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is motorcycling awesome
yes
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right arm
Oct 30, 2011

I love knipex tools, but real pros use vise grips and just clamp them on the end of the cable

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captainOrbital
Jan 23, 2003

Wrathchild!
💢🧒

Glass of Milk posted:

Thinking of clutch levers bending, I highly suggest bringing a pair of these things:

https://www.amazon.com/KNIPEX-86-03-150-Pliers/dp/B005EXOJZK

They're small enough that they can be stored in your seat storage or whatever and they kick rear end

aww

Coydog
Mar 5, 2007



Fallen Rib
I stopped to help a guy on an ancient bike who was using one of those clamp things to bodge fix a snapped cable. Not sure how it would help even if you were just clipping it on the end of a broken lever since clutches require so much force to disengage.

Or, you could plan ahead and

Coydog posted:

Buy (OEM not bling aftermarket) spares of all your levers and shifter now and put them in a closet. You'll be happier to have them the next time this happens, and they are cheap.

Coydog posted:

To that end, keep a spare clutch lever in your toolkit under the seat or whatever.

( I also run a backup clutch cable on my bikes for this reason)

All of this is cheaper and less painful than a tow or an emergency repair at a small shop in the middle of nowhere.

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester
Oct 3, 2000

Slavvy posted:

I broadly agree with you but you'll find the bolded part is about 90% of bike owners; from a public safety point of view don't buy them you'll crash and die. From a people reading this thread point of view take a punt and check carefully and ask if you aren't sure and you'll probably end up with working levers.
Seconding Slavvy on the Chinese levers here. If you know how to check that they're working right they're generally fine. I've had several sets of them on my ST2 for years now. But I did have to swap pivoting parts in them when installing at least once because something didn't really work right. You need to be able to tell whether they're working correctly or not, how much play moving things should have where etc.

MomJeans420
Mar 19, 2007



Twist of the Wrist II is also available on youtube. It doesn't look dated at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhOomvv6oNI

Beve Stuscemi
Jun 6, 2001




Really wish someone would port twist of the wrist 2 to pc. Sucks that it’s stuck on the Sega saturn

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
I can’t make myself look at that strip goatee for extended periods of time.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

It's hard to trust a guy about riding when he thinks the mothership is gonna teleport him any day now.

Phy
Jun 27, 2008



Fun Shoe

Slavvy posted:

It's hard to trust a guy about riding when he thinks the mothership is gonna teleport him any day now.

The Keith Code is you push UUDDLRLRBA Start on the E-Meter and it vaporizes the body thetans that make you think you've got no lean left and it's time to straighten up and hit the brakes

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Phy posted:

The Keith Code is you push UUDDLRLRBA Start on the E-Meter and it vaporizes the body thetans that make you think you've got no lean left and it's time to straighten up and hit the brakes

I wonder if Tom Cruise has had personal riding instruction from Keith for his various bike stunts in films.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


T Zero posted:

Thanks for the reading list. It's still winter here, so books are the main way I'm going to get any semblance of skill improvement.

I'm kinda bored of all the moto-vloggers and skill videos on YouTube, which I find do an ok job of showing, but not explaining what's actually going on.

This channel is kinda interesting for a little while and his videos that commentate about handling emergency situations (like your buddy crashing) are also pretty cool

https://www.youtube.com/user/Stubbs928

T Zero
Sep 26, 2005
When the enemy is in range, so are you

MomJeans420 posted:

Twist of the Wrist II is also available on youtube. It doesn't look dated at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhOomvv6oNI

Ah. Thanks for the link. Dude has some real David Carradine vibes. Those demos they do on the motorcycle with two sets of handlebars was pretty interesting.

Russian Bear posted:


This channel is kinda interesting for a little while and his videos that commentate about handling emergency situations (like your buddy crashing) are also pretty cool

https://www.youtube.com/user/Stubbs928

Yep. I've been using his low-speed maneuvering drill tutorials.

HenryJLittlefinger
Jan 31, 2010

stomp clap


T Zero posted:

Those demos they do on the motorcycle with two sets of handlebars was pretty interesting.


That bike is fodder for some knock down drag out arguments by glorious idiots all over the Internet who completely misunderstand it.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。
Bike update: put about 200 miles on it this weekend since we've had unreasonably warm weather (24C today). I asked the shop to find the noise and even provided videos and their mechanics refused to wallet inspect me, so whatevs. Put new tires on it and got an oil change + chain clean. Watching Twist of the Wrist 2 a few weeks ago gave me some tangible goals when going out, so thanks for linking that.

