or the lowest value over two months.

For a down payment or other cash to close you need to actually pay cash. Liquidate your positions and wire the money to the title co. And you need to prove the funds are yours, not borrowed, not illegal proceeds, but past that it doesn't really matter

Bucnasti
Aug 14, 2012

I'll Fetch My Sarcasm Robes

AmbientParadox posted:

So there's this suburb of San Diego called Santee. Up until about 20 years ago it was mostly small farms. There's a Chicken Egg Ranch on the former outskirts of town. See, the constant need for housing means that a subdivision was built right next door to this place. If you check the area on Redfin, there's 1 house for sale and its about 20% less than anything near by, because that whole area will sometimes smell like dead chickens and chicken poop, and other times you'll have swarms of flies.

But none of that's listed on the MLS, so happy hunting.

Ha, I grew up just down the road from that egg ranch, everything around it was open fields, can’t believe they built houses next door.

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.

gay_crimes posted:

Any advice on finding a lender that doesn't gently caress up closing? I'm shopping rates right now, I'm leaning local but it's not based on anything except gut feel and unreliable reviews.

Best way to avoid lender gently caress-ups at closing is to buy in cash.

Lenders are morons. They will screw up the simplest task. They will ask you for a document, confirm receipt, and then someone else will call demanding it because they don't talk to each other. They will wait until the last minute to ask for things that you could have given them weeks earlier. They will cause you undue stress, and might even delay closing due to their ineptitude.

There are no good lenders. Shop by rate/costs, and use reviews to weed out any that look like they might REALLY gently caress things up. Paying a bit extra at closing isn't going to magically make closing easier.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

DaveSauce posted:

There are no good lenders. Shop by rate/costs, and use reviews to weed out any that look like they might REALLY gently caress things up. Paying a bit extra at closing isn't going to magically make closing easier.
not empty quoting this.

Residency Evil
Jul 28, 2003

4/5 godo... Schumi

Inner Light posted:

I might put in a list price offer on a 1BR1BA small condo in Chicago's downtown central business district. The HOA is not bad at around $400/mo for a high rise, most high rises will be $800+. I figure this is not a forever home, but if I stay 3 years I will be ahead vs. paying rent at the amount I would've paid.

Garage parking included :unsmith:

It's a small place but it's just me, so I figure I'd be fine. I scheduled a tour for tomorrow, assuming someone doesn't nab it before then. If I get it, hopefully when I sell in a few years it doesn't take me 6 months to get rid of it!

My brother in law bought a condo in Chicago back in 2006 or 2007 and it just recently regained its value back to where he bought it for!

Good luck! :v:

Johnny Truant
Jul 22, 2008




DaveSauce posted:

There are no good lenders. Shop by rate/costs, and use reviews to weed out any that look like they might REALLY gently caress things up. Paying a bit extra at closing isn't going to magically make closing easier.

Where can you find reviews like this? Thanks for the tip, too!

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Johnny Truant posted:

Where can you find reviews like this? Thanks for the tip, too!

What do you mean by "reviews like this"? What they said was a universal truth about the lending industry. Even if you have found a top rated broker somebody else in the process of underwriting is going to screw up and cause problems during the process. It's literally unavoidable other than by random chance.

The important thing is to KNOW that, so you can modify your expectations and behavior accordingly. Do not think it will go well, do allow for extra time in the days leading up to closing, do keep all documents easily accessible including and especially the ones you've already submitted so you can submit them again at a moment's notice when you're asked for it for the third goddamn time. (some of which I believe is a stalling tactic so if you can turn the request around immediately you've spoiled their little game)

Johnny Truant
Jul 22, 2008




Motronic posted:

What do you mean by "reviews like this"? What they said was a universal truth about the lending industry. Even if you have found a top rated broker somebody else in the process of underwriting is going to screw up and cause problems during the process. It's literally unavoidable other than by random chance.

