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Alchenar posted:Hollywood really needs to make a film about the Nazi underground slave-labour cruise missile factory, but despite being completely real I fear people would reject it as obviously made up. You probably already know this and it's just a typo, but the V2s were definitely ballistic missiles, not cruise missiles. All the first objects sent into space by humans were explosive rockets made in underground factories under horrific slave labor conditions. Nothing about the NDSAP economic stuff or bizarre need for living space makes any sense until you realize it was all bullshit and they just wanted millions of people to convert into slaves to truly kick off industrial scale slavery.
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Feb 16, 2021 21:52
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Pryor on Fire posted:You probably already know this and it's just a typo, but the V2s were definitely ballistic missiles, not cruise missiles. V1s also existed though.
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Feb 16, 2021 22:26
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feedmegin posted:V1s also existed though.
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Feb 16, 2021 22:45
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Nessus posted:Would the V1 have qualified as a cruise missile as we understand them? I thought it was essentially a highly specialized aircraft but you could have, in theory, put a guy with a joystick in front. Wikipedia claims it is fwiw 
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Feb 16, 2021 22:53
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Nessus posted:Would the V1 have qualified as a cruise missile as we understand them? I thought it was essentially a highly specialized aircraft but you could have, in theory, put a guy with a joystick in front. A TLAM is essentially a highly specialized plane (turbofan engine, etc) and is only a bit lighter than a V1
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Feb 16, 2021 22:58
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Nessus posted:I thought it was essentially a highly specialized aircraft but you could have, in theory, put a guy with a joystick in front. lol at "in theory," these are Nazis we're talking about. The Fieseler Fi.103R Reichenberg: 
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Feb 16, 2021 23:05
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Nessus posted:Would the V1 have qualified as a cruise missile as we understand them? I thought it was essentially a highly specialized aircraft but you could have, in theory, put a guy with a joystick in front. Cruise missiles are essentially specialized aircraft that can only do kamikaze attacks. An engine, wings, some kind of guidance, and a cargo of explosives.
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Feb 16, 2021 23:08
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I've learned something here today and for that I will never forgive any of you. I suppose you can do a pretty clear contrast with a ballistic weapon though, huh.
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Feb 16, 2021 23:20
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Cessna posted:lol at "in theory," these are Nazis we're talking about. goofy ohka
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Feb 16, 2021 23:23
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:goofy ohka It's not a suicide weapon, the pilot will jump out and not be sucked into the engine, right? Right?
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Feb 16, 2021 23:39
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Cessna posted:lol at "in theory," these are Nazis we're talking about. 
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Feb 16, 2021 23:41
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Arquinsiel posted:This is different because he is not at the front For that we have the HS-132:  
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Feb 16, 2021 23:46
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Chamale posted:Cruise missiles are essentially specialized aircraft that can only do kamikaze attacks. An engine, wings, some kind of guidance, and a cargo of explosives. But is a cruise missile a drone
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Feb 17, 2021 00:31
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Cessna posted:lol at "in theory," these are Nazis we're talking about. Anyone remember the interceptor that was supposed to take off vertically via rocket, do a single attack pass on a bomber wave then you jump out because theres no way to land and you're already out of fuel? (the engine got a seperate parachute. The rest of the plane just crashed)
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Feb 17, 2021 00:36
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The Lone Badger posted:Anyone remember the interceptor that was supposed to take off vertically via rocket, do a single attack pass on a bomber wave then you jump out because theres no way to land and you're already out of fuel? Ba-349 "Natter." 
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Feb 17, 2021 00:38
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That one at least made a lot of sense as a volksturm weapon--no need to learn how to take off or land, they would theoretically already be pointed on the intercept at launch, just aim, shoot, bail out. perennial reminder that the Nazis also did just straight-up conduct, er, 'traditional' kamikaze operations in any case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonidas_Squadron
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Feb 17, 2021 00:49
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All the late Nazi fighters make sense - made of wood bc that's all you have, rocket-powered bc you need to get up to reach those Viermotorige, can't fight off all their escorts or armor the wooden plane against the defensive armament so one fast pass it is, which then informs your armament choice etc etc, it's just that with all these characteristics combined you're not gonna get anything resembling a reasonable aircraft, because you are not in a reasonable situation.