Riding is good and fun.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
One fun thing about my 250 is that when there's a strong crossbreeze it feels like it's going to fly away like a leaf

T-Shaped
Jan 16, 2006

The weapons you pick up along the way help. At least they help you do less talking.
I'm having trouble deciding on a first bike - since I'm running into the whole "family member has an old one" deal.
Originally I was looking at maxi-scooters (which I still like and the NM4 gives me trashbrain), but eventually came to looking at the Suzuki TU250/older Honda CBs.

Family member is getting up there in years, has a 2004 Yamaha VStar 1100 with a fresh tune/rebuild, optioned out with saddlebags/windscreen/pillion backrest that he never picked up and wants to be out of it at cost - probably about $2k all-in-all after I ship to my end of the world.

Is it worth it to take the VStar 1100 as a first bike as a "known good"? Or should I just take the traditional starter bike (or maxi-scooter) path?

As a side note, bigger guy - 6'3" and about 280.

Coydog
Mar 5, 2007



Fallen Rib
Not sure if you are making a joke but a maxi scoot isn't a good "first bike" in any stretch of the imagination. Not that I don't love maxis and the NM4 in particular. Don't get a boat anchor cruiser as your first bike either, as it will be a nightmare to learn on.

With your build look at standard ergo 650s like the SV650/Gladius.

T-Shaped
Jan 16, 2006

The weapons you pick up along the way help. At least they help you do less talking.

Coydog posted:

Not sure if you are making a joke but a maxi scoot isn't a good "first bike" in any stretch of the imagination. Not that I don't love maxis and the NM4 in particular. Don't get a boat anchor cruiser as your first bike either, as it will be a nightmare to learn on.

With your build look at standard ergo 650s like the SV650/Gladius.

Had a feeling about the VStar being a boat anchor, since every place I've read where someone started on a VStar was a big "Well, I guess if you have to..."

Reason maxis came up on my end was for a pillion - I initially started learning on a 50cc scooter and would throw my wife on behind and that was definitely a tight fit and watching a digital gauge crawl to 20MPH.

Coydog
Mar 5, 2007



Fallen Rib
Don't plan on taking a pillion for at least a year. It really throws off the weight and handling in ways you won't be prepared for. Start on a standard with middle of the road HP and go from there. Also the VSTAR is loving uncomfortable and sucks to ride, even for an experienced person. I had one on loan last year to ride whenever I wanted. Was novel the first ride, but after the third time I never touched it again.

It's a great bike, just not my thing I guess.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Coydog posted:

Don't plan on taking a pillion for at least a year. It really throws off the weight and handling in ways you won't be prepared for. Start on a standard with middle of the road HP and go from there. Also the VSTAR is loving uncomfortable and sucks to ride, even for an experienced person. I had one on loan last year to ride whenever I wanted. Was novel the first ride, but after the third time I never touched it again.

It's a great bike, just not my thing I guess.

It isn't just you, they are a poo poo bike.

Just get an SV or something.

A maxi scooter is a great and fun and practical vehicle that will teach you nothing useful about riding, and will one day remind you very suddenly and forcefully that it's a big heavy bike on really small tyres.

T-Shaped
Jan 16, 2006

The weapons you pick up along the way help. At least they help you do less talking.

Slavvy posted:

It isn't just you, they are a poo poo bike.

Just get an SV or something.

A maxi scooter is a great and fun and practical vehicle that will teach you nothing useful about riding, and will one day remind you very suddenly and forcefully that it's a big heavy bike on really small tyres.

Gotcha.

Like the look of the Gladius, but one more idiot brain question: Is there anything along those lines with the older styling like the TU250/older Honda CB, but with the slightly bigger displacement? Or should I just aim my crosshair at the SV650/SFV650 and call it a day?

Coydog
Mar 5, 2007



Fallen Rib
Triumph bonnie, but it's probably pretty hefty of a bike.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

T-Shaped posted:

Gotcha.

Like the look of the Gladius, but one more idiot brain question: Is there anything along those lines with the older styling like the TU250/older Honda CB, but with the slightly bigger displacement? Or should I just aim my crosshair at the SV650/SFV650 and call it a day?

W800/650, SR400, GB400, CB400F off the top of my head.

Bonneville as mentioned, as well as sportster 883 or a multitude of 600-800cc metric cruisers, they are suitably slow and friendly but are all much bigger heavier bikes that will make learning a lot slower and somewhat more perilous.

LimaBiker
Dec 9, 2020




For an *average* person, SV's are not that great of a first bike, because they are properly fast (4 second 0-100km/h). But your weight does make a significant difference, so i'd say it should be fine. In fact, i'd avoid the 250cc class. Something between 45 and 70hp would probably be the sweet spot for you.

The older SV's are a decent size. The newest one is quite small. For me it felt really tiny and i'm an average 180cm 75kg guy. Great fun, though!