The important thing is to KNOW that, so you can modify your expectations and behavior accordingly. Do not think it will go well, do allow for extra time in the days leading up to closing, do keep all documents easily accessible including and especially the ones you've already submitted so you can submit them again at a moment's notice when you're asked for it for the third goddamn time. (some of which I believe is a stalling tactic so if you can turn the request around immediately you've spoiled their little game)

Whatever reviews DaveSauce was mentioning in his earlier post, I'm just not sure where those come from/what they were referencing.

Trust me, I'm hammering it into my dumb brain that everything is going to take 69 times as long as anticipated and will be awful; just trying to get a grasp on some things that can possibly (but won't) help out during the craziness :kingsley: My partner and I are starting to discuss a bit more about purchasing and we've discussed getting a shorter rental lease so we can buy wherever we end up, sooner rather than later, and I was like "yeah but closing can take months sometimes, so maybe we should just suck it up and get a one year lease" and she was like "wait months to close? what?" and I'm like :ohdear:

We've got a webinar to go to tonight specifically about purchasing as a new resident, so hopefully that'll clear up some of the "what the gently caress" that I'm having regarding a physician's loan.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Closing taking months has less to do about financing than it does with a lot of other factors. The nastiest of which is usually and estate sale, followed by a house that is still owner-occupied, they're looking for another house and can't afford to close without the equity from the one you just bought.

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.

Johnny Truant posted:

Whatever reviews DaveSauce was mentioning in his earlier post, I'm just not sure where those come from/what they were referencing.

If it's some local small-time lender, just google for it. Yelp, Zillow, Google, all will have reviews. If you got the lender from an aggregator/service (e.g. bankrate.com), then the reviews should be included on the site you got them from.

That won't tell you a TON of information, but it should be enough to weed out any sketchy ones.

Lenders are a dime a dozen, if you can't find a good reason to use one then move on to the next one. Likewise, if you can't find a good reason NOT to use one, then add it to a list of potential lenders. Have 3-5 ready to contact once you go under contract, then once you're under contract start filling out applications and see how things go. Anyone who makes the application process difficult should be tossed out right away (for example, you shouldn't have to pay anyone anything up front), then whoever remains will send out numbers. Take the best and ask the others to beat it, and do that until you have an offer you're happy with.

At that point, the only limit is how much time you're willing to spend on it, and the risk that tomorrow rates will go up.

Queen Victorian
Feb 21, 2018

I am grateful that our seller had long since vacated the house and moved out of the state and that we never met or talked to her. Helped that the listing agent was a super pleasant guy.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

DaveSauce posted:

If it's some local small-time lender, just google for it. Yelp, Zillow, Google, all will have reviews. If you got the lender from an aggregator/service (e.g. bankrate.com), then the reviews should be included on the site you got them from.

That won't tell you a TON of information, but it should be enough to weed out any sketchy ones.

Lenders are a dime a dozen, if you can't find a good reason to use one then move on to the next one. Likewise, if you can't find a good reason NOT to use one, then add it to a list of potential lenders. Have 3-5 ready to contact once you go under contract, then once you're under contract start filling out applications and see how things go. Anyone who makes the application process difficult should be tossed out right away (for example, you shouldn't have to pay anyone anything up front), then whoever remains will send out numbers. Take the best and ask the others to beat it, and do that until you have an offer you're happy with.

At that point, the only limit is how much time you're willing to spend on it, and the risk that tomorrow rates will go up.
Sketchy is such a nebulous term. I've closed a couple notes, and the smoothest one by far was the dude who sounded like he was working out of his garage on a staticy burner cell phone.

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.

Dik Hz posted:

Sketchy is such a nebulous term. I've closed a couple notes, and the smoothest one by far was the dude who sounded like he was working out of his garage on a staticy burner cell phone.

Agreed, but if you google "Bob's discount mortgages" and you see only a handful of negative reviews, it's a pretty safe bet to stay away.