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Feb 17, 2021 01:43
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wiegieman posted:There's literally no end to it, god drat. Just one horrible loving atrocity after another. From what I've read, when it comes to Nazis and slave factories, the Nazis always had two goals. The first was to kill lots of untermenchen, and the second was to use untermenchen slave labor, and while they may or may not succeeded with the second, they always succeeded with the first. I saw Schindler's List for the first time last year, and I thought they did a good job with that SS commander in portraying what an actual SS dude would have as motives. His main job as he sees it is to kill all the untermenchen, and the use of their labor is just a lark for awhile, and no matter how many he murders, he can't get out from under this feeling that the job is still nowhere near done...
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Feb 17, 2021 01:56
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Cessna posted:Ba-349 "Natter." Does anyone else get a really dark vibe from this aircraft? This has always struck me as this frightening, ugly slapped-together monstrosity that treats humans like bullets. Just shooting them up at the sky and after they finish their attack run gently caress them, their life is forfeit. There's no overstating how evil the Nazis were, but most of their stuff is more or less comparable to other powers stuff. This plane looks like it was designed by genocidal monsters trying to kill as many people as they could on their way out. I guess it isn't milhist really, but this particular contraption has always made me feel sad and kinda sick inside. To me this is about as depressing as you can get without talking about gas chambers or killing fields. Even nuclear armageddon seems more lighthearted although that makes no sense.
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Feb 17, 2021 05:24
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It looks like something I'd get into at the grocery store and ride for thirty seconds for a quarter.
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Feb 17, 2021 05:29
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Uncle Enzo posted:Does anyone else get a really dark vibe from this aircraft? This has always struck me as this frightening, ugly slapped-together monstrosity that treats humans like bullets. Just shooting them up at the sky and after they finish their attack run gently caress them, their life is forfeit. I think I see what you mean, but I feel like what you're picking up on is that this is an extremely stripped-down, minimalistic war machine. That's more down to the limitations they were operating under (being unable to afford pleasantries) and the fact that it's a rocket plane (which doesn't need lifting surfaces, just control surfaces, thus the tiny wings) than it is to any particular evil on the part of the designers, I think. I feel like I'd get a similar grim brutality from pretty much any cheap-but-lethal machine, anyway. EDIT: Or maybe I'm just trying to rationalize things because I used this plane in the design for one of the bosses for my game. On an unrelated note, I'd never before noticed that they just slapped some sights on the exterior of the fuselage. TooMuchAbstraction fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Feb 17, 2021 |
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Feb 17, 2021 05:33
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As someone pointed out upthread, all the design choices make sense in the circumstances. The issue us that the correct choice in those circumstances is to surrender, which was not a question being posed to the aircraft designers, so they designed that thing instead.TooMuchAbstraction posted:On an unrelated note, I'd never before noticed that they just slapped some sights on the exterior of the fuselage. Unguided rocket pods like that have horrific accuracy and the pilots have very little idea how to aim anyway, better sights wouldn't change anything. The Lone Badger fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Feb 17, 2021 |
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Feb 17, 2021 06:00
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Horrifyingly, the Schwarzgerat from Gravity's Rainbow is starting to seem much more reasonable...
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Feb 17, 2021 06:20
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Uncle Enzo posted:Does anyone else get a really dark vibe from this aircraft? This has always struck me as this frightening, ugly slapped-together monstrosity that treats humans like bullets. Just shooting them up at the sky and after they finish their attack run gently caress them, their life is forfeit.
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Feb 17, 2021 06:24
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I think the pilots were going to be all-but-children as well, because they were out of adults.
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Feb 17, 2021 06:46
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I think I see what you mean, but I feel like what you're picking up on is that this is an extremely stripped-down, minimalistic war machine. That's more down to the limitations they were operating under (being unable to afford pleasantries) and the fact that it's a rocket plane (which doesn't need lifting surfaces, just control surfaces, thus the tiny wings) than it is to any particular evil on the part of the designers, I think. I feel like I'd get a similar grim brutality from pretty much any cheap-but-lethal machine, anyway. It's awful when you isolate the concept but sadly it yet another note in the horrifying crimes against humanity concerto that is the 2nd World War.