With a pillion, you're gonna be right at the maximum allowed load the 1999 SV (no idea how much the newer ones can handle) is allowed to carry. I did load it to its absolute maximum (possibly slightly over) by taking a guy your size on the back. Fun to do once or twice, can't recommend for actual comfortable riding. It cornered fine, but i had to squeeze the living hell out of the brakes and bottomed out on speed humps a few times.

Perhaps take a look at all those scrambler-y bikes. If you feel particularly masochistic, check out the royal enfield, or an ural solo.

LimaBiker fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Mar 1, 2021

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Suffice it to say that 'carrying passengers' is not something anyone learning should even be thinking about at all for like the first year. Learner bikes are designed with this in mind so they tend to cope really badly with passengers.

Ultimately the generic advice that works for everyone willing to listen is: get the smallest, slowest bike that will accommodate your size and traffic situation. Your first bike is not your last bike, condition matters a lot more than model, passengers are a problem for future you and not something you'll be doing any time soon.

I also think 70hp is far, far too much for any learner, I don't give a poo poo how big you are. It's a lot less threatening when there's 240kg of cruiser to pull, but then you have the other problem of as bike that's hard to manage at low speed because of it's weight and awkwardness, and harder to learn how to actually ride on because of it's shape and general configuration.

If you're in australia a LAMS 650 segment bike is a good compromise.

Slavvy fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Mar 1, 2021

Steakandchips
Apr 30, 2009

100% agreed with Slavvy on this.

Get a 125CC or 250CC to learn on for a year, after that get something bigger like an SV650.

And don't take a pillion when you're still learning to ride, that's just asking for trouble.

Woolwich Bagnet
Apr 27, 2003



I think any of the standard learner bikes would be fine. Something in the 30-45 hp range will be more than enough to get you in to trouble if you have no self restraint. They will also be around half the weigh that that vstar would be. I started on a ninja 400 and it was a fine learner bike. Light enough that you won't be punished with crushing weight if you make a mistake. Even coming up on 3 years of riding I still don't feel like I'd be comfortable with someone riding pillion so I've never done it. Maybe some day.

Carth Dookie
Jan 28, 2013

Often restraint doesn't even enter into it: New rider going over a pothole causing a significant throttle increase. On a small bike that's a significant increase in noise and relatively slight increase in speed. A nice warning/learning experience about posture and grip. On a moderate bike that's brown pants and maybe a big ol' accident.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Also bigger bikes are made for bigger tyres and bigger speed so they have less feel and less effective suspension at slower speeds. You can't just ride a really fast bike slowly - ok you can but it will suck rear end and not load the tyres at all. Performance is a holistic thing that affects the whole bike (power dictates size and weight, which dictates tyre size and suspension tuning and jommetry), but bikes as tools are very specialized (a bike built for fast, wide, smooth race track corners will suck rear end on tight bumpy turns). Low vs high speed grip and usability are pretty much diametrically opposed, so the faster the bike is the greater the compromise and guess what? You compromise by sacrificing low speed goodness for high speed. A 30hp bike simply doesn't have this problem, it has a much narrower operating range so less compromise is necessary and the bike can excel at what it's designed for.

Then on top of this you have the skinny tyre principle - the fatter the tyre, the more lean angle you need for a given corner speed. So on a big heavy bike you're having to both attain a higher lean angle than on a small bike, AND you have to reach that lean angle faster.

Enter a corner a mite too fast on a small skinny bike? No problem just add slightly more lean and you'll make it. Do the same thing on a big fat bike and you have to add substantially more lean angle in less time, plus you have less outright grip because the bike is heavier too, plus you can't really tell what the tyres are doing cause you're too hopeless to even know what that feels like let alone go fast enough to create enough load to actually get some feedback.

So basically the bigger the bike the more difficult it is to understand it's behavior and the further positive feedback is out of your reach, which retards learning and makes you crash more.

Slavvy fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Mar 2, 2021

Woolwich Bagnet
Apr 27, 2003



Carth Dookie posted:

Often restraint doesn't even enter into it: New rider going over a pothole causing a significant throttle increase. On a small bike that's a significant increase in noise and relatively slight increase in speed. A nice warning/learning experience about posture and grip. On a moderate bike that's brown pants and maybe a big ol' accident.

Oh yeah, I just meant that just because they have 'low' hp doesn't mean you can't get in trouble in a hurry if you try.

LimaBiker
Dec 9, 2020




Carth Dookie posted:

Often restraint doesn't even enter into it: New rider going over a pothole causing a significant throttle increase. On a small bike that's a significant increase in noise and relatively slight increase in speed. A nice warning/learning experience about posture and grip. On a moderate bike that's brown pants and maybe a big ol' accident.