Realistically you're unlikely to find any actionable information that way, but until you start filling out applications there's not much else to go on.

ho fan
Oct 6, 2014

alnilam posted:

I was in a similar situation with brokerage account funds in a money market sweep account that gave slightly better interest than the credit union, and i found out that it complicates things more than it's worth. Since it's not insured, you're better off moving sufficient funds to close into a regular bank account during the time you're looking. It's not gonna kill you to miss out on a few months of weak rear end money market returns.

lampey posted:

For a conventional, fha, va, usda owner occupied mortgage with non terrible credit there is no reserve requirement in most cases. Some lenders require two months, still not a big issue.

Investments in a brokerage would count as long as they are vested. Retirement accounts are usually counted at 70% of the value to factor in the tax burden, and volatility. For investments they might use an average or the lowest value over two months.

For a down payment or other cash to close you need to actually pay cash. Liquidate your positions and wire the money to the title co. And you need to prove the funds are yours, not borrowed, not illegal proceeds, but past that it doesn't really matter

Thanks to both of you. Only a small percentage is allocated to a money market account in there, so I’m going to have to liquidate some stocks/bonds. This is all stuff that’s fully vested and non-retirement; I’ve had the account for years at this point, so if the lender wants me to throw a giant stack of paperwork at them I can do that.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

ho fan posted:

Thanks to both of you. Only a small percentage is allocated to a money market account in there, so I’m going to have to liquidate some stocks/bonds. This is all stuff that’s fully vested and non-retirement; I’ve had the account for years at this point, so if the lender wants me to throw a giant stack of paperwork at them I can do that.

If you can do it 90 days/3 monthly statements in advance you'll almost definitely have zero questions as to the source of funds. Three months/statements seemed to be the cutoff for every lender I've recently dealt with for owner-occupied resi.

alnilam
Nov 10, 2009

Motronic posted:

If you can do it 90 days/3 monthly statements in advance you'll almost definitely have zero questions as to the source of funds. Three months/statements seemed to be the cutoff for every lender I've recently dealt with for owner-occupied resi.

Yeah this. However even if it's sooner than 3 months, as long as you can provide a paper trail showing the funds in your brokerage and then in your bank, it should be a-okay by the lender, or that's what I was told. Talk it over with the lender to be sure.

More generally, in a financial wisdom sense, you should liquidate that stuff anyway and move it to an FDIC/NCUA insured account (i.e. bank account). Your time horizon is now "sometime in the next few months" so that money has no business being invested.

biceps crimes
Apr 12, 2008


Everyone's very dodgy and indirect about closing costs, even when I try nailing them down. Redfin mortgage seems to have the lowest fees, with Ally next, but this whole process is opaque and I feel like I'm being set up to be milked for cash

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.

gay_crimes posted:

Everyone's very dodgy and indirect about closing costs, even when I try nailing them down. Redfin mortgage seems to have the lowest fees, with Ally next, but this whole process is opaque and I feel like I'm being set up to be milked for cash

What exactly are they being dodgy about? There's a lot that goes in to "closing costs" that they won't be able to say until there's an application going, but they should at least be able to tell you the fees associated with the loan (origination fee, points, appraisal fee, rate lock fee).

That said lenders hate giving out solid numbers without an application. They know you're window shopping, so they don't want to do any legwork to generate real numbers. Once you have an application with them, you can nail them down to something real. That's when you start pitting them against each other to make better offers. If you have a Loan Estimate from another lender, that's a concrete thing they can compete against.

edit: generally their advertised closing costs are what you should be shopping against. Those are the costs they charge for the loan. The other costs to close are things that are associated with the property itself, so those should be the same for each lender. I think they sometimes like to include title insurance and any attorney fees in their costs, but that's something you can shop for.

DaveSauce fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Feb 18, 2021

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Inner Light
Jan 2, 2020



And a Loan Estimate from what I understand is typically what you do once under contract on a property. i.e. that is the proper time to rate/cost shop.

I decided buying a 1/1 in a dense downtown area is probably too risky for my risk profile because covid is a thing. If covid never happened, I may have done it. But there is a very real and widely foreseen possibility of WFH becoming more widespread permanently, which would lessen the appeal and value of a building close to offices, both for buyers or tenants if I rented out.

Back to hunting for a 2/2 or 2/1 which is affordable.

Inner Light fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Feb 18, 2021

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