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Feb 17, 2021 07:15
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We can wrack our brains coming up with all sorts of smarter or more effective things the nazis could have done in the closing years of the war, but at the end of the day they would never do them because being crazy paranoid psycho idiots is what got them into that mess in the first place.
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Feb 17, 2021 07:23
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wiegieman posted:We can wrack our brains coming up with all sorts of smarter or more effective things the nazis could have done in the closing years of the war, Surrender. By the time you've got to 1945 that's the only smart move left. Well that or flee to Argentina.
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Feb 17, 2021 07:26
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wiegieman posted:We can wrack our brains coming up with all sorts of smarter or more effective things the nazis could have done in the closing years of the war, but at the end of the day they would never do them because being crazy paranoid psycho idiots is what got them into that mess in the first place. It feels good to call our enemies idiots but never forget how many extremely intelligent and rational people were roped into the Nazi project as well.
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Feb 17, 2021 07:30
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I do pick up on what Uncle Enzo is talking about; there's an immediately tangible eerie desperation in the perfunctoriness of the cockpit framing and the simplicity of the geometry World War I tanks give me the same vibe, tbh—did anyone else watch that three-part BBC series that was on Netflix that had one standout episode set almost entirely inside one? It really captured how utterly little compromise was made for human bodies to fit and function inside it; which in turn speaks to the expectation about what role exactly those people played in the scheme of things. Ned Kelly's armor, also 
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Feb 17, 2021 08:21
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The Lone Badger posted:Surrender. They knew they were hosed, but they also knew what would happen to them after they surrendered. They decided to keep postponing their date with the hangman as much as possible, no matter how much their soldiers and civilians had to bleed.
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Feb 17, 2021 08:53
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If I was in the Wehrmacht I would've been too busy setting a landspeed record towards the allied lines to care.
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Feb 17, 2021 08:56
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Gaius Marius posted:If I was in the Wehrmacht I would've been too busy setting a landspeed record towards the allied lines to care. Wouldn't have mattered much if you'd lived in the Soviet occupation zone.
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Feb 17, 2021 09:55
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I will now take a brief moment to draw your attention to the fact that early APC concepts were loltastic 
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Feb 17, 2021 12:49
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Doesn't seem that different from the other open-topped vehicles of the era, like German or American half-tracks, or the Kangaroo turretless tanks Edit: The Kangaroos didn't even have seats, just eight dudes awkwardly milling around in an empty turret well and trying not to stand on the drive shaft GotLag fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Feb 17, 2021 |
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Feb 17, 2021 13:06
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I think I see what you mean, but I feel like what you're picking up on is that this is an extremely stripped-down, minimalistic war machine. That's more down to the limitations they were operating under (being unable to afford pleasantries) and the fact that it's a rocket plane (which doesn't need lifting surfaces, just control surfaces, thus the tiny wings) than it is to any particular evil on the part of the designers, I think. I feel like I'd get a similar grim brutality from pretty much any cheap-but-lethal machine, anyway. In the very bad days in 41, lot of planes went right to the front with fixed sights because reflector sights weren't available and the planes were needed at the front Right Now. Same happened with France in the bad days of '40. A fixed sight is not very good but it's better than not putting the plane in the air. I don't think the Natter is all that more grim than say, the British Home Guard pike.
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Feb 17, 2021 14:07
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The Home Guard pikes were a result of a rhetorical point taken literally. Then they had them, so may as well take a few photos for the laugh.
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Feb 17, 2021 14:13
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Nessus posted:Would the V1 have qualified as a cruise missile as we understand them? I thought it was essentially a highly specialized aircraft but you could have, in theory, put a guy with a joystick in front. You could also strap a guy with joystick in front of a modern cruise missile and it would work out equally well, I'm sure. So that's not a good argument.
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Feb 17, 2021 14:13
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Having a fixed sight isn't a bad idea as a backup if the reflector sight breaks for whatever reason.
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Feb 17, 2021 14:41
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GotLag posted:Edit: The Kangaroos didn't even have seats, just eight dudes awkwardly milling around in an empty turret well and trying not to stand on the drive shaft Now now, some of the men squatted or sat on their packs.
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Feb 17, 2021 14:41
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