Regarding this - this is even more apparent when riding older bikes. New throttle by wire stuff tends to smooth out such sudden inputs - at least in my limited experience with modern bikes and cars. The old stuff does not have anything to prevent rider accidents.
Old bikes are fun, but not always the best choice for a learner.

MomJeans420
Mar 19, 2007



Carth Dookie posted:

Often restraint doesn't even enter into it: New rider going over a pothole causing a significant throttle increase. On a small bike that's a significant increase in noise and relatively slight increase in speed. A nice warning/learning experience about posture and grip. On a moderate bike that's brown pants and maybe a big ol' accident.

That was my first wheelie as I was learning how to ride, and it was very surprising / not cool

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
On my 250 I could whiskey throttle from red and the bike would accelerate calmly forward, maybe jerking me a bit but mostly not even noticeably. The N650 isn't a supersport but it has a decent amount of torque down low and isn't having any of that. Every now and then I get a little aggressive with the throttle and have an "oh yeah that's right" moment.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Martytoof posted:

On my 250 I could whiskey throttle from red and the bike would accelerate calmly forward, maybe jerking me a bit but mostly not even noticeably. The N650 isn't a supersport but it has a decent amount of torque down low and isn't having any of that. Every now and then I get a little aggressive with the throttle and have an "oh yeah that's right" moment.

If you rode a supersport you'd be amazed at how gutless and tame it is just riding around normally.

Like, if we had a race and I was on a zx6 with a 10,000rpm rev limiter, your er6 would utterly dominate. Basically any 600SS is a 250 in the bottom 2/3rd's of the range, you can literally just whack it wide open and almost nothing will happen. This is kind of what makes them so dangerous for learners, because on a 650 the torque is RIGHT THERE from the bottom and it teaches you to respect the throttle within minutes, whereas you could ride a 600SS for years and never know how powerful it is (I have met several tragic individuals like this). The problem is when you go searching for the power, you find that the only non-motorway method of accessing it is to come screaming into a corner super fast and try to keep the engine on the boil. So exactly like a 250 only with a bunch more weight and 5x the power. Hence morons who can't ride often concluding that they are slow and good for learning.

Slavvy fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Mar 3, 2021

SEKCobra
Feb 28, 2011

Hi
:saddowns: Don't look at my site :saddowns:
I tried to do a powerwheelie with my CB500X in a private parking lot once and all I achieved was learning that I can't do powerwheelies. Since I don't actually want to wheelie that was good enough for me.

Coydog
Mar 5, 2007



Fallen Rib
I power wheelied a CB500x somewhere in Italy or Switzerland (maybe Germany?) past two very pretty lady cops. I'm surprised they didn't throw me in jail or take me to dinner. Anyway that's my CB500x wheelie story.

Coydog fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Mar 3, 2021

captainOrbital
Jan 23, 2003

Wrathchild!
💢🧒

Slavvy posted:

If you rode a supersport you'd be amazed at how gutless and tame it is just riding around normally.

This is why Yamaha sucks: after doing a demo ride once, I got back on my EX250 and was sad at how the throttle seemed to do nothing. But my memories from demo rides with HD, Indian, Aprilia, Ducati, 0, and KTM were more about how much fun the bikes were when you had a minute to yourself to whack open the throttle, slalom around manholes, or catch up to your fellow riders on the straights or expressways. Yamaha demo rides were always so regimented and policed that you get less of a feeling of fun from the bikes, and more of a sense of foreboding related to how far back you might have to walk if you commit the tiniest infraction. Bikes are fun. If they weren't, we wouldn't put up with all of the irritations.

Get your poo poo together, Yamaha.

LimaBiker
Dec 9, 2020




KTM/Husky has nice test ride events. You sign a waiver, then you're given the bike with the note 'Hey, sooo this little tea garden along road X doesn't like it when they get a lot of riders from the dealership past their doorstep, please avoid that road'.
And then you have an hour to fool around on them any way you want.

I braaped around on an industrial estate on an smcr and pulled what felt like the dankest woolies. No, an smcr is not a good beginners' bike. Yes i shat myself when i saw a cop.
Also got hopelessly lost on a duke (that 700ish CC one) and concluded that they are kinda crap for normal public roads, but probably really good on track. Too fast to ever be able to pin the throttle for more than 3 seconds, quite literally.

They actually do that throughout the whole of europe, the test ride bikes are all on Austrian plates, even though i live in the Netherlands.

Ducati sort of did the same, but also offered guided test rides.

So come to Yurp if you wanna test ride :)

LimaBiker fucked around with this message at 11:07 on Mar 6, 2021

Steakandchips
Apr 30, 2009

Indian and Harley both threw the keys at me and said basically that it'd be nice if I brought it back with some petrol in it.

Ducati refused to even allow a test ride.

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Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Does Honda do demo events?